Muslims do NOT care if we burn the Koran! They care about THIS!

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

This is totally ignoring the fact it's THIER HOMELAND that WE invaded! We shot first! They only attacked you because we are killing their families in THEIR nation!

except that once again you are ignoring the fact that we didnt invade them until AFTER they flew planes into one of the largest cities on the planet, which happen to be on US soil......

They attacked us because they dont like our westernized culture, anyone who has been over seas or has done any amount of OBJECTIVE research into the ideology of Islam knows this.....

Sure not all Muslims are guilty of this, but this is the agenda that the extremist push....

Its not just us, they dont like ANYONE who isnt Muslim or doesnt subscribe to sharia......

That is why they attack everyone......

This has been going on for centuries, youre just more aware of it now because of the events of 9/11 this is nothing new.

I served over seas, and I dont hate muslims,me and my buddies that served, arent out making plans to destroy muslim organizations.

Your post is full of disinformation and propaganda on the dangers of the American soldier coming home from over seas.......

One problem here...Iraqis didn't fly planes into our buildings. Also, I see you, like many, are still regurgitating the war chants of the Bush regime; basically: "They hate us because we are free...." etc. No, they hate us because we have been meddling over there, particularily, in Saudi Arabia, which ironically, is an Ally country...with some of the most radical muslim beliefs anywhere. And where were most if not all the hijackers from?

You know, it is like a giant switch is thrown....and all the sheep start to chant the same old rhetoric of sound bites in these lame pro-war arguments.

Edit to add: Saudi Arabia has a regime that is at least as corrupt as Saddom's, especially in terms of how it treats its citizens.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Truly shocking. What a barbaric people.
Why can't everyone be more like decent God fearing Christians.
Books, people whatever you have...burning is much more, efficient, sanitary and warming on a cold night than stoning people, which just litters the place with rocks and corpses. Sheesh.

Christians: Pyromaniacs of God

You're kidding me right?
Don't be so quick to pat yourself on the back by your extremely weak retort.
I can understand your cartoonish depiction of the said "pyromaniacs" from the Middle Ages, but what's with the screen shot from a foreign movie?

Sure Christians were guilty of similar atrocities hundreds of years ago but why are you so quick to sympathyze with a group of people that won't hesitate in stoning you to death or cutting your head off, just because?

Your sentiments are like those of the French 15-20 years ago, and the Brits just slightly less.
Wake up before it's too late.

reply to post by Big Raging Loner


twas it not a false news report from somewhere that kicked that off? and what is the Balfour? if not mistaken has'nt the UK and American governing peoples said they will protect Israel and is'nt that part of the agreement even?

reply to post by Alxandro
Are you seriously trying to suggest that there been NO atrocities committed in the name of, or by Christians in the last two hundred years?
If you are wrong about that (which you are) perhaps your other statement that “all Muslims would cut your head off or kill you, just because?” is also, well, false. Perhaps you mistyped?

Most religions, but especially the three abrahamic, seem to have lots of extremists who would lie, incite and kill in order to prove their godliness to god.
Good job ATS members deny ignorance, ay Alxandro.

Originally posted by Holly N.R.A.
S&F for you...

These "brave" soldiers takin' care of business when they are done in Iraq...are comin' home and guess what....the Muslim' s won't be the only ones that will need to keep an eye out for what these "men" are capable of.

Here's another one for ya...how many of them do you think will become police officers or fire fighters when they return home...two professions that do want them military men workin' for 'em.

These guys need HELP....big time....they will always look at those that do not agree with them as the enemy...doesn't matter what ethnicity it will be...

SAD...

~holly

Where do you live ? Police Men and Fire Fighters ? yeah right...get in line and take a number for those jobs....
They are closing down fire houses and police stations everywhere, you haven't heard ???

reply to post by RizeorDie


"...many new members on this website are more brainwashed than the average sheep on the street. reading all the anti religion threads. people throwing insults and refuse to listen. spreading disinformation. what is the point of this website then?"

Yes, I agree with above statement. I believe it has to do with what has been coined "the dumbing down of Americans". I have provided a link below to a very interesting article (IMHO) that talks about this "dumbing down" and what they believe is the catalyst for it (Narcissistic Personality Disorder).

www.mooreexposed.com...

reply to post by joewalker

...been NO atrocities committed in the name of, or by Christians...

I like the way you phrased your statement with the perfect avenue of escape, a perfect way out, you must be studying to become a lawer.
But not so fast, I can't let you get away with that.

Just because a person, who happens to be "Christian", commits a modern day atrocity, doesn't mean it qualifies as act commited in the name Christ.

All atrocities committed by the modern day radical Muslim have been commited in the name of Allah.
You can't deny that.

Sure, everyone knows the Middle Ages were the days of Christians gone wild, but by defending actions of a group of people that still seem to be living in the Middle Ages you are basically suggeting it's ok to kill the infidel, which might even include you.

In response to the second video from the OP
I was in Fallujah Iraq in 2004 when that mosque was blown up I have the same video attached to my unit video. That mosque was bombed because people where in it trying to kill Marines, not because it was a mosque. I cannot speak for other units or other branches or other countries armed services but I cannot recall a single instance in which we dropped a 500lb bomb on a mosque because America hates Muslims, I have seen multiple mosques that not only harbored kidnapped local leaders, weapons chaches, fake ID operations, IED making shop, and one time a murdered body guard of the Sheik of Ramadi ( he was more like a mayor). My point here is, is that we can all agree that the callous waste of human life and the emotional strain of these wars which some may or may not agree with is atrocious. That being said I can relate that muslims dont like there places of worship blown up, I am sure Christians dont like there churches being burnt etc etc etc, but then again maybe they shouldnt agree to let insurgents use there place of worship as a place to build weapons and kill period, even if they disagree with the war. It would have been simpler to just make it aware to allied troops that insurgents intend on doing and maybe their place wouldn't have been blown up. It is these reasons however that fanatical islamic terrorists and insurgents use mosques, it helps them brainwash the next generation of hate fueled suicide bombers. "see look America hates Islam they blew up the mosque" then never tell them why but I am ssure most people on here can put all that together. I saw someones signiture here on ATS that reads "Let peace be spilt" I dont know whos it is but such a great suggestion.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Maybe so.

they should remember the old saying.

Dont start none, wont be none.

reply to post by Alxandro


WE had a Reformation several hundred years ago....they still havent. They're still in the 6th century.

So when was the last time Christians burned a witch?

When was the last time the muzzies stoned a woman because SHE was raped?

Even though I'm very "pagan friendly", I would through my lot with the Christians a helluva lot quicker than these neanderthals.

Havent heard of christians threatening lives because a bible or church was burned....and I'm in the "bible belt".

I would like to make a few remarks with regard to those who give voice to the argument that American Foreign Policy is the cause of Muslim outrage. My opinion is of the mindset of a superior "state of mind". One need only look at the difference in the cultures that we can conclude that some tree's bear fruit.

Can you not trace Muslim outrage from incident to incident like a lattice of blood-stained, troublemakers. No more a threat to the human race now than before. Much like the Hyena was chased to the edges of shadow, bitter and humiliated they always yield the night. The Lion has little regard for the hyena, nobly caries out his ways. If however, a Hyena shows signs of "false" confidence brought about by numbers and tries to molest the "tribe"., many Hyena must die as the Lion rages for order.

They Arabs are in reality "Hyena". A bitter people gone mad with rage. My ancestors of the "white" kind faced monsters, disease, all kinds of #. They act like its everybodies fault that they CHOOSE to live like animals. Content to rape their wives, rape others wives knowing she won't speak a word, marry children, commit murder for the sake of their god, and run about like cross-eyed fanatics. Quite frankly its sort of entertaining to watch the likes of 2 bit lames gather in their unpaved streets like frenzied "ORC" chanting in prayer-like rhyme for the death of a country thousands of miles away claiming outlandish threats. None of which they can even do to their sworn enemy who sits merely as a neighbor. In reality, you can even take out 2 or 3 U.S cities. It would matter little by means of relative destruction. In fact I hope you do. For then we loose maybe 2 or 3 million people. Out of 300 million. It provides us the opportunity to send you ALL to meet yourselves the maker. That way our soldiers can come home and take a shower to clean themselves from the filth they must feel fighting dogs. Simple maggots that crave mercy

In other words, it is not the natural children who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son."
Not only that, but Rebekah’s children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad — in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls — she was told, "The older will serve the younger." Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

You can't win because you were born loosers. Apologize to United States, Thank us, Say sorry I'm just a bitch, Plant some #ing tree's or flowers. Unbelievable that you dogs shroud or kill anything beutiful. And quit barking all the time or we'll all # you up.

reply to post by godamajin


Can you or anyone else show me one time when America did not have blood on its hands? America was founded on the dead bodies of innocent people. America grew and prospered through the exploitation of innocent people. America is the cause of death for many innocent people in the middle east for decades now.

America wants to cry "Why do people hate us?"

Grow up, America and deal with the bed you made.

Ive been following this thread for a while now and I felt like adding my own comments on here.

I'm wondering if the majority of people who are stating facts and making comments about the ME region and its majority Muslim inhabitants are aware that none of what you state as fact can really be considered a fact unless you actually have lived in the ME region, have encountered the people living there, and analyzed their mindsets from an objective point of view? (whether this point of view exists or not is not the subject of my debate here)

Well I have. Ive spent 25 years of my life there. And yes I am Muslim.

Now let me confirm some of the facts here. A lot of educated Muslims, that being normal human beings who have some form of higher education in the ME do not regard Quran burnings as something to react about. They do get sad tho...as it is it happens to be a holy book and it means a lot to us.

Second, there are groups of extremists who live a cult like existence within almost all of the ME countries and their agenda is merely political. Simply put, they're sick and tired of US or what they understand as West, butting into their countries politics and shaping the region to their will. As an educated person I know that there are always two sides to a coin. And if these groups had as much power as the US did, they'd probably would do the same to you and everyone else. Human nature does not change. Power does corrupt.

Third, the ME region is extremely complex. The history, the culture, the languages, the religions, the different sects in the religions are all mixed and mashed together like a soup of sorts and its a tight space to have so much variety in if you ask me. So its a volatile region, it always has been. This means that blanket statements about Muslims in this region will be totally off the mark. Different groups have different opinions about everything. But there is ONE thing that is common in the majority of Muslims in the ME, and that they literally despise the Jewish occupation and feel much grief about countries like US supporting them. And although the educated Muslims (and by education I mean education into their OWN religion) would never support the killing of innocent people, there are those who don't mind, because they feel like an eye for an eye is warranted.

Fourth, Ive never heard of Muslim terrorism until 9/11. No sane person considers Hamas a bunch of terrorists because their war is always with the people who occupy their land. Even if their tactics are unethical and wrong, people will never see them as terrorists. Islamic terrorism is like, an oxymoron for the majority of Muslims in the world. Americans blame us for not speaking out enough about our dislike for the existence of such form of terrorism but truth be told, we don't believe its ours at all. We refuse to believe it. We're in shock that a person who calls himself a Muslim would actually go blowing himself up when the religion itself says yer going to hell if you committ suicide. Forget killing innocent people along with you.

Last but not least, when I watch people on here go back and forth and attempt to understand the people of the ME region, I actually feel sorry for them because it took me a long time to understand them myself, and the ignorance of Americans who only bothered to look the region up on the map after 9/11 is seriously disheartening yet, sort of naively funny too.

i have followed this thread from neutral point and saw two sides of the story and i must share my opinions

I can understand the pain and sorrow that ordinary USA citizen can feel about 9/11 and i would want retaliation if someone demolished the center of my city but i can't swallow the idea of war on terror.
Who are you fighting with?
Muslims? (why then do you have muslim allies?)
Bin laden's home country? (you say you would invade Canada if some ill minded Canadian flew into WTC)
imaginary enemies?
your government says that Afghanistan is evil? (i say that with my limited knowledge that there are far more evil countries )
All of this is war organized and run by corporations and money lobby. with no wars what would manufacturers of weapons, medicines, banks and all the crap you can think, do ?

I have been to few Muslim countries (Tunisia, Morocco, Egypt), went to school with Syrian fellow, living with many Muslims in my country and i can say for sure that big angry hate-filled Muslim agenda to conquer Christian world presented by western media is load of bull****.

People there care only about being invaded or not. leave them live and they will not care about USA.

I was welcomed (as a proud catholic) in every Muslim country i mentioned. people living there are good and honest.
I have not encountered single offense toward my faith. instead i spent many hours discussing differences.
But for instance in England i had few protestant insults.

Stop fighting with them, take your soldiers and weapons from their countries, leave them to exist and you will see that they don't care about USA one second in a day.

How can you say you follow the Bible and go to offensive war?

And for other side that attacks soldiers

Being ex soldier i must inform you peace-lovers that soldiers don't send themselves anywhere except canteen. You follow orders from politicians. You gave oath that you would defend your country but you must follow orders from pigs that YOU the people, chose. So be fair, honest and full of respect for your veterans because they had your flag on their arm and these are people that would give a life to protect you.
But it's easier to spit on war veteran than on president and government that , I repeat, YOU chose?

reply to post by neformore


I would disagree that what you psoted is the story. You are leaving out a LOT of other incidents that influenced events going back. What you have essentially done is dumped the entire issue into the lap of the US and to a lesser degree the UK.

At what point do people take charge of their own affairs? We get bashed because we send troops to place Police all over the world. We do this because no one else will, which again falls under the wrongly perceived moral obligation. Dollars to donuts that if we dont intervene, people will complain just as much.

I find it intresting how quickly people overlook our involvement during the Yugoslavia issue, where we and European countries deployed troops to prevent ethnic clensing against muslims. Our involvement in defending Kuwait and removing Iraqi forces. That war was sanctioned by the UN with support of arab ountries, who provided material / manpower to assist.

Why did they do this? Because if they did not, chances are they were next on the countries to be conquered list. If the United States did not get involved to remove Iraqi troops, would the rest of the world make a stand and do it on their own? That answer would be lost in all the complaining about how we jsut let it happen and did nothing to prevent it.

Humanitarian mission to Somalia to prevent innocent people from being killed at the behest of the adhoc government / groups in place..

People were going nuts over darfur, yet no one wanted to send troops. In the end African peace keepers were deployed, but its not working out that well, and now getting worse with a possiblity of the country being split into 2 different countries.And again, we get blamed for allowing this to happen.

Its no secret we have strategic intrests in the Gulf - namely Oil. The issue is people are not doing research and just assume the bulk of our oil comes from the middle east. It doesnt:

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries - August 2008

June 2010 Import Highlights: August 30, 2010
Monthly data on the origins of crude oil imports in June 2010 has been released and it shows that four countries exported more than 1.00 million barrels per day to the United States (see table below). The top five exporting countries accounted for 64 percent of United States crude oil imports in June while the top ten sources accounted for approximately 87 percent of all U.S. crude oil imports. The top five sources of US crude oil imports for June were Canada (2.197 million barrels per day), Saudi Arabia (1.348 million barrels per day), Mexico (1.066 million barrels per day), Nigeria (1.066 million barrels per day), and Venezuela (0.850 million barrels per day). The rest of the top ten sources, in order, were Iraq (0.630 million barrels per day), Russia (0.437 million barrels per day), Angola (0.425 million barrels per day), Colombia (0.387 million barrels per day), and Algeria (0.375 million barrels per day). Total crude oil imports averaged 10.145 million barrels per day in June, which is an increase of 0.523 million barrels per day from May 2010.

Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum in June, exporting 2.733 million barrels per day to the United States, which is an increase from last month (2.527 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum was Saudi Arabia with 1.353 million barrels per day.

So now the question becomes why do we do what we do in the Middle East. Its not soley for US intrests. It gaurantees an uninterupted energy supply to the rest of the world as well.

I am all for bringing our troops home and shutting down world wide bases. The onlything it will accomplish though is the rest of the world complaining we arent do enough to protect their intrests.

The History involving Islam, The Persians, crusades etc goes back long before North America was found. Today its pretty much the sme game, but different dealers. The issues go waaay back, and it wont be fixed overnight, if at all.

We, the USA, are not 100 percent responsible for issues in the Middle East. There is plenty of blame to go around for the rest of the planet. People seem to ignore the part citizens in the countries we "meddle" in were working wtih our Government to advance an agenda that is not soley the US's doing. It takes 2 to tango with these policies. Again laying 100 percent blame on our doorstep is a misrepresentation of the facts.

Hypothetical: We remove our presence from the middle est as demanded by the extremists, and by our own citizens here at home. The extremists overthrow the mor moderate government in that region. Since we, and Europe, and most of Afrika are not Islamic, but infadels, it wont bother their governments one bit to put the screws to these places. They will reopen the flow provided Islamic rule is put in place (these are stated goals of extremists groups).

The economy comes to a halt, since their is no oil for manufacturing. With no manufactoring, business run short on supplies, creating a mass ripple effect world wide. No work, no jobs, food lines, then food shortages.

Now what?

I gues in the end Its just easier to throw rocks at the largest target, gauranteeing a "hit" to make a point, while skewing the facts.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Muslims are pissed because we are bombing their cities to bits and killing civilians, including women and children who are INNOCENT.
The fact we are BOMBING cities full of innocent people!
That is the REAL issue. That is why Muslims are pissed! Duh!

What more can I say?

So Muslims are pissed because we are bombing their cities to bits and killing civilians, including women and children who are INNOCENT?

So shouldn't' we be pissed too because they are bombing our cities to bits and killing civilians, including women and children who are INNOCENT? Heard of suicide bombers? Death squads brandishing AK 47s and grenades that murdered 170 innocent civilians including children in Mumbai last year? Or the thousands killed in suicide attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan? Yes! They were innocent civilians too of all nationalities.

So your getting pissed off is just a one sided opinion! I'm pissed too at the Muslims who are responsible for killing and maiming thousands of innocent people. And the carnage continues....

reply to post by Anthony1138


Do you have any sources? Lets start with this ONE line item... America STOLE Iraqs oil.. Please provide proof and sources.. Otherwise.. All your doing is spreading propaganda.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

We didn't have bases in Saudi Arabia nor in Kuwait prior to 9-11??

Perhaps not, I don't remember now; but some Arab and moslem nations had troops involved in Desert Shield and Storm such as Egypt, Syria, even Bangladesh. I myself remember speaking with Egyptians who were waiting for the off. They were resentful of Saddam's attitude toward other arab nations. I can't now remember the terminiology they used, but the very common English equivalent involves zoophilia.

King Fahd requested American support after the Kuwait invasion, IIRC.

We didn't get involved in conflicts like the Russian invasion in Afghanistan and funded the Mujahideen??

Yes... that wasn't our invasion. The involvement was war by proxy. we used them. Also, the Muj were predominantly Afghans who were freedom-fighters; the Taliban on the other hand, aren't - they're a collection of moslems who want oppression. Go figure. Although I don't believe it myself, it can be argued that supporting the Muj was an act of supporting freedom. That isn't invasion.

Oh, and neither the Americans, or Nato per se, invaded Afghanistan after 9/11. We supported the overthrow of the Taliban, but never invaded.

The CIA never used clandestine tactics to overthrow the democratically elected President of Iran?

Yeah. Granted.

The majority of the Middle East were not British and French Colonies?

The moors in Spain, the Turks / Ottomans in the Balkans... Bolton...

Someone else said they're caught in the middle here. I agree with them.

These pathetic arguments will be demolished one by one. You cannot stop the Truth. Everyone with a brain can do their own research and determine that what I am presenting is the cold hard facts of the matter.

Anyone with a brain can present 'facts' to further their cause. Knowing dates in history is dealing with facts. Having inimpeachable documentary evidence is facts. The rest of history is interpretation.

I was merely pointing out that the Middle Easterners typically hate the West due to thousands of years of barbaric invasions that we conduct regularly.

And you guys come and try to justify it. Epic Fail.

Hardly. Religions generally antagonise the others because they are from the heart and everyone wants to feel that what they give their heart to is Right. The crusades were an abomination, even Suez was desperation. It's give and take.