Christopher Hitchens on Glenn Beck's Rally

Originally posted by mothershipzeta

And what difference does it make if he does not believe that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit? Mormans believe that Jesus was the Son of God, that's all that should matter to Christians. That is what all Christians are required to believe, not whether He was specifically conceived by the Holy Spirit............ The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all one in the same.

Right!

Mormons are classified as Christians. Jesus is their only savior. They study the bible. Studying and memorizing bible verses is very much a part of their religion.

There is an estimate of 34,000 separate Christian groups in the world. They all believe a little bit different.

Its ridiculous that one Christian group decides they are more Christian then another.

www.religioustolerance.org...

reply to post by weedwhacker


What are you saying?
I'm confused by your comment, could you please clarify?

reply to post by mothershipzeta

Originally posted by mothershipzeta
First, off, Mormons don't believe that last bit. They believe that the "Godhead" is made up of three distinct beings. They say they are "one in purpose," but not one in being. Kind of a big deal.

And as for Jesus being the Son of God...sure, that fits. But add the little detail that Jesus and Satan are brothers and that Mary wasn't a virgin but was physically impregnated by God "knowing" her. I'm pretty sure that is not part of Christian teaching. "Begotten, not made" is kind of important.

Not that I care what religion someone follows, or what the mythology is that goes along with it...but if mainstream Christians can bring themselves to ignore those little details, they're committing heresy against their own faith. I think they take that pretty seriously.

Sorry mom, but I have to disagree.

Not every Mormon adheres to those exact same tenets, just as every Catholic or Baptist doesn't necessarily agree on every little detail or interpret scripture in exactly the same manner.

The only dogma that a true Christian is required to believe is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And the only important things that Christians should do, are to follow the Ten Commandments and love one another as we love ourselves. This doesn't always work out for us though, as we acknowledge the fact that we are all sinners and we don't always necessarily even love ourselves. But we all persevere.

Again, you seem to be trying to persuade some Christians that Mr. Becks religion is heretical. And that the entire Mormon faith is little more than Christian heresy. I doubt if many Christians will buy into your argument.

And again, you offer no facts, figures or sources in order to refute anything that Mr. Beck has ever said. You just continue to slam the mans religion and try to divide Christians in the process.

And I stand by my original statement about being able to go toe to toe with Mr. Hitchens in any form of debate. He may have memorized parts of the Bible, but as a Christian who is guided by the Holy Spirit, I strive in order to live according to the Bible. There is a big difference between memorizing words in a book and actually applying them in ones everyday life. I am being guided by the Spirit. But as an atheist, the Spirit has abandoned Mr Hitchens.

He wouldn't even be able to hold my jock strap in a debate, let alone even come close to destroying me.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


Can you explain to me what Beck was talking about, with the "old man taking to a burning bush 5,000 years ago, and how God's chosen people are the Americans and the Native Americans. I just can't really get my head around what this man is talking about. I also find the whole America is the greatest nation on the planet a little arrogant dont you? Maybe it is but can you explain to me the process by which god came to these decisions. I found it all very confusing and as a non American, pretty offensive.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


No facts that show Glenn is either lying or incredibly stupid?

One of the main things Beck is against is NET NEUTRALITY, which concerns all of us. He's twisting the facts as if net neutrality is a bad thing, but in reality, it's what guarantees FREE SPEECH on the internet. If we didn't have net neutrality, any telecom company or the government can limit free speech on the Internet!!

The following clip clearly shows that he's clearly lying. Why? Well, either he's incredibly dumb, or in the pocket of big business. Both aren't characteristics I'm looking for when searching for someone to get my "information" from or someone to help me form an opinion.

Double post...

[edit on 1-9-2010 by MrXYZ]

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


Not OK for one Christian belief to slam another Christian belief.

But - slamming Atheists is OK - - because they don't have the Holy Spirit with them.

Okkkkkkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

 

Can you explain to me what Beck was talking about, with the "old man taking to a burning bush 5,000 years ago, and how God's chosen people are the Americans and the Native Americans. I just can't really get my head around what this man is talking about. I also find the whole America is the greatest nation on the planet a little arrogant dont you? Maybe it is but can you explain to me the process by which god came to these decisions. I found it all very confusing and as a non American, pretty offensive.

Read the Book of Mormon. And NO it is not their bible - - they are Christians - - they study the bible "as it is translated correctly".

They just believe there is additional history. The Book of Mormon is that additional history.

Mormons are Christians. They follow Christ AS THEY KNOW HIM and the best way that they know how. They have interpreted things differently.

Can you follow someone and not really know them? Sure. I highly doubt that the Protestants or Catholics fully understand Who Christ is. Neither do the Mormons. All those who follow Christ are in the same boat. They all try to follow His teachings as best as they know how.

Funny (or sad) ... talk to a Christian Fundamentalist in Alabama and they'll say that Catholics aren't Christian. Talk to a pre-Vatican II Catholic and they'll tell you that Protestants are heritics. Talk to a Church Of Christ minister and he'll tell you that the Baptists are going to hell because they have music in their worship service. Talk to one kind of Baptist and they'll tell you that there is apostasy at the Baptist church down the road because they allow Deacons to get re-married and they, themselves, do not. etc etc etc

Mormons are just as Christian as any other group who think they have figured out what Christ wants from humanity.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Hello woody.

I did not watch the ceremonies so I do not know what specific analogy Beck was trying to make, if any. As far as Americans and Native Americans being Gods Chosen People, I can see where this may be derived from his Mormon beliefs. Most Christians believe that the Jews are Gods Chosen People. But Gods real Chosen People are simply the ones who Choose Him.

Many are called, but few are Chosen,....which simply means that few will choose to believe.

As far as him saying that America is the greatest nation on Earth, being an American I would tend to agree. The Founding Fathers ushered in a new age of self governance that hadn't been seen since the times of the original Greek Democracy and the early Roman Republic. It may seem a little arrogant to the rest of the world, but I believe that Mr. Beck was addressing the Americans who were in the crowd and watching on television, if he indeed made that statement. Not that I'm calling you a liar or anything, but as I said, I did not watch the ceremonies.

I could not help but notice the location on your avatar. If you are British, you might be a little prejudiced towards Americans and toward the dominance that America has had throughout the world. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you guys still a little ticked off about abandoning the Colonies?

Woe....I'm getting slammed here. ......I can't type that fast. And I can't spend all day arguing with you guys, you're costing me money.

I have to get back to work so my tax dollars can continue to make it possible for you guys sit on your fat keesters and pass wind along with the propaganda you have been espousing in the absence of facts.

I'll get back to you all later.

Peace.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


There's quite a few countries that are a lot more democratic than the US, just fyi

And I doubt the Brits are still pissed off because of the colonies given that they lost them over 200 years ago.

The problem is, the US suffered quite a bit since 9/11: terrorist attacks, economic crisis, other countries gaining very quickly on the US when it comes to economy (China, Japan, India, etc.) therefore slowly deteriorating the US's status as being THE leader, unemployment, loss of image because of wars started for the wrong reasons...

So it's no surprise people are pissed off. But what do people like Beck tell them? To turn towards their faith!! Belief and religion isn't based on rationality, logic, or education...it's based on pure guess work. That's NOT the right approach to solving real life problems! At best, it can give a person some "mental comfort", but it'll never solve the economic crisis and all the other problems.

What Beck's appeal to religion does is allow him and an entire political spectrum to exploit people's belief to push their agenda.

The rest of the world looks at the US and is baffled at how a troubled nation that once was a leader is now looking towards faith to solve their real life problems. It's as if they jumped a few centuries back in time...

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

I could not help but notice the location on your avatar. If you are British, you might be a little prejudiced towards Americans and toward the dominance that America has had throughout the world. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you guys still a little ticked off about abandoning the Colonies?

I love America I have been many times, I like American people, but I am an atheist and just a little unnerved with the power one man Glen Beck has over a large sway of your Country. Being from the UK we dont really have figures like Glen Beck in our media, never really have. The BBC style is a little more formal than FOX. So what I witness across the pond is a slightly surprising/alarming spectacle.

We are not very religious over here either and you would never see a gathering like that, so I just find it all a bit weird

Im not ticked off with America, it was over 200 years ago. I'm no lover of Britain's colonial past either.

The Gospel of Glenn Beck



You know… I… I’d really like to share with you a personal story from today, but I can’t, because it puts my family in danger. Do you think I want to get on the air every night and tell you this stuff? The media will say "he’s just a clown." Well you know what, I am a clown. I am a guy who just…I just want to have laughs and fun, I’m a capitalist, I want to make money, all that stuff. I want to live my life with my family. I don’t want to have to live with security, and walls, and gates, and everything else. Do you think I want to live that way? Maybe there are some people like that. That ain't me. That is not me. I don’t want to believe these things, but unfortunately I find them true.

They can take my job and they can take my wealth but that’s okay….even if the powers to be, right now, succeed in making me poor, drum me out, and I’m just a worthless loser… which I’m just about that much above that now… I will only be stronger for it.

You ever see those movies where they say, “I gave a note to my attorney, and if I’m found dead, open the note.” I kind of feel like you’re my attorney. If I show up, you know, in Thailand, dead from auto-erotic asphyxiation, don’t believe it. If I’m ever in a weird car accident, or I commit suicide or something, after the media stops celebrating my death, could they check into it? Because I’m not suicidal. And I’m a pretty good driver.

I fear that there will come a time when I cannot say things that I am currently saying. I fear that it will come to television and to radio, and I will stop saying these things. Understand me clearly. Hear me now. If I ever stop saying these things, you will know why.

Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not covet. I want what they have. And for those who say somehow or another that I am distorting the socialist view of social justice, oh my goodness. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy brother. Holy cow. You’ve broken three commandments. Three of them. Three of them all on one principle. That’s amazing. And for those of you in the administration who are coming after me on this one, I mean, remember, you’ve broken three, let’s not make it four. Thou shalt not kill.


I have never seen such a persecution complex among someone who convinced himself he was a religious leader. Well, there was someone else...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d3cbbfc32623.jpg[/atsimg]

Don't drink that Kool-Aid.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
I love America I have been many times, I like American people, but I am an atheist and just a little unnerved with the power one man Glen Beck has over a large sway of your Country. Being from the UK we dont really have figures like Glen Beck in our media, never really have. The BBC style is a little more formal than FOX. So what I witness across the pond is a slightly surprising/alarming spectacle.

We are not very religious over here either and you would never see a gathering like that, so I just find it all a bit weird.

So, how does immigration work? How easy would it be for me to get a work visa and a job? I'd just like to live in a country of sane, decently educated people.

reply to post by mothershipzeta

We have our fair share of problems here, but religion plays far less of a role here compared to America.

I would be concerned for my country if I saw it move in a more religious manner The rise of Faith schools is increasing here, which is something that concerns me, but thats another debate.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by mothershipzeta

 

Originally posted by mothershipzeta
First, off, Mormons don't believe that last bit. They believe that the "Godhead" is made up of three distinct beings. They say they are "one in purpose," but not one in being. Kind of a big deal.

And as for Jesus being the Son of God...sure, that fits. But add the little detail that Jesus and Satan are brothers and that Mary wasn't a virgin but was physically impregnated by God "knowing" her. I'm pretty sure that is not part of Christian teaching. "Begotten, not made" is kind of important.

Not that I care what religion someone follows, or what the mythology is that goes along with it...but if mainstream Christians can bring themselves to ignore those little details, they're committing heresy against their own faith. I think they take that pretty seriously.

Sorry mom, but I have to disagree.

Not every Mormon adheres to those exact same tenets, just as every Catholic or Baptist doesn't necessarily agree on every little detail or interpret scripture in exactly the same manner.

The only dogma that a true Christian is required to believe is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And the only important things that Christians should do, are to follow the Ten Commandments and love one another as we love ourselves. This doesn't always work out for us though, as we acknowledge the fact that we are all sinners and we don't always necessarily even love ourselves. But we all persevere.

Again, you seem to be trying to persuade some Christians that Mr. Becks religion is heretical. And that the entire Mormon faith is little more than Christian heresy. I doubt if many Christians will buy into your argument.

And again, you offer no facts, figures or sources in order to refute anything that Mr. Beck has ever said. You just continue to slam the mans religion and try to divide Christians in the process.

And I stand by my original statement about being able to go toe to toe with Mr. Hitchens in any form of debate. He may have memorized parts of the Bible, but as a Christian who is guided by the Holy Spirit, I strive in order to live according to the Bible. There is a big difference between memorizing words in a book and actually applying them in ones everyday life. I am being guided by the Spirit. But as an atheist, the Spirit has abandoned Mr Hitchens.

He wouldn't even be able to hold my jock strap in a debate, let alone even come close to destroying me.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

and a Star.... the Churches that say they have it all worked out are the ones that are incorrect..... Potter Clay....Potter Clay

reply to post by Annee




and a star....:> one group should not defame another group, we should uplift and pray for them and ask them for prayer ourselves...

[edit on 1-9-2010 by tspark]

reply to post by Annee



I agree... We should be as nice as possible to everyone.....but i often find the the Spirit is willing ...but the flesh is weak....

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Mormons are Christians. They follow Christ AS THEY KNOW HIM and the best way that they know how. They have interpreted things differently.

Can you follow someone and not really know them? Sure. I highly doubt that the Protestants or Catholics fully understand Who Christ is. Neither do the Mormons. All those who follow Christ are in the same boat. They all try to follow His teachings as best as they know how.

Funny (or sad) ... talk to a Christian Fundamentalist in Alabama and they'll say that Catholics aren't Christian. Talk to a pre-Vatican II Catholic and they'll tell you that Protestants are heritics. Talk to a Church Of Christ minister and he'll tell you that the Baptists are going to hell because they have music in their worship service. Talk to one kind of Baptist and they'll tell you that there is apostasy at the Baptist church down the road because they allow Deacons to get re-married and they, themselves, do not. etc etc etc

Mormons are just as Christian as any other group who think they have figured out what Christ wants from humanity.

I agree...I've read a great deal of the Book of the Mormon and have concluded it detracts nothing for the Holy Bible....if anything it compliments it...

it has a few things that is not in the Bible....but then again there is the apocrypha books in some versions of Bible.....