An open invitation to all ATS members concerning the homosexual issue.

There is no way that I could say nay, so you can bet I'm sure to vote Yay!!!

'the homosexual issue' ... 'the homosexual issue'! This is absolutely ridiculous.

Sexuality is not an issue for consensus. It is not something to be voted on. It is not something for us to debate whether it is right or wrong. And it is neither for the people or the state to decide.

If there were only one gay couple in the entire world and everyone disagreed with homosexuality, then there should be nothing to stop the couple. It's for us as individuals to decide who to love and who to marry, no one else.

Frankly, lets all butt out of this argument. Aren't there some out of focus videos of birds to look at in the Aliens and UFOs forum we can be looking at....?

Originally posted by subby
Denying ignorance definitely includes brainless homophobia. That means I'm all for it, by the way. Go for it, knock yourselves out, all the more women for me.

I can say the same thing about them and say they have heterophobia.

2nd line

reply to post by number38


Also a yay - the most decent, compassionate and honorable people out of all my friends are all gay. I would be sooo happy to live in country populated only by gay people.

A big YAY from me.

I'm as strait as strait gets. I don't even entertain teaming up on a chick with one of my boys(like ghostbuster DONT CROSS THE STREAMS!) But I have absolutely no problem with gays. When I get hit on by guys (more often than by women actually) I take it as a complement seeing as a high percentage of them are really picky about the "looks" department.

But after I let you know that I have no interest in you sexually (be it man or woman) I suggest they drop any further pursuit from there.

I also have no problem with a same sex couple adopting a child seeing as sexual preference is not a learned behavior, but genetically encoded. There are many worse home-life situations for a child to have other than having 2 dads or 2 moms.

Be who you want to be, as long as you don't take the rights of others away. Your being gay doesn't affect me in the least just like my being hetero doesn't affect you.

Live and let live!

Why does this crap even need to be discussed? I don't come on here and discuss my sexual preferences and I don't shove them down anybody's throat either. I just don't see where this topic is even remotely on topic at any of the forums here at ATS. There's no conspiracy...it's a private, personal issue. Sheesh. Let it alone.

Originally posted by BAZ752
Many might argue that in this day and age, homosexuality is more common among men [as opposed to women] than ever before. That, of course, is absolute nonsense. Homosexuality is just afforded more social exposure and is as common now as it ever has been. Human history teaches us this. Human history of homosexuality is also millennia old.

I am rigidly heterosexual, I find women beautiful creatures and am attracted to them through my own instincts as a male. Do I understand the attraction to other men? Not really, because my body's chemicals are not attracted to other males. Do I acknowledge and appreciate another mans attraction to another man? Of course I do and I sincerely have no issue whatsoever with it.

Socially, I can recognise a handsome man and be quite comfortable admitting that they would be physically attractive to a female, but I do not experience that attraction.

Homosexuality is just as Heterosexuality is, it is and it exists. It is therefore a yay.

Cue Haydn_17 with his ridiculous thread that got pulled - and rightly so.

edit on 27-9-2010 by BAZ752 because: (no reason given)

This reply has restored my faith in humanity.

I have been in a monogamous relationship for eight years with a man who has had sex with men. Is he homosexual? I have had sex with a woman. Am I homosexual? By definition we both are.

Does it matter?

To borrow from americandingbat's fine post:
I am not homosexual.
I have nothing against homosexuality.
I don't care if it's a choice or not.
I think secular marriage should be available to homosexuals just as it is to heterosexuals.

Originally posted by General.Lee
Why does this crap even need to be discussed? I don't come on here and discuss my sexual preferences and I don't shove them down anybody's throat either. I just don't see where this topic is even remotely on topic at any of the forums here at ATS. There's no conspiracy...it's a private, personal issue. Sheesh. Let it alone.

That would be nice if you didn't have people trying to make homosexuality illegal as they are trying to do in Montana. Unfortunately you are wrong to think that it is a "private issue" when there is still a large population in this country trying to wipe gays off the earth and think that there should be laws that criminalize what should be "a private and personal issue." You would think very differently if your brand of sexuality suddenly came under attack.

Originally posted by americandingbat

Originally posted by Sly1one
Regardless of the social structure or whether one exists or not, homosexuals cannot recreate themselves PERIOD.

This is just not true.

I personally have known several gay men and women who before "coming out" were in heterosexual marriages that produced children. Of course, in most cases the marriages ended up being miserable and in all cases the marriages were not fulfilling, but the genes were passed on.

Failing that, there is of course always the turkey baster method of insemination

Turkey baster method still depends on semen and egg meeting which requires heterosexual people unless a lesbian is down to be inseminated by homosexual juice...? How many ways must I say this for it to crush all the dancing people do around the subject right in the face of common sense? It really is and over complicating the matter with ridiculous turkey baster methods is just a desperate attempt to avoid the truth of the matter...

One of the favorite "thought experiments" seems to be the "imagine two islands, one with 100 straight men and women and one with 100 gay men and women". It always amuses me, because I'm pretty darn sure the gays would work out a way to keep the population going, even if they didn't base their social structure on the standard mother/father/offspring unit. Humans are very resourceful about survival of the species.

you cannot be serious? are you implying there is a way of asexual reproduction of the human species?

Plus, these arguments always seem to rely on a very simplistic model of one single gay gene that doesn't confer any survival benefits to outweigh the reproductive disadvantage.

I actually have no idea what you just tried to say here...are you saying homosexuals are genetically smart enough to outsmart "nature"?? and reproduce through thin air?

Yet there have been studies that suggest that gay men's female relatives have higher fertility rates, for instance. And there are plenty of examples of genes that are only a disadvantage when the offspring receive two copies but that are an advantage when only one copy is passed on (the classic example being sickle cell trait).

What does homosexual's heterosexual relatives have to do with anything? If a gay man's sister has a high fertility rate how is that relevant to the homosexuals man's unwillingness/inability to reproduce?

The Biology and Sexual Orientation article at Wikipedia includes many of the theories about biological bases of homosexuality and is a pretty interesting read, in my opinion.

Interesting, I'll check it out.

I wonder if the Anunnaki are really laughing their asses off? They sure as hell didn't create the homosexual lifestyle. Humans created it. Earliest form of homosexuality was in the land of Alexandria and the Island of Lesbo. People need to wake up to this 'born gay' nonsense. 'born gay' is just an excuse for to say, "I can't attract the opposite sex or I can't handle the opposite sex.". :shk:

Originally posted by dragnet53

Originally posted by subby
Denying ignorance definitely includes brainless homophobia. That means I'm all for it, by the way. Go for it, knock yourselves out, all the more women for me.

I can say the same thing about them and say they have heterophobia.

2nd line

I have never heard of a bunch of gay men beating the living # out of a heterosexual man simply because of his sexuality.

Originally posted by dragnet53
People need to wake up to this 'born gay' nonsense. 'born gay' is just an excuse for to say, "I can't attract the opposite sex or I can't handle the opposite sex.". :shk:

My goodness, that really is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read. If you really believe that people are gay because they can't attract the opposite sex or can't handle them, I suggest you actually get to know some gay people and open your mind.

reply to post by number38


Jesus says its unnatural and evil, and against god and jesus and nature. Jesus does not approve. We could almost be talking about the tea party.

No man has the superiority to have the right to tell another how they should live with issues that don't hurt others.
That said, homosexuality is unnatural, you cannot breed.

Originally posted by Sly1one
Turkey baster method still depends on semen and egg meeting which requires heterosexual people unless a lesbian is down to be inseminated by homosexual juice...?

Well, that was kind of my point. Homosexual men produce semen too, you know. And that semen is just as able to fertilize an egg as heterosexual semen. I somehow doubt that most lesbians who want to have a baby are put off by, as you put it, "homosexual juice".

Humans are very resourceful about survival of the species.

you cannot be serious? are you implying there is a way of asexual reproduction of the human species?

No, I'm implying that if 50 lesbians and 50 gay men are on an island and want to ensure the continuation of the human species, they will invent the turkey baster.

Plus, these arguments always seem to rely on a very simplistic model of one single gay gene that doesn't confer any survival benefits to outweigh the reproductive disadvantage.

I actually have no idea what you just tried to say here...are you saying homosexuals are genetically smart enough to outsmart "nature"?? and reproduce through thin air?

No, I'm saying that people have an over simplified view of how genetics works (not to mention epigenetics and factors like prenatal environment). In my opinion, something like homosexuality is unlikely to be caused by a single genetic factor, it would more likely be several genes working in concert along with other factors. Those genes might have additional results that increase the chance offspring will survive and reproduce when they occur separately -- thus they might be preserved in the gene pool for those benefits.

What does homosexual's heterosexual relatives have to do with anything? If a gay man's sister has a high fertility rate how is that relevant to the homosexuals man's unwillingness/inability to reproduce?

If the sister has an increased fertility rate, she will pass her own DNA to more children. If the same genetic factor that contributes to the brother's homosexuality also contributes to the sister's increased fertility, then in "selfish gene" terms it's a winner even though the brother doesn't reproduce.

The Biology and Sexual Orientation article at Wikipedia includes many of the theories about biological bases of homosexuality and is a pretty interesting read, in my opinion.

Interesting, I'll check it out.

It'll probably do a better job than I have at explaining this stuff, plus it has footnotes and stuff you can follow if you find it interesting.

For me it isnt a black or white choice
75% for gay- its their choice, cant have children so they dont help with overpopulation
25% against gay- 'not natural' as some put it

Is it a biologically viable means of propagation? No. Does it exist in nature? Yes.
Then again, if we look at it that way we must sweep away the political, social and religious arguments.

Since the 'question' is based on social, political and religious argument, the question remains as a non-biological issue. You can't have it both ways.

What people enjoy on a sexual, spiritual, or physical basis is no concern of any but the individual - although I personally believe all pedophiles (and I'm not for one second suggesting that gays fall into the category in any general way) should be strung up by their eyelashes and left to the 'justice' of the family and a few Louisville Sluggers. I'm not gay, but I don't judge others by my own preferences.
If you have a problem with gay people, it's your problem. It's not society's problem. It's not the law's problem, and it's not the problem of the politicians or religions.

What happens in a loving, committed relationship is nobody's business but the couple involved, and I believe that the law should support that. I'm for gay marriage (and, let's face it, nothing would stimulate the economy like a gay bridal registry!).

I'm for faith. If you're a Christian/Muslim/Jew/Wiccan/whatever, I absolutely support your right to have a faith and believe in anything you like. I don't try to instill my particular beliefs on you, and ask that you do the same for me.
The same goes for sexuality. What anyone does (without actually harming others - and this is crucial: Do homosexuals harm you in any way shape or form other than being against your beliefs?) in a physical, emotional, sexual, or loving relationship does not change you at all. If you deny gay people their rights to be who they are, are you denying them their basic human rights? If so, where do you draw the line? What's/who's next on your agenda?

The issue is society and its role in sexuality. It does not matter how many rules and laws there are or even the lack of rules or laws. Every society must deal with the ramification of the lack and the rules. The problem stems from humans and it is at the core of what it means to be a human.

From the scientific prospective humans mature sexually before mentally. Sex for humans is a very emotionally charged issue. But the real reason for the irrational behaver is simply when we discuss sex it brings us face to face with our sexuality. Some people become most unhinged when faced with discussing their sexuality so the conflicts begin.

Come on lets be honest most humans don't even want to have a frank discussion, even with themselves, much less their our sexual partner(s). So how can society have a frank discussion about it?
Here is the examples of how uncomfortable it gets.

A 15 year-old girl at the urging of friends flashes here panties to her teacher until it has the, let's call it, the desired effect.

A four-year old girl in a restaurant asks in her outside voice “ Daddy why are those two men over there kissing like you and mommy do. And what were them two dogie's doing outside when we came in.?”

This is real life folks and happens all the time and by not wanting to talk about it will not make it go away. Instead of this being considered a natural occurrence some would even go as far as to say these acts were a crime. Both of these examples are crimes in certain places on earth.

So as soon as sex must be talked about some people get very irrational. So here it is, we ask about sex before our bodies are mature enough to even understand it. Our bodies mature before our minds are ready to understand the ramifications of sex and relationships.

Some societies have went as far as to avoid the whole issue by marrying of their daughters before menstruation so they can learn from their husband when it is time. In other societies this would be a crime. At issue is who has the right to tell you how to express your sexuality.

Lets see do you want it decided in the courts? How about lets pick a religion to decide for you? No wait lets let our parents decide for us. All these methods have been practiced for years therefore they must be the answer end of discussion.

After all who would want to decide for themselves. See the point no matter the rules the law or guidance from our parents we all decided for ourself s even if we are not given the option of being able to express it.

So people say what about crimes again humanity or crimes against nature. Sex is such an integral part of both humanity and nature that it should take a very extreme act to qualify.

Sex in the presence of, and with, consenting adults should not be a concern of anyone but the people involved. Most humans can agree on this but the devil is in the details.

When you bring drugs, religious indoctrination, diminished capacity, change of heart and even age consenting adults becomes murky at best.

So whats the solution. I don't know what right or wrong for you but I can give some advice. If you are about to engage in an act that 12 random members of your community would send you to jail for, even, if taken out of context. Then take extreme care and don't cry discrimination if you go to jail.

We should all be respectful of community norms no matter our personal views and those of our friends, family or sexual partner(s).

Example if you have sex with the blinds open do not be mad if I call the cops or make you a porn star with telescope and camera.

So anyone who thinks it is OK to treat people who have a minority sexual expression in their community unfairly and unjustly. Then if you live next to a nudist community expect less from the government, police, and higher prices, higher taxes and lower wages until you take your clothes off.

So when it comes to sexuality, majority rules right. Well let me state right now that I have taken control of my sexuality it is not up for vote. And neither should yours be.

So how about some rough guidelines.

Stay out of others sex lives until you want to join them (but be respectful if they decline)

If your public displays of your sexuality makes the people around you uneasy tone it down please

When the topic comes up don't allow your emotions stop a healthy respectful exchange of ideas

Remember no one should be defined just because of their sexuality. (So yes fathers it is OK to love and kiss you gay son and your straight son too)

If your sexuality expression is illegal or just plain creepy. Then get help and don't worry. You will be in the majority because most people never get to express themselves fully and they can be happy and well adjusted. (in some places they call this a marriage)

When you express yourself in public do not be annoyed when others make a commit about it no matter how distasteful or rude their comment is. ( This is an emotional issue. Humans get very irrational and should get a pass on this one)

Stop putting people in a box. You don't like it and neither does anyone else.(besides its dark in here)

Love yourself and your fellow man enough that we can be our selfs.

Parents what you do not teach your children about sex, sexuality and expression someone else will and probability should.


So to answer the question.

I don't care and neither should you. That is unless you want to have homosexual relations with me. Then I must respectfully decline and would ask you to not ask again. It creeps me out to think you expected me to say yes. (Oh no, did I let one of my sexual hangups out.)

reply to post by Sly1one


Everything you have said is pathetically ignorant. Increase in population is a bad thing. The suppression of homosexuality is a plague to the human race, you are suppressing nature's way of controlling the population and now we are running out of resources and killing our planet with the amount of pollution that is produced to keep all these children alive that you are all so proud of yourselves for making. And this idea of the island that keeps coming up will never happen anyways so stop talking about it as if it matters. You can make this situation with anything. If you put a 150 men on one island, they'd all die too. Since 150 women could create their own offspring with chromosomal science, they're the only natural people. Guess men unnatural, by your logic. You are wrong, get over it.