Secrets of Scientology now on BBC1.

Open invitation: there are lots of books out there about Scientology written by L. Ron Hubbard. Read one and see what you think. I would recommend "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health". Great book.

If you have questions about the structure of he church and how it functions, I recommend you visit one and ask.

reply to post by dbloch7986


Agreed, I'm a graphic designer and network admin for a church offering envelope company. The Catholic Church is one of the biggest businesses in the world. You wouldn't believe the amount of money that Churches/Parishes receive via "donation". Some of the things I've had to put on envelopes pretty much say.. "What you do with your money, explains how you feel about God".. Not word for word, but they say essentially that. They send you an envelope and then guilt you into donating by saying, "Your donation is needed to cover the costs of this mailing service.. Please give generously". What? Don't send them freaking envelopes then..

Anyhow, ORGANIZED Religion is a scam and a venue for profit anymore. It doesn't matter what church or belief system you belong to.. Someone is getting paid. The funny thing is, you are paying someone else to interpret a text that is meant for the individual to find meaning in.. That is the equivalent to going out to a restaurant and paying for food that has been chewed up and regurgitated back onto your plate. You aren't receiving the object or idea the way it was intended to be received.. By YOU. Now if you can't read, Church may help you understand what the book says.. But you'd have to find your own meaning in it still. This may explain why illiteracy rates are highest in the Christian Religion..

reply to post by dbloch7986


It's not a donation if it's mandatory to receive the service and/or good. It's that simple. There's no jargon... at least on this side.

reply to post by CX


Cool man. I haven't said anything about it before because most people on ATS distrust any kind of organized religions. It makes arguing a moot point. But I figured since theres a thread about it, I might as well say something to give the other side of the story.

When people have personal problems they tend to look for someone or something to blame besides themselves, which is why I think there's more to the story.

Originally posted by dbloch7986
But I figured since theres a thread about it, I might as well say something to give the other side of the story.

I'm glad you did, kinda of makes the thread a bit one sided otherwise.

If we all had the same opinions, wouldn't the world be a boring place.

CX.

reply to post by ZiggyMojo


I understand how you feel.

If you think of it from a parishioner's point of view, if the church you're donating too actually helped you better your life, then why wouldn't you want to give the church a donation to help it stay alive and deliver the same help to others and continue to deliver it to you.

reply to post by SpacePunk


Yes but were not talking about the utility company asking you to donate to keep your water running. You can live without the service, so if you dont want it you don't have to get it.

reply to post by CX


I agree.

It would be a very boring life indeed.

reply to post by CX


Enjoyed watching this...........Was approached in 1986/7 in Poole (Dorset) with Scientologist regarding the book of Dianetics, told me I was the person they are looking for - Suppose it was bubbly and chatty sort of person back then lol.

Just goes to show how vunerable a teen can be to an adult.

P.S. No badness to people within Scientology.....we all have a faith or NOT!

Originally posted by dbloch7986
reply to post by SpacePunk

 

Yes but were not talking about the utility company asking you to donate to keep your water running. You can live without the service, so if you dont want it you don't have to get it.

No, we aren't talking about a utility company passing itself off as a religion requiring donations in order to get water or electricity.

Face it Scientology charges for it's services such as auditing. It's a purchase, not a donation.

reply to post by SpacePunk


Well then don't participate in it, I guess.

Don't know what else to tell you.

Participation in any religion is voluntary. No one is forcing you to give the church money. If you want auditing services from a church you'd have to exchange for them.

Alternatively, you can read "Dianetics" with a friend and you can go to a church and audit each other for only the cost of the book, or even do it at home if you want, although the church is better.

As a matter of fact you can coaudit with anyone as long as you buy the materials to learn how and the church will actually help you find someone to coaudit with. All you need to pay for are the books to learn how. Anyone can do it, no special requirements.

Some people choose to pay a professional auditor.

All I know of Scientology is from South Park which gave Alien stories
as a fundamental belief.
From my stand point any alien talk is a diversion started by Illuminati lies to
hide Tesla technology.
Thus they are pure Illuminati and not on anyone's side to unwrap the
further advancement of science.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


Check out clambake.org for more info.

Or they might be a longstanding black budget program...
A "proof of concept" for the tools used to make willing fools for the new world order (Scientologists are forbidden to read that site)

Link to page on mind control

Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by TeslaandLyne

 

Check out clambake.org for more info.

Thanks.
I think I'll trust the Alien connection as enough hogwash spent on them.
I believe Alien tales are false and thus building on errors I can't hold that pile of
information in any higher regard.

It amazes me as to how people keep joining this. After all, L Ron Hubbard said thatbthis religion was due to a bet. It is founded on an alien civilization. But who knows right?

Also my dentist had all these crap books for sale in the lobby. I complained they were offensive and was told I was no longer welcome there.

This is a shady operation..... Stay far far away!

reply to post by ArcAngel


I think it's the same psychology behind advance fee frauds. Those involved become vested in the fraud, and despite the increasing ridiculousness of the situation they hold onto the 'promise' as tight as they can because they refuse to believe they have been taken so easily.

Bare Faced Messiah Text.

L. Ron Hubbard was a common confidence man who started Scientology for the money. The Scientologist went to great lengths to keep this book out of print. It exposes who Hubbard really was.

The members of the Church are not aware of this. As you can see, whenever anything about them comes to light, they appear as if from the woodwork. You don't see other churches doing this at this level, just them. That should speak volumes about who and what their leaders are.

These Scientologists coming to threads like this are brainwashed and unaware of who and what Hubbard was and they think people are out to get them; when in fact it is them who are the victims. Of course the leaders who are pocketing the wealth and power over them know the truth.

Link to some of the order forms and what they charge. Scientology is very expensive and they target mentally ill rich folks for a reason.

The current (conservative) total cost for the whole bridge to OT9 readiness is estimated at $365,000 - $380,000.

Scientology is clearly an insane confidence game and why they have not been shut down and prosecuted under the RICO Act is beyond understanding.

Video's abound of insane members stalking and threatening people and their methods have always been intimidation.

Everyone should do yourselves a favor and read the Bare Faced Messiah in its entirety to gain an understanding of the true roots of this bizarre cult, which is just a cover for a tap into the wallets of rich people who are vulnerable due to mental illness.




In case the second video won't embed, this is a link and people should watch this. This is the method employed by Scientologist they use both to indoctrinate the weak minded and to threaten anyone who questions them.


Again don't know if these will embed right as they often don't when they have anything following the video number, so here is a link to the third one.

Another example of a Scientologist at work, utilizing the methods they are taught. It's a lot like I imagine interrogation techniques used by say the CIA to break peoples will.

There are many hours of tapes out there of Scientologists using their techniques on anyone who questions them. Just do some looking if your interested.

The whole thing is insidious beyond belief and it's clear they have friends in high places or the government would have shut them down long ago.

One of the big problems is once people are lured in and have paid tens if not hundreds of thousands for what amounts to brainwashing, they are doubly resistant to admit they were scammed. People should research this fully and you will find out the truth. I highly recommend everyone read the Bare Faced Messiah to understand the roots of this scam.

This copy of a court document and a Judges findings are very revealing and of interest.

Link to the document.

This is about the Church attempting to recover damning papers that could prove the whole hoax and how Scientology was really a scam to con people out of money devised by Hubbard.

Mods,
The rights are granted in the document since it is public information so I'm posting the whole document as I see no reason not to.

Copyright (C) 1994 Paul Breckenridge Jr.
Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes.

BRECKENRIDGE DECISION

CD - 24
16 October 1994

Copyright (C) 1994 Paul Breckenridge Jr.
Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes.

Superior Court of the State of California
for the County of Los Angeles

Church of Scientology of California, ) No. C 420153
)
Plaintiff, ) MEMORANDUM OF
) INTENDED DECISION
)
vs. )
)
Gerald Armstrong, )
)
)
Defendant )
______________________________ )
)
Mary Sue Hubbard, )
)
Intervenor )
______________________________ )


In this matter heretofore taken under submission, the Court announces its intended decision as follows:

As to the tort causes of action, plaintiff, and plaintiff in intervention are to take nothing, and the defendant is entitled to Judgment and costs.

As to the equitable actions, the court finds that neither plaintiff has clean hands, and that at least as of this time, are not entitled to the immediate return of any document or objects previously retained by the court clerk. All exhibits received in evidence or marked for identification, unless specifically ordered sealed (note 1), are matters of public record and shall be available for public inspection or use to the same extent that any exhibit would be available in any other lawsuit. In other words they are to be treated henceforth no differently than similar exhibits in other cases in Superior Court. Furthermore, the "inventory list and description," of materials turned over by Armstrong's attorneys to the court, shall not be considered or deemed to be confidential, private, or under seal.

All other documents or objects presently in the possession of the clerk (not marked herein as court exhibits) shall be retained by the clerk, subject to the same orders as are presently in effect as to sealing and inspection, until such time as trial court proceedings are concluded as to the severed cross complaint. For the purposes of this Judgment, conclusion will occur when any motion for a new trial has been denied, or the time within such a motion must be brought has expired without such motion being made. At that time, all documents neither received in evidence, nor marked for identification only, shall be released by the clerk to plaintiff's representatives. Notwithstanding this order, the parties may at any time by written stipulation files with the clerk obtain release of any or all unused materials.

Defendant and his counsel are free to speak or communicate upon any of Defendant Armstrong's recollections of his life as a Scientologist or the contents of any exhibit received in evidence or marked for identification and not specifically ordered sealed. As to all documents, and other materials held under seal by the clerk, counsel and defendant shall remain subject to the same injunctions as presently exist, at least until the conclusion of the proceedings in which defense counsel, or any of them, is of record, such counsel shall have the right to discuss exhibits under seal, or their contents, if such is reasonably necessary and incidental to the proper representation of his or her client.

Further, if any court of competent jurisdiction orders defendant or his attorney to testify concerning the fact of any such exhibit, document, object, or its contents, such testimony shall be given, and no violation of this order will occur. Likewise, defendant and his counsel may discuss the contents of any documents under seal or of any matters as to which this court has found to be privileged as between the parties hereto, with any duly constituted Governmental Law Enforcement Agency or submit any exhibits or declarations thereto concerning such document or materials, without violating any order of this court.

This court will retain jurisdiction to enforce, modify, alter, or terminate any injunction included within the Judgment.

Counsel for defendant is ordered to prepare, serve, and file a Judgment on the Complaint and Complaint in Intervention, and Statement of Decision if timely and properly requested, consistent with the court's intended decision.

DISCUSSION

The court has found the facts essentially as set forth in the defendant's trial brief, which as modified, is attached as an appendix to this memorandum. In addition the court finds that while working for L.R. Hubbard (hereinafter referred to as LRH), the defendant also had an informal employer-employee relationship with plaintiff Church, but had permission and authority from plaintiffs and LRH to provide Omar Garrison with every document or object that was made available to Mr. Garrison, and further, had permission from Omar Garrison to take and deliver to his attorneys the documents and materials which were subsequently delivered to them and thenceforth into the custody of the County Clerk.

Plaintiff Church has made out a prima facie case of conversion (as bailee of the materials), breach of fiduciary duty, and breach of confidence (as the former employer who provided confidential materials to its then employee for certain specific purposes, which the employee later used for other purposes to plaintiff's detriment). Plaintiff Mary Jane Hubbard has likewise made out a prima facie case of conversion and invasion of privacy (misuse by a person of private matters entrusted to him for certain specific purposes only).

While defendant has asserted various theories of defense, the basic thrust of his testimony is that he did what he did, because he believed that his life, physical and mental well being, as well as that of his wife were threatened because the organization was aware of what he knew about the life of LRH, the secret machinations and financial activities of the Church, and his dedication to the truth. He believed that the only way he could defend himself, physically as well as from harassing lawsuits, was to take from Omar Garrison those materials which would support and corroborate everything that he had been saying within the Church about LRH and the Church, or refute the allegations made against him in the April 22 Suppressive Person Declare. He believed that the only way he could be sure that the documents would remain secure for his future use was to send them to his attorneys, and that to protect himself, he had to go public so as to minimize the risk that LRH, the Church, or any of their agents would do him physical harm.

This conduct if reasonably believed by the defendant and engaged in by him in good faith, finds support as a defense to the plaintiff's charges in the Restatements of Agency, Torts, and case law.

Restatement of Agency, Second, provides:

"Section 395f: An agent is privileged to reveal information confidentially acquired by him in the course of his agency in the protection of a superior interest of himself or a third person."

"Section 418: An agent is privileged to protect interests of his own which are superior to those of the principal, even though he does so at the expense of the principal's interest or in disobedience to his orders."

Restatement of torts, Second, section 271:

"One is privileged to commit an act which would otherwise be a trespass to or a conversion of a chattel in the possession of another, for the purpose of defending himself or a third person against the other, under the same conditions which would afford a privilege to inflict harmful or offensive contact upon the other for the same purpose."

The Restatement of Torts, Second, section 652a, as well as case law, make it clear that not all invasions of privacy are lawful or tortious. It is only when the invasion is unreasonable that it becomes actionable. Hence, the trier of fact must engage in a balancing test, weighing the nature and extent of the invasion, as against the purported justification therefore to determine whether in a given case, the particular invasion was unreasonable.

In addition the defendant has asserted as defense the principal involved in the Case of Willig vs Gold, 75 Cal.App.2d, S09, S14, which holds that an agent has a right to disclose his principal's dishonest acts to the party prejudicially affected by them.

Plaintiff Church has asserted and obviously has certain rights arising out of the First Amendment. Thus, the court cannot, and has not inquired into or attempted to evaluate the merits, accuracy, or truthfulness of Scientology or any of its precepts as a religion. First Amendment rights, however, cannot be utilized by the Church or its members, as a sword to preclude the defendant, who the Church is suing, from defending himself. Therefore, the actual practices of the Church or its members, as it relates to the reasonableness of the defendant's conduct and his state of mind are relevant, admissible, and have been considered by the court.

As indicated by its factual findings, the court finds the testimony of Gerald and Jocelyn Armstrong, Laurel Sullivan, Nancy Dincalcis, Edward Walters, Omar Garrison, Kima Douglas, and Homer Schomer to be credible, extremely persuasive, and the defense privilege of justification established and corroborated by this evidence. Obviously there are some discrepancies or variations in recollections, but these are the normal problems which arise from lapse of time, or from different people viewing matters or events from different perspectives. In all critical and important matters, their testimony was precise, accurate, and rang true. The picture painted by these former dedicated Scientologists, all of whom were intimately involved with LRH, or Mary Jane Hubbard, or of the Scientology Organization, is on one hand pathetic, and on the other hand, outrageous. Each of these persons literally gave years of his or her respective life in support of a man, LRH, and his ideas. Each has manifested a waste and loss or frustration which is incapable of description. Each has broken with the movement for a variety of reasons, but at the same time, each is, still bound by the knowledge that the Church has in its possession his or her most inner thoughts and confessions, all recorded in "Pre-clear (P.C.) folders" or other security files of the organization, and that the Church or its minions is fully capable of intimidation or other physical or psychological abuse if it suits their ends. The record is replete with evidence of such abuse.

In 1970 a police agency of the French Government conducted an investigation into Scientology and concluded, "this sect, under the pretext of 'freeing humans' is nothing in reality but a vast enterprise to extract the maximum amount of money from its adepts by (use of) pseudo-scientific theories, by (use of) 'auditions' and 'stage settings' (lit. to 'create a theatrical scene') pushed to extremes ( a machine to detect lies, its own particular phraseology. ), to estrange adepts from their families and to exercise a kind of blackmail against persons who do not wish to continue with his sect. (Exhibit 500-HHHHH) >From the evidence presented to this court in 1984, at the very least, similar conclusions can be drawn. In addition to violating and abusing its own members civil-rights, the organization over the years with its "Fair Game" doctrine has harassed and abused those persons not in the Church whom it perceives as enemies. The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and the bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder LRH. The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background, and achievements. The writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egoism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile. At the same time it appears that he is charismatic and highly capable of motivating, organizing, controlling, manipulating, and inspiring his adherents. He has been referred to during this trial as a "genius," a "revered person," a man who was "viewed by his followers with awe." Obviously, he is and has been a very complex person, and that complexity is further reflected in his alter ego, the Church of Scientology. Notwithstanding protestations to the contrary, this court is satisfied that LRH runs the Church in all ways through the Sea Organization, his role of Commodore, and the Commodore's Messengers. (3 see exhibit K Flag Order 3729). He has, of course, chosen to go into "seclusion," but he maintains contact and control through the top messengers. Seclusion has its light and dark side too. It adds to his mystique, and yet shields him from accountability and subpoena or service of summons.

LRH's wife, Mary Sue Hubbard is also plaintiff herein. On the one hand she certainly appeared to be a pathetic individual. She was forced from her post as controller, convicted and imprisoned as a felon, and deserted by her husband. On the other hand her credibility leaves much to be desired. She struck the familiar pose of not seeing, hearing or knowing any evil. Yet she was the head of the Guardian Office for years and among other things, authored the infamous order "GO 121669" which directed culling of supposedly confidential P.C. files/folders for purposes of internal security. In her testimony she expressed the feeling that defendant by delivering the documents, writings, letters to his attorneys, subjected her to mental rape. The evidence is clear and the court finds that defendant and Omar Garrison had permission to utilize these documents for the purpose of Omar Garrison's proposed biography. The only other persons who were shown any of the documents were the defendant's attorneys, the Douglasses and Dincalcis, and apparently some document specifically affecting LRH's son "Nibs," were shown to "Nibs." The he Douglasses and Dincalcises were disaffected Scientologists who had a concern for their own safety and mental security, and were in much the same situation as the defendant, They had not been declared suppressive, but Scientology had their P.C. folders, as well as other confessions, and they were extremely apprehensive. They did not see very many of the documents, and it is not entirely clear which they saw. At any rate Mary Sue Hubbard did not appear to be so much distressed by this fact, as by the fact that Armstrong had given the documents to Michael Flynn, whom the Church considered its foremost lawyer-enemy.(Note5- " No, I think my emotional distress and upset is the fact that someone took papers and materials without my authorization and then gave them to your Mr. Flynn." However just as the plaintiffs have First Amendment rights, the defendant has a Constitutional right to an attorney of his own choosing. In legal contemplation this fact that defendant selected Mr. Flynn rather than some other lawyer cannot by itself be tortious. In determining whether the defendant unreasonably invaded Mrs. Hubbard's privacy, the court is satisfied the invasion was slight, and the reasons and justification for the defendants conduct manifest. Defendant was told by Scientology to get an attorney. He was declared an enemy by the Church. He believed, reasonably, that he was subject to "fair game." The only way he could defend himself, his integrity, and his wife was to take that which was available to him and place it in a safe harbor, to wit, his lawyer's custody. He may have indulged in overkill, in the sense that he took voluminous materials, some of which appear only marginally relevant to his defense. But he was not lawyer and cannot be held to that precise standard of judgment. Further , at the time that he was accumulating the material, he was terrified and undergoing severe emotional turmoil. The court is satisfied that he did not unreasonably intrude upon Mrs. Hubbard's privacy under the circumstances by in effect simply making his knowledge that of his attorneys. It is of course, rather ironic that the person who authorized G.O. 121669 should complain about invasion of privacy. The practice of culling supposedly confidential "P.C. folders or files" to obtain information for purposes of intimidation and or harassment is repugnant was no respector of anyone's civil rights, particularly that of privacy. Plaintiff Mary Sue Hubbard's cause of action for conversion must fail for the same reason as plaintiff Church. The documents were all together in Omar Garrison's possession. There was no way the defendant could make any distinction.

Insofar as the return of documents is concerned, matters which are still under seal may have evidentiary value in the trial of the cross complaint or in other third party litigation. By the time that proceedings on the cross complaint are concluded, the court's present feeling is that those document or objects not used by that time should be returned to the plaintiff. However the court will reserve jurisdiction to reconsider that should circumstances warrant.

Dated: June 20th 1984

Paul G. Breckenridge, Jr
Judge of the Superior Court

Link to the collection of court documents relating to the Scientology scam.

Originally posted by dbloch7986
Open invitation: there are lots of books out there about Scientology written by L. Ron Hubbard. Read one and see what you think. I would recommend "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health". Great book.

If you have questions about the structure of he church and how it functions, I recommend you visit one and ask.

Back in the late 80's early 90's there were scientologists on the corners of Perth trying to ensnare people.

We went back to a 'church' once and they 'audited' this girl we were with (we werent interested, she was) and it took over an hour and then they wanted to go with her to the ATM in order for her to give them money.

You have to be either really new to it, really easily led astray or in on it to try and get people to believe you on here.

Hubbard was nothing but a charlatan. And my god what a clever man he was, to fool so many people with such a stupid story....