Revelation; The two witnesses

reply to post by nlouise



Yes but the two witnesses will die as scripture says.

Yes Christ is greater but even he took on a human body to be kin with us like us one of us.

You want to agrue scripture with me then tighten up youer flow dj.

Originally posted by nlouise

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by nlouise
Good research on the post DISRAELI.



Moses and Elijah have their glorified bodies now.

What will happen to believers that are alive when Jesus returns at the end? Is he going to kill them and resurrect them? No. They will be changed into their glorified bodies.

If they had their glorified bodies now......they couldnt be killed as scripture says they will be. They are men that have never died in transfigured bodies.

So what if Christ just glorifes some while living.....how does this confront the witnesses? What if God wanted to preserve you for a mission say 2000 years from now? He wouldnt glorify you now but put you in a state of preservation.

Hay and you may have a hard time with this but Christ did have to do what the special prophets before Him had done. This shouldnt be to hard for you to understand. He let John baptize Him.

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by nlouise

 

Yes but the two witnesses will die as scripture says.

Yes Christ is greater but even he took on a human body to be kin with us like us one of us.

You want to agrue scripture with me then tighten up youer flow dj.

Ok, so the two witness will die. Who are the two witnesses? The olive trees and the candlesticks. Where does it say the Enoch, Moses, or Elijah are the actual witnesses?

Revelation 11:3-4 (King James Version)

3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


Where have I disputed that Jesus didn't take on a human body? I was clarifying the fact that Jesus the son of God was greater than Moses in response to the heresy in response to my original post.

Argue??? Where does that come from?

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by nlouise

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by nlouise
Good research on the post DISRAELI.



Moses and Elijah have their glorified bodies now.

What will happen to believers that are alive when Jesus returns at the end? Is he going to kill them and resurrect them? No. They will be changed into their glorified bodies.

If they had their glorified bodies now......they couldnt be killed as scripture says they will be. They are men that have never died in transfigured bodies.

So what if Christ just glorifes some while living.....how does this confront the witnesses? What if God wanted to preserve you for a mission say 2000 years from now? He wouldnt glorify you now but put you in a state of preservation.

Hay and you may have a hard time with this but Christ did have to do what the special prophets before Him had done. This shouldnt be to hard for you to understand. He let John baptize Him.

Show me the scripture that says that they have to be killed.
Show me the scripture that says that Moses and Elijah were transfigured also.
What is this state of preservation you are talking about?
Where did I say that Jesus didn't do what the prophets before him had done? He even observed the Sabbath.


Moses represented the Law, Elijah represented the Prophets.
Moses represented those who have died and gone home. Elijah represented those who won't die and will see Jesus at the second coming.
What is so hard to understand?

Moses didn't tranfer some special power to Jesus at the transfiguration. Supernatural power comes from God.

Originally posted by Myendica
reply to post by DISRAELI

 

oh but they were witnesses. They were the site of a pivotal moment. They contained information that couldn't be found anywhere else. Depends on definition of witness. I felt, since Revelations was sorta cryptic, perhaps we assumed they were living entities.

interesting indeed~! With ANY witness they ALWAYS have a Testimony=

testimony, in law and in religion, is a solemn attestation as to the truth of a matter. Wiki

In the law, testimony is a form of evidence that is obtained from a witness who makes a solemn statement or declaration of fact. Testimony may be oralor written, and it is usually made by oath or affirmation under penalty of perjury

. ~Wiki

In religion, testimony generally involves an inward belief[citation needed] or outward profession of faith or of personal religious experience.

~Wiki

however, I don't see the the 'towers' prophesying, or performing miracles as it is stated in scripture.

The Holy Spirit is an active force. So technically speaking, yes, it is already present here on Earth. It is God's active force.

reply to post by Freedom of Thought


thanks to the OP for this thread. This is one of my favorite topics. I agree on Enoch and Elijah.. Outside chance of Moses- whose body was specially prepared by angels after he was allowed to glimpse the promised land. Interesting thing about Enoch or Elijah is how would they be allowed to live these thousands of years(whereever they are)- my answer- what if they were travelling near the speed of light- check out the twin paradox. Assuming the two witnesses appear in say 3 years. You could calculate their speed..guessing the year Enoch was taken away(did not die).

Originally posted by nlouise

Show me the scripture that says that they have to be killed.
Show me the scripture that says that Moses and Elijah were transfigured also.
What is this state of preservation you are talking about?


Moses represented the Law, Elijah represented the Prophets.
Moses represented those who have died and gone home. Elijah represented those who won't die and will see Jesus at the second coming.
What is so hard to understand?

Moses didn't tranfer some special power to Jesus at the transfiguration. Supernatural power comes from God.

No one said that Moses transfered anything to Christ.....just relax.

Actualy Moses doesnt represent the law. The only folks that believe that were the pharisees. Moses represents Christ.

Elijah doesnt represent the prophets, he is nothing like 90% of the other prophets. Elijah is the only other person in the bible by name that was said to have a point in the future in which they would return.

If you dumb down Moses and Elijah as you have here you will learn nothing.

And back up your ideas if you would without overstaing if the thing is so easy to understand.




[edit on 30-8-2010 by Logarock]

reply to post by Logarock



Hear something said and understand what was said according to what they understand and then respond out of their error.

Elijah and Enoch are the two that have the most going for them as they both were of such faith to be taken before their death.

Any other two that hadnt passed of whatever causes in all of recorded history?

If not, then what would stop them from being the two to come and die for the Lord? I believe that is the sole purpose of their dissapearance from the Earth before death.

Just my 2cents.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


The Seven Spirits around the Throne are:

1. The Spirit of Grace (and supplication)
Hebrews 10:29
Zechariah 12:10
2.Spirit of Knowledge (and of the Fear of The Lord)
Isaiah 11:12

3. Spirit of Holiness
Romans 1:4


4. Spirit of Wisdom and Understanding
Genesis 28:3
Isaiah 11:2

5. Spirit of Judgment and Burning
Isaiah 4:4

6. Spirit of Counsel and Might
Isaiah 11:2

7. Spirit of Glory
1 Peter 4:14 .

reply to post by Y2KJMan


Elijah was taken by the fiery chariot
Enoch walked with God, and was not. (i.e. simply disappeared
from the face of the earth).
If you think about it, this is actually where the ideas for Star Trek;
"Beam me up, Scotty" originated.

The ability to change dimensions, time, and space all originate with God.

Originally posted by shadowgears911
The Holy Spirit is an active force. So technically speaking, yes, it is already present here on Earth. It is God's active force.

In New Testament understanding, the presence of the Holy Spirit is more than "technical". It's understood to be taking part in the lives of individual believers, and so taking part in the life of the church as a whole. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians ch3 v16, it is "dwelling in" the church. It is the presence of God himself in the church.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by nlouise

Show me the scripture that says that they have to be killed.
Show me the scripture that says that Moses and Elijah were transfigured also.
What is this state of preservation you are talking about?


Moses represented the Law, Elijah represented the Prophets.
Moses represented those who have died and gone home. Elijah represented those who won't die and will see Jesus at the second coming.
What is so hard to understand?

Moses didn't tranfer some special power to Jesus at the transfiguration. Supernatural power comes from God.

No one said that Moses transfered anything to Christ.....just relax.

Actualy Moses doesnt represent the law. The only folks that believe that were the pharisees. Moses represents Christ.

Elijah doesnt represent the prophets, he is nothing like 90% of the other prophets. Elijah is the only other person in the bible by name that was said to have a point in the future in which they would return.

If you dumb down Moses and Elijah as you have here you will learn nothing.

And back up your ideas if you would without overstaing if the thing is so easy to understand.




[edit on 30-8-2010 by Logarock]

I've been very relaxed all along, thank you.

If Moses didn't represent the Law, then why do we call them the Laws of Moses?

But Elijah was a prophet, and apparently he must have been a special prophet because he was 'taken'.

Where have I dummbed down Moses or Elijah? I simply said that Jesus was greater.

My ideas? I've not seen any scripture proof of any of your claims. I seriously doubt that you have even read the ones that I posted already, concerning your other claims.

Are you asking me to lay it all out for you because you really want to see it, or just to keep me busy so I don't debate 'blanket' statements?




edit: I am retracting the 'Melchizedek' research statement and about researching it for info on the 7 spirits. I see someone else posted who the 7 spirits are, and it looks like they have laid it out very nicely. Sorry about that.



[edit on 30-8-2010 by nlouise]

reply to post by Freedom of Thought

Originally posted by Freedom of Thought
reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

 

The Seven Spirits around the Throne are:

Thank you for spending the time to look those up.

Yes these are some of the gifts that are also attributed to the Holy Spirit. Knowledge, Counsel, Understanding, Wisdom, Fear of the Lord, Piety, Fortitude, Joy, Peace, Patience, Benignity, Goodness, Longanimity, Mildness, Faith, Modesty, and Continence.

But I am still seeking the identity's of these 7 Spirits. Who are they? What are their Biblical names other than Wisdom, Knowledge, etc. There must be some clues in the Bible that will point to the identity of these 7 Spirits, and I could probably make a pretty good argument for 6 of them.

Don't worry, I'm not a heretic. I'm just trying to approach some old concepts from a different angle in order to gain some insight.

Originally posted by Greensage
Can you not imagine the Force behind such a thing as described? Two living individuals of our world standing before the Nations which stand on the court of the Temple.
Can you not hear the Roar?! Can you not feel the Spirit Rise to such a fervor and Contemptment as such Words of Truth burn through the ears of the Masses?! OMG, it sets my hair a dancing!
Just knowing the capacity for Dramatization that Mankind has risen to, at this point in technology, is mind-blowing! I bet it is the Greatest Show on Earth!

I suppose that's what the film version would look like.
I've spent my time reading books instead of watching films, so my outlook is probably less visual. More "historical narrative" than film-script.

Originally posted by nlouise

Show me the scripture that says that they have to be killed.

Rev 11:7 ¶ And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.





[edit on 30-8-2010 by Logarock]

There are so many characters in this Great Story that is becoming. So as we look around we clearly see those who are filling the "Roles". I can certainly name a few.

I was struck with an uncanny thought when I ran into this article:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I could not help but think that our two Witnesses will Prophesy which means they will be speaking the Truth! This man wants to speak the Truth, I can feel it in my bones.

Everyone has the opportunity for Forgiveness, and Fidel is no exception.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by nlouise

Show me the scripture that says that they have to be killed.

Rev 11:7 ¶ And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.





[edit on 30-8-2010 by Logarock]

True, there is going to be a bloodbath against the believers. I picture something like the days of Hitler only on a world scale.

The witnesses could literally be Moses, Elijah, or Enoch. I see where people draw that conclusion.

It could also be metaphor, because Bible prophecy is also full of metaphor. and the two witness are described as the candlesticks and the olive trees.

I've seen good debates on both sides of the issue. I tend to think metaphor, but haven't any precise conclusion on that matter.