Is Yahweh really the prime creator?

"divine means just that, it's pure, does not enjoy twisting things around and killing people"

What if this same pure God is also the one protecting you from the malicious ones? What if He only gets angry and violent at the malicious ones, and the malicious ones are trying to convince you that He is one of them. How do you think that pure God would feel about you grouping Him with them?

reply to post by spy66


This is the point that I wanted to make:
We can draw a 2-dimensional illustration of something 3-dimensioonal , but not more. There we hit at our limits.
Because our mind and our thinking are 3-dimensional and cannot get beyond that limitation.
We can hardly, almost not at all, grasp the rest of the creation, because it goes beyond our little 3 dimensions.
Therefore, this our limitation makes us miss important aspects and regions of creation which the human mind can never grasp by itself.
So how far can you get with your diagrams?
But we have something inside us that can go beyond these limits: our Epinoia (see posts above), being a divine spark hidden inside us. It makes us communicate with higher levels through divine INSPIRATION. Of course, our interpretation of information we get that way will be largely adapted to our poor 3-dimensional mind, such as in symbols and what you call “myths”.
This is why the “myths” actually do take us further and enable a certain insight in things beyond our limited 3 dimensions!
Being inspired by the Epinoia actually is “eating from the tree of wisdom” and having a bit of insight into higher truths Yaldabaoth doesn’t want us to know, because he wants us to believe that there is nothing above him, for the sake of his power and influence.

No one is sure anyway, it's the truth and we don't know it all.
There are two major forcess in the universe light and dark, out of them you get other things.
It's up to one to use them in a good manner or a bad manner.
Do you feel good when you walk under a full moon ? it's relaxing nothing evil about that, or do you feel good taking
a sun bade near the ocean, nothing evil about that. Or you want to go on a discovery to get more efficent enrgy.
But nukes, weapons, it seems we should use it against outside threat not against our selfs. But we can't, we are not in control, the puppet masters makes sure we kill eachother off, start wars and bade in blood.

Do you think god is some alien from some far away galaxy ? I don't, I think it's the force that governs the universe.
They tap into it and twist it to their needs. It's simple. I would not think god is some gigantic robo cop. What makes us tick is special beyond any explenation, why figure it out, life is so special, it creates the innocent. If I knew how I function 100% then life would not be that special. God does not tell you to burn flesh or kill your neibhor. Purity is the perfect balance, why would something perfect instruct you to pick up the sword and kill.
Perfection does not need this kind of sadism.

reply to post by spy66


"Was it God who had commanded her, or was it her tribe? Could she have been instructed by her parents or her tribe not to interact with a different tribe?"

At that time in Eden there was no tribe and no parents, only two: Adam and Eve ...

reply to post by pepsi78


Good post!
I mean www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by pepsi78


Right! Whoever orders to kill only demonstrates that he is no real god!

reply to post by pepsi78


Angels fell and interrelated with humans.
But humans are also fallen angels incarnated in physical bodies.
Before the very first incarnation, we were such angels.
There are angels and angels...

reply to post by pepsi78


"But nukes, weapons, it seems we should use it against outside threat not against our selfs."

Truly evolved and developed civilizations never use any weapons at all! They even no more have any!
They seek peaceful solutions and peaceful coexistence.
Some may even prefer to die themselves rather than to kill, because THEY KNOW THAT THERE IS NO DEATH!
Only the body dies and the soul lives forever.
There we have a far far way to go...

Originally posted by memyself
reply to post by pepsi78

 

Angels fell and interrelated with humans.
But humans are also fallen angels incarnated in physical bodies.
Before the very first incarnation, we were such angels.
There are angels and angels...

It's a fairy tail, they landed, we were here already and gamed us, then left.
While they were here they messed with our genetic dna, they knew they were not suppose to do that.
They broke the rules. It's the anunaki from the summerian tablets.
It's what I think of it anyway. There are probaly forces out there far stronger than the anunaki that guard what ever is the creator, not even the closest angels know the truth ? Go figure.You would not want anyone insane to go with a screw driver and tweak the universe. It all comes from somewhere, everything, where it begun, it's there.
Do we know how good looks ? No, no one knows, is it the god from the bible or the egiptian gods ? Do we know ? No we don't, so why do we assume we know ? Why chose religions and start wars, look at the universe it's so gigantic. I assume there is a god because I chose to, because of my suroundings of how I see life and how things spin around me plus that everything is like a simphony of vibrations set just at the right level for everything to be.
I get dreams, I dream, I see. Life is special. Maybe we will become explorers our selfs, of the universe, who knows.

Originally posted by memyself
reply to post by pepsi78

 

"But nukes, weapons, it seems we should use it against outside threat not against our selfs."

Truly evolved and developed civilizations never use any weapons at all! They even no more have any!
They seek peaceful solutions and peaceful coexistence.
Some may even prefer to die themselves rather than to kill, because THEY KNOW THAT THERE IS NO DEATH!
Only the body dies and the soul lives forever.
There we have a far far way to go...

What if some like the ones that came before come again, they land and they say, I am your god, obey, kill.
What do you do ?
I'm just asking.
You pick up the sword to defend the innocent. It's the last option, but it's there.
It happened to us, it may happen again, I would like to know the answer to that but I don't.
It's our nature, it's true what gets us in trouble, who will pull the triger first.
Are there vilans in the universe, yes they are it seems.
Are we allow to defend our selfs, seems not for the moment and I don't know the future.

reply to post by pepsi78


How do you know it's a fairy tale?
Where and what do you think we were before we incarnated the first time?

reply to post by pepsi78


"What if some like the ones that came before come again, they land and they say, I am your god, obey, kill.
What do you do? I'm just asking. You pick up the sword to defend the innocent."

If we really have courage we refuse to kill. But it is, of course, hard to have that courage.
The only valid exception is where we can stop the killing of others through killing a perpetrator.

Originally posted by memyself
reply to post by pepsi78

 

How do you know it's a fairy tale?
Where and what do you think we were before we incarnated the first time?

I don;t know what version or what religion is the correct one, or if any religion is 100% accurate.
What I do know is I will not worship some alien that tells me to pick up and kill people, it's their religion, religion of the blood bath, Rome ? Gladiators put in the ring, one of you has to die, it's a game to us now fight. Can't you see the sadism in it ? The roman catholic curch if full of occultic simbols. But I do beilive in god, all I know is that there is this force that provides equal balance, it's the creator, what created us in the begining. The rules of the universe are set it seems, and they come from the source, there has to be a source for things to flow. That is god, not some freaking alien telling you to kill. That is the snake my friend, the prankster. What is pure does not instruct one to kill.

Originally posted by memyself
reply to post by pepsi78

 

"What if some like the ones that came before come again, they land and they say, I am your god, obey, kill.
What do you do? I'm just asking. You pick up the sword to defend the innocent."

If we really have courage we refuse to kill. But it is, of course, hard to have that courage.
The only valid exception is where we can stop the killing of others through killing a perpetrator.

We can't even give up meat eating, I mean some can. Learn how to stop killing animals first.

Originally posted by memyself
reply to post by spy66

 

At that time in Eden there was no tribe and no parents, only two: Adam and Eve ...

What ever you say. You know best.

There is no reason to argue with someone who knows the facts. I rest my case.

Re: Memyself

Personally I consider the semantic concept 'equilibrium' as a description of a more basic situation: How opposite polarities relate to each other. Equilibrium can range from an uneasy balance, containing latent possibilities of strong dynamics (e.g. the 'cold war') to a situation, where the basic polarities are so symmetric, that they will cancel each other out (ultimate enthropy).

To cut a long story short, the manifested cosmos is, in a scientific perspective, an example of an equilibrium of somewhat a-symmetric forces, particles etc, which create cosmic dynamics. In a human way of describing it, symmetry is 'within sight, but usually not within reach'.

I use two existential, epistemological tools. Logic (where I would like to include controlled 'inductive reasoning') and experience. Science, the main supporter of logic, only accepts experience in a laboratory situation, which is a shortcoming. Experience can be valuable evidence, if used under rigorious control, outside a laboratory.

In a former post, I questioned the axiomatically value of 'epinoia'. I did that, because 'epinoia' sometimes is too inclusive and lenient in its parameters. It's easily observed, that local co-sensus to a certain degree taints experiences of anomalies (which then are presented as religious, theological or existential 'truth'), but on the other hand, the anomalous experience called 'transcendent' experience, shows many global similarities, which strongly indicate, that both the experience in itself and some of the observations from there, are legitimate.

I believe, that a transcendent platform is a sound way of observing trans-cosmic phenomena. But that it also needs some comparative analysis, not least concerning human perception and the human habit of making premature interpretations.

So, for the moment skipping a long series of arguments *, I conclude, that the 'intent/agenda' called Yahweh here is (as far as anything is 'real') existing, as an expression of a principle is being involved in the formation of cosmic phenomena, but beyond that a transcendent perspective doesn't give us any definite evidence as to the character or nature of nameless beyond.

My reluctance to accepting human characteristics, such as seeking experience, curiousity, 'playing', an ultimate 'god' dreaming itself etc, to describe the nameless, is more academic than anything else. Individuals, who have experienced transcendence, have seen the futility of violence, and even of misssionary attitudes. Such individuals are generally quite positive in social contexts, and even if they arrive at somewhat different conclusions on the ultimate nameless, it's not a problem for me.

* To extensive to bring up in one post.

reply to post by metalore


There will obviously be at least two of them - one real creator God who is pure - and pure love - and one who loves killing and bloodshed. The latter is described pagewise in the OT...

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reply to post by bogomil


“I believe, that a transcendent platform is a sound way of observing trans-cosmic phenomena. But that it also needs some comparative analysis, not least concerning human perception and the human habit of making premature interpretations. “

I agree. Thanks for that remark.

“So, for the moment … I conclude, that the 'intent/agenda' called Yahweh here is (as far as anything is 'real') existing, as an expression of a principle is being involved in the formation of cosmic phenomena, but beyond that a transcendent perspective doesn't give us any definite evidence as to the character or nature of nameless beyond. “

No evidence in the sense that, e.g., our so called “science” would require. And such evidence will not be possible within the limitations of our three-dimensional minds, and also our “science” is “crippled” by that limitation.. That is a basic problem here. Yet the transcendent source of information by means of something in us that the Gnostics called Epinoia (or maybe by also some other means) will be nearly all we have for reaching beyond these limitations.

“My reluctance to accepting human characteristics, such as seeking experience, curiosity, 'playing', an ultimate 'god' dreaming itself etc, to describe the nameless, is more academic than anything else. Individuals, who have experienced transcendence, have seen the futility of violence, and even of missionary attitudes. Such individuals are generally quite positive in social contexts, and even if they arrive at somewhat different conclusions on the ultimate nameless, it's not a problem for me.”

I understand your reluctance. But inspiration from beyond the three-dimensional will need to be expressed (in a way translated) in concepts our three-dimensional mind can deal with, since we cannot perceive what is beyond and deal with it like (just as an example) a five-dimensional mind could.