So You Wanna Fight? ATS Debate Tournament (Tournament Update)

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I don't use phones and I know how to pirate wifi...in fact, if I needed to, I would just walk upstairs (I leatrned the sweetspots as soon as I moved in)...

As for carrier pigeons, obviously, the point is moot...

As for the debate topic...rest assured...I already have that one in the bag...





The Pope has got it and so do You!!

reply to post by MemoryShock


There is absolutely no truth to the rumor that I am the Pope or that anyone participating in the debate tournament against the Pontiff, oops I mean me, is going to be condemned to an eternity in Hell by St. Peter.

So let me just clear that one up right now that it really is just a lifetime of humiliation you are going to have to live with on ATS after losing in the tournament and not the 9th and most horrible level of Dante's Inferno you are going to be consigned to in perpituity.

Further there is absolutely no truth that the husbands, wives, girlfriends and boyfriends and significant others all left previous losers in the debate tournament or that a flock of divorce attorneys are now joining ATS in anticipation of this happening again.

I really don't want any of the other contestants having their minds infected by these kinds of rediculous fears just because they have no idea their whole world is actually on the line and their immortal soul.

I just want to make all that perfectly clear.

reply to post by The Vagabond

Character count

not supposed to edit posts in the debate thread

These things are not mentioned in the debate rules thread. Where are the rules that will be in effect for the tournament?

reply to post by LordBucket


There are always a list of rules in the opening (topic) post made by the debate forum moderator. To check out the standard ones just look at any of the opening posts from the last tournament.

Debate Forum Index

I did accidentally get ahead of myself. I had tentatively said Thursday, then I said tomorrow.

This presents a small problem- while I am not prepared to tease you guys and retract that, I'm also not prepared to risk somebody missing their first post because I changed the plan.

Therefore I propose that we open the debates tomorrow, but enact a grace period for the first round, whereby first round posts may not be forfeit. This will also make it easier to substitute alternates into matches before they are underway if somebody does not show up.


Next up, I'm going to check that the rules are inclusive of all information that you need, post them here as they will appear in your threads along with additional explanation, and then start copying and pasting them into debate threads.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I'm an atheist and have dissolved all personal relationships...stoic that I am. You need not worry about my mental state.

Just keep talking...

The Vagabond - I was wondering why the days were mixed up but in the interest of getting this show on the road, why not just add the time period assumed from a Thursday start to the Con position's opening reply...

Everyone gets an extended time period for their opening argument...and revert to standard rules...kind of works as well since many have been waiting for quite awhile...kind of like an 'easy open'...if I have the terminology correctly...

Regardless...looking forward to the topics...

I'm not quite able to envision what you mean Mem. I'm open to it, but I need you to break it down for me as if my brain were for some reason not cooperating with me tonight.

I'm inclined towards no forfeiture of opening statements in the first round because if the debater to post first still misses his turn and the con posts, the alternate who we're going to want to sub in will have seen the con's opening already, and the pro position's opening will appear out of order in the thread.

It also takes all the hassle of counting times out of the picture until we know that both debaters are engaged. I think that might be the softest start option.

Am I missing any potential flaws in that plan?

reply to post by The Vagabond

You plan works better...I was just saying to add the time of the time stamp to the 9:00am Thursday start date to both opening replies...

Ignore me and carry on; you have it thought out better...

reply to post by The Vagabond


I'm kind of confused by what you mean by "no forfeiture for opening posts"

Not that it matters, since I'm not playing, but I thought I'd ask in case others are also puzzled. Do you mean that the threads will be opened tomorrow and there will be no specified deadline for the pro positions to put up their openings and also no specified deadline for the cons to put up their openings after the pros have started? Then revert to normal 24-hour deadlines after that?

Also thought I should mention that looking through the thread I noticed a couple of participants still don't have Fighter status (saltheart foamfollower and ModernAcademia were the two I noticed from the list you gave).

You know...the problem is easily solved if you post the debate topics tonight and don't open the threads until Thursday at 9...everyone gets to see and prepare within the 24 hour time frame and everything can still be to the rules...

Or just wait until Thursday at 9...Truth be told...I am a fan of the former...

actually i am a bit confused about the tomorrows and todays etc.

can we be a bit more accurate and talk about exact days and exact times.

now it is wednesday 8:54pm at this place (europe)
that means still yesterday in Los Angeles

to plan it properly accurateness will be necessary
and not everybody is playing the vagabond-tactic

Good catch AmericanDingBat. I will double-check fighter status and award it where necessary.

Here are the rules as they are planned to appear in the opening of debates for this tournament. A few clarifications have been added, along with an explanation of the grace period for opening statements. Please ask any questions, point out any problems, etc ASAP if there are any.

The topic for this debate is "________ .”

"_______ " will be arguing the "Pro" position and begin the debate.
"_______ " will be arguing the "Con" position.

The Debate Forum Bill of Rights shall govern any objection to the assigned topic. If such objection exists, please U2U the moderator who posted this thread. Time limits shall be suspended pending a ruling on any such objection.

Each debater will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by 3 alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each and no rebuttal.

There is a 10,000 character limit per post- this includes all characters including punctuation and spaces, as counted when copied from their display in the thread (where BB code is hidden and thus does not count).

Any character count in excess of 10,000 will be deleted prior to the judging process.

Editing of posts is strictly forbidden. For reasons of time, mod edits should not be expected except in critical situations. Requests for critical edits (affecting visibility of post or function of links for example) should be U2U'd to the moderator who posted this debate thread.

Opening and closing statements must not contain any images and must have no more than 3 references. Video and audio files are NOT allowed.

Excluding both the opening and closing statements, only two images and no more than 5 references can be included for each post. Each individual post may contain up to 10 sentences of external source material, totaled from all external sources. Be cognizant of what you quote as excess sentences will be removed prior to judging.

Links to multiple pages within a single domain count as 1 reference but there is a maximum of 3 individual links per reference, then further links from that domain count as a new reference. Excess quotes and excess links will be removed before judging. Once a link has been posted by either participant, it may be reused in future posts without counting as an additional reference.

The Socratic Debate Rule is in effect. Each debater may ask up to 5 questions in each post, except for in closing statements- no questions are permitted in closing statements. These questions should be clearly labeled as "Question 1, Question 2, etc.

When asked a question, a debater must give a straight forward answer in his next post. Explanations and qualifications to an answer are acceptable, but must be preceded by a direct answer.

This Is The Time Limit Policy:
Opening statements shall not be forfeit as a result of time limits. If an opening statement is not posted within 24 hours, a minimum of 24 additional hours will be allowed and a reasonable effort will be made to contact the late poster and make arrangements before any substitution of competitors is undertaken.

Each debate must post within 24 hours of the timestamp on the last post. If your opponent is late, you may post immediately without waiting for an announcement of turn forfeiture. If you are late, you may post late, unless your opponent has already posted.

In the unlikely event that tardiness results in simultaneous posting by both debaters, the late post will be deleted unless it appears in its proper order in the thread.

Each debater is entitled to one extension of 24 hours. The request for a 24 hour extension should be posted in this thread and is automatically granted- the 24 hour extension begins at the expiration of the previous deadline, not at the time of the extension request.

If a participant misses 2 posts in a debate, it will be then declared a forfeiture. In the event where the debate continues, once a debate forum staff member is able to respond, the debate will be closed and awarded to the winning participant.

Judging will be done by a panel of anonymous judges. After each debate is completed it will be locked and the judges will begin making their decision. One of the debate forum moderators will then make a final post announcing the winner.

In the Tournament, winners will be awarded 2 points for each debate they win.

All AboveTopSecret.com Terms and Conditions Apply at all times in all debate formats.

Here's a paragraph by point breakdown of what all of that means.

1. Topics and positions are assigned at random. They are only subject to change if there is a credible reason that you are either not allowed to make the argument or not able to detach yourself from personal implications of the topic. (ie: If Al Qaida killed a member of your family, we won't ask you to argue that they aren't pure evil).

2. Each person gets 5 posts to use as they see fit, and you take turns. No rebuttal means that the person who posts second gets the last word. If they bring up something new at that time, there won't be a chance to refute it. HOWEVER the judges have been around and will pick up on it right away if the person with the last word tries to save a flawed argument for when their opponent can't refute it.

3. To determine if a post is under the 10k limit or not, I will simply copy it out of the thread from the first character to the last, and plug it into a counter, which will count all letters, numbers, punctuation, spaces, etc that are displayed to readers, but will not count BB code tags such as [.b] [./b] for bolded text.

4. If you post too much, I'll crudely hack the proper amount off of the end. I will not be able to objectively pick out the least important parts of your argument and trim it down that way.

5. DO NOT edit a post once you have posted it in the debate. Make every effort to make sure that your post goes up EXACTLY the way you want it the first time. If something goes wrong and your post is unreadable or your links don't work, U2U me and I'll find the time to fix it for you if that's really necessary to the debate.

6. Self explanatory.

7. In the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th posts that you make during the debate, you can use 5 different sources of outside information liked in your post. You can quote up to ten sentences, with external source tags of course. It doesn't matter if it's all 10 from one source, or 2 sentences from each, or whatever. Again if you post too many quoted sentences, I'll remove the extras, starting with the last quoted sentence and working my way back until only 10 remain.

8. For example, one wikipedia article counts as one reference. Three wikipedia articles still counts as just one reference. If you need more from the same source, you have to use another reference on it and then you can link to three additional articles. If you want to repost links that you used in your previous posts or that your opponent posted, you can still introduce 5 new references as well.

9/10. You can ask your opponent 5 questions in each post, and they have to answer directly in their next post, but then if your question was loaded or deceptive they can explain why the answer doesn't matter or why it doesn't mean what you think. If a question isn't clearly labeled as a socratic question, then your opponent can't be penalized for not noticing it or mistaking it for being strictly rhetorical. The definition of clear answers is determined by the judges. If you want to evade the question you will probably be allowed to, but the judges will hold it against you and you may even find that they comment on it in their decision.

11. If you are supposed to post first, and you haven't posted 24 hours after the start, I will try to contact you and make sure you know it's your turn to post and have a reasonable opportunity to do so. If you don't log in to ATS, don't read the u2u, don't indicate that you are going to post, etc for another 24 hours after that, then a case by case decision on whether you can be expected to show up soon or whether an alternate should be used will be made.
If you are supposed to post second, the u2u will be sent 24 hours after your opponent's post. Long story short, nobody is in danger of being replaced before Friday.

12. Once both debaters have made opening statements, the first debater has 24 hours from the time of the second debaters opening post to respond, or the second debater may post again. If you are late, you can still post as long as your opponent doesn't beat you to it. If you are in the process of posting late, but after posting discover that your opponent beat you to the punch while you were still typing, your post will be deleted, but it will be your turn again since your opponent just posted.

13. If you know you are going to be late with your post, just post "I am using my 24 hour extension" as if that was your debate post. This will cause your deadline to expire 24 hours later than it otherwise would have. You may post that you are using your extension after the deadline, just like you can post after the deadline, as long as your opponent doesn't beat you to it.

14. If you let a 24 hour window go by and your opponent posts again, the debate continues. If that happens a second time in the same match, you lose automatically.

I am completely lost on rule 6

Originally posted by whatukno
I am completely lost on rule 6

Opening and closing statements must not contain any images and must have no more than 3 references. Video and audio files are NOT allowed.

Unless I am mistaken...this is a rule you are familiar with...

Good Luck and Fun to all...

reply to post by Skyfloating

Here's to seeing you in debate during the tournament, my friend...

Yes, the rules were numbered by paragraph even though they don't explicitly have rule numbers, so 6 referred to

Opening and closing statements must not contain any images and must have no more than 3 references. Video and audio files are NOT allowed.

Touch Gloves, Come Out Swinging.



All debate threads have been posted. Anyone who doesn't have Fighter Status is about to get it.
You may begin posting immediately if desired. No one's turn will be skipped for late posting until each debater has posted his opening statement. No one will be replaced by an alternate as long as they are participating by Friday.

Any questions, requests for clarification, pointing out of errors, etc should be posted in this thread or U2U'd to me. Doing both would be even nicer.


Somebody pointed out one thing that was not clear about "pro" and "con" positions.

If you have the pro position, you are trying to prove that the statement in quotations marks is true. If you have the con, you are trying to prove that it is false.

So for example, if you were arguing the "PRO" side of "Medical technology which makes human life expectancy potentially unlimited should not be developed."
You would be arguing that Medical technology which makes human life expectancy potentially unlimited should NOT be developed.
You would not be arguing in favor of the technology, even though your position has been termed "pro".


Find Your Threads Here

All participants should now have fighter status.

Editing this in because I don't want to spam the thread:

I would like some feedback on my unilateral tradition of trying to incorporate puns into the titles. Is it even the least bit amusing or create any intrigue as to the content, or would you guys prefer if next round I just get right to the point?

reply to post by The Vagabond

Do as you will...but in my opinion, the puns could be better...

Spend some time shooting the proverbial carp with S-Dog....I fear the intelligence that would arise...

That said...Round One!!!!

Good luck to all...