"What's with the anger on ATS?"

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by deccal
Anyway, as I understood, regarding his behaviour, we are looking from very different perspectives.

It's not about perspectives, it's about logic


Logic...? Since when can we deduce complex social, historical and legal relations to logic?
Anyway, maybe you can invite him here and ask what he meant.
I am getting angry now

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Thats the best you've got? That the MSM are making it like this? What a cop out.

Dave

Originally posted by daptodave
Thats the best you've got? That the MSM are making it like this? What a cop out.

Dave

Of course it is, no doubt about it!!!

Remember the old saying
When you control what people read you control them.

There is a major shift happening right now as we speak

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I think that in your OP you hit the nail on the head. There is not a whole lot more to add. As you said, we sit and watch the news trying to get a little info because we care. But, what we get instead is what is going on in Hollywood and what the latest overpaid jock is doing.
Those of us with a little intelligence know that "no news is NOT good news" in this case. What the media is not telling us screams volumes.
I know that in the last couple of months I, myself, have had a few instances where I could have been more mannerly in the way that I have expressed myself.
You the administrators/owners of this website have taken on a huge task. I don't know if you had any idea that the site would grow and be as successful as it has been. The ability to control it is going to be commensurate with it's size, you can only do the best you can.
The only thing that you left out of your OP is that along with the problems that you stated, we each have our own set of personal problems. I know for myself, I am going through a very difficult time and there are times that it is hard to step away from that on ATS. I believe that is called mis-directed anger.
Guess we can all do better.
Seeashrink

extremist who are absolutely certain that everything they believe is correct, with little to no room for any possibility of being wrong.

fierce discussion + people's pride = mindless chaos


edit: and eff anyone who thinks the mods do too much, I have NEVER seen a mod edit a post that didn't truly deserve it. you guys put up with a lot of crap, even from me, but you should know that I appreciate it.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by piddles]

Well, you asked a good question...

I would hope that I would have an equally good answer.

"Whats with the anger on ATS?"

I will do my best to answer the question in this way. I have read the responses and found them lacking in totality.

You mentioned a perfect storm I believe you hit closer to it then you want to know. I think the reasons have all meshed together and are forming it.

The parts-


Psychological-
Psychic-
Feedback-

The main psychological parts are this...

Maslovs hierarchy of needs

Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a theory in psychology, proposed by Abraham Maslow in his 1943 paper A Theory of Human Motivation.[2] Maslow subsequently extended the idea to include his observations of humans' innate curiosity. His theories parallel many other theories of human developmental psychology, all of which focus on describing the stages of growth in humans.

The fastest explanation here is this. Needs of the whole at each part are not being met.

For years the american public (and MAYBE the rest of the world) are realizing what is being done to them.

For the first time in a long time they are beginning to realize subconsciously that something undefined is being taken away from them.

Ex-
Obama care
Patriot act
Morgage crisis
9/11
Iraq
Afghanistan
Losses in the market (huge)

A large percentage of the population has realized that what they thought was guaranteed is naught but an illusion.

Then you have the fear mongers manipulating each of these situations trying to use them to climb to power.

Ex- go to school get good grades and get a high paying job

Ex- all cops are trustworthy- if you are in trouble go to them

ex- your house is a good investment, hands down

Ex- put your money in the market and you can retire off of it

Ex- the US government has programs in place to help us, the water will get here in a few hours

There Are plenty more I could go on and on. We all know that in the end we were all lied to. This hits on several of maslows points. If you are use to operating on the top of self actualization and find out that even the basic food may be gone how are you going to respond?

Just like a kid who is use to having something and you take it away. They do not take to well to it.

Then compounding it your idiot reps decide that they will compound it. Theyll take more and redistribute it.

I believe I have covered mot of the psychological factors that come from one source, fear due to loss.

The Psychic part...

I believe that most humans are psychic and do not use it.

My thread here

I believe on a lower level we all sense the building frustration and emotions. It is creating a sub loop in the unconsciousness that may end up causing certain conditions similar to a pre WWII germany.

It reaches out and like a virus preforms like a meme stuck in each head.

The feedback-

In engineering it is called positive feed back. It causes a certain oscillation in system that result in their collapse. As each factor rises out of control and overwhelms the control mechanisms.

In this case the incidents have seem to all occurred real close together and are still socially being felt as they are feeding on each other.

What makes it worse is that no one is taking the time to properly address these items. Our o so wise leaders are doing nothing but persuing their climbs into power. They are doing nothing but contributing to the positive feedback into the machine of society.



Yea in my self importance I believe I have explained part of the problem. Now to the solutions.

As a guest in your house skeptic overlord I can only make recommendations.

You have done a great job in taking the first steps. You have acknowledged the problem. I thank you for in the process you have helped crystallize part of something I have felt a lot of.

1) Set up a little more uniformity in enforcement. It seems to be a complaint involving editing mods in matters.

Say make it two mods to agree on moving or editing a thread.

2) might I address the banning part.

You might actually get a lot of fun out of this. Imagine if the individual being banned where given a trial. Create a trial thread, it being the only thread they can post in.

Let them post there side of it.Send out jury notices to members and let the ones who have not posted in the thread qualify.

Select judges from other forums...

Can you do partial banns?
I.e. banned from posting in weapons forum.... or breaking news...

3) I still suggest an anything goes forum... With the instruction that if you bring it out of there you go up for banning...

4) an ATS bill of rights
followed by ats bill of responsiblity

I know you have t and c, but from what I have read of your post you realise on some level everyone here wants to be heard and feel like they have been. You have been excellent to date managing this quite well...

In conclusion the main thing is to find ways of wisdom to manage the emotions and begin a process of helping teach and train those we feel need it. The motto is Deny ignorance, and I believe you yourself said education is the beginning of this denial.

This is how I have dealt with my own issues...

A little bit of self advertising

My first reaction is to be insulted, but once again I am in SOMEONE else's house. I behave as I see fit. It shows I am on here a lot, but my post do not reflect it. Why? I edit my own post before I respond. 80% of my post and responses do not make it on this site. I insult for no reason, I become cruel to the idiots I do not agree with, and honestly think some should be culled from the human gene pool. I do not post those because I vent then go to recent post never posting them.

I do not post over 80% of what I type I mostly . I have tried to go by what I have posted in this thread. Well I hope it helps... ty

reply to post by ModernAcademia


yeah... a major shift to Ingsoc.... doubleplus ungood

Originally posted by daptodave
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

Thats the best you've got? That the MSM are making it like this? What a cop out.

Dave

It's most definitely a very large contributing factor. Even when a person is aware of how they manipulate and control, it still takes a LOT of fortitude to resist falling into that trap.

There are many factors involved, not just the MSM.

But the MSM is for sure part of the equation. There is no doubt about that.

Do you see anyone hating on Hindus or Bangladeshis lately? No.
Why?
Because there is no media that led them down that route.

But if the MSM starts making stories about them and demonizing them, for sure you will see the Internet debates on the subjects heating up over night.

So yes the MSM is a important factor in this equation.

Another example is the Tibet vs China issue. When the MSM was reporting on the crack downs there, tons of angry posts ensued all over ATS.

But when the MSM stopped talking about it, 99.9% of the population also stopped debating it. They have way more influence on our mentalities than most people realize.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by muzzleflash]

reply to post by muzzleflash


hell yes, I agree with you so much. too many people are influenced by a BS rhetoric telling them they should be angry or scared

then this same media reports that voters are angry about something


the thing that they made them upset about.


sigh.

To those who live life without clarity.

Some have mentioned it in a better way than I would have, I think it's a reflection of the state that the world is in right now...

In everyday life, irl, I notice that the anxiety and stress level has jumped a few notches. Some people I deal with, that were very nice and easy going but a few months ago...well, in some cases, at the moment, I would happily twist their heads 360 degrees - exorcist style - but I can't

People are frustrated, nervous and in many cases, short fused. Impatient.

It manifests on the boards, where anyone can say what they want without fear of having a fist going through their face. I find that mods do an EXCELLENT job on this site, an amazing balancing act !!!

What...12,000 members or about? wow. GREAT GREAT JOB !!!!

the anger probably is with the system that doesnt reward good discussions

lets be real, the board system is no ideal ... there are a lot of things that need to be done

the board system wasnt made for a website with 100000000000000000 members ... and thats a reality ...

is not about interface, its about little things to improve discussion

reply to post by muzzleflash

Another example is the Tibet vs China issue. When the MSM was reporting on the crack downs there, tons of angry posts ensued all over ATS.

In that vein of thought isn't this an issue that should be addressed I started a few topics myself on this subject,

before the internet I had a free Tibet sticker,

sorry I know I was supposed to be done posting.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Look, I think this is important to understand the roots of "anger" on ATS.

I reread what he wrote. And here it is again:

"KICK THE IMMIGRANTS OUT
That's the only solution. Don't wait for the government. Do it yourself. Politicians are traitors. We don't want to live with people that destroy our culture."

Ok, now, I might misunderstood you. So, do you say that the guy who wrote this may be right, because of his unemployment problems etc. Let me repeat: I am not talking about understanding his position, his feelings etc..Of course, as a social scientist, my job is try to understand his motives, for example how did 3th Reich rise etc..But to saying that he is "right" is another thing. So what do you think?
I think he is just encouraging violence against immigrants here, and I demand from mods to delete such posts.

Edit: spelling

[edit on 16-8-2010 by deccal]

I think a lot of people are really worried about the future. The stress is overwhelming a lot of people. So, it ends up coming out on other people of whom they feel represent the problem(s) of which they feel is the cause of the whole meltdown.

It's a sign of things a lot bigger than squabbles on a message board.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


And the shift of human awareness could be a good thing, if we will open our minds and hearts to what others see in the world,
the forum could become a force for good, if we learn to feel less threatened, by how others perceive us.

reply to post by deccal


but the paradox is what are your roots

First off, I commend that ATS recongizes a problem.

I don't think this is temporary or has to do with school schedules this time, it had been in creasing for while now.

ATS has become a popular site. With less business you can control and moderate more, with the increase in posting, it is spread thinly.

Advanced posting members used to be able to challenge posts, that are just baseless emotional bashing. But because of the influx, these members are spread far too thin, with too many trolls.

Members need to be challenged more to provide a rational opinion,with valid resources.

When I first started on ats, if you made a statement, you had better be able to back it up, with both information and rational opinion.

But with the influx of immature posting, and there is a lot of immature, baseless, and emotional posting, it is getting to be too much.

And these members have dozens of others who follow in packs and lead them on. You can see their posts getting dozens up dozens of stars, and their post has no quality whatsoever.

In a nutshell, it is a quality control issue. But how do you control quality on a website, without driving away business? Because I understand also that a website is a business.

Maybe someone had a pov to offer. Maybe you can add a new class of mods whose job it is to just do quality control? *shrugs*

For example: If the poster is unable to provide a quality post, maybe there can be a trashcan forum. And they have to provide such and such many posts of a certain caliber before they can start a thread again. Or remove star and flag capabilities, etc.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by nixie_nox]

maybe its just cathartic...
all we can punch is the keys


[edit on 16-8-2010 by Danbones]