Revelation; The seven churches (have been promised)

reply to post by Michael Cecil


Michael, you said in one of your posts that Mohammed was both so and so, Jesus said He was one with the Father and His Son, why does Mohammed and his followers reject His words while at the same time calling Him a prophet?

If anyone is ashamed of Me and My WORDS, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Originally posted by Rustami
Michael, you said in one of your posts that Mohammed was both so and so, Jesus said He was one with the Father and His Son, why does Mohammed and his followers reject His words while at the same time calling Him a prophet?

If anyone is ashamed of Me and My WORDS, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

My friend,

I know you did not address me personally, but if I may, here are my thoughts on your question. Not ALL Muslims reject the words of Christ. Some, do in fact live in perfect harmony with his word. When man is Judged, should they not be judged on individual merit?

If we lump ALL Muslims into the same category because of the actions of a few, we may as well judge all Christians the same, or even better we may as well condemn all of Man the same, for that is the category most fitting for our species.

Judge not, Love All, be at peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Gaussq
Living a "human life" or not does not exclude him having a human body here. A God can incarnate here in flesh and blood, or did not Jesus do that?

He did it once. The point of the teaching in Matthew is that this was to be a unique event. It would not happen again. The gist of Matthew's teaching is; "If you have to go somewhere to see him, if it is possible to go somewhere to see him, then it is not the true returned Christ. By definition"

Jesus said the Lord would incarnate in China of flesh and blood,

What Swedenborg says Jesus says does not count. As a curiosity, I can point out that the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, writing in "Divine Principle" claims that the Messiah would have to be born in Korea. He dismisses China on the grounds that "China, being a communist country, is on the Satanic side". Perhaps the two claimants could get together in a boxing ring and fight it out, winner to meet Raj Patel in the final.

edit on 15-9-2010 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

Of course it is not Christ coming back. How many times did Jesus say to Swedenborg that the almighty is coming down here and Jesus is only his faithful witness? Jesus is passive in this event and can do nothing about it. Jesus is a very small God, far inferior to Yahweh.

Please read up on Jesus information to Swedenborg, it is 1770 years younger than the bible and Jesus said it by himself and not some monks who understood some things at their level of wisdom.

Do you think 50 000 pages on the bible and Jesus from the Swedish ingenius son of a Bishop comes about by hasard? Statistics and common sense.

Coincidentally it all makes perfect sense and explains what Jesus teachings were all about.

Jesus does not care if you are a bible believer or a church believer.

He has told you where to look for the doctrines of the almighty when he comes down. They are here now for those who are prepared to open their eyes and read.

In any case, try to be a good person if nothing else works out for you. That is all the last judgment is about for non-cultivators.

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Originally posted by nlouise
reply to post by Michael Cecil

 

This, for me, is a major problem.

Any Revelation of Truth at all specifically contradicts, root and branch, every single doctrine of the Pharisaical, idolatrous, metaphysical philosophers who refer to themselves as Christian theologians.

When we read the pages of the Bible, we know that there are metaphors and such, not everything is literal in interpretation. What Disraeli and others are doing on these topics is reasoning together with what is on the surface, whether it be literal or metaphoric. I don't recall Disraeli saying that he is a theologian, or claiming to know all.

The Bible will not contradict its own Truth, when the interpretation is correct, whether seen from a spiritual perspective or in a natural perspective. What I am suggesting is that those who go through other means (ie. esocteric knowledge, kundalini, or otherwise) are seeing this from another spirit. If they are seeing this through any other spirit other than God, who is the real author, they will see things that contradict, which are lies of the enemy. It may appear to be true to the individual, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that what they see isn’t a lie. What I saw never referred to any chakaras or any words of that nature. It was very easy to understand (I’m no Biblical scholar) and very deep, nothing about anything that didn’t pertain to God or his plan or what was/is happening with mankind.


How can you be certain that what you see is truth, even though you call it truth? “Are you seeing layers?” was my question to you. Or are you just reasoning between what other theologians are testifying to, that believe they have truth?

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by Michael Cecil

 

Michael, you said in one of your posts that Mohammed was both so and so, Jesus said He was one with the Father and His Son, why does Mohammed and his followers reject His words while at the same time calling Him a prophet?

If anyone is ashamed of Me and My WORDS, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

First of all, your capitalization of the pronouns in reference to Jesus is a blasphemy in and of itself, as clearly elucidated in the Quran.

This is not merely a trivial matter.

It was the blood-thirsty idolatry of millions of Christians over hundreds upon hundreds of years worshipping Jesus as 'God' which resulted in the demonization of "the Jews" resulting very directly in the Holocaust of millions of Jews as 'Christ killers' or killers of 'God''.

Secondly, the "Night Journey" of Mohammed IS the Vision of the "Son of man".

So, by receiving that Revelation, Mohammed already knew more than any Christian theologian about the Teaching of Jesus.

What the followers of Mohammed reject is the pagan idolatry and metaphysical philosophy of Paul, the originator of Christian theology.

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by Gaussq
Please read up on Jesus information to Swedenborg, it is 1770 years younger than the bible and Jesus said it by himself and not some monks who understood some things at their level of wisdom.

Do not quote Swedenborg to me as an authority. If Swedenborg said he was getting information direct from Jesus, then Swedenborg was a liar.

"If a prophet arises among you, a dreamer of dreams...and if he says "let us go after other gods"...you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams." Deuteronomy ch13 vv1-3

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by Rustami

Not ALL Muslims reject the words of Christ. Some, do in fact live in perfect harmony with his word. When man is Judged, should they not be judged on individual merit?

If we lump ALL Muslims into the same category because of the actions of a few, we may as well judge all Christians the same, or even better we may as well condemn all of Man the same, for that is the category most fitting for our species.

Judge not, Love All, be at peace.

edit on 15-9-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)

False doctrine is exactly that; false doctrine. Many religions believe that Jesus was a person, but that does not mean that they believe that Jesus is the son of God.

Defending the faith is not judging. Some people have this idea that Jesus came to bring peace to the world. That is not true. His peace resides in the hearts of his followers. The word of God brings division, which separates the true from the false.

Are we not to correct error, or should we allow error to manifest with those who are still lost and lurking within these postings? If we don't take a stand for the faith, who will? Certainly not the 'lost sheep', they can't.

Matthew 10:34 (King James Version)

34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Luke 12:51 (King James Version)

51Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Originally posted by Rustami[

First of all, your capitalization of the pronouns in reference to Jesus is a blasphemy in and of itself, as clearly elucidated in the Quran.

Do not try to impose the authority of the Koran on a Christian.
The Koran has no authority whatsoever on any Christian, and has no authority to decide what may or may not ba blasphenous.
Rustumi is perfectly entitled, by Christian custom, to capitalise the names of the Lord Jesus, Son of God, and Christ.

Originally posted by nlouise

When we read the pages of the Bible, we know that there are metaphors and such, not everything is literal in interpretation. What Disraeli and others are doing on these topics is reasoning...

This is the crux of the issue here.

What is reasoning?

Reasoning is human thought, which originates in the consciousness of the 'thinker'; the consciousness of the 'thinker' originating not in the desire for Truth; but, rather, the fear of death.

To say that human thought is fully equivalent with Revelation is to assert that, for all practical purposes, man is 'God'.

I don't recall Disraeli saying that he is a theologian, or claiming to know all.

The implication of what he is saying is that human thought is fully equivalent to Revelation.

The claim to understand the Revelation received by John is the claim to have received Revelation Itself inasmuch as that is the very nature of Revelations: they cannot be grasped through human thought; which is WHY they have to be Revealed in the first place.

The Bible will not contradict its own Truth,

Don't talk to me about the "Bible". Paul turns the Teaching of Jesus on the Doctrine of "resurrection" UPSIDE DOWN. And his writings are included in the "Bible".

How can you be certain that what you see is truth, even though you call it truth?

That is what the Vision is. That is what the Revelation is.

“Are you seeing layers?” was my question to you. Or are you just reasoning between what other theologians are testifying to, that believe they have truth?

I have no real idea at all about what you mean by the word "layers".

And I am not "reasoning" at all.

And I don't read the theologians. Haven't for probably 20 years at least.

I really don't have a clue as to what the current version of their lies is.

I see three dimensions of consciousness: the "self", the 'thinker', and a consciousness Created by God which is for the conveying of Revelations and Knowledge and Truth.

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by nlouise
False doctrine is exactly that; false dooctrine. Many religions believe that Jesus was a person, but that does not mean that they believe that Jesus is the son of God.

Then they do not believe themselves that they too are the Son of God for it is God that created all things. So that would mean they are children who do not see the obvious. I would not hate a child for not knowing its parents.

Originally posted by nlouiseDefending the faith is not judging. Some people have this idea that Jesus came to bring peace to the world. That is not true. His peace resides in the hearts of his followers. The word of God brings division, which separates the true from the false.

You cannot defend the faith by judging. You defend the faith by living it, and to live is to not judge, but to love all. The word of God brings division because we all have it, we all express it differently, and we judge each others version.

Originally posted by nlouiseAre we not to correct error, or should we allow error to manifest with those who are still lost and lurking within these postings? If we don't take a stand for the faith, who will? Certainly not the 'lost sheep', they can't.

We are to correct our own error when we find it. Jesus said something about a beam in thine eye.

Originally posted by nlouiseMatthew 10:34 (King James Version)

34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Luke 12:51 (King James Version)

51Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

The sword is the sword of Truth. We all have it, we all express it differently, thus we have division.

I suppose we, you and I, have a difference of opinion on what Truth Jesus was revealing. My idea of his Truth is Love and forgiveness, and not judging.

Therefore, I say keep your version of his truth if it uplifts your soul, as my version uplifts my own. If it lowers your soul, makes you angry, hateful, and judgemental, I'd beg you part with it. But, that is out of love. If it pains you more to part with it, keep it.

Judge not, love all, be at peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by nlouise

Briefly, the real division does not occur at the level of belief.

The real division occurs between those who have Knowledge and those who only have belief.

I have no problem whatsoever with the mystical writings of many of the Jews. In fact, I studied them for some time and validated much of what they write, while quibbling over certain other issues. Much of the Knowledge of the Revelations can be found there.

Neither do I have problems with the Sufis, who have a mystical understanding of the Revelations in the Quran.

But I also know that the Roman church exterminated the Albigensians for teaching the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection", that those who have any genuine understanding of the Kabbalah are relentlessly hated and repudiated and persecuted by the Orthodox rabbis; and that the Sufi perspective of Islam is certainly not as well-known as it should be.

Michael Cecil

reply to post by DISRAELI

According to the consciousness of the 'thinker', Truth can be found only in the thoughts of the 'thinker'.

This is why Christian theologians write books and books and more books.

Thought is all that they know.

But, for me, Truth is so vast that it can be expressed not merely in Doctrine; but, also, in music and art and poetry and dance and geometry and, even, cinematography. Hence the links on my website.

Are you aware that Michelangelo' "Creation of Adam", sometimes referred to as "the Touch" is a visual representation of the Revelation of the Memory of Creation?

(I would not even go to the trouble of explaining this to you, although I have commented previously on a note on "Conspiracies in Religions" on this subject.)

This infuriates the consciousness of the 'thinker' no end because it cannot even grasp what is going on in those expression of Truth.

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
Briefly, the real division does not occur at the level of belief.

The real division occurs between those who have Knowledge and those who only have belief.

My friend,

The division occurs when one casts the judgement that ones view is knowledgable and the others is simply belief.

Both views are knowledge and both views are belief. The difference lies in the heart of the individual, and as no man knows the heart of another, other than by how he expresses it, he can only form a belief, regardless of how knowledgeable he is himself.

Thus it is better to simply listen and learn from each other, than it is to shut out and judge.

That to me, feels like Love of God, Love of Man, and Love of Self.

Is that not what all our creeds want of us at their very core?

Judge not, Love All, live in peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Michael Cecil


The manner in which you are ‘all over the place’ with your ideas, not only reveals what your true intent is on this thread, but also that you have a disdain for Christianity to begin with. This alone disqualifies you on any Biblical knowledge, and you are not to be taken seriously.

Paul never led any Christian Holocausts, and neither do Christians today. You say that “It was the blood-thirsty idolatry of millions of Christians over hundreds upon hundreds of years worshipping Jesus as 'God' which resulted in the demonization of "the Jews" resulting very directly in the Holocaust of millions of Jews as 'Christ killers' or killers of 'God''. -Research REAL history; about secret societies and who their REAL god was/is and which groups created the masacres of millions. By the way, wasn't Hitler a Jew?


Don't overlook the last sentence of this scripture. Secret society luciferians had a field day with this one.


Matthew 27:24-25 (King James Version)
24When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.


If you are going to attempt to rip apart our belief of the Bible scriptures by such flimsy examples, at least know what you are talking about. If you haven't researched your history and you are taking what the government school textbooks fed you at face value, than your credibility in 'spiritual' matters is lost by lip servicing the words of clueless theologians who have fed you a pack of lies.

Originally posted by nlouise
Don't overlook the last sentence of this scripture. Secret society luciferians had a field day with this one.

My friend, the secret societies had a field day with all of Jesus' teachings. The Bible was compiled by such a society at the behest of the Roman Emperor Constantine. He could not defeat the early Christ movement because it was a movement of peaceful resistance. The early followers of Christ were beaten, enslaved, and fed to lions. Yet, they would not lift a finger to fight back. They continued to be persecuted and their persecution only lead others to the movement, for they were FREE. This is not a good thing for an Empire, so Constantine had the teachings put to writing and amalgamated the Jewish faith, Christs teachings and paganism all into one faith which he himself controlled.

The truth of Christ IS in the Bible, but it is blended into doctrines which deified him and made him the article of worship, not God. They held him up as THE source of truth, not ourselves. It made the religion of false idolotry which in turn made man subservient to man, not God.

I offer you this key to understanding that which is true and what is false in that book. It is a key you already possess in your heart, as do we all. That key is Love. Read the Bible with the love you have in your heart, and the Truth will be unlocked.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and you will know God, and Love, for they are one and the same.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
The implication of what he is saying is that human thought is fully equivalent to Revelation.

The claim to understand the Revelation received by John is the claim to have received Revelation Itself inasmuch as that is the very nature of Revelations: they cannot be grasped through human thought; which is WHY they have to be Revealed in the first place.

"He" is not saying anything of the kind. We are encouraged and even instructed to seek to understand the word of God in the Bible, and to seek God's help in understanding in it.
That is all I am claiming to do; "When the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth"- John ch16 v13.
God gave us the ability to reason so that we could use it. I am using it in faith and in good faith in the examination of the scriptures, trusting in the guidance of the Holy Spirit; and letting other people see the reasoning process so that they can check it against their own.
You have slightly misunderstood the reason for Revelation. Things need to be revealed because they cannot be discovered by human reasoning. Once they've been shown to us, we can make some progress towards understanding them. A classic example is the necessity for the death of Christ, which could not be discovered by human reasoning alone. That is why, as Paul says, the crucifixion of Christ is "folly to the Greeks".

.

And I am not "reasoning" at all.

Yes, we noticed.

reply to post by nlouise

True or false?

There are hundreds of millions of Christians on the planet earth.

True or false?

Jesus said "Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to perdition is wide and spacious and many take it; but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

Question:

Is hundreds of millions "many" or "few".

The Satanic doctrines of aPauline Christianity are believed in by hundreds of millions of people on this planet.

And, just look around you at the horrors that are regularly inflicted on the people of this planet through all manner of violence.

Christians cannot have it both ways.

They cannot have hundreds of millions of followers, say that they are on the "narrow" path of "the few"; and, at the same time, deny all responsibility whatsoever for the evils and violence on this planet.

At this very moment, there are millions upon millions of fundamentalist Christians on the planet who are salivating for a nuclear war and genocide agains the Iranians...in the hopes that they will soon be 'Raptured'.

This is at the opposite end of the spectrum from ANYTHING that Jesus taught.

Oh, by the way, how many millions upon millions of Buddhists--who also believe in a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'--are drooling for a nuclear war and genocide of Iranians?

And they are not even followers of Jesus in the first place.

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
But, for me, Truth is so vast that it can be expressed not merely in Doctrine; but, also, in music and art and poetry and dance and geometry and, even, cinematography. Hence the links on my website.

Hey, poetry lover, I quoted Keats at you the other day, and for some reason you were not impressed at all.
No, I think I would put you down as a Shelley man. Perhaps you can guess why.

Are you aware that Michelangelo' "Creation of Adam", sometimes referred to as "the Touch" is a visual representation of the Revelation of the Memory of Creation?
This infuriates the consciousness of the 'thinker' no end because it cannot even grasp what is going on in those expression of Truth.

You know, I feel a complete lack of fury on the subject.
Perhaps you don't understand thinkers as well as you thought.
I do recall challenging you to justify the claim that Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jesus, and John, agreed with your teaching, by means of a detailed examination of the Biblical texts.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Defending the faith is not judging. We do live it, but I will not allow a cultist in my home to teach my family error. The division is not among the true followers of Jesus Christ, the division is between the wheat and the tares. I didn’t say anything about hate, you did. The child belongs to the parents, the followers of Jesus Christ belong to Jesus Christ. Not all belong to Jesus Christ, and that is their choice to be excluded.

Beam in thine own eye scripture is not referring to blasphemies from the tares. You have taken that completely out of context. Beam in thine own eye is referring to the brethren. Those that attack our beliefs are not brethren..

Those who are seeking after God through Jesus Christ are not in ‘division’; the real division occurs when people are offended by the Word of God and attack it.

Again, you keep going back to the word judging. It is not judging, it is exposing the works of darkness. Christianity is not based on ‘feelings’, your emotions can lead you wrong. Please do not tell me I am full of hate, anger and judgement. You do not know me, how can you access that from what I have written? Do you know my heart? Are you not judging me with all your implications?