An open invitation to all ATS members concerning the homosexual issue.

For one, it shouldn't be an 'ISSUE'.
If we can all group together on ATS, and share our opinions peacefully without constantly hating on each other, why the hell should anyone be allowed to hate on bisexuals/homosexuals?
I think the topic should be left alone if no one here can handle it maturely.


I'm all for homosexuality, and no, that's not just cause I am bisexual
We were made beings of free will, and if I choose to love the same sex before the opposite sex, it is MY choice and NO ONE has the right to judge me for it, or try to change my mind. (if the mind can even be changed is arguable. I believe I was born this way.)
And for those who want to argue that its not natural to be attracted to the same sex, you clearly are uneducated.
It is not normal compared to the ideals we've had shoved down our throats since birth, but it is not unnatural.
Why else would there be bisexual and homosexual animals?

Here's a good analogy for the natural vs normal.
A girl is born with one blue eye, and one brown eye. (Not by choice either, of course.)
Is this unnatural?
No. Its just different from what we consider normal.

Oh and here's another good point.
WOULD YOU JUDGE THAT GIRL FOR HAVING 2 DIFFERENT COLORED EYES?
*And does the fact that she's not normal in this matter make her any different from the rest of us, other than she's got different colored eyes?



Its things like this that remind me why I despise most of humanity.
hmph.

Hi, I am a new member but have been tuning into ATS for some time. I am almost 40, married with 4 kids. I attended church for many years but couldn't get in line with everything I heard from the pulpit. I have studied the Bible for over 20 years and although I don't claim to have all the answers here's my 2 cents worth. I do not believe homosexuality is wrong at all in fact the more I study the more I'm leaning towards the conclusion that if Jesus wasn't gay he was at the very least bi-sexual. The only people Jesus seems to have gotten upset with were the self-righteous, bigoted church leaders of His time. We need to realize that God loves us unconditionally, Jesus came back to restore the relationship lost in the garden of Eden, and love those around you like you love yourself. Sorry that was a little long winded lol. have a good one.

I support homosexuality
I'm Not homosexual
The people that say its unnatural are not educated in the situation and base their arguments off of misinformation.
Just because homosexuality does not produce offspring does not make it a bad thing
your supposed to just live life how you want to on your own standards
not what society thinks is abnormal
the fact is that on average, dumber people have more kids, then those dumb kids have even more dumb kids
so societys' normal is based off of unintelligent people
remember this is a country where american idol is the #1 show and voted for bush... twice
and where people who use reason and logical thinking are in the minority

Originally posted by willie9696
The only people Jesus seems to have gotten upset with were the self-righteous, bigoted church leaders of His time. We need to realize that God loves us unconditionally, Jesus came back to restore the relationship lost in the garden of Eden, and love those around you like you love yourself. Sorry that was a little long winded lol. have a good one.

Welcome to the forum, and it's nice to see someone whose faith can be reconciled with the realities of the world around them. Life's too short to attach a sense of moral superiority to one's belief system. That's so high school.

Yay!

(Am straight male but why should i care who adult people # with)

reply to post by number38


Since we are all sovereign souls....no one has the right to judge another soul.
To ask the question you have asked is judgmental...

Why do we expect everyone to be the same...I suggest you take it up with the Creator if you have any complaints about his/her creations.

I mean no disrespect to yourself with this post.

reply to post by AndrewJay


Oh dont they?

It is obvious from recent threads which have been posted on ATS. Some members do have issues with homosexulity and bisexuality, are we meant to continue like little pleasant members and ignore the demonisations, derogatory remarks?

I for one will not. I have battled with others in real life over Bigotry and Discriminationary remarks with regards to homosexuals, lesbians an bisexuals. I for one am not about to sit back and let ATS be over run with Homophobes. If that means I am even warned evertime I engage in retaliating to the comments posted then so be it.

It bugs ones happiness, when they say in Gods and JESUS's eyes it is a sin. Wait a minute Jesus Loved John so what does that make him? So did God punissh Jesus for loving someone from the same sex. No he did not.

Some people really need to get a reality check sometimes.

Nay.

Yay. We all deserve to be treated fairly no matter what we are or are not. Legalizing gay marriage is another step forward for equality for everyone.

The only reason against gay marriage is a religious one and since there is a separation of church and state, there shouldn't even be an issue at all.

Yay and Nay......................if you're gay and happy, good for you, everyone deserves a shot at happiness. However, keep it out of our schools, kids have enought to deal with, they don't need to deal with issues like this in elementary school. I also feel that special rights have been granted to ehough people here, so take the civil union deal and work with it to make the benefits the same, but leave marriage out of it....it's not the same. Frankly, I think the gay movement would do better to work on that, rather than spend more money on something that should never pass. The only ones benefiting right now are the attourneys on both sides. In the end, live and let live.......

reply to post by tobyxero


Maybe take some encouragement from other countries, whom have implemented law that allows same sex marriage.

We have already done this in the UK, Civil Partnerships. So maybe it might be a model to other countries, here is hoping.

Denying ignorance definitely includes brainless homophobia. That means I'm all for it, by the way. Go for it, knock yourselves out, all the more women for me.

Personally I'm rather indifferent and objective to the homosexual anomaly. I call it an anomaly because its completely backwards as far as nature is concerned and a dead-end in terms of the continuation of those leanings.

Where it concerns me is if it "confuses" or "influences" children specifically and how it confuses and influences them. If it teaches children tolerance then that is a "pro" if it influences them to make homosexual decisions because their (adopted) "parents" decisions and outlook then that would be a "con". As we all know "monkey see, monkey do".

The fundamental flaw with homosexuality is that it is completely dependent on heterosexuals to provide a "family structure" and the continuation of the species. Basically if everyone was homosexuals the human race would be kaput within a century. Not necessarily a ideology that is good for people to adopt if we want to continue as a species. The fact that you have to reproduce heterosexually almost gives unwavering proof that the "homosexual" anomaly is a "flaw" in the human psych, genome, or what have you...it definitely isn't functioning as intended.

I approach the whole homosexuality issue as a "to each their own" perspective but I do have some reserved fears as to the consequences of such philosophies being accepted as "normal" or "unproblematic" because as much as you want to dance around and attempt to rationalize or justify the issue...it is very very problematic.

Simply heterosexual philosophy will continue to procreate and homosexual philosophy, it is impossible to procreate.

reply to post by number38


Too simplistic to take seriously. As with all people who have differences no matter whether intellectual, emotional, religious, racial, cultural, homosexuality has its good people and its bad people. A sex life is so personal as not to be warranting this kind of discussion.

Originally posted by Quasar_La-Zar
I support homosexuality
I'm Not homosexual
The people that say its unnatural are not educated in the situation and base their arguments off of misinformation.
Just because homosexuality does not produce offspring does not make it a bad thing
your supposed to just live life how you want to on your own standards
not what society thinks is abnormal
the fact is that on average, dumber people have more kids, then those dumb kids have even more dumb kids
so societys' normal is based off of unintelligent people
remember this is a country where american idol is the #1 show and voted for bush... twice
and where people who use reason and logical thinking are in the minority

I love to completely disagree with you on this and take some slight offense in the "not educated" declaration you made.

Regardless of the social structure or whether one exists or not, homosexuals cannot recreate themselves PERIOD.

Interesting you confuse the point with the claim "dumb" people have more kids etc etc and that may be the case because they aren't aware of the ramifications of having too many kids, but this fact is completely irrelevant to what the issue is, the issue isn't dumb people procreating, its homosexuals not being to procreate AT ALL.

Intelligence is NOT what is being questioned, moral character is NOT what is being questioned, ethics are NOT what is being questioned and no one is saying homosexual can not be all of the above, rather the issue is and still remains and forever will remain How do homosexual survive as a species without the dependence of heterosexual people?

They cannot, PERIOD, and that is not an opinion that is a natural FACT of life deemed by god or whoever/whatever you believe in.

Unfortunately due to the politically correct climate of the world not enough research is being done or has been done to shed light on exactly WHY people become homosexuals. Its completely backwards in terms of evolution if you believe that, its completely backwards in terms of survival, and completely backwards to the functions of male and female gender specific purposes.

If life was intended to have homosexuals in it, surely there would be a method for them to procreate and continue on? If life intended for homosexuals then why have male and females at all? Why not one sex capable of reproducing? Fact is as much as some people don't want to admit it and what have you, homosexuality is "not working as intended" if it were there wouldn't be the need for different sexes in almost every living creature we know of.

Having said all that I still believe "to each their own"

but I don't agree that accepting homosexuality as a "normal' thing" that's "working as intended" because its politically safe to do so, is conducive to common sense understanding of how life works. Its one or the other, either you acknowledge the common sense side that homosexuality is an unintended anomaly or you ditch common sense and believe homosexuality has a future working as intended.

Sorry if this offended anyone as that is not my intent, my intent is only to express the obvious anomalies of homosexuality and to inspire more in depth thought on the implications of homosexuality.

Originally posted by Sly1one
Regardless of the social structure or whether one exists or not, homosexuals cannot recreate themselves PERIOD.

This is just not true.

I personally have known several gay men and women who before "coming out" were in heterosexual marriages that produced children. Of course, in most cases the marriages ended up being miserable and in all cases the marriages were not fulfilling, but the genes were passed on.

Failing that, there is of course always the turkey baster method of insemination

One of the favorite "thought experiments" seems to be the "imagine two islands, one with 100 straight men and women and one with 100 gay men and women". It always amuses me, because I'm pretty darn sure the gays would work out a way to keep the population going, even if they didn't base their social structure on the standard mother/father/offspring unit. Humans are very resourceful about survival of the species.

Plus, these arguments always seem to rely on a very simplistic model of one single gay gene that doesn't confer any survival benefits to outweigh the reproductive disadvantage.

Yet there have been studies that suggest that gay men's female relatives have higher fertility rates, for instance. And there are plenty of examples of genes that are only a disadvantage when the offspring receive two copies but that are an advantage when only one copy is passed on (the classic example being sickle cell trait).

The Biology and Sexual Orientation article at Wikipedia includes many of the theories about biological bases of homosexuality and is a pretty interesting read, in my opinion.

Yay.

As I grow older and older
And totter toward the tomb,
I find that I care less and less
Who goes to bed with whom.

Dorothy L. Sayers

I'm all for gay men...Hip Hip Hooray!! I only wish there were more of them. And I mean lots
and LOTS of them...like 90 percent gay. You guys have a blast! Knock yourselves out!
GO FOR IT!!!


I'm not too cool with the lesbian thing though, Sorry girls, I mean its hot and all,
but I get turned down enough for dance requests. And I'm not actually against
it or anything...it just doesn't fit well with my ideal world view where I'm receiving
400 or 500 hundred.....thousand video booty call requests a day.

See how selfless and tolerant I am

Who gives a sh*t?

oh so opposed to it. It is lately harder for an opposite sex to gain trust of the other. There seems to be some divide between male and female sexes. They are not wanting that challenge now to figure out the opposite sex. This is how I know the human race is failing. They say it is easier to be with the same sex.