Lodge Was open, nobody cared....

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps


Unfortunately you would not be accepted. Not because we think that being an Atheist is evil or anything like that, but that you would be required to take several oaths that would not be binding if you didn't believe in a supreme creator. Much like if you went to court and swore on a bible, as far as your concerned, a Betty Crocker cook book would have the same relevance, am I correct?

Plus a lot of what we are taught comes from the bible. Being an atheist, I don't know if you consider the bible to be truthful. I suppose that would be a personal decision. But those are the rules.

reply to post by network dude


Thanks for answering honestly. I was not sure if it was code or was meant to be a metaphor for something else. I am glad to understand and thank you for telling me.

Then I don't think I could join, because I do not want to swear oaths. In the US system, one is allowed to "affirm" if one does not want to swear.

kingjbible.com...
Matthew 5:34 - 37

34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Originally posted by oniongrass
Then I don't think I could join, because I do not want to swear oaths. In the US system, one is allowed to "affirm" if one does not want to swear.

Just curious, but what's your stance on marriage? Isn't a marriage vow the same thing as an oath?

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by oniongrass
Then I don't think I could join, because I do not want to swear oaths. In the US system, one is allowed to "affirm" if one does not want to swear.

Just curious, but what's your stance on marriage? Isn't a marriage vow the same thing as an oath?

Mine was a promise.

If I did bend the rules to make it (I'm not sure I did) it was for a more important purpose. I cannot consider an organization, Masonry or any other, to be as important as my marriage and family.

reply to post by oniongrass


I can not say anything negative or would I want to. You must come of your own free will to be a Mason and yes you must swear an oath. That is your decision. Fremasonry is not for everyone. Although since we are pointing out biblical passages about oaths I will not use the old testament because it is filled with oaths and covanents between people, nations, God and even God to the people.

I will use Acts 18:18-19 So Paul still remained a good while. Then he took leave of the brethren and sailed for Syria, and Priscilla and Aquila were with him. He had his hair cut off at Cenchrea, for he had taken a vow. NKJV

Originally posted by humbleseeker
reply to post by oniongrass

 

I can not say anything negative or would I want to. You must come of your own free will to be a Mason and yes you must swear an oath. That is your decision. Fremasonry is not for everyone. Although since we are pointing out biblical passages about oaths I will not use the old testament because it is filled with oaths and covanents between people, nations, God and even God to the people.

I will use Acts 18:18-19 So Paul still remained a good while. Then he took leave of the brethren and sailed for Syria, and Priscilla and Aquila were with him. He had his hair cut off at Cenchrea, for he had taken a vow. NKJV

In my personal interpretation I don't give much weight to what Paul wrote or did. (Even though some text from Paul was read at my wedding.) But maybe cutting his hair ended his vow or was punishment for making a vow.

I googled for what these Masonic oaths apparently are, and the one I found didn't look too startling. It's really more of a promise in front of God, like a marriage promise. There are penalties for violation too, very serious ones, but that doesn't bother me. My view of "swearing" is that one attempts to make a commitment in the name of God, and one can only make a credible commitment in the name of oneself, to do things within one's own power, not to "promise to turn one hair white or black" which one cannot do and one should not presume to commit God to do. The oath I found on the internet appears to respect that distinction.

Let me know if you think I'm underestimating or misinterpreting it -- assuming we have the same oaths in mind.

I thought brother Masons were supposed to keep secrets? Why would they reveal their secrets to anyone who walked in?

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Well I guess you dont no much about Freemasonry, Yes there are secerets that are kept and any good Mason will not make these public. Although there is a multitude of information about Masonry that is open to the public, and the lodge rooms are not secert or private enless it is in session. Many lodges try to get the word out that we exist and are accepting members. We will accept they just have to ask. Then if found worthy we will impart the secerets and light of Masonry to you.

reply to post by scooterstrats


Getting back to the OP.......

scooterstrats, aside from a sandwich board at roadside for a week beforehand, did your Lodge not do any other promotion? Maybe somebody could've mentioned something to your local community access cable channel or maybe local newspaper?

My Lodge participates in a yearly event called "Doors Open" and that always generates a lot of traffic (oddly enough, more of the ladies than guys...go figure ). As well, have you guys've worked at raising your profile in the community by...oh say MasoniChIP or involving yourselves identifiably in some other community events or causes? Might prove to be a better investment of time.

Competition for people's attention these days is such that a simple sign is just another bit of background visual clutter and obviously from your experience, easily overlooked. As for anti-Masons chomping at the bit to have a boo inside an actual Masonic temple, my experience is that (like 9/11 Truthers) they tend to seem most prevalent on the Internet

Originally posted by oniongrass
I cannot consider an organization, Masonry or any other, to be as important as my marriage and family.

Nor should it be. If you put Masonry (or any other similar pursuit ahead of your family, your calling or your faith, you do a disservice to all.

Family first.

Career second.

Faith third.

Masonry (ideally) fourth

Originally posted by humbleseeker
Well I guess you dont no much about Freemasonry

You're right, he doesn't. vcwxvwligen likes to log on for a few days, stir up the hornet's nest without any actual proof of anything, then disappear for a few months at a time. Ignore him. It's just not worth the effort to try to set him straight.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


as far as i know, in the state of California, the only secrets that are not to be discussed are the modes of recognition, grips, words, and the legend of the 3rd degree. Everything else is able to be discussed.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by humbleseeker
Well I guess you dont no much about Freemasonry

You're right, he doesn't. vcwxvwligen likes to log on for a few days, stir up the hornet's nest without any actual proof of anything, then disappear for a few months at a time. Ignore him. It's just not worth the effort to try to set him straight.

Wow, I never knew that providing factual details was "stirring up the hornet's nest" !

You're provided no proof in your own right, so there you go.

My guess is that "setting me straight" means shutting me up.

Originally posted by bushidomason
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

as far as i know, in the state of California, the only secrets that are not to be discussed are the modes of recognition, grips, words, and the legend of the 3rd degree. Everything else is able to be discussed.

Yes, and if I refuse the Kool-Aid, you'll tell me that it's made with agave nectar instead of Splenda.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Actually, it is in the C.M.C for California that the "Secrets" that aren't to be discussed are what i just told you and also the grand hailing sign, which i forgot to mention as well, is not to be discussed as well. You may look this up yourself. I really don't care what you say...I am telling you the technical standpoint of discussion of masonic secrets within my jurisdiction.

Originally posted by humbleseeker
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

Well I guess you dont no much about Freemasonry, Yes there are secerets that are kept and any good Mason will not make these public. Although there is a multitude of information about Masonry that is open to the public, and the lodge rooms are not secert or private enless it is in session. Many lodges try to get the word out that we exist and are accepting members. We will accept they just have to ask. Then if found worthy we will impart the secerets and light of Masonry to you.

Or, do an internet search.

Any 'mystical' secrets masonry can reveal are probably somewhere on the internet.

I'm not sure why a Masonic Lodge would have an open house. It just sounds too commercial for some reason.

Thing is, most people don't care anything about the Masons *or* the anti-Masons. They would think the anti-Masonic conspiracy theorists are wackjobs that are totally divorced from reality, and they would consider the Masons a nice little club that promotes charity whilst participating in goofy rituals for no essential purpose, but most likely a waste of time

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I'm not sure why a Masonic Lodge would have an open house. It just sounds too commercial for some reason.

Don't know that I'd agree. We've been part of a program called "Doors Open" where buildings that normally aren't open to the public throw their doors open for one or two days on a weekend and it certainly generated a lot of interest in our neck of the woods from people who'd by the temple but never at a time when it was open. If nothing else, it helped dispel a good number of misconceptions that some people have about Masonry.

reply to post by bushidomason


My point is that the Freemasons claim not to hold any secrets, and yet they tell you about certain secrets that can't be revealed. Sounds like a contradiction to me.