Obama admin wants to track you on the internet now.

Originally posted by pirhanna
This is Patriot Act Part II. Like I've been posting on here, Obama = Bush.
As usual, it has nothing to do with our security, just like making lists of people who read certain books at the library. The point is of course to control, contain and eventually eliminate any political opposition to the ruling class. The intent is to create a complete subservience to the elite, the ones who truly control the state.

Controlling knowledge is the primary weapon of class warfare.

Correct: it is almost an up to date version of the patriot act. Obama is like Bush in this instance because this is not a left nor right issue, it is an issue of national security.

How many terrorist attacks have been completed in America since the patriot act? How many before?

The point is to control, contain and eventually eliminate any political opposition to the ruling class huh? Well that is not what the article says, that doesn't make any sense. Can you please explain your reasoning behind this to me and the rest of us. Don't you understand that the "elite" as you like to call them are just like us. We vote them in they were regular people who actually stood up for what they believed in and wanted to make a difference.

Considering this is a "conspiracy" website I am not that surprised with all of these "conspiracies" about this new measure of preventing terrorism and criminal activity domestically.

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier

Originally posted by 23refugee
reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

 

I kind of disagree.
It is aboout me.
I'm not afraid.
I'm not paranoid.
I want my privacy, no matter how afraid and paranoid someone else might be.
Don't read my mail, listen in on my phone, examine my garbage, etc.

Well the fact is that they can already check your garbage, read your mail and listen to your phone. The internet is the next step.

Do you not understand the amount of illegal activity that happens via the Internet?

This is an issue of national security not a left or right agenda.

Why don't you want people to be able to "read your mail etc"? I am assuming you don't have anything to hide and I am really curious as to why.

Why? It's the difference between freedom and servitude.

Not everything the state determines as being detrimental to society or illegal has standing on any kind of real moral ground. This tool becomes the bludgeoning club of the elite and government oppressors to eliminate political opposition.

That's why.

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier


Yes but this is the kind of protection that many of us don't want. We have a damn good military which I know will protect the USA just fine. Infringing on our freedoms only makes them the terrorists in my mind, I don't need someone watching over my shoulder I am not a coward and I refuse to trade my freedoms for their blanket of security.

I think its really messed up,
Doesn't Obama have anything better to do?
Terrorists use BlackBerry, Facebook, and Skype all the time? YEAH RIGHT!!!!!
I think he just wants to spy on under-aged girls because of his pedophilia tendencies,
because under-aged girls are mostly the ones that uses "Facebook, Skype, and BlackBerry all the time

If there were any real Terrorists they would be using disposable cell-phones, and coded newspaper classifieds,
Not freaking "Facebook" wtf?!?!?
I think the government has lost their minds and are incapable of rational thought

Originally posted by jaynkeel
reply to post by Ignorance_Defier

 

Yes but this is the kind of protection that many of us don't want. We have a damn good military which I know will protect the USA just fine. Infringing on our freedoms only makes them the terrorists in my mind, I don't need someone watching over my shoulder I am not a coward and I refuse to trade my freedoms for their blanket of security.

You don't want this protection? So if your child or a child you know was kidnapped and taken to eastern europe and sexually assaulted and then murdered and it all could have been prevented if they were aloud to view some child traffickers email and use it in court, you wouldn't want it?

Don't you understand that a great deal of criminal activity happens through the Internet?

And I don't understand which "freedom" you would be trading if this went into place?

Why are you worried about people scanning through your probably innocent internet activity. How does it directly affect you?

How do you know that they already haven't. What differences does it make?

Originally posted by SupremeKnowledge
I think its really messed up,
Doesn't Obama have anything better to do?
Terrorists use BlackBerry, Facebook, and Skype all the time? YEAH RIGHT!!!!!
I think he just wants to spy on under-aged girls because of his pedophilia tendencies,
because under-aged girls are mostly the ones that uses "Facebook, Skype, and BlackBerry all the time

edit on 27-9-2010 by SupremeKnowledge because: (no reason given)

What is the logic behind this post? Anything better to do? He personally will not be the one doing it. Yes, terrorist do use skype, facebook, black berry, email and various other technologies that you and I do. As do many criminals.

"I think he just wants to spy on under-aged girls because of his pedophilia tendencies,
because under-aged girls are mostly the ones that uses "Facebook, Skype, and BlackBerry all the time"

What makes you think he is interested in spying on underage girls? Do you have any evidence (valid or not) that would suggest Obama is a pedophilia?? Underage girls are not the ones that use the following things you listed. Can you provide some statistics that would correlate with what you said? Blackberry's are used by many business middle aged men.

To me your post indicate that you come from the far right and you don't understand the dialectic approach of combining thesis with anti-thesis in order to create a synthesis.

You also like to demonize those who's policies you do not agree with by slandering them with absurd names.

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier


Yeah,
I could see the headlines now, "Billion dollar terrorist drug cartel caught by incriminating "status updates" on Facebook, While they were chatting cam to cam on Skype"

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier

Originally posted by pirhanna
This is Patriot Act Part II. Like I've been posting on here, Obama = Bush.
As usual, it has nothing to do with our security, just like making lists of people who read certain books at the library. The point is of course to control, contain and eventually eliminate any political opposition to the ruling class. The intent is to create a complete subservience to the elite, the ones who truly control the state.

Controlling knowledge is the primary weapon of class warfare.

Correct: it is almost an up to date version of the patriot act. Obama is like Bush in this instance because this is not a left nor right issue, it is an issue of national security.

How many terrorist attacks have been completed in America since the patriot act? How many before?

The point is to control, contain and eventually eliminate any political opposition to the ruling class huh? Well that is not what the article says, that doesn't make any sense. Can you please explain your reasoning behind this to me and the rest of us. Don't you understand that the "elite" as you like to call them are just like us. We vote them in they were regular people who actually stood up for what they believed in and wanted to make a difference.

Considering this is a "conspiracy" website I am not that surprised with all of these "conspiracies" about this new measure of preventing terrorism and criminal activity domestically.

I appreciate the rebuttal though I obviously disagree with your perspective.

To answer: No, of course it's not what the article says. The press generally have their thoughts in a very narrow pipe. It flows one way or the other, but misses the entirety of the actual world around it. One must extrapolate what has really been occurring and continue to monitor long term trends and developments, thus synthesizing the course of prescribed history.

Second: No, they are not like us. They are SO not like the common American. The top 1-2% of citizens control approximately 90% of the wealth in the country. They are not like me, nor like most of us on here. One need only sit for a dinner with one of this upper ruling elite and speak to them to realize they haven't a clue about ordinary America, and that the entirety of their political thought regards protecting their wealth (and therefor power) from the rest of us degenerates. The control of information is paramount to control of the system which is built on the faith of the common American. Let me reiterate. Control of information is PARAMOUNT to control of a populace.

Third: You should read the thread about where all that money is: The Great Confiscation of your Wealth (ats thread)

Fourth: Are we talking foreign based attacks, domestic attacks, or government terror operations? This is a topic all it's own and I couldn't possibly go into all of it in a simple reply. It's the stuff of large books.

Five: Ah, the ruse of election. Another topic of lengthy debate. I'll let some of the other members tackle this one. But I will say that though even I vote sometimes, I'm not crude enough to think that my selections are not already or will not in the future be controlled by that top 1% through either the necessity of borrowing funds or by other means of persuasion.

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier


Your curiosity won't be satisfied because it's simply none of your business.
Sure, the world is a scary place, but the government's hands were tied by the Constitution.
Don't like it? Amend it.
If you're that frightened, I suggest you start with the First Amendment.
Lets begin by monitoring every church, mosque, synagogue, and temple in the country. There's some frightening stuff coming from those.You may not even need to crush free speech if you catch them there.
As for criminal activity, as soon as every public servant is monitored by the public 24 hours a day, I might be willing to be less concerned about my own privacy.
Lost all that money in a war zone overseas and have the gall to pretend to be looking for theives.

Bush Order Expands Network Monitoring

President Bush signed a directive this month that expands the intelligence community's role in monitoring Internet traffic to protect against a rising number of attacks on federal agencies' computer systems.

The directive, whose content is classified, authorizes the intelligence agencies, in particular the National Security Agency, to monitor the computer networks of all federal agencies -- including ones they have not previously monitored.

Source

Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove, Officials Report

WASHINGTON, Dec. 23 - The National Security Agency has traced and analyzed large volumes of telephone and Internet communications flowing into and out of the United States as part of the eavesdropping program that President Bush approved after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to hunt for evidence of terrorist activity, according to current and former government officials.

As part of the program approved by President Bush for domestic surveillance without warrants, the N.S.A. has gained the cooperation of American telecommunications companies to obtain backdoor access to streams of domestic and international communications, the officials said.

Source

So... Who did what? You were saying something about the evil democrats, I think...

reply to post by pirhanna


I appreciate and respect that you are able to have a civil debate on this thread.

My answers are;

1.) Your response to this was a conspiracy theory itself.

2.) Yes, I would agree that many are the extremely wealthy but not all. Especially when it comes to local government. Not sure how much each senator and rep made before there were in office.

3.) I read that thread early and it is a conspiracy theory also.

4.) That is a large topic, I think it deals with everything though. Monitoring the internet would diminish all of those, what argument could you make that would counter that?

5.)So you are saying that your vote doesn't count?

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
Hmmm, wonder when the Obamabots are going to wake up from their messiah induced euphoria?

What is it you are usually saying about the opposing side reduced to name calling?

Yet, you latch on to those catch phrases and expouse emotionally charged rhetoric as this opening statement ....
"wake up from their messiah induced euphoria"?

Where did you get the impression of the term "messiah" from, an Obamabot, or somewhere else me wonders?

Where do you collect the talking points you spew from? What "facts" are they reporting through their unbiased investigative journalism, and what will are they the extension of?

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
Hmmm, wonder when the Obamabots are going to wake up from their messiah induced euphoria?

is this your general consensus, that anyone supportive of the President Of the United States is something a kin to a brainwashed robot infected with some kind of mental messiah virus and schizoaffective disorder?

I thought it was only the opposing side that incorporated such tactics, as you have accused and posted in other threads.

So, tracking us with GPS, listening into phone calls, reading our text messages, reading our emails and now watching everything we do on the internet.

When the hell is everyone going to wake up to this insanity. The war on terror is not the war on terror, it is a war on our freedoms, liberty and privacy.

It is a war on fear, a worldwide war on fear, fear being what terror depends upon in order to be successful terrorism.

Saltheart, you want to be able to track the world on the internet, yet you do not want the world to be able to track you on the internet?

Saltheart, you want to be able to track the country on the internet, yet you do not want the country to be able to track you on the internet?

Why should you have more rights and priveledges than an entire nation?

Article-Wiretapped phones, now Internet?
Snippet-

Essentially, officials want Congress to require all services that enable communications -- including encrypted e-mail transmitters such as BlackBerry, social networking websites such as Facebook and software that allows direct "peer-to-peer" messaging such as Skype -- to be technically capable of complying if served with a wiretap order. The mandate would include being able to intercept and unscramble encrypted messages.

Being able to tap these mediums of communication just as a phone can be tapped does not equate to the Obama administration wanting to track me personally on the internet. It is a tool employed to collect evidence and assist with investigations of individuals, groups, and organizations that are in the process of or have shown interest in threats to the citizens and threats to national security.

If you are against this, then you should also be against phone tapping, and furthermore if we follow this brand of thinking we should also consider freeing all prisoners that are in prison due to phone tapping evidence. I don't see how one can claim the right or freedom to have it both ways simultaneously when views are apparently opposed.

So, are we going to have ANYONE of you stand up and call him a tyrant anytime soon?

phone taps existed prior to Obama's birth. Same concept here, just another medium for communication. This only makes Obama at the most as least the same tyrant as previous presidents, not to mention the judicial institutions globally that have also endorsed and supported wire tapping.

Wire tapping has been and is legal. All this bill is proposing is that new mediums of "peer to peer" communications also adhere and conform to being able to allow wire tapping also, if it is so ordered by a judge with reasonable justification.

What the HELL is a matter with you people?

Personally what the HELL is a matter with me is having emotionally irrationally charged individuals in our ATS community referring to fellow members as "Obamabots" and making claims as to their conscious receptivity by asking when they "are going to wake up from their messiah induced euphoria?"

If it helps, imagine GW's face on him if you are that enthralled with him. It might help you pull your head out of your ass.

I don't take this personally. My cranium is not in my rectum

Come on, come and dissemble. Come and attempt to make excuses for this.

1984 is here and the Obamabots will cheer it on!

"Yes We Can"


"Yes WE CAN"


"YES WE CAN"

oooh... the humanity of it....








Saltheart,
They are not asking for it to be legal and making a new law, they are letting us know what they are doing, already.
A more transparent government overtly letting us know what has been going on in the past .... gradually...

Damn polite of them to let us know, if you ask me,
ET

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
reply to post by pirhanna

 

I appreciate and respect that you are able to have a civil debate on this thread.

My answers are;

1.) Your response to this was a conspiracy theory itself.

2.) Yes, I would agree that many are the extremely wealthy but not all. Especially when it comes to local government. Not sure how much each senator and rep made before there were in office.

3.) I read that thread early and it is a conspiracy theory also.

4.) That is a large topic, I think it deals with everything though. Monitoring the internet would diminish all of those, what argument could you make that would counter that?

5.)So you are saying that your vote doesn't count?

Sure, of course, I have come to my conclusions after many years of considerations and thought.

1. That's what I see going on. That's what I see in my real life around me. I believe what I see and experience. That's just how I operate. Perhaps you have had different experiences than me, but I can tell you what I say is not just a "theory", it's an experience. They are different.

2. There are a couple counters to this, though you have a fair point. First, most local politicians have been well indoctrinated throughout their lives to champion the current system. That does not however make it right, nor does it mean they understand what they are doing in the broader scope of social structure, and financial leverage regarding political ideology. Second, I was not indicating all politicians are wealthy. However, to ascend to true prominence politically requires a great deal of financial backing. The backing comes primarily from the elitists who control both sides of the coin, and often fund both tickets in order to retain control no matter the outcome. Yes, I know a few local politicians mean well and I wish them well in their endeavors. They are the exception.

3. Yes, that's a conspiracy theory. But, where's the money?

4. Of course internet monitoring would reduce, say international terrorist attacks on this country. So would nuking the entirety of Pakistan (I would guess). That does not justify implementing it. What monitoring the internet would also do is increase government oppression of political dissent. I suppose you have read that there are now assassination lists of American "terrorists". In addition, it has been noted recently that those that don't believe the official version of 911 should be considered aiding and abetting "terrorists". Terrorist is quickly expanding in it's definition. Internet monitoring will inevitably lead to the consideration of those who "aid and abet" through their political ideology. Said people will be summarily incriminated by courts that are not open to the public, that have no jury, and have no trials. The internet monitoring is just another piece in a rapidly forming puzzle of social warfare.

5. Not when the entire process is controlled so that there is a controlled outcome no matter. So, while it counts in a tally in a machine, it doesn't count in the ability to change the government if we so wish, which is true democracy. It doesn't matter if you pick heads or tails, it's still the same quarter. Made by the same bankers, created by the same institutions you might like to change. Too bad only quarters work in that political vending machine.

Edit: typo

Umm, dumb question time? Why wish to allow for something that is already being done now? If you don''t think every keystroke, every website and every little thing that you've done on the web isn't being recorded and monitored make no mistake that it is.

NSA, CIA has pretty well carte blanche over this sector of the internet and for the most part aren't abusing it.

Regan and Clinton gave the US Federal Govt the authourity to do this so in that regard it is still current law and is more then likely not going to be undone anytime soon.

If you think that the Govt hasn't been in lock step with companies like Microsoft, Apple, IBM, Hewlett-Packard, Dell you have been decieved. As the internet grew and expanded beyond a server room and like 10 home systems the Govt has been closely monitoring the actions of everyone as well as and has your entire internet history for your lifetime recorded on a disk and hat is filed away in a storage facility comprable in size to a medium sized city. The Govt is known for it's meticulous record and bookkeeping as it has this insasiable appetite for data and input that some might say is borderline either ocd or manic and extremely unhealthy as well as being potentially fatal. By the time you retire the data they have on you will easily fill up a bookshelf that is 10 feet tall and 6 feet wide by at least a foot and a half deep carrying 10 shelves full of space.

As technology expands beyond laptops, ipods and cell phones to include more smaller devices every peice of portable tech has a gps in it to correlate where is it in conjunction to it's base or home to determine device workability everything is chipped and is being recorded, Cars and transportation used to be the primary source of data in regards to record keeping but nowadays that has been dethroned and is now like 3rd or 4th on the list behind cell phones, mobile handheld devices (iPad, iPhone, Droid, Touch), and laptops (Netbooks, Notebooks, General Laptops), portable handheld gaming counsels (Sony PSP, Nintendo Lite DS) and is expected to totally fall out of the top 5 by 2015 - 2020 as the advancements in wearable internet devices, portable internet enabled televisions go live as well as how tech like the Amazon Kindle portable internet enabled book reader is steadily gaining in popularity. Portable and personal gps handheld devices are taking off.

Just wait until the satelite tv, digital cable is converted to a wearable. TV anywhere.

Hook, line, sinker, SUNK!

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


Hey yeah, well if we catch some of them conservatives engaging in activity we find to be of terrorist interest,
...say like posting excerpts of The Constitution (which is by the way now a mental illness too) we can arrest them immediatly on suspicion of terrorist activity.

I mean really, why bother with charges and all when you can just skip that with circumstancial evidence.
*bitter sarcasm*

WOW

Some of the responses in here comming from his supporters wouldnt shock me if this were 2006 and if the other guy was in charge. But no, not now, they are in charge, and now infringing on peoples rights is "A-OK" with them.

As much as you all kicked and screamed about how the other guy was infringing on your rights, you would think that something like this would be the final nail in the coffin, but no, they love him even more for it.
You deserve the title Obamanites.

This just goes to show you that they really dont care about peoples civil liberties and rights. Just goes to show you they dont care about personal freedom, all they want is a pure totalitarianism state.

Let me ask this, how do you expect to keep your seats in government when you say it is OK to do these types of things?
You bash one side for doing this exact same thing, and yet you are so ok with your people doing it?
Hypocracy much?

"OH WHATEVER OBAMA SAYS IS OK WITH ME, CAUSE HE IS JUST LOOKING OUT FOR US AND TRYING TO PROTECT US FROM EVIL INTERNET MONSTERS". Get Real.

You make me sick. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


Well thank goodness for that because I'm lost, missing my keys, my lights are out and I've fallen and I can't get up!

I need more than a little supervision over here!!!

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier


It's called life you win some you lose some. The point I was trying to make is the last thing I need is another babysitter watching over me. I already live in a nanny state that already tries to live my life for me. And if something to that effect happened to my children the last people I would be contacting to take care of the problem is the government. That would be a personal issue that I would deal with myself. Perhaps your part of the weaker gene pool that cowers in fear, I am not and like I said I will take care of my own, if the government can help then great but I wouldn't put all my faith in waiting for help from them. But I can see that part of the argument and can agree that in a case like that for many people it would be a blessing, to that I will agree with you on.

What exactly do you suppose "they" are looking for? It's kind of like having your mom reading your diary, isn't it? Well, big government is your parent. No wonder this system is called "parens patriae". Maybe the point is that it's time for you to grow up and cut the apron strings.

reply to post by Common Good

WOW

Embedded right after the elections.
Do you ever leave for a snack or do they make you work the threads day and night?
Y'all should unionize....opps. Remember Jimmy.