Obamacare goes into effect, side effects already appearing

reply to post by Styki


It's going to eat into their profits, which they don't want. Their supporters don't want it either because they're brainwashed into thinking that any gov't health care plan is bad.

reply to post by Heyyo_yoyo


factcheck.org...

Read this quote below:

Update, May 11: The health care bill that was signed into law by President Obama says criminal penalties will not apply to those who refuse to get coverage and refuse to pay the penalty tax. As we wrote in a March 2010 post on the IRS’ responsibilities, the law says on page 131: "In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.

Now, quit peddling the lie.

reply to post by whatukno


Whatukno, are you being deliberately obtuse? Honey, there will be no money returned to you when you retire. Everything you have paid in is already gone, and unless you retire tomorrow, that money will not be there when you do. The government has spent that money, and has no "means" to pay it back and no plans to do so either, so they are trying to find other solutions, so they say. Seven Thunders has very valid points here, and I am in agreement with his solution to Social Security Retirement. Can't say I agree with the other comments made by ST in regards to ObamaCare because IMO time will tell. I am sure there will be good things and bad things related to this new program, as there would be for any solution.

This doesn't mean I am in favor of ObamaCare, but I am not going to be vitriolic about it either. That said, the private retirement account idea sounds good to me since I now have to work until almost 75 years old to get my "full investment" back on my retirement, (I have fibromyalgia and severe arthritis. How the heck am I supposed to work until then? I am 43 now and working full time. I can't work another 32 years.) Even should I retire now and go on disability, the funds would run out before I hit retirement age. I have been paying taxes on earned income since I was 15 years old, and I filed my first tax return then because I felt it was my duty. Now what?

The money no longer exists. As fast as you pay it in from your paycheck is as fast as it is spent. In fact, the way our government works, it is spent years before it is even earned by you. I am afraid that if you spend the rest of your working life believing that there will be money there for you when you retire, you will be left destitute. It is guaranteed to happen if you do that. Better to personally and carefully choose your investments with that money and be cognizant of what is going on with it at all times. Then, if something goes wrong, you move the funds, etc.

reply to post by Ceriddwen


So you would trust the criminals on Wall Street with your retirement, or the criminals in the financial industry with your money rather than the government? Clue in buddy, Wall street would love that money, they would love to rip that money off! That would provide them with a cash cow that they can loot at any time and there would be absolutely NO RECOURSE!

Now, if what you say goes down and there is no SS when I retire, I can sue the federal government and get a helluva lot more back than I put in. But if I gave my money to Wall Street and they loose it, I would be left destitute just as you described except I would have no legal recourse.

Just ask the people who lost their retirement in 2008 how they feel about investing in Wall Street and how safe their investments were.

Ask the people who lost their assets with Madoff how they feel about investing.

Giving your money to Wall Street is about as safe as expecting a crackhead to guard your house while you are on vacation.

Hell, if the right people fart the wrong way the dow takes a huge hit. Investing is like gambling, the house always wins.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
Since I need to get a cat scan every 6 months for kidney stones, and I average one kidney stone procedure a year I will expect to declare bankruptcy or perhaps simply choose to die an agonizing death.

No wonder your insurance cost so much. AND ours because they use a expensive test on you
A CT scan for kidney stones?????
The standard test for kidney stones is a ultrasound.

Why are they doing a $2000+ test when a simple $50 test will do the same thing.

social security IS SOLVENT.....
the gov't has traded treasury bonds for the cash, those treasury bonds draw interest, and that interest is more than enough to pay for the program!! some would rather just default on those treasury bonds though....
the people should be blasting the gov't for their stupid and very expensive policies and the social security system!!
heck it probably paid for a few of you younger folks to have homes, heat, healthcare, and food...ya know, all those good things in life, some of which those who will be entering retirement soon have gone without most of of their lives!

and well....I am sure that obamacare has everything to do with the current increase in the cost of healthcare and the crappy economy, high unemployment rate, falling value of the dollar, well, that has nothing whatsoever to do with it at all..........
the fact of the matter is that the cost of healthcare has made it so that we the people can't afford it, our state and local gov'ts can't afford it, and the federal gov't can't afford it!!! that "best in the world" healthcare system with it's $400 pills, $3000 insurance deductables, and $200,000 operations is just an all out joke! and the taxpayer is providing over 50% of the revenue going into the healthcare industry in my area!!!
why is it so high?? I mean, most of the developed world is providing adequate care to ALL of their citizens at a fraction of the cost! most of use aren't paying for those $200,000 operations, the insurance companies aren't paying that much, it isn't getting paid!! it's just there on the books, it's there our credit records, it's there on the bill collector's records for them to reference when they call use a half a dozen times a month! heck there's a predatory lending business that's grown big and strong feeding off of peoples medical debt! and that debt is probably being recreated into the little poker chips on wall street much like the subprime was and being being pawned around the world as AAA, when anyone with half a brain could figure out that a person holding a ten dollar an hour job just isn't gonna pay off a $250,000 medical debt for a simple proceedure that if he went to any other country he could have gotten taken care of for $5,000!

obamacare's biggest fault is that it didn't do squat to reign in this insanity! it just says that ya, it will make us all pay for it, don't worry, the customers will be there! only there is no way that we can!!
our biggest fault is that we will continue to use this system, rack up the bills feeling that "we have to", after all life is so precious, right...our health is most important....even if we end up dealing with a massive debt that we could sink every penny that comes our way in for the rest of our lives and still not have it paid off!!!

instead of worrying about obamacare, and how it is affecting your health insurance, one should be worrying about just who wants the american people so far into debt.....AND WHY!!!

reply to post by whatukno

Now, if what you say goes down and there is no SS when I retire, I can sue the federal government and get a helluva lot more back than I put in.

Bwahahahaa!

Surely you jest!. Please get in line with the other 300 million Americans and wait your turn to 'sue the feds'.

reply to post by mishigas

Surely you jest!. Please get in line with the other 300 million Americans and wait your turn to 'sue the feds'

1) there isn't only one federal judge in the United States.

2) not every single American is suing the federal government at the exact same time

Nice try, but don't lie.

reply to post by dawnstar


Absolutely WRONG! President Lyndon Baines Johnson and the Democrat Congress and Senate put all deductions for SS into the general fund and it's payed out to retirees out of the General Fund. There is NO investment of those deductions into the bond market even though it was part of the agreement. There is NO SS fund in the government budget other than a notation of the probable total needed to service the retirees!

History of SS in America

1968


Zindo

Originally posted by OmiOra
Healthcare overall would be more managable to afford for all americans if it wasn't for hospitals and doctors.

Say you go to the ER....ever notice the doctor sees you two times the whole time if you are lucky and it's for 2 minutes....than he may visit the other people...but out of the 3-4 hours you wait he/she spends 3+ hours sitting at the desk. You are charged by how long you are there...there is Fraud but the Insurance companies are forced to hike prices to keep up with paying for your bills so doctors can do nothing. I was in the ER with my girlfriend one night...there were 2 other patients....I walked out of her room to get a drink and sitting in the little desk in the unit were the nurses and doctors playing cards...The government really needs to press on the medical business to stop frauding people....bc it's not just the insurance companies.

AMEN !! My wife is an R.N., she was telling me about something the other night that was a perfect example of waste in the medical field. When a patient is given several injections a night she has to use a new vial every time. Even though they are multiple dose vials, she HAS to throw it away and get a fresh one. We're not talking about giving different patients the same medicine out of the same vial, THAT I could understand. Same person, same med. A lot of these meds are expensive, several hundred per dose and the bill goes up FAST with that kind of waste.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
side effects already appearing]

I like how that was worded! Side effects.

Parts of Obamacare are good. Most of it is bad and some is even unconstitutional.
Mostly it's UNSUSTAINABLE. I'll say it again .... UNSUSTAINABLE.
Listen to people who survived Nazi Germany.
They'll tell ya' that they had great health care BEFORE Hitler nationalized it.
Then it was a conveyor belt kind of health care .. and what care you got was pretty bad.

Saw an interview with a woman who went through that.
She moved to America when she was young .. after the war.
She says Obamacare comes too close to what she saw happening in Germany.

(Nationalized the car industry there ... and banks ... and health care .... sound familiar??)

Originally posted by ANNED
A CT scan for kidney stones????? The standard test for kidney stones is a ultrasound. Why are they doing a $2000+ test when a simple $50 test will do the same thing.

WRONG. I have kidney stones and have had one (4 mm ... YIKES!!) pass.
Ultrasounds can't find everythng and see the tubes well when the stones are moving.
XRAY is what has to be used. It's also quicker when there are severe pain issues involved.

Originally posted by Styki
This bill isn't forcing the insurance companies to cover 25 million "deadbeats", it's forcing the "deadbeats" to go out and buy insurance. I am going to go ahead and switch the term "deadbeats" with the uninsured. Forcing the uninsured to buy health insurance isn't going to raise premiums.

It'll raise TAXES when the 'deadbeats' can't afford the insurance that the government forces them to buy. Then all us taypayers will have to foot the bill through higher taxes in order to cover those who can't afford to buy it. It's the law ... it must be bought ... right?

See where this is going? Redistribution of wealth ... etc etc

reply to post by FlyersFan


Who do you think is paying for these people right now? We are not letting people just die in the streets in the US are we? My uninsured neighbor recently found himself in the emergency room with a bill for $18,000 he could not afford. Do you know who paid for him to get treated in emergency? TAXPAYERS.

The doctors told him flat out that a little preventative care much earlier on would have saved about $17,000.

So as it has been, my wealth had been redistributed to pay for expensive emergency care. What you are saying is that instead I might only be on the hook for $1000 in insurance? OK!

You know, upon reading this thread I wasn't going to say anything, but after a few comments, I have too.
Guess what folks. IM FROM SOCIALIST CANADA.
Sometimes, I believe Americans really don't look into history when it comes to current events.
It also seems like they "close door" syndrome, meaning as soon as they got into good health care, they disregarded everyone elses health, and would rather have no one else receive any attention, yet if they didn't have healthcare I am sure there perceptions might change.
Put simply, you guys are stupid, sorry. But the fact you guys have not forced your government to pay for it for you, and have an equality standard for everyone, means you are greedy and relative to a Nazi.
YOU PEOPLE SPEND TRILLIONS KILLING PEOPLE, SOMETIMES EVEN YOUR OWN PEOPLE.
YOU SPEND BILLIONS! ARRESTING YOUR OWN CITIZENS! GOD FORBID, YOU SPEND SOME MONEY HEALING PEOPLE AND HELPING YOUR OWN FELLOW MAN, LEGAL OR NON LEGAL.
Yeah sure I have to wait a few hours at the emergency, but I have only ever had minor ailments, and the reason you wait is because of the people with serious injuries being taken care, which I will gladly wait and PAY FOR.
You people make me sick. Go kill some more arab babies and flaunt your rifles in your dumb founded pride.

reply to post by tribaltrip


While I appreciate your opinion and agree with a good portion of it, did you have to bring the other matters that are obviously something you are passionate about into the mix? It wasn't necessary and the United States Government isn't a fair representation of the American Citizens any more than you are a fair representation of your country. Let's keep the issue to the topic at hand without the disparagement and and cutting remarks. No need to get personal, as we hadn't gotten personal for the most part, until your post.

I am enjoying this debate and would like it to keep going.

ETA that it strikes me as really awful that our government isn't a fair representation of who we are as the American people, but darn it if that isn't the truth. Say what you will about our government and how they are elected by us, etc, but when presented with options that are unpalatable you choose the lesser of the evils. It disgusts me how far we the people have let this get, and now our hands are tied in so many ways, so don't think it is just the rest of the world who are disgusted. The American people in large part, despite so many cultural, philosophical, and other differences, band together in unity when it is truly needed and are good hard working people. We hate our own government and I don't personally know many people who don't want major changes. Please, don't hate the people as a majority, hate the leaders. I would say this about every country in the world, I think.

Originally posted by The Sword
I will never understand the conservative mindset, which supports rape by health insurance companies in the name of a "free market".

The problem is that either way you work it you'll be raped by the health insurance companies. This is not the same form of government health care that is available in other countries. This system will not work because it gives the insurance companies all the power.

This should no longer be an issue of liberal vs. conservative. It is an issue of big business and corporate greed vs. the people.

By the way, I am a liberal. I voted for Obama. I think his health care would be a joke but I can't laugh at it.

Originally posted by tribaltrip
YOU PEOPLE SPEND TRILLIONS KILLING PEOPLE, SOMETIMES EVEN YOUR OWN PEOPLE.
YOU SPEND BILLIONS! ARRESTING YOUR OWN CITIZENS! GOD FORBID, YOU SPEND SOME MONEY HEALING PEOPLE AND HELPING YOUR OWN FELLOW MAN, LEGAL OR NON LEGAL.
Yeah sure I have to wait a few hours at the emergency, but I have only ever had minor ailments, and the reason you wait is because of the people with serious injuries being taken care, which I will gladly wait and PAY FOR.
You people make me sick. Go kill some more arab babies and flaunt your rifles in your dumb founded pride.

I'm getting off topic here but I just want to point out that your government also has troops in Afghanistan.

Notice how I didn't say "you?" It's because I know that you are not complicit with your government.

I am not complicit with my government either. It does what it wants regardless of the people.

We're all human beings here no matter what our nationality. Does any group of people deserve that kind of abuse? How about a constructive argument, one that doesn't bash the people of an entire nation.

Government owes today 13.5 Trillion.
Government is on the hook for 200 Trillion.

Do you actually understand this folks? Where are they going to be able to tax enough to keep the ponzei scheme known as the Federal gubmint going? If you took every dime that is created in the US for the next 25 years, you would still not have enough to pay off the debt.

Does ANYONE understand this yet?

Look in the near future for the nationalization of resources to "supposedly" pay off the debt.

THAT is what you should be watching for.

There is no way the US is even going to last another 2 years to get to the ACTUAL implementation of this travesty.

Keep bickering, history repeats itself once again.

SOMEONE mentioned that we should wonder why the gubmint is systematically bankrupting this country.

BUT NOOOOOOOO. I want my free healthcare. I want my free welfare. I want........I want.........I want.

Now, I did not know that we had a 2 year olds discussion forum here.

Why don't we just pay doctors less so that insurance companies are unnecessary, and we can pay for medical expenses entirely out of pocket? After all, doctors should be in that profession for the good of mankind, not solely for the wealth. If a doctor messes up, no malpractice insurance either. If he was found negligent by a court, then he'll be sued into bankruptcy. Would put a lot more accountability where it belongs.

That's just my two cents.