Revelation; The seven churches (have been promised)

In the Book of Daniel, the Gospel of Matthew and the Revelation of John, the "Son of man" is described as coming "on the clouds of heaven", which is a description of the Vision Itself.

Thus, the only people who have any real Knowledge of the Revelation received by John are those who have, specifically, received that Vision.

And anyone who attempts to 'interpret' or 'explain' the Revelation of John without having received that Revelation is, in fact, claiming to have received a Revelation; whether or not he or she is aware of that.

Which makes the following song by The Rolling Stones quite appropriate:

www.youtube.com...

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
No Knowledge of Genesis 1:27, 2:7., Chapter 3, especially, vs. 4-7 and 24 and
Chapter 16:13 &14. Check.

All right, let's go through these one by one.
I'm not interested in your Gnostic sources or the Koran, which have no relevance for the understanding of Christian teaching.
So we can begin at the beginning of the book, with Genesis.

I now challenge you to demonstrate that these passages in Genesis support your teaching.
Not just SAY they support your teaching, which is all you've been doing so far.
DEMONSTRATE it.
This involves looking at the actual words in the text and showing how the words in the text match up to the words in your claims. Then we can consider the text together, and see what the result is.

Anyone can SAY; "the Bible supports me". The real achievement is to demonstrate it, using the words on the page.
That is what I am challenging you to do. We can then go through Isaiah, Ezekiel, and the teaching of Jesus in the same way.

Another symbol of the Vision of the "Son of man" is the "Horse With No Name".

The lyrics of the following song:

www.youtube.com...

can be understood as providing additional information about the change in consciousness brought about by the receiving of this Vision.

The picture of the American Indians on the cover probably indicates that this is the way in which certain American Indian traditions describe the Vision of the "Son of man".

But this is also what is meant by the "Thunderbird" of other American Indian traditions.

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
In the Book of Daniel, the Gospel of Matthew and the Revelation of John, the "Son of man" is described as coming "on the clouds of heaven", which is a description of the Vision Itself.

Thus, the only people who have any real Knowledge of the Revelation received by John are those who have, specifically, received that Vision.

Anyone who makes the claim to have recived such a "vision of the Son of Man" is nothing but a "dreamer of dreams" as defined in Deuteronomy ch13.
Or, in the words of the Beatles;
"He's a real nowhere man,
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody"

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
In the Book of Daniel, the Gospel of Matthew and the Revelation of John, the "Son of man" is described as coming "on the clouds of heaven", which is a description of the Vision Itself.

At least get the words right. With clouds.

Revelation 1:7 (King James Version)

7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


Daniel 7:13 (King James Version)

13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

I simply REFUSE to believe in any God Who talks only to Jews, only to Christians or only to Arabs.

In fact, the Vision of the "Son of man" is symbolized in Greek mythology as Pegasus, as well as the caduceus: two serpents winding around a winged staff, representing the three currents of kundalini.

This is the esoteric significance of Jesus being crucified 'between two thieves at the place of the skull'.

Those who have the ears to hear, let them listen.

This is also a segment of the dance of the woman in the white dress in Michael Flatley's Stolen Kiss, in which she crosses her arms across her chest and makes a 'serpent' motion first to the right and then to the left of Michael Flatley at time segment 2:22-2:28.

Those who have the eyes to see...watch the video:

www.youtube.com...

Michael Cecil

reply to post by Michael Cecil

I have challenged you to demonstrate that your cited Genesis passages support your teaching.
If you are capable of backing up your claims with rational discussion, please back them up.

PS Fear Not

reply to post by DISRAELI


Matthew 7:6

King James Bible

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

I wouldn't bring this up, but sometimes a wall is just that, a wall. Then again reading your posts and responses brings nothing but join to my heart and puts a very large smile on my face. I went back and stared your all your responses. Clearly you are dealing with someone who has no understanding and is completely misguided in every seance of the the Bible.

You sir have earned my respect, and my Bible quote my not apply because I and I'm sure others are gaining from your pearls!

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
I simply REFUSE to believe in any God Who talks only to Jews, only to Christians or only to Arabs.

My friend,

I do not think anyone has said that God speaks only to Arabs, Christians, and Jews, at least I haven't.

You speak in riddles my friend. By speaking in riddles, one puts himself up as if above his audience. It is a game of "Lets see if your weak pathetic mind can comprehend what I am trying to say." I know your riddles. I won't play the game, and I suspect everyone else grows weary of it too.

Therefore, I ask you as a Brother, speak plainly and tell us what you are trying to say. I am neither above you, nor below you, I AM right here with you.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by dthwraith

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

I wouldn't bring this up, but sometimes a wall is just that, a wall.

No, I'm not expecting to convince this gentleman.
But every response he makes exposes the vanity of his case, which is quite a useful thing to do.
Thank you for your support.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

I now challenge you to demonstrate that these passages in Genesis support your teaching.
Not just SAY they support your teaching, which is all you've been doing so far.
DEMONSTRATE it.

(sigh)

Such a comment merely demonstrates how little you really understand about what has been going on here.

I am not required to "demonstrate" anything.

Only theologians are required to "demonstrate" things.

Why?

Because they want to sell you their books; because they want you to pay their salaries, their pensions and their health insurance.

Keep your money. And I am not looking for followers.

My only responsibility for these past 34 years is to inform people of these Revelations.

I have no responsibility to convince you that I am telling the Truth.

If you don't want to believe me...DON'T BELIEVE ME.

I DON'T CARE.

And the last thing I would want is you to become a follower of mine.

Do you have any idea whatsoever about the responsibilities that come with having followers?

Of course not.

Because that is what you are trying to do with all of your 'explanations' of the Revelation of John.

Do you realize that you bear an ethical responsibility for those who you have convinced of your lies?

Of course not.

You don't 'think' you are lying in the first place.

And, irrespective of what Jesus said, you are responsible for what you are doing even if you 'do not know what you are doing'.

Michael Cecil

reply to post by Michael Cecil


My friend,

The first time Man followed someone other than God, it did not turn out so good for him and his wife. So, I hope no one here is trying to attract followers. I thought we were just comparing notes. There is great blessing in sharing. I understand your message. I have from the beginning. It isn't your message, but the delivery that became toilsome.

Regardless, express it how you feel best. I see with eyes wide open.

I am interested in hearing about your revelation. Perhaps you have another thread on it? I don't believe your revelation should take precedence over the revelation of the original poster, that's all. Comparing notes is one thing. Usurping the topic, is another. It is unloving and disrespectful.

Anyway, I seem to be guilty of usurping the thread myself. So...

Judge not, Love ALL, be at peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

I don't believe your revelation should take precedence over the revelation of the original poster, that's all. Comparing notes is one thing. Usurping the topic, is another. It is unloving and disrespectful.

First of all, the original poster did not receive any revelation, by his own admission.

Secondly, you don't understand.

The Revelation of John has been my constant companion for almost 36 years.

I have easily spent hundreds or probably thousands of hours going over the Revelation of John word by word...by itself; that is, not for any purpose of understanding it in context with other Revelations.

It is almost as if the Revelation of John is my wife.

And Disraeli is touching my wife.

Not because he loves her.

But because he has ambitions to convince others that he 'understands' her. He is motivated by the desire for pleasure.

My goal here is not merely to destroy this thread.

My goal here is to stop Disraeli from touching my wife.

I don't want to read ONE MORE WORD of Disraeli's assertions that he 'understands' the Revelation of John.

You probably will not understand what I mean by this unless you are married.

Of course, this is not something that is within my control.

He may very well continue to do this until the Prophecies I have received are fulfilled.

THEN HE WILL STOP.

Michael Cecil

Whoa dude, its all good.

Put the book away. Step out for some fresh air.

Life is too short to dedicate so much of your life to a book.

Goodness Brother, Gods First commandment was Go forth and Multiply. You can't do that with a book if you get my meaning.

If the Revelation of John belongs to anyone, I would think it belongs to well, uh, John.

But, he was kind enough to share it with us ALL.

Therefore, we all have a right to interpret it. Even my own fumbling through it is my right.

Why? Because I am the Son of God too, duh.

All that aside, you can't get anyone to listen to you or give your perspective the time of day, when you first close out there own. What you give is what you receive.

You do not have to agree with any Man's version of the Truth. Your version is your own. Remember, do not listen to Man, they are liars.

In other words, God speaks to you just as he does to me. You listen to him, not me, and I listen to him, not you.

Comparing notes is called fellowship, and we are all family.

So, if you want to be taken seriously in this discussion, return the courtesy. Then we can all learn from each other.

Judge not, Love All, be at peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

With regards to the Vision of the “Son of man”, it is stated, in the following video, that “the air was full of sound”:

www.youtube.com...

In the following video:

www.youtube.com...

there is a representation of the sound of the phonetic tones which are experienced during the Vision of the “Son of man”.

Anyone who has received the Vision of the “Son of man” should be able to recognize the significance of this video.

Michael Cecil

If Swedenborg said he was getting information direct from Jesus, then Swedenborg was a liar.

"If a prophet arises among you, a dreamer of dreams...and if he says "let us go after other gods"...you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams." Deuteronomy ch13 vv1-3

Let us see here, what is a typical fake prophet?

- He makes alot of bold statements, sells a lot of books, is after money, claims himself to be a God etc etc.

Who was Swedenborg:

en.wikipedia.org...

He was a humble genius that enterred university at age 9, a great inventor with Master letters from about nine different professions, never married, son to a bishop, renounced all his fame, money and glory to work exclusively for 27 years with Jesus to interpret the whole bible and tell people about how judgment day would play out. He produced such a massive volume of scriptures from Jesus nobody can understand how one person could manage it.

Swedenborg learned Hebrew, Greek and a long list of other languages. He was precognic and three times proved his ability to the public, once when the Royal palace in Stockholm burned down and Swedenborg was in the UK telling everyone about it.

Emmanuel Swedenborg was a true prophet of Jesus and your words about him being a liar stands for themselves. He said himself he was the last prophet since nobody else was allowed to come later since it would risk interfering with the almighty incarnating down here.

At his deathbed he called for the least popular priest since he thought that priest likely was a more better person. He told the priest: "I have told truth and nothing but truth, and I could have said much more had the Lord permitted me to"....

Only a great man speaks such words.

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
It is almost as if the Revelation of John is my wife.
And Disraeli is touching my wife.
My goal here is not merely to destroy this thread.
My goal here is to stop Disraeli from touching my wife.
I don't want to read ONE MORE WORD of Disraeli's assertions that he 'understands' the Revelation of John.
Of course, this is not something that is within my control.

OK, let's drop the combativeness for a moment, and talk through some of the practicalities of the situation.
You need to understand, in the first place, that I cannot accept your claim to an exclusive relationship with Revelation. Nor will anyone else accept that claim. Nor will the book Revelation. It is said in Proverbs that Wisdom calls to all men, inviting them to come to her house. Similarly, Revelation, lke the rest of the Bible calls to all men.

I am working my way through Revelation because it is something I believe my God would want me to do. If anyone's going to be staking claims, I could point out that I began this series before you became a member of this forum- for ATS purposes, I was here first.

Next practicality; Your goal is unachievable. I am committed to this project, and the intention is to continue it until the end of the book has been reached. At present rate of progress, this will probably be at some stage in the spring. Until that point is reached, I am not going to stop.

Next practicality. Your tactics are achieving the exact opposite of what you want. You are not destroying this thread. You are extending its life. Every time you post a reply to this thread, the OP returns to the Recent Posts page for anything up to an hour and more people see it. When I last looked, this was the third longest thread that I have ever published, and that is partly your doing.

Next practicality; If your desire is that you should NOT READ my assertions, the only practical way you're going to achieve this is not to read them. Don't even look at the threads. Every time you respond, you give me the opportunity to make additional comments.
Although I don't think I've ever gone as far as claiming that I do understand Revelation. I think the most I've ever claimed is to be working towards understanding it. Hence the deliberate choice of opening line in every thread from the beginning- "I want to offer some thoughts".

So please understand. This project of mine is not going to go away.
And this thread is certainly not going to go away if you keep bumping it.
So think this through a little.

Originally posted by Gaussq

If Swedenborg said he was getting information direct from Jesus, then Swedenborg was a liar.

"If a prophet arises among you, a dreamer of dreams...and if he says "let us go after other gods"...you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams." Deuteronomy ch13 vv1-3

Let us see here, what is a typical fake prophet?

A false prophet, in the definition of Deuteronomy, is someone who says "let us go after other gods".
Even if his predictions come true- "if the sign or wonder which he tells you come to pass", he is still a false prophet if he departs from the teaching of the Biblical God.

reply to post by DISRAELI


You actually believe Jesus is content with Christianity´s development and the clergy??

If you were in his clothes, would you not tell the world truth about the corruption in Christianity and where church went wrong?

People put up a blanket over their eyes and say that(Swedenborg) could not have been Jesus speaking - without even checking the scriptures or checking if it makes sense or is credible...

Instead they take Jesus as some form of paralysed being, incapable of doing anything but sitting there in his heaven watching the complete decay of his teachings passively.

Are you not insulting Jesus?

Jesus told truth about his teachings and he chose Swedenborg as his prophet. It is natural and makes perfect sense to everyone, of course he wanted to show the world truth about his teachings before the end, and warn people not to be fooled by modern Christianity.

If Jesus tells you to go find the right way(Falun Dafa) before judgment day arrives because Jesus teachings have all been corrupted over time, what do you do? Shut your eyes hard and put plugs in your ears? Or decide to listen to his words and see where they lead you?

It is said the most pitiful people are the monks during the endtimes. They are good people but can not leave their old notions about their beloved favourite religion and realize what lies ahead of them. All orthodox religion is 2000 years old at least and completely irrecognizable by modern man. Of course new teachings must be given as a last chance for mankind to enlighten. That is why each one should read the book Zhuan Falun and then make his own judgment.


Jesus said it himself to Swedenborg, the only relationship left between him and church is the church spire, the whole body of the church has been immersed in water and nothing from the body(teachings) is visible anymore to anyone.

Enlightenment quality, each one enlightens to his level and predestination will matter.

reply to post by Gaussq


You didn't address me but I wanted to answer your question on who the kings of the east are. In the old testament, this was also prophesied by Zechariah

Zec 118Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and behold four horns.

19And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.

20And the LORD shewed me four carpenters.

21Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them, to cast out the horns of the Gentiles, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it.

The four carpenters are the kings of the east. They come to cast out the four horns which scattered the land of Judah. The four gentile kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Rome, Greece. Now this sounds like a good thing until you look at the whole picture.

God is always in control of things but he works through people. It's not a good thing to be part of the next four kingdoms to rule the material world. It is still outside of God's kingdom. The four kings are the next tools. God will use these next 4 the same way he used the 4 gentile ones.

Rev 17:17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Exactly which four kingdoms of the east the kings of the east belong to is uncertain but my guess would be Iran, Russia, China, Korea.

Rev 9:13And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

17And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths

The trumpet plagues were to refine the 3rd part of the earth whereas the vials are reserved for all those who worship the beast and take his mark. In my opinion the sixth trumpet started around the 1900s

Every trumpet plague was done under the cloak of christianity. But this is the work of Mystery Babylon. During the time of Nebuchadnezzar, Jerusalem was nought because Babylon overtook it but God's people remained loyal to God although under the rule of a gentile king. And tptb only have power because God gave them power.

Rev 16:12And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

In the trumpet plague we see fire, smoke and brimstone issued out of the mouth of the horses.
In the vial plague we see three unclean spirits like frogs out of the mouth of the dragon.
This is the nature and source of the kings of the east. Not a good thing. Whereas during the trumpets the fire, smoke and brimstone indicate war style tactics from the dragon, the unclean spirits during the vial plague are the deceiving miracles used by the dragon to gather his army to armegeddon.

Even the bible says the beast shall reign or 'take over the world' for a time being but that is where your prophecies end. It is still not the eternal kingdom.