Lodge Was open, nobody cared....

reply to post by scooterstrats


Do not make posts complaining about people pre judging your group without getting to know it when in fact the group does exactly what the Original Poster of this thread is complaining about.

Hypocritical much?

Your group pre judges people and yet wants those same people that it pre judges to NOT pre judge your group.

Sigh. As far as we have come, so far we have yet still to go.

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps

Can you even read? I AM the OP. There are remedial reading classes everywhere if needed. Whats with the hostility? This was a civil and fairly intelligent thread for a while. I tried nicely to say that Masonry may not be for you, and thats fine. What is the problem?
We invite people to check it out before they join, if they dont like it, they dont join. Ample opportunity is given. If a person doesnt attempt to gain first-person knowledge to even to understand the fraternity and subsequently bashes it, that speaks volumes about that individuals motives. And prejudices, as you like to say. Masonry cant reject people it doesnt even know, and the inverse is true also. Calm down.

[edit on 8/30/10 by scooterstrats]

reply to post by scooterstrats


I do not see the need to resort to insults. I would hope we could have rational adult discourse. No need to stoop to this. I am not sure why your defense mechanism was triggered. I am sorry that you are so upset. Could you please not insult me?

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps


And I DO apologize for any perceived slight or insult. Thought that you didnt know I was the original poster. I added to my post prior tho this one for clarification. It crossed in the "ether".

[edit on 8/30/10 by scooterstrats]

Man, I go to my local lodge all the time - they have a library and museum that's open to everyone. The brothers are always totally nice and welcoming, and the books they stock in their library are awesome.

All the brothers I meet there are pretty old, though. Makes me sad that younger dudes don't seem very interested. Society is dumbing down, I guess.

reply to post by scooterstrats


Look let me quote the post that you just edited. You said

"If a person doesn't attempt to gain first-person knowledge to even to understand the fraternity and subsequently bashes it, that speaks volumes about that individuals motives".

But how does it make your fraternity look to reject someone simply on the basis that they do not believe in a God?

I am not saying that your organization should not have the right to select who it chooses.

I AM saying that you have no right to complain about people pre judging your organization when in fact your organization pre judges applicants before it ever gets to know them.

This to me seems to be living in glass house and throwing stones, pot kettle etc.

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps

But how does it make your fraternity look to reject someone simply on the basis that they do not believe in a God?

It makes the fraternity look like one that is concerned about your spirituality and your intentions in this life and the next. It makes the fraternity look like one with a rigid set of established rules, and a high standard for applicants that it would accept. It has nothing to do with pre-conceived notions.

How does it make the US government look to only accept Presidential applicants that are at least 35 years old?

How does it make schools look to only accept students that reside in their district?

Your reasoning is faulty. Our requirements are public knowledge, and they have not changed. They are what they are, and we are not seeking input on who we should or shouldn't accept. We are simply opening our doors and welcoming questions from those that are either interested in joining, or interested in what we stand for.

It is disconcerting when people would rather stand in the shadows and throw lies and insults than to step into the light and ask direct questions, then at the same time criticize us for being secretive? There is very, very little that is secretive about Freemasonry. We are much more forthcoming than any college fraternity, country club, or good ol' boy political network.

You will never meet a Mason that will not answer your questions honestly and directly. Try it if you don't believe it.

believing in a higer power a god of some kind is at the utmost forfront of the fraternity, if you do not belive in a God then the fraternity is not open to you.

Freemasonry will never bend on this requirment it is essential in almost every asspect of what we do.

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps

I am not saying that your organization should not have the right to select who it chooses.

I AM saying that you have no right to complain about people pre judging your organization when in fact your organization pre judges applicants before it ever gets to know them.

This to me seems to be living in glass house and throwing stones, pot kettle etc.
Well here we are at the crux of the matter. We do have the right, and we use it. Nobody is rejected outright without meeting the few requirements mandated.

On the other hand, We do not PRE-judge. Any "judgement "is made after becoming acquainted with any applicant. I DO complain about those who PRE-judge an organization that they have little or no knowledge about. This comment is NOT directed at you , only the many others on ATS who attack what they dont know anything about. Masons are attacked daily by those with no direct knowledge of which they speak.
We dont pre-judge (prejudice). Each person is vetted then voted on. I have never seen ANYONE rejected without first meeting and getting to know the man, and even then, I PERSONALLY have never seen anyone blackballed. It just may not be what you think.

I've signed up to take a tour of a masonic lodge, but still awaiting for a reply from the individual who is responsible for doing so. I'm hoping I'll get a reply as soon as possible. It seems to be a very beautiful building with lots of unusual type of art there, so I'm excited about checking it out and asking a few questions here and there.

reply to post by ReAlIzAtIoN


There should be a sign out front stating meeting hours. Show up an hour or so before and I'm sure there will be somebody willing to show you ! You might get a free meal too !

reply to post by scooterstrats


Well, I'll surely try that as well.

Thanks.

Camp doesn't appeal as much to a cynical generation.

We are the generation that was brought up on God, Fire and Brimstone and Technology. We've questioned the God part, and kept the Fire And Brimstone.

The men that you want to attract in today's society are likely to have grave concerns over a group that doesn't accept women. Enough to trigger off their inner Western Democratic Society alarm bells.

And I know all the clap trap - I've heard it. No amount of pretty bows on it changes what it is.

Then you have THIS stuff. There has to be something that appeals to some men that they get over their religious aversion, AND their cultural alarm bells. That thing that makes them get over it....is likely to be an urge to be involved in something they suspect might curry them some power or favour.

I'll grant that these guys probably need more guidance than most to add some compassion to their basic makeup. Don't you need some of the other guys who already have it, and that you aren't appealling too?

You have to deal with this obvious split between what you are and what your goals are.

This isn't news to you. I know you have members telling you the same thing.

Decide what you are and what your goals are. You could wait for all the British-French based modern countries to return to being the way they were ..... if you think that is better. If you do I'd seriously question your judgement. OR you find a way to appeal in the cultures that are still such in the middle ages AND to your modern British-French based cultures.

Lose some camp. Keep your Fraternity. Lose the male-sponsorship. Elevate the Sorieties. Give people a message of works they can cleave to that makes their hearts full of light.

If you can do those five things, you can keep your system that works in the other cultures and appeal here.

Stop being old men, and just be men.

reply to post by Aeons


Sincerely, thank you for your input. You do have a few cogent ideas amongst the backhanded complements. But we don't need nor solicit advice on how to run a FRATERNITY. Your icon implies that you are female. Did you criticize or try to join fraternities while in college? Sorry, that sounds snarky. But I fail to see how discussing admitting females to a fraternity is pertinent here. I didnt try to join sororities whilst in school, let alone today.

[edit on 8/30/10 by scooterstrats]

reply to post by scooterstrats


We encourage the Knights of Proto to join as many sororities as possible and to get pictures and telephone numbers too!

Yet another thing that makes the Knights of Proto a much better choice in Evil Secret Societies!

By the way scooterstrats you seem like a great guy and all but why all the off topic posting about Mason's in my Knights of Proto Thread?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Well Proto,you seem to be a swell guy also, but isn't my name at the top of the thread? And a second line just for giggles !

reply to post by scooterstrats


The one thing you absolutely need is some advice.

What I've just written I know some men in this fraternity have advised of before. One of them made some pretty good inroads into the Shriners with this before he died.

But if this fraternity prefer dying off and slowly moving into smaller and smaller venues, and losing your base in the small towns to the apostolic movement that hates it....who am I to stand in the way?

[edit on 2010/8/30 by Aeons]

Wow, Aeons may be the one that gets me off the dime to actually ask to join.

The thought that an all-men society would be an obsolete idea -- that would be a shame. Actually I was not focusing on that aspect in my thoughts about it. The spiritual stuff, the friendship stuff, the good works stuff, the time and money commitments (especially those -- I am bad at staying committed to groups I start with) -- those were the thoughts going thru my mind.

But in other organizations I am associated with, I've seen women try to break a male-only culture. Why? We're not trying to break female-only cultures. Anyway, I think male-only is a good thing sometimes. And then the rest of the time we can say "vive la difference" and enjoy it.

Originally posted by humbleseeker
reply to post by tigpoppa

 

I am sorry you feel that way about the fraternity that you chose to join. I assume you are not one of the "old men" Then its up to you to take Masonry into the future. Certainly not by taking anything away from the ritual's. Maybe you should sudy and research what the rituals are about and why we do what we do.

Masonry will never die out, it may become smaller, but smaller with high quality for now it seems only people who are truly seeking light are joining. Being a Mason is a high honor and should not be taken lightly.

Get back involved and, help lead. The "old men" dont want to run things forever, the yoounger generation of Masonry has to stand up to the plate and get to work!

I was in a fraternity and college LXA, were the largest in the world. Masons are just doddering old men stuck in the past. Those rituals can be cut down! They wont do it because like you said I need to appreciate them wasting my time. Their not fun to watch their not entertaining, lets be honest, I wont say what parts but you know what parts at open and close we can cut out! I mean seriously if they dont adapt then their gonna die.

The old men only want people to like you said read about it and keep it alive. The idea is there and I am down with the underlying principals that the parts i want to change HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH!! Changing what I want to change does not change any of the meaning or the beliefs it just streamlines it. Sitting there watching the same thing again and again and traveling to other lodges to see the same thing by different people just killed it for me. Its soooooo boring it doesnt help anyone get jobs or network since their all to old and out of the industry to assist anyone. I mean there is no point in this organization. I rely on my fraternity more for connections then the masons in my area simply because their so old and out of touch they wouldnt even know how to help me if they wanted too.

Also I never read on any websites about them being weird. They seemed fine to me. They also seemed very boring. Everything took forever to get done. I got things to do, people to see and such. The only fun part was going to the bar afterwards. If you consider hanging with old men fun which I dont mind. Thing is I love listening to their stories but the rituals for open and close killed it for me cant go back and never will.

Originally posted by oniongrass
Wow, Aeons may be the one that gets me off the dime to actually ask to join.

The thought that an all-men society would be an obsolete idea -- that would be a shame. Actually I was not focusing on that aspect in my thoughts about it. The spiritual stuff, the friendship stuff, the good works stuff, the time and money commitments (especially those -- I am bad at staying committed to groups I start with) -- those were the thoughts going thru my mind.

But in other organizations I am associated with, I've seen women try to break a male-only culture. Why? We're not trying to break female-only cultures. Anyway, I think male-only is a good thing sometimes. And then the rest of the time we can say "vive la difference" and enjoy it.

Actually, I specifically gave a map on how to not break their fraternity structure.

Smart men who can read - I wish there were more of them.

Maybe you guys could add that to your list of works to persue.