How do we really know that the Illuminati is real?

We got to be really critical about this.

Okay, where is the documentation regarding the Illuminati not being dissolved in the late 1700's and surviving? Thus leading to its operation to engineer the French Revolution?

Is it true that a major faction within the Vatican (headed by the Pope) has always had mystical occult control of the Earth, and still does?

Was the Illuminati created in the 1770's to be a mere arm of Roman Vatican tyrannical matrix of control?

The Vatican was surely behind the reactionary measures of Metternich and his allies that led to the preservation of the Empires all the way to the culmination of World War 1. Though did the outcome serve the plans of the Roman Catholic controllers?

Did the Vatican have control over the Rothschilds? If it does, then the banks are truly infiltrated, most notably the Bank of London and the US Federal Reserve.

Did the Vatican fund Hitler and Lenin?

Does the Vatican have supreme authority over the new world order that culminated at the End of World War 2? Does that continue till today?

It is an interesting theory. Though the premise will have to be that the occult Vatican powers have succeeded in a "spiritual tyranny" of the masses today. That makes our society an artifical matrix based on occult mystical grounds, meant to enprison us through a constant chase after pleasures, desires, and entertainment.

Could all this be real?

As of now, I remain on a campaign to impose libertarian reform of corrupt government executive agencies/measures and financial insitutions/banks (the Fed and IMF). All this even if the Illuminati is not real. For corruption is an ordinary human occurrence. Did not Buddha say the ordinary nature of humanity is selfish? Did he not say we could liberate ourselves to get in touch with our TRUE self, our true self which is loving, "eternal and non-eternal"?

What makes you think that "dissolved" means anything?

You are aware that almost everyone who is anyone is a Mason or belongs to some other equivalent organization?

And they do communicate....Many of them sit on boards of directors on each other's corporations.

Can you not see them operating in unison?

Do you think they might have a hierarchy of control directing them?

Might they call it the Illuminati? Or maybe they changed the name to confuse you? You know the old saying, "A Rose by any other name.........."

reply to post by OhZone


Well I am considering its existence. There is not just "yes" or "no". There is probability. Possibly a mid high chance that this occult network of control is real.

I'm sure they don't call themselves illuminati> However I do find it interesting the NSA has not changed the rerouting of that DNS. Maybe they left it up for kicks.

ILLUMINATI BACKWARDS

I think that the name has more than one meaning, and until they announce themselves as such it is pure speculation. When the term "Illuminati" is used, it has several indications. And of course it usually has something to do with the "elite" or corruption.

I think that it will be ill advised to use the term about a particular group, due to the fact that we live in a very backwards world, and never truly know the real facts. We will continue to use the term as we please. I do think that eventually we will be told what the meaning/s of "Illuminati" is, and until then, I guess we will have to wait for the press conference.

Peace, NRE.

This is what I used to think, based on Jordan Maxwell's research:

Text taken from:www.godlikeproductions.com...

Finance, law, government, media, entertainment, every aspect of our secularized society is all part of an artificial matrix.


The base of the matrix lies on immensely powerful dark occultic mystical forces, to keep us in a continuing, seemingly never ending chase after pleasures and delusions to keep us enprisoned. Heck, everything is laced with occultic mystical symbolisms, words, games, and what not. I certainly believe society will be stuck in materialism for a very long time. There is no way out, the false society we live in has fooled our minds to the deepest level.


We need a higher spiritual force to destroy all the institutions and evil technologies that enslave us. I guess there is a high probability human earth civilization will self destruct again, just like what Madame Blavatsky described in her book The Secret Doctrine of how man caused his own downfall many times during the past civilizations of Polaria, Lemuria, Hyperborea, and Atlantis.


We are doomed.

Text taken from: www.godlikeproductions.com...

To think such things without proper evidence is irrational.

Hey Ruffian,

Here is the problem. Thinking of the whole picture in terms of the Illuminati, and the vatican just does not give justification to the situation as a whole. The "School of Mysteries" is a complex system of secret societies from all over the world. It is in every nation, religion, and type of society. From the local lodge all the way up to the international groups.

It is compartmentalized, and involves degrees, or steps to higher knowledge. The vatican is definately in the upper tiers, but it didn't start with just them. Before the vatican, and before the holy roman empire the practice of the mysteries had a more pagan look and feel to it, but it is escentially the same stuff. Before the Romans, there were the Greeks, with the egyptians before them, and it keeps going back till it fades into ancient history.

But you know what? The top people in that Pyramid of mystery schools still know the precise details of that ancient story from long, long ago. It is a story of understanding that they feel gives them great power and leverage in the world of which the rest of us are just living in. Thats just some observations I've made about all this, and it's only my opinion really. Just look into it more if you want and see for yourself.

reply to post by Khaaaaaan!!


I have looked into the history.

A major impetus for Western occult and mysticism came from the migration of Chaldean Magi from Persia to the West. Hermeticism being the main Western occult tradition. Me being an honorary member of the Hermetic order. It was said that the great Greek thinkers were inititates into the Egyptian mysteries. Babylon is a main mystic site also. It is said that the Roman Empire was modelled after Babylonian tyranny.


Who knows. One may just go a step further and say Reptilian overlords are behind all this. Though I think it is hard to find that kind of evidence.

Project Camelot, which has gained a lot of respect from a lot of people, is claiming to know for sure that the Reptilians are behind this occult network of control. Until I see more evidence then I will believe. Until then I see it as mere entertainment and so I remain to see mainstream society to not be controlled by some famed cult. The evils of society, and I do believe human society is more selfish than good, is a result of ordinary human nature. We must get in touch with our true self and true nature through meditation. Meditation leading us to the meaning of life, bringing us out of the endless chase after pleasures that never fully satisfy us.

As Shakespeare said "A rose by any other name is still a rose"
Illuminati is merely a word used to describe the bloodline elite by those outside of their ranks ie us. They have secretly held the reigns of power over the common masses for thousands upon thousands of years and sub divided infiltrating many groups and areas and names with their intended goal being world domination through subjegation and population control. Infiltrating or setting up systems of control in Health Care. Education, Religion and Finance.
They maintain their grip through indoctrination of their own new borns - and we mereley parrot them in accepting distorted ideas.
The sooner we realise we are all brainwashed from birth then the sooner we can re evaluate who we truly are and what is the truth through self realisation and our inherent gift to be free thinking and tollerant individuals.
This is a massive subject to which so many dedicate their time in unravelling.
There are many anomolies as not all born into high privelidge agree with their so called eders and betters and indeed so called evil is not just their possesion but is a potential inherent in all.
Let us look at the person and not the name attached to them.

reply to post by artistpoet


Maybe Jordan Maxwell is telling the truth. He did say he has researched for his whole life. I like someone who is well researched. Though he or anyone else could claim that the cult is real.

But I don't see this as that important. I see (western) society as mostly a bombardment of pleasures that keeps people to not seek higher meaning. I do see most comtemporary people have real good intentions, though they are blinded by the self centerdness of typical human character. Still, I remain to not preach my beliefs and let people be who and what they are. I spread words of wisdom subtley and not so often, not trying to infringe on them. I help people to gain some insight into truth rarely (we do need to provide adequate help to others, though not too much so as to ensure their own space and freedom of choice), when they choose to head on the path of self discovery then that will be their time.

Originally posted by Ruffian
reply to post by artistpoet

 

Maybe Jordan Maxwell is telling the truth. He did say he has researched for his whole life. I like someone who is well researched. Though he or anyone else could claim that the cult is real.

But I don't see this as that important. I see (western) society as mostly a bombardment of pleasures that keeps people to not seek higher meaning. I do see most comtemporary people have real good intentions, though they are blinded by the self centerdness of typical human character. Still, I remain to not preach my beliefs and let people be who and what they are. I spread words of wisdom subtley and not so often, not trying to infringe on them. I help people to gain some insight into truth rarely (we do need to provide adequate help to others, though not too much so as to ensure their own space and freedom of choice), when they choose to head on the path of self discovery then that will be their time.

edit on 26-9-2010 by Ruffian because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-9-2010 by Ruffian because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-9-2010 by Ruffian because: (no reason given)

Yes I agree in that we are distracted by a myriad of things which in reality do not serve us any true value regarding ones soul.
Because systems of indoctrination as so thorough most are confined in a state of ignorance and unkowingly pass these indoctrinations on from parent to child. I feel only a sense of sadness regarding this state of affairs and also an inner fire to redress the situation in my own small way.
It is true what you say that one can only act as a catalyst in offering a different view point and any wanting or forcing of ideas is counter constructive as it is mereley a different form of indoctrination.
We all have the gift of free choice but from personal experience I realise that most robotically follow the ideas of their elders and so called betters and these chains can only be broken by the individual them selves - This can be in considering another view point to the norm and finding proof through ones own experiences.
I often speak of one's inner guiding voice or gut feelings and trusting in that above what ever else we are told.
It is a difficult thing for people to step forward and go against the flow of socially accepted systems of belief.
To raise ones head above the parapit and face the hostility and mockery of others afraid to do so.
Non are perfect we are all on a path and a little love and compassion goes a long way for in truth all have a deep desire to be understood and loved for who they truly are and not what others want from them.

Offering my own 2¢ in response to some of your specific issues…

Originally posted by Ruffian
Okay, where is the documentation regarding the Illuminati not being dissolved in the late 1700's and surviving? Thus leading to its operation to engineer the French Revolution?

There is none. The proponents of that theory were Nesta Webster and Edith Starr Miller (aka Lady Queensborough), and they, in turn, took a fair amount from Robison. But both are heavily biased and not without flaws.

Is it true that a major faction within the Vatican (headed by the Pope) has always had mystical occult control of the Earth, and still does?

No. There may be 1.2 billion Catholics in the world, but there are about 1.1 billion followers of Islam and around 1.3 billion Christians of various denominations who aren't Catholic. And while I'm sure the Vatican libraries probably do contain a fair amount of lost mystical and occult scholarship, having that knowledge really doesn't give them power or control over anyone. That's not how the mysteries work.

Was the Illuminati created in the 1770's to be a mere arm of Roman Vatican tyrannical matrix of control?

No. Weishaupt was anti-Jesuit and the power players in the original Bavarian Illuminati were at odds with the church. Like many enlightenment era thinkers, there were many deists who believed in a higher power to explain some of that which they did not know, but rejected the idea of a "hands-on" God interfering with the lives of men.

Did the Vatican have control over the Rothschilds? If it does, then the banks are truly infiltrated, most notably the Bank of London and the US Federal Reserve.

If there are Jewish banking cabals, I doubt they needed the support of the Catholic church to thrive. I believe the two are probably separate.

Did the Vatican fund Hitler and Lenin?

I would say possibly Hitler, but I doubt that Lenin would have taken money from them. It goes against his ideology too much.

Does the Vatican have supreme authority over the new world order that culminated at the End of World War 2? Does that continue till today?

No and no. Isn't JFK still the only Roman Catholic US President? I'd say the Vatican never got a strong enough footing in American politics to have any control, nor have they had much success in other super power nations.

Originally posted by superluminal11
I'm sure they don't call themselves illuminati> However I do find it interesting the NSA has not changed the rerouting of that DNS. Maybe they left it up for kicks.

ILLUMINATI BACKWARDS

Anyone can buy that domain name and get it to redirect to NSA.gov or a website of their choosing, that is what this domain owner did

All you have to do is look on the other side of an american paper money.... big giant proof built in! They were so powerful they wanted everyone to know about it and make no doubt who was in charge.

Where are they now? Probably moved into big companies and things like that. The dark rooms and things changed to big board rooms at the top of tall buildings.

Think about it, big companies are totally the "secret societies" of today. What they do is kept private and who controls them is protected.

So, which company is the illuminati? well, probably a lot of them! They aren't the actual CEO's, they are the boards...the big stock holders... the ones behind the scenes that have the power to step in and tell the company how to act when it serves them (but, most the time just leaving the company alone to make more money for them until they need to use them for something).

Originally posted by Jenwithahat
All you have to do is look on the other side of an american paper money.... big giant proof built in! They were so powerful they wanted everyone to know about it and make no doubt who was in charge.

Not true. There's no evidence the Bavarian Illuminati ever used the all-seeing eye topping an unfinished pyramid as a symbol. That's a hoax started by William Guy Carr in his 1955 book Pawns in the Game. I defy you to find ANY source prior to that which tries to connect the Great Seal of the US with the Illuminati.

Really?? I always thought the eye was like the illuminati symbol, I guess I never looked into it enough! What was the old illuminati symbol then?

Hmm, I guess the people who made the designs for the money just had a creepy sense of humor? Or there had to be some meaning to it? No wait, artists are pretty creepy...so.... yea, probably the humor thing haha.

Originally posted by Jenwithahat
Really?? I always thought the eye was like the illuminati symbol, I guess I never looked into it enough! What was the old illuminati symbol then?

They probably used some of the same symbols the Freemasons have, and there's no one symbol that's exclusively theirs, but historically, the circumpunct, or a dot inside a circle, is the symbol best associated with them. (Though, again, not exclusive to them... that symbol is one of the earliest known to mankind... It's been used to signify the Sun; the Egyptians used it for Ra the sun god; elementally, it's Air; alchemically, it's Gold; etc...)

Hmm, I guess the people who made the designs for the money just had a creepy sense of humor? Or there had to be some meaning to it? No wait, artists are pretty creepy...so.... yea, probably the humor thing haha.

They probably did have a creepy sense of humor, but the great seal has nothing to do with that. The eye is the all-seeing eye of God—he who is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent—overseeing the workings of man in the building of a new nation. The thirteen steps are the 13 original colonies; the fact that the pyramid is unfinished means that the building of the nation had just begun. Pretty simple, actually.

In reply to the OP's title:-

YOU DON'T.

It was never meant to be real or discovered after the betrayal by the elites in the 17th century. The true Illuminati needs no recognition, fame or awards for its works.

Only the message is relevant and may it be understood by humanity, and that is all that counts. Nothing else.

Seeker, indeed. There is no "Illuminati" in the concept of the conspiracy theorists. But there IS "Illumination..." And those who have attained Illumination embrace anonymity for a strict purpose or they are not adhering to the principles of their achievement. To those who have a true understanding of the mysteries realize that the purpose of being is about "the Great Work."

Originally posted by Ruffian
reply to post by artistpoet

 

Maybe Jordan Maxwell is telling the truth. He did say he has researched for his whole life. I like someone who is well researched. Though he or anyone else could claim that the cult is real.

But I don't see this as that important. I see (western) society as mostly a bombardment of pleasures that keeps people to not seek higher meaning. I do see most comtemporary people have real good intentions, though they are blinded by the self centerdness of typical human character. Still, I remain to not preach my beliefs and let people be who and what they are. I spread words of wisdom subtley and not so often, not trying to infringe on them. I help people to gain some insight into truth rarely (we do need to provide adequate help to others, though not too much so as to ensure their own space and freedom of choice), when they choose to head on the path of self discovery then that will be their time.

edit on 26-9-2010 by Ruffian because: (no reason given)

Ruffian,

You say you are an honorary member of a hermetic society. If this is so...then you realize that no man can control or prevent another from the path of illumination. In the end, we all arrive together. Some simply take a different path to get there. What is yours?

When the student is ready, the teacher shall appear....