ADHD doesnt exist

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not.

That ADHD exists is unequivocal.

That ADHD is over-diagnosed is also unequivocal.

And anyone who has had an ADD/ADHD child or experience with.

Will agree with you 100%

Originally posted by Skyfloating
But if "improvement" means they shut up and sit down and let themselves be indoctrinated, thats no improvement.

You are confusing two very different subjects. This is not about resisting indoctrination or boredom, this is about the capacity to learn, to focus, the ability to be still. In ADHD there is no such capacity.

I've been diagnosed with ADHD and believe me it's real. I for the life of me can't sit still and do nothing. And it gets in the way of things. I do believe kids abuse the illness but for some like me it's a reality. My therapist explained to me that it was due to a part of my brain not developing correctly. People who do have the illness have a much different reaction to the drugs for it than people who don't have it. I can't use it recreationally because it calms me down and let me concentrate on tasks that usually my brain is too overactive to focus on. It's not just a matter of not wanting to sit still, it strts to effect behavior negatively. Since treatment I'm much more mellow and behave calmly which before was fairly difficult. You can't say something is fake when you have had no experience with.

[edit on 22-8-2010 by marsvoltafan74]

Originally posted by intrepid
Sorry Sky. ADHD is very real. It's genetic. My mother has it, I have it

You are the top-poster in the post-count ranking. That means that when it comes to something that interests you, you have no deficit of attention at all.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Here is some real evidence. I recently volunteered helping to tutor some kids at a farm labor camp. The staff there was very strict on the kids, even though this was supposed to be a fun camp. Even working there, I was told exactly what to do - throw the football to the kid while he stood on the cone, and then read to the kids and have them sit cross-legged and look at me.

I worked with two kids who were kind of ADHD, so I would read them non-fiction books with pictures about bugs and stuff and took them on walks to look for ants. This didn't go over very well with the staff.

I haven't been in a real public school classroom lately, but I bet it could be similar.

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
my belief moderators were people held to a higher standard, and who understood that part of "Deny Ignorance" (the site's motto) was presenting evidence for any claim made, rather than assuming your own thoughts and opinions were worth the same as scientific investigation.

I actually just posted evidence that the British Psychological Society agrees with me...I was surprised to find that myself

So you believe that someone who posts his personal opinion based on life experience and without links to researchers should be banned from the fairly simple task of Moderating a website?



Weird.

FredT is a good example. Whenever he presents something or comments on a thread, it is well researched and couched in proper scientific skepticism.

I am not FredT and I am neither a scientist nor a skeptic.

Originally posted by stars15k
I have seen this same logic used on just about every medical issue where clinical observations are used for diagnosis, not laboratory findings. And it's not just with with mental disease. I have two of them, depression and fibromyalgia. Both are very real. Both will forever change my life. Both have been thoroughly bashed by non-medical commentors on various forums.
To make such a blanket claim without medical knowledge is not right. It's mean-spirited and rude.

Its a huge leap to imply Id also reject the existence of depression and fibromyalgia. That is not what is being said.

What is being said is that hyperactive children are not mentally ill, they are just nervous.

I will agree that everything a child does is labeled and labeled wrongly. However, ADHD does in fact exist...and ignoring that fact is really really...moronic.

My 6 year old is about to be screened for ADHD, I don't believe he has it - and that is why I am getting him tested.

It might sound back to front but I'm sick of teachers telling me that me boy might have a "behavioural" problem because he finds it hard to concentrate in class. Okay, so he'd rather talk to his friends, or play Ninja's or tell stories - HE'S SIX for goodness sake.

We already have Tarquin on a completely artificial colours/preservative/additive free diet. EVERYTHING that goes in his mouth gets thoroughly scrutinised before it goes into our trolley. We make a lot of own foods (pasta, pasta sauces, yogurt, bread, muesli bars etc etc) to keep the artificial stuff out. I can always tell when Tarquin has had something out of someone else's lunch box because he is a complete handful on the trip home.

I have read on a few forums that there is a connection between the protein in milk and behaviour. Tarquin had a milk sensitivity as a child that resulted in some pretty horrific psoriasis. We took him off Dairy and the psoriasis cleared up. I've often wondered if there was a link between the milk sensitivity, the dairy and the behaviour.

An interesting thread, Whilst I do believe that ADD/ADHD do indeed exist, I think too many kids are being misdiagnosed with it.

I dont think a lot of ats members replying to this post understand where the OP is coming from .. He/she is saying it is unnatural to the human body and psyche to sit controllably and listen to old people rant and lecture.

Society is designed for the mass populations to conform and participate in it. The leaders of society dont want "unconttrollable" kids/people running around making it look okay. its all about the money in society, but to the human body and psyche it has nothing to do with money at all. The natural homo sapien's body is designed to run and play of free will for good health anf fun. not to sit around for a the majority of the day listening to bs

of course the mojority of you will disagree with the OP, that is the obvious because you were conformed from day one as were you parents and so on. Just because one child would rather run and play like nature intended their body to do doesnt mean he/she is "mentally ill" lol .. and if you belive so well you must be the mentally ill one haha

its part of our nature as human beings to be active and have tons of energy, you think our anchient ancestors sat around listening to bs math and, geo, social studies etc etc ? Noope they were out iving and experiencing the world like nature intended.

So IMHO the OP is completely right, and from the stand point of our NATURAL homo sapien bodies Op is right. ADHD is a bs way of saying your child is not conforming to society here is a medication for tht haha total craaap society is..

Love and peace
Kelliott

Children that don't conform and are not interested in what we show them! Impossible! Have you ever hard of a computer to refuse programming? To be bored by it ? Wait, children are not some kind of machines ?...

“We’re bringing up a generation in this country in which you either sit down, shut up and do what you’re told, or you get diagnosed and drugged,” he points out.

Breggin considers the situation to be “a national tragedy.” “To inflict these drugs on the growing brains of infants and children is wrong and abusive,” he contends.

The kids who get drugged are often our best, brightest, most exciting and energetic children, he points out. “In the long run, we are giving children a very bad lesson that drugs are the answer to emotional problems.”

cryptogon.com...

[edit on 22-8-2010 by pai mei]

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

It is a neurological disorder, and more a disease/disorder of the mind.

Most girls who have it present with vastly different symptoms than little boys, including daydreaming, scatterbrainedness, messy rooms, disorganization.

Messy rooms and daydreaming are no indicators of mental illness.

There is plenty of evidence stating this disease/disorder is real.

There is evidence that something else is going on in the brains and chemistry of these kids, not that they are "ill".

I do not understand how this thread is able to stand with no evidence

Would you too like it removed?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Skyfloating.....

I think you have started a very interesting discussion & I don't think your thread should be "removed".

I think the problem might perhaps be the title.....perhaps it's a little "awkward".....a little "absolute".

It might perhaps be better if the title left a little more "wriggle room".

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
I stepped into the living room, and she ran and jumped over the back of the sofa, bounced off the sofa cushions, ran into the dining room, leapt upon a chair, and from there to the table top. She ran the length of the table, jumped onto a chair, onto the floor. Poof! She was gone, and as we heard screaming from another room, we dashed into the parents bedroom, where she had evidently pulled a bookcase over on herself, as she was trying to climb it. The parent's were in tears.

So yeah, it's real, and I hope this gives you a mental picture of what it actually looks like.

I could agree that this kid may need help...except, its a three year old and they are often all over the place.

But supposing it does need some nerve-calmers, change of nutrition or more love in the family or whatever: Is it really necessary to overdose a three-year-old on Meds and label it "mentally ill" for life?

I know it's hard to be around unruly, challenging kids all day, and yes, some action should be taken to get behaviors under control, so teachers can do their jobs without constant disruptions. We ask far too much of teachers as it is.

A question that should be asked imo is: Is passively sitting in a chair all day the appropriate form of schooling?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Respectfully, as a moderator, your posts should include some type of scientific evidence from published papers. You are moderating a medical bored, and stating theory without published basis would get you nowhere in the academic community.

Secondly, ADHD/ ADD are, in fact, real mental disorders that present with specific physiological pathologies. For instance, there are severe abnormalities in dopamine transporters and receptors in those with ADD/ADHD. Those with ADD/ADHD have markedly decreased bioavailability of dopamine transporters as well as receptors, which play a key role in what we like to call the 'reward pathway'. (The link includes PET scans if words and statistics aren't enough.)
Familial studies also show strong genetic basis for ADD/ADHD. Base code mutations in the sequences for the DRD4 and DAT1 genes (both encode for dopamine receptors) cause either hyperactive reuptake of dopamine or a subsensitive receptor (leading to a larger uptake of dopamine), respectively.
I find that when people see a physiological malfunction, they are more likely to accept a mental disorder as 'real', rather than simply basing the disorder on behavioral abnormalities.

Now, yes, ADD/ADHD is over-diagnosed. Yes, we are giving very strong medication to many children who simply don't need it or have not been given other therapeutical options such as changes in diet, environmental stimuli, etc. And, yes, the average public school classroom has become more of a babysitting tool for the masses rather than a way to meaningfully educate our children.
Does this mean that a mental disorder that has become a buzzword in the media isn't real? Absolutely not. Thankfully, we are coming into an era where we can find specific genetic abnormalities that cause the abnormal behaviors we classify into mental disorders.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I recommend the book "The Continuum Concept".

Full book here:
www.scribd.com...

Some pages here:
paimei01.blogspot.com...

In our efforts to get children to behave in the ways we want we utilize methods of control, many of which are culturally condoned forms of violence. Based on our long-standing traditional belief that children are a form of property, we treat them as objects to be manipulated and molded in directions that will be comfortable for us. The strangest and most unrealistic part of our child rearing beliefs is that our antisocial and asocial behavior toward them is supposed to make them into loving social beings. We are unable to recognize that our violence (hitting, which includes spanking), sublimated violence (punishment, which includes isolation and the withdrawal of love and affection], and parental emotional detachment (discipline), all of which are intrinsic to our child rearing methods, become children's model for future relationships. Our children are chiefly influenced in their development by who we are in relation to them, not by who we think we are or who we pretend to be. Children who are reared in our conventional ways (many of which are identical to the ways convicts, prisoners of war, and slaves have been treated throughout history), learn from the way that they are treated by their parents that it is appropriate to harm other people, to be emotionally detached from the pain of others, and that it is perfectly all right to impose one's will on other people. In short they are instructed, by example, how to be a psychopathic personality or at least to behave as one.

The MACHINE in our heads:
www.primitivism.com...



[edit on 22-8-2010 by pai mei]

Originally posted by Jezus

He isn't saying the "condition" doesn't exist.

He is saying that it is a natural characteristic of children.

Thank you.

Thats exactly what the OP says. The condition exists but it is not an illness.

Troublesome for parents and teachers? Yes.

Illness? No.

Curable with reduction of Violent videos, reduction of sugar and sweeteners and increase of loving care.

(In 80% of the cases)

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
Between all the crap loaded into the "needed' vaccines kids get, and the way the family is in western society tech debt society, and the finishing touches that hollywood smears on it,
is it any wonder?

At a certainy young age I exposed myself to a diet of watching cartoons every morning before going to school.

I became very nervous and fidgety in school but did not perceive the cause. One day my parents decided I should not watch cartoons on weekdays before school but only on weekends.

So I quit with the onslaught of noise and violence for breakfast and remember clearly that I felt strangely relieved. The nervousness stopped after that.

True Story.

Originally posted by Annee
I find you to be a very irresponsible poster.

And I find it irresponsible that children are being branded mentally ill over nothing.

Its obvious you have never dealt with a child that truly does have difficulty under the umbrella ADHD.

You couldnt know that for sure.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Thank God someone has posted this! S & F...a most important post.

This fraud foisted upon modern parents is of monumental proportions. Think of it. The Psychobabble witch doctors prescribe a "potent" to cure being a kid and having enthusiasm and imagination. In their place we have walking zombies, mind dead and devoid of any desire to excel. More importantly, they create in a few generations a vast supply of compliant serfs ready to be controlled and manipulated by TPTB to bring about the "Brave New World" identified as the NWO.

The OP probably did not anticipate the hoards of posters valiantly defending the idea of the ADHD fraud as real. These are the parents who are raising second and third generation ADHD identified drones. They are in denial and cling desperately to the drugs they are so addicted to by now that "help” them get through each and every day.

Without the massive mind-altering that has preceeded our current era we would have seen a revolution by now over BigGov's attack on our personal freedoms. In times gone by, we would have seen 1960's type revolution in the streets. With the brain-dead society we now have, the key word to the response of these attacks is "compliance". This could not have been accomplished in a short two or three generations without mind-altering drugs such as we have foisted upon our own children and their children’s children.

Welcome to the NWO folks! Welcome to the “age of compliance”. Grab your drugs and hold on for the ride.