They won't build it! Hardhats vow not to work on controversial mosque near Ground Zero

reply to post by NoJoker13


I'd like to know his name and figure out "who" he is.

A few questions, how far away is far enough? Ok, building on ground zero? obvious no, 2 blocks away not even in the line of site? no, how far is it supposed to be?

Also to everyone sprouting the term 'victory mosque' grow up, the only people i've heard use that term are people on fox news, people like Glen Beck who like to make very very loose connections between things. This IS NOT a sacred site, yes a terrible thing happened there, but in what way has it become sacred? There was an attack there, 9 years ago, terrible thing, but that doesn't make it suddenly sacred.

Anyway, if the workers don't wanna do it, they don't need to, just like everyone can be sneakily anti islamic, freedom of speech! A small number of people committed those attacks, a very small number, why vilify a whole religion (which as much as you say you arn't, you really are with your reasoning), for the actions of a few. Should I start hating Christians for all the things people have done in the name of god? No, thats ridiculous, same as this.

Originally posted by insideNSA
1. Muslims weren't involved in 9/11, so who cares about building the victory mosque

It doesn't matter if Muslims actually did 9/11 or not! The perception is that they did it. In fact, Muslims the world over rejoiced on that day.

But these Muslims mourned the loss of congregation members who dies when they entered the towers as first responders. These Muslims spent the days after 9/11 down at ground zero providing water to the rescue workers.

2. It is a community center and these are moderate muslims. This has nothing to do with 9/11, they are here to build better relationships amongst the worlds cultures and peoples

This is actually dead wrong. Look at the name of the mosque. ... If this mosque is for peace, why name it after their greatest conquest over western civilization.

Cordoba was also the center of a civilization where Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived together in relative peace. Just because you take one meaning from a name does not make that the intended meaning.

AND THE KICKER if that isn't a slap in the face enough. Is they want to open and dedicate this Mosque on 9/11/2011!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is a flat-out lie that has been spread by the media and blogosphere.

Also do a little research into the imam character in charge of the project. a real savory guy. blue jeans and apple pie all the way. he loves his country. NOT

In fact, doing a little research on the imam in charge of the project is what convinced me that not only do they have a right to build, but that it is a good thing for them to build.

Believe me, as a liberal woman I have reservations about a lot of Islam. This imam and his wife have been involved in advocating for the rights of women in Islam since long before 9/11; that is just one factor that tipped the scales for me.

As far as the moderate muslims go... my biggest problem with them is that they don't reign in the radical muslims to keep islam from having a bad name.

So here we finally have a vocal representative of moderate Islam who has condemned religious violence, and what happens?

3. The victory mosque is two blocks away, not on sacred ground

Close enough for government work as they say! And close enough for them to mark their victory spot, like a dog does to a fire hydrant.

How far is far enough for you?

4. It is there constitutional right to build the mosque, so we must let them build it

Yes it certainly is. But this isn't a question of legality. And just because something is legal, certainly doesn't make it right.

True, but it does make it a right. And remember that there are those in the opposition who are campaigning against their right to build there as well as the appropriateness of their building there.

5. If this was a church this wouldn't even be an issue

There was a church that was destroyed in 9/11 yet they don't have the permission to rebuild.

Totally unrelated. The St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox church ended up hung up in negotiations with the Port Authority (who own the land they want) over their land deal. This group has no similar ownership issues.

Some muslims such as wahhabi flavor, see it like this. islam will conquer the world.

But these are not wahhabists, they are sufists. Totally different beast, it's like comparing the medieval Crusaders to the Quakers.

I know for a fact that these same folks wouldn't feel this way if they were the ones who lost someone dear.

And I know for a fact that some of the people who have supported this project on ATS did lose loved ones. I didn't personally, but friends of mine did, and many of my friends were involved in the rescue efforts and cleanup.

reply to post by againuntodust


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Take a look at this thread that discussed it, I'm not sure an exact name but it would give you more insight.

Originally posted by againuntodust
reply to post by NoJoker13

 

I'd like to know his name and figure out "who" he is.

The person who owns the real estate development company that bought this property is named Sharif El-Gamal; his company is named Soho Properties. He is a member of the imam's congregation.

I absolutely have no problem with and respect people for obeying their own conscience and not taking part in the building of this structure if they are not ethically comfortable with it. That is their right. I completely understand it and respect it.

I still hope the mosque gets built by others, though.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

If they stone a woman for disobeying her husband in Iran, should we follow suit?

If they put a man to death for being gay, should we follow suit?

Yet you are advocating the expansion of a religion that promotes the stoning of women and the murder of gay men!

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Who said you had to embrace Islam? How about respecting freedom of religion.

How about respecting the secular rights of the ordinary non Muslim who doesn't want to see a religious movement grow in the USA that promotes the stoning of women and the murder of gay men?

Originally posted by JunoJive
In my humble opinion, it would be the boldest show of support for the fundamental ideals of the US if they helped build the mosque. Working together and supporting each other despite the vast differences in perspective. What an unbelievable display of humility it would be to just accept each other and not blame an entire people, an entire culture for the actions of a few.

That's a great idea. The Muslims could get to build a Mosque on Ground Zero and the Christians could get to build a church in mecca!

I'm sure the Saudi's will think its a great idea.

reply to post by ollncasino


So because a few more radical countries support those things we should suddenly stop the whole religion? any religion, political ideology, even just person beliefs can account for those beliefs in minorities of the group

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

If they stone a woman for disobeying her husband in Iran, should we follow suit?

If they put a man to death for being gay, should we follow suit?

Yet you are advocating the expansion of a religion that promotes the stoning of women and the murder of gay men!

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Who said you had to embrace Islam? How about respecting freedom of religion.

How about respecting the secular rights of the ordinary non Muslim who doesn't want to see a religious movement grow in the USA that promotes the stoning of women and the murder of gay men?

LOL wut?

Aren't those the consequences of freedom of religion? I doubt the expansion you're speaking of requires extremist Muslims with machetes threatening to lop your head off if you don't convert to Islam. It's a mosque for God's sake, nobody said you had to go there and I doubt anyone is bugging you to do so either. If it ever does come to that, do what I do when a Jehovah Witness comes to my door, gladly slam the door in their face.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by JunoJive
In my humble opinion, it would be the boldest show of support for the fundamental ideals of the US if they helped build the mosque. Working together and supporting each other despite the vast differences in perspective. What an unbelievable display of humility it would be to just accept each other and not blame an entire people, an entire culture for the actions of a few.

That's a great idea. The Muslims could get to build a Mosque on Ground Zero and the Christians could get to build a church in mecca!

I'm sure the Saudi's will think its a great idea.

Muslims are building a mosque ontop of ground zero? I thought it was a few blocks away. Link please.

reply to post by ollncasino

Yet you are advocating the expansion of a religion that promotes the stoning of women and the murder of gay men!

Yea, that's what I don't get,

Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by silo13

 

Liberals are so totally clueless. Do you actually go through dumb training to ignore the obvious ploy of the muslim takeover of the West? Do you know that victory mosques have been constructed the world over at the holy sites of conquered peoples?

Are they Liberals or are they "wolves in sheeps' clothing"?

I certainly view any on-line apologist for Islam with great suspicion now. Its so hard to meet one in real life yet the Internet is full of them.

Yeah! Irrational hatred of a billion people in the world is fun! Who needs government sanctioned limitations on religion when we can accomplish the same with social stigmas and personal threats? What an amazing country this has become! Our forefathers would be so proud. They used to have to settle for religious persecution from a country across the ocean. Today, in our modern world, we can hate and fear our neighbors next door, who besides practicing a different faith, have the same life-styles, jobs, families, and other average life challenges as us.

You neocons are a plague and you won't be happy until 2 billion Chinese and 1 billion Muslims are wiped off the face of the earth. Of course, at that point, you would find someone else to be afraid of because you can't enjoy your own lives while people who think differently from you are walking the earth.

Originally posted by 2weird2live2rare2die
the government knocked down the towers, not the muslims
so this is not even a relevant outcry of anger in my opinion

Even if the guvment did it, guess who was celebrating? Hardhats? hell no! IRS employees? negative! Muslims did! Iranians did! Terrorists did! Islamists did! And you know what they shouted? "allah akbar", which ill tanslate for you numbskull dimwitted communist liberal idiots that continue to support said terrorists, "praise god" or "allah is great" Which is an insult to the people who died that day.

It doesnt matter who killed them, If you laugh cause 1 single innocent american died, then I say up yours! And I don't mean a middle finger alone either. And I'm all about sending the biggest [snip] bomb we got and level your freaking country. How bout a load of buckshot for icing?

Laugh and celebrate about 2976? screw you. I kill you, your family, your friends and they'd be a hole where your house used to be. am I angry? you better believe it. Why don't you move over there with your "tolerant" heroes? Try putting a church in cairo, or tehran. See just how tolerant they are towards us. Blood Was Spilled. American blood. that used to mean something. IT STILL DOES. and brother . Know what? nevermind. You know it already.

And another thing. Whats the name of the church that was destroyed when the towers fell on it? St josephs? they've been trying to get a permit for ---8 years--!!!!!! and now these jackholes issue a unanimous approval for the mosque? in how long? You Gotta Be freaking Kidding ME. I can't believe it. i wish i could clone me bout 10,000 Gunnys. They'd sort out these bunch of yellow bellies and send em all back to mamby-pamby land.

[i would put -rant concluded- but this wont end until there are no more idiots in charge of anything more than toilet-paper restocking]

I also should say that none of my angry ramblings should be taken as a direct personal attack or threat on anyone but those responsible.

reply to post by catwhoknows


I find the "hardhats" reported stance a mainstream media instigated mindless reaction.

They have fell into the trap of the organised demonisation of the "muslim"

Surely if the "hardhats" were to engage brain or think for themselves and look at available evidence / testimony they would be refusing to work on any certain government agency building.

I have no political or religous affiliation what-so-ever.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

There's evidence that there might be some racism as well as bigotry at work here. Not all those opposed to this project are necessarily racists or bigots, but clearly some are or are going there whether then want to deny it or not. This happened at once protest at ground zero.

At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims.

"Go home," several shouted from the crowd.

"Get out," others shouted.

In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called "The Way." Both said they had come to protest the mosque.

"I'm a Christian," Nassralla shouted to the crowd, his eyes bulging and beads of sweat rolling down his face.

But it was no use. The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety.

Source

I'm sure this wasn't racism, right?

And I'm sure that all friends and even my son, all of whom are Americans and who happen to be Hindu, B'hai, Christian, and other religions and even atheists, weren't told to go home and told they were not welcome here and were even spit on because their religion is SO obvious and it had nothing to do with the fact that their racial makeup was non-Caucasian.


As to the politics making strange bedfellows aspect of this whole "union workers" thing? It's cool that union workers are standing shoulder to shoulder with the GOP on this one...the GOP who would love nothing more than to destroy their unions. Guess we should be grateful about the unifying against a common enemy factor of this whole situation, eh?

[edit on 8/20/2010 by ~Lucidity]

Originally posted by bonnieprince

So because a few more radical countries support those things we should suddenly stop the whole religion? any religion, political ideology, even just person beliefs can account for those beliefs in minorities of the group

The Koran teaches Muslims to wage war on the non-Muslim world.

Read a Koran.

The "Religion of Truth" (Islam) must prevail, by force if necessary, over all other religions. 9:33

Allah gave Muhammad the one true religion and sent him to conquer all other (false) religions. 61:9

Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 9:123

Christians are disbelievers for believing in the divinity of Christ. 5:17

Fight against Christians and Jews "until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low." 9:29

Treat converts to Islam well. (Kill those who refuse to convert. See 9:5) 9:11

Those who refuse to fight for Allah (claiming they are unable) are liars who have destroyed their souls. 9:42

Fight for Allah with your wealth and whatever weapons are available to you. 9:41

Allah will destroy non-Muslim cultures. 7:138-9

Fight the disbelievers! Allah is on your side; he will give you victory. 9:12-14

Don't obey disbelievers. But rather fight against them. 25:52

Those who refuse to fight for Allah will be treated (along with their children) as unbelievers. 9:85

Those who refuse to give their wealth and lives to Allah will face the fire of hell. 9:81-83

Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 9:73

Those who submit and convert to Islam will be treated well. (Those who don't submit will be killed. See previous verse.) 9:6

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. 9:5

Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111

A prophet may not take captives until he has made a slaughter in the land. 8:67

Exhort the believers to fight. They will win easily, because disbelievers are without intelligence. 8:65

Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 8:59-60

Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89


If you die fighting for Allah, you'll be rewarded in heaven. 3:157

"Give us victory over the disbelieving folk." 2:286

War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216

"Fight in the way of Allah." 2:190, 2:244

Those with Muhammad are ruthless toward disbelievers and merciful toward themselves. 48:29

If you refuse to fight for Allah, he will punish you with a painful doom. 48:16

Be stern with disbelievers. They are going to Hell anyway. 66:9

Smite the necks of the disbelievers whenever you fight against them. Those who die fighting for Allah will be rewarded. 47:4

Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 8:17

Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111

Those who die fighting for Allah will go to heaven. 3:195
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

Helping the poor is not as important as believing in Islam and fighting in holy wars. 9:19

Allah loves those who fight for him. 61:4


[edit on 20-8-2010 by ollncasino]

[edit on 20-8-2010 by ollncasino]

Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111

Those who die fighting for Allah will go to heaven. 3:195
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

Helping the poor is not as important as believing in Islam and fighting in holy wars. 9:19

Allah loves those who fight for him. 61:4

Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76

When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell. 8:15-16

Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 8:59-60

I know i am English but I will still take it as a personal slap in the face if a freakin mosque is built on the very spot that sooo many people who aint muslims not only died but followed you into an illegal war in iraq and afganistan,

Every freakin day brothers who i served with are shipped home in pine boxes. The total deaths in suport of you equates to 10 battalions of MEN.,

That alone earned us the right to have a say.,

Putting a mosque there is the biggest monumental spit in the face to your closest allies who have fought and died with you.,

Build it and you are soooo on your own...