ATS Is On Facebook

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
Does ATS really need more members that bad? Am I just not seeing this correctly?

As has been stated, repeatedly, ad-nauseam, we never expect to receive new members from Facebook.

Ok. So if I take what you've said above at face value and accept this wasn't a revenue-boosting move

What were you thinking ?

Are you saying you were unaware of the massive distrust in which Facebook is held by even the general community, let alone those who patronise your Ignorance Denying Conspiracy Site ?

It has to be asked


And edited to add: Could you not see in advance how even the suggestion that ATS would party with Facebook would be seen as a massive breach of trust --- as direct contradiction of everything ATS is supposed to stand for ?

[edit on 24-8-2010 by Dock9]

Ok. Off to do some gardening and then for a walk


All the best for now

reply to post by Dock9


I won't quote the whole post
But the entirety of it was well said!

"Apple polishing"....That is funny..I liken it more to public turd polishing.

I wonder (because we will never know the truth) just how much solidarity within the moderator ranks there really is on this move.

Of course, the members perception of total agreement among admin. must be outwardly maintained.

The level of extreme depth data mining and tracking at FB precludes the need for the mining to detect usernames and passwords. Keep in mind that ALL of your key-clicks are tracked and saved. Yes, and consider the future systems that will do who-knows-what with your total on-line existence.
Forget about your perceived anonymous status. It is not real. Future analytical systems will shred your head with the data they will provide about your life. A complete database of every move you make throughout you whole life could be detailed if needed. Minute by minute Day after day. From the moment you are born. Think you can't be traced
to your computer? Did you register your operating system on-line?? Use your real name?? Just a morsel of food for thought.The banquet table of information tech has been set. We sit down to the feast at our own risk.

Edit to add:

Thanks for NOT closing this thread Bill..that would have been extremely snarky.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by Zeptepi]

Originally posted by Zeptepi
The level of extreme depth data mining and tracking at FB precludes the need for the mining to detect usernames and passwords. Keep in mind that ALL of your key-clicks are tracked and saved. Yes, and consider the future systems that will do who-knows-what with your total on-line existence.

Pft... that's nothing.

I'm going to change course here a bit, stick with me.

By no means am I attempting to diminish the very real concerns many people have about data-gathering on Facebook and similar sites that track and retain actual personal information. But myself personally (someone whose real-life name has been associated with grass-roots conspiracy speculation since 1985), I'm not concerned about using it. In the grand scheme of things, it's minor (for now).


Do you have a Costco membership card?

Perhaps a shopper/saver club card for the local supermarket?

Maybe more than one? It doesn't matter, all "they" need is one, but more is better.


In the early-1990's, the Wegmans supermarket chain out of Rochester, NY spun-off JTS Checkout Solutions (the name has changed a couple times since, and I don't know the current name). Using sophisticated software written by a supremely talented team of MIT master-degreed computer science geniuses, the "smart" shoppers club system was born. On the surface, the data "appeared" to supply the consumer with a weekly flyer of coupons and specials tailored specifically to their shopping needs. One home might get butcher shop specials, while the house next door would see specials on baby food and diapers.

Brilliant. Their chain of stores expanded quickly. But not because of the smart highly-targeted marketing, they sold their computer modeling systems under a white label to dozens of grocery and drug store chains across the country. The coupons are really not the point, the real value is in the data.

Their software analyzed your in-store purchases and cross-referenced those purchases with all other demographic and psychographic data available... including your credit card purchase history which is available for a stunningly small price. Correlate local public record information about where you live, the average income of your ZIP+4, your vehicles, your credit report, and a slew of other information that is perfectly legal to obtain, and you have all you need to describe you to a tee.

As it turned out, supermarket purchases are the all-important basis for a stunningly accurate model of who you are, and a projected LTV (lifetime value) for any consumer goods from toothpaste to luxury cars.

Oh... but it gets better, it's perfectly legal for them to sell all of that -- along with your very private data -- to whomever would wish to pay. Without your permission. Without your knowledge. And... all these systems buy-and-sell each other's data (for example, a grocery store might by your Barnes & Nobel information to aid their psychographic model) to build ever more accurate computer models of you and your family.


Ever move and wonder how your Crate & Barrel catalog found your new address within weeks, and you never told them? Thank the consumer modeling geniuses from MIT who worked at JTS Checkout Solutions.

Today's software is hundreds of times more sophisticated with real-time at-the-register modeling and live updates to data partners.



This is real. It happens every second of every day to millions of people without their knowledge.

Scared yet? No? Read on...

Here's the kicker... it's perfectly legal for elected officials to buy that information and cross-reference it with your tax records for the purposes of targeted political campaign marketing. So there you have it... the "government" with an incredibly accurate demographic and psychographic model of who you are, combined with your work history and tax information, all in one easy to use computer file.





Facebook has a long way to go before they might catch up to the sophisticated computer modeling of the offline world. In fact... what happens now on Facebook is quite literally "child's play" compared to the intrusive modeling accomplished without anyone's knowledge or permission.




So yeah... knowing all this I tend to think what's going on at Facebook is minor in comparison. But please, use common sense, don't post your sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll pictures on Facebook... it'll haunt you. But used with caution and care, it can be a nice way to regain contact with old friends with whom you've lost touch.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
As has been stated, repeatedly, ad-nauseam, we never expect to receive new members from Facebook.

I'm not one of these ''haters'' that unfairly criticises ATS, and I'm not entirely against this ATS/facebook link, but this doesn't sit right with some of the previous comments.

While attracting new members mightn't be the primary motive for this facebook move, it is certainly going to be a side-effect of it.

You can't, on one hand, say that you want ATS, and the subjects that we discuss, to reach a wider audience, while on the other hand, saying that you don't expect to receive new members !

It's obvious that we will get new members, purely through this move of putting ATS on facebook

isnt facebook being used by the federal government to monitor peoples political views and everything of the like??????

honestly, in all reality i dont see how this is a good thing...

somebody please weigh in.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Yep, It is indeed a matter of perspective.
I appreciate your response. In fact, I had deleted a large part of my draft of my previous post that you have eloquently illustrated.You expounded on the point I was trying to make. Spooky

I agree that given the amount of data about each and every one of us that is continuously being collated,on a daily basis, our individual anonymity is illusory at best. Although you have put your real name out there openly, many others would like to hold onto the last gasp of the illusion. And you have clearly made that as possible as you can here.

I suppose that If I am completely honest with myself and ATS, I am just reluctant to change. Or to see what some of us here view as our own little conspiracy "fort" changing in some unpredictable fashion.(but it has been changing continuously for years) Really that is what seems to be the issue more than the percived notion that you have sold our collective souls to the devil or compromised our trust in some way.

I Do have a FB and have seen the ATS feed. (liked it even). It really is no big deal when viewed from a reasonable perspective.In The overall scheme of things.

Lets all hope that this will work out well.

At least a little better than that Anonymous posting experiment a while back.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


how long can a good thing(ats) be kept under wraps. let us not be pigioned wholed-mainstream has nothing to do with this site-apples and oranges. so let us spread knowledge with open minds and maybe just maybe mainstream will understand why this web-site serves a greater purpose than hate...how about peace harmoney and oneness--its all here!!

Looks like everyones just been sold out... Only a matter of time till the same data mining / selling of info / loss of privacy of facebook starts to happen here on ATS. Pity to see it happening.. Will never join facebook for those reasons among others. Will still use ATS for present as there are interesting threads to read..
and it does keep me informed of events there in the west.. Will just search for other sources of info to use should things go pear shaped due to ATS linking to facebook.. Remember boys and girls.. TRUST NO ONE ..

I wasn't going to post because I was thinking along the "if you have nothing nice to say..." rule, but I know ATS staff do appreciate constructive criticism. I am very much against this move and do not believe it is in the best interests of ATS. FB and ATS are almost polar opposites in terms of both purpose and privacy. Having ATS associated with FB is very damaging to the reputation of this website because it likens this forum to a Social-networking service.

One can only hope "Higher Ups" of this forum will reconsider their stance on this highly controversial move.

[edit on 25/8/2010 by Dark Ghost]

As soon as you make your FB account you agree to have ALL your data and personal information 'tranferred' to the US - you're basically signing away your God given and legal rights over your own 'Persona' to a CIA funded private Corporation, voluntarily.

Think about that for a second, imagine the implications of this in a Court of Law process.

A foreign sovereign national is basically signing away his 'rights' and 'Persona' to the US Legal Jurisdiction.

*SNIP*

EDIT: I thought this was mindblowing stuff so I transferred the rest of this post to my thread about these dangers of social networking and the coming Internet surveillance developments.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 25-8-2010 by Chevalerous]

Originally posted by Chevalerous
As soon as you make your FB account you agree to have ALL your data and personal information 'tranferred' to the US - you're basically signing away your God given and legal rights over your own 'Persona' to a CIA funded private Corporation, voluntarily.

Think about that for a second, imagine the implications of this in a Court of Law process.

A foreign sovereign national is basically signing away his 'rights' and 'Persona' to the US Legal Jurisdiction.

So does this means that they can basically kidnap me anywhere in the world and 'transfer' my 'Persona' on a rendition flight to the US Court system & Jurisdiction, legally?

This would mean according to Contract Law which I voluntarily signed to join FB - that if I as an EU citizen commit a 'crime' in the EU or on the Net which is against the Law in the US - my 'Persona' can be legally 'transferred' to the US Court system and US Jurisdiction legally - even if this so called 'crime' is not illegal and punishable in the EU Legal System & Jurisdiction

So these jackals can basically pick me up anywhere in the world for whatever reason, legally - and my Government can't really do much about it since I voluntarily of my own free will requested to STAND under US Jurisdiction and US Laws in the digital contract agreement!

Just frakking mindblowing! - smart evil conniving corporate-lawyer bastards!

And not only you are affected, many people around you in real life who are connected with your 'persona' can be affected as well by something similar which I would like to describe as a digital version of the "transferred intent" doctrine.

Just frakking unbelievable!

Ok Bill tell us he is wrong
OK bill tell us he is wrong
there have been some serious questions that havent been answered here. this is one of them.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by Lil Drummerboy]

I'm there, love it. I get a quick glimpse of what is on ATS when I am on FB. Great job. Again, I love it, what can I say.

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
there have been some serious questions that havent been answered here. this is one of them.

lest we forget, ATS is NOT a democracy. We have no vote or no
say so and our opinions do not count. We are sheeple once
again

Funny how 1913 comes to mind right about now

reply to post by boondock-saint
Yes, I know,.
I am seriously concerned about this coupling.
And am very well aware that the few of us that ARE speaking out will have the least bit of concern to the LLC that this is

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by XPLodER
was this level of oposition aticipated by the staff ?

Hrm... 12-15 vocal people that are obstinate regarding a forward-looking position related to a new site initiate... it's about normal.

No matter what we do to "push the ball in a forward direction," there will be those that resist moving forward. We've been dealing with it for seven years while we've been moving forward.

Unless of course forward is into the jaws of the beast?

I can't understand why you want QUANTITY over QUALITY. Unless of course there's something that's being kept from us.

Why would you willingly ignore 13 pages of protests (much like those in power ignore our protests on the streets) and continue to mock those that DO protest.

Or is it just about you?

Maybe you should take a step back and re-read every page on here and take a breather instead of mocking us...

How about stock options?
maybe offer a piece of the pie?

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
How about stock options?
maybe offer a piece of the pie?

hey drummer
are you selling out to the corporation???
You see where that idea has landed Wall Street??

reply to post by boondock-saint

HA HA hA,.
just fishin,.
everything here is too small to keep

Sticks in the throat, doesn't it, hooking up with FB ? For me it's not so much that ATS has got its own page on a social networking site, it's that the owner of that particular site is such a dreadful individual, one rotten to the core. I'd hate to contribute anything which would make any of his enterprises more successful. That's why I'm not a FB member, that and the data protection concerns so many of you have written about with such conviction.

I guess smaller, independent website owners are now faced with the same dilemma. Hosting a site this large doesn't come cheap and it's got to be paid for, somehow. New members mean more clicks, more clicks mean greater revenue. And in this difficult economic environment I think it's the lesser of two evils to take the advertisers buck and remain independent with your head held high. I defy anyone to read SO's OP and consider him an enthusiast for new direction, but what's the alternative ?

My only concern is that if you become too dependant on someone else's dollar, you start dancing to their tune and eventually forget your own. I'm confident the membership here would never let that happen.