"What's with the anger on ATS?"

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Helig
How would purging those who can't be at least passably polite send a bad message to others? Shouldn't the members understand that mods have the power to remove them for actions unbecoming of members? Isn't enforcement of the Terms and Conditions the job of the staff rather than members?

The Terms and Conditions have no weight. I know of one individual who's been banned here more than 8 or 9 times and he keeps coming back under a new user name. He doesn't even try to hide his identity. When I brought it up to a Super Mod, I was told they knew it was him, but had to wait until he put his foot in it again before they could ban his current incarnation.

So if there are no consequences to breaking the rules, there will always be a contingent feeling free to ignore them.

To give you an idea how bad the anger has been getting recently, as you might recall I stopped by a recent Mason's thread and jovially said I want to become a Mason too.

I think we all had a good laugh pondering that one for a moment, but I actually recieved angry U2U's that I was selling out! I basically got told by a few people that it just wasn't right for me to interact on a Mason thread unless I am disparaging of Masonry.

Yet the truth is you post on a lot of non-Masonic Threads and are actually a very well informed poster on the subjects you post on.

When a member last week posted the latest accusations of ATS being a government or CIA controlled site, and I came out in square defense of the Owners and the Staff, debunking some of the claims, and citing a lack of any kind of evidence for others, once again I got some angry U2U's from people saying Proto, you should have taken the Middle of the Road on that one, and not defended the ownership.

It's almost like we have all been cast into rigid roles, for the purpose of some game, and people are actually getting angry if you deviate from the role they imagine you are supposed to always play, and angrier still if you just don't want to play the game.



[edit on 16/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

since i am a guest on this site i will abide by the owners wishes....


i'm just curious tho the recent hatred/complaints is that just pertaining to the religion threads?


does this cover:


george w bush threads
republican threads
democrat threads
anti israeli threads
etc.....

just so i can have a clearer understanding of this policy covers everything right?


i wasn't around on ats for the past 8 years i'm wondering how this recent trend compared to past trends.

People get angry while they watch their freedoms, future for their children, and their treasure slowly being destroyed by TPTB.

People searching the internet for others who are aware of these issues naturally will stumble on ATS.

That's why you are seeing more people upset and "angry" here on ATS.

Then you have those good people being baited by trolls. Flame wars will ensue.

Maybe a new system should be put into place. For the first 6 months of your ATS membership you are subject to a 3 strikes and your out rule. By that I don't mean banning for just abuse or violating the T&C, but also people who don't take the discussions seriously and don't give useful input. A lot of newcomers seem to only post comments which are blatantly going to annoy people. There is freedom of speech, and opinions, then there is just plain old stupidity, childishness and hate.

If you are not going to contribute useful posts to discussions, you can jolly well sling yer hook.

Originally posted by deccal
There are many such posts encouraging racism, hatred and violence. This is not a speech of freedom. If I see such a post, it is not easy to controll myself and reply with a language that he can understand.
You have to show no tolerance to such posts. That is that simple!

I'm pretty sure that this poster was talking about illegal immigrants.
His following sentences after the one you bolded did portray that.

If you follow my posts you would know I would very much disagree with this person, however I would not call him a racist for sure, he may be one he may not be.

This is how debates are de-evolving, people aren't open to the other person's opinion anymore, they consider it blasphemy.

reply to post by neo96


it boils down to the question of "blind faith" and frustration for reasons known or unknown,

you could call it a gnostic fall mass of uncertanty or empiric knowlegge wieghs more then the metaphisical

[edit on 16-8-2010 by zerbot565]

[edit on 16-8-2010 by zerbot565]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

If you're unable (or unwilling?) to discern the difference between opinion and actions, there's not much more I can say for you on the matter.

That is really no help to me or any members reading this.

What do YOU consider an "action" on a message board??? And how do YOU differentiate it from an "opinion" on a message board???

Because it doesn't matter what "I" think they are...it matters what YOU define them as.

And I honestly don't know what an "action" is on a message board...real life...yes...your example makes sense.

Example In Real Life:

Opinion: Someone says they hate all black people.

Action: They don't hire black people because they are racist.


What is the "action" on a message board? Is it directly insulting an individual? Is it ok to insult a group and many members at one time, but it isn't ok to insult one member at a time?

Because if someone says "I hate all black people"...they are insulting many ATS members...just because they didn't say it directly to that member doesn't make it any less hurtful.


And I would appreciate it if you would refrain from the condescending attitude...it isn't flattering and it doesn't impress anyone.

I think there are a few professional disinfo agents

some people don't seem to have the requisite skills to argue without using ad hominem attacks or derailing honest threads


just my personal two cents ,we're here to discuss so discuss

it's called dialogue sometimes it's called brainstorming it should be fun and friendly and informative


I think it's the political climate in general and all the economic uncertainty too

so everybody take a deep breath and let it out and breathe ooommmm!

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

Expressing racist beliefs, and acting on those beliefs when posting on ATS are two different things.

The T&C makes it exceptionally clear that one's behavior is actionable, not their opinions.

I'm not sure I understand what "acting on those beliefs" mean on a message board? Using racial derrogatory terms?

So you are saying that someone can say they hate a group of people based on some random characteristic...skin color, religion, food preference...as long as they do it respectfully???

How does that help the group being hated on?

The way you have this set up, the people being hated on are the ones more likely to get banned. You protect racist hate speech (as long as it is respectful), but will ban a member who gets ANGRY over being looked down upon as a human being because of their skin color.

So you are saying...ATS members...you are free to express your hate and tell other groups of people that they are sub-human or below you because of your skin color (as long as you are respectful about it). And ATS members of that group...YOU BETTER NOT GET ANGRY AT IT OR YOU WILL BE PUNISHED.

Seems like a backward policy. Punish the victim...protect the perp. Punish the reaction...not the instigator. It's sad if that is what ATS is going to become.

Fabulous point OutKast Searcher!
For any of you who really did study Cointel Pro tactics, this is definitely one of them. STOP! THIS IS NOT AN ACCUSATION! I am saying this style of bashing those you hate to make them the criminal (BLAME THE VICTIM) was the first wave during and after the Civil Rights Movement. See, it was then that it was no longer respectable to call people out of their names befitting their 'sense of humor' as it was called then. This is the part of conspiracy that gets the attention of the courts - Charles Manson is in jail because he PERSUADED a group of kids to kill. He didn't kill anyone, but he is in JAIL for PERSUADING THEM - those who did the actual acts.
Is the MSM doing the job of Manson now? Yes! And they will keep doing it as long as people on boards keep up the murderous rants until someone finally takes the MANSON BANNER home. I've been saying it ever since Clinton and Obama disappeared on the campaign trail - you knew the PTB though evil, had a hard time putting someone in office that can DRAW SYMPATHY.
The only way this won't go down is if every American went to DC, surrounded the Mall and did like King said: Sing that old spiritual. Then it would just magically stop - not really, it would just scare the old Bilderburgs to death, causing a decapitating event within their ranks which they would have to fill before continuing with their process.
To Dream the Impossible Dream where we all get along.

Originally posted by MrsBlonde

it's called dialogue sometimes it's called brainstorming

id give you a star if i could

reply to post by zerbot565


my perception of things right now is that there is noone complaining when it comes to "hating" on gwb,republicans,isreal for example.

to me its almost theres no hating allowed except comes to those.....



maybe i'm wrong.

Originally posted by CestLaVie
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Thank you SkepticOverlord.
I agree with proto and the person replied to, there are a lot of shallow and surface-dwelling items popping up, and the agenda is evident in these posts.
I love the way you explained things, proto !
The good side is they out themselves and their plans in the thousands of threads they post each day all over Internet sites.
The objectives are discouragement and division, IMHO. Using fear and anger and pain.
Solutions I find helpful are noting who is posting, ignoring posts with certain language, and seeking honesty and civility in posts.
May the site continue to improve. Many blessings to all.

I think one of the most disturbing things is more and more posters are unwilling to actually consider any source of information that doesn't substantiate how they feel or validate what they think.

Often even after you display through credible sources, that something highly inflamatory they are contending is not true, that it was debunked, that the source of the false information has been identified, and then provide them the accurate information, it just goes in one ear and out the other.

Often they will provide no source for their information that they pander as fact to begin with.

They just want you to accept it as fact, and when you won't the personal attacks begin.

They aren't actually interested in learning anything, they don't care when they are debunked either, or the information is proven to be false, they seem entirely focused on and intent on just isolating people through fear, getting them to reject valid sources of information that would reduce or eliminate that fear, and then manipulating those they can isolate through fear to promote the same agenda.

They aren't here to learn, or reason, or even debate, they are here to incite fear and preach, and attack anyone who won't subscribe to it.

I know there is an adjustment period and learning curve where new members take a little while to learn the ATS Culture, but it seems to me there are more and more people interested in changing that Culture rather than learning and growing through and respecting that culture.

I would hate to see this continue as a trend.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


No, I didn't bold it, he did it.
And what do you think this statement means:"Don't wait for the government. Do it yourself."

Oh, perfect...

Originally posted by neo96
to me its almost theres no hating allowed except comes to those.

Neither any wording in the opening post or our management policies make any such distinction.

The focus is on expressing anger/hate/insults within your posts and directed toward other members.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


i stand corrected thank you

This thread makes me so angry! Grrrrrrrrr. Here is my recent gripe.

1. More and more people making more and more outlandish claims.
a) I'm Maitreya
b) I am an ET
c) I am friends with an E.T.
d) I can prove we're alone in the universe (with a poem and few numbers).

I don't understand how the owners and mods can suggest we talk in a civil
manner with these topics. I understand that the "grey area" and "skunk
works" prides itself on not having to present any evidence what so ever,
however the discussion of facts is the only thing that would make this civil.
People beginning to question OP's claim and dissect their words and suddenly
they are off topic or being rude. I hardly think that sarcasm and tough
questions require removing of posts. I feel like I am expected to say, "Hey
nice to meet you E.T, thanks for visiting us on ATS". If the OP is willing to put
out there that they are otherworldly or a messiah, surely some rigid
questions and statements will be made.

Expecting civility with such chaotic parameters is delusional.
keepureye2thesky - August 2010

This drivel should have some ATS shelf life, but should be considered for
BTS or Hoax Forum after a specific amount of time. Or create a Childrens
Room, otherwise I feel it damages this sites credibility and makes us
collectively look silly and willing to accept anything we hear on ATS.

I feel this site is turning into a free for all with such claims being made. ATS
is one of the few places if not the only one I know of where critical debate
would take place. A debate of facts and knowledge, slowly being overtaken
by wild claims. I can hardly blame MSM for trying to belittle our forum and
suggesting we are a bunch of crackpots (which I am sure they have in other
words). It's time to take ATS back.

reply to post by neo96


i know, .

i believe that it was in century of self one of the adam curtis documentarys

he said something like that the human psycye ? works like this ,

inorder to do one trick you do 3 , 2 with out knowing , this is what they prey on,

your "minority report" moves within taugth behaviur , .

its uncompulsory so to say that , you let a caged animal out and blame it for its wrong doings it makes according to your norm,

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Helig
How would purging those who can't be at least passably polite send a bad message to others? Shouldn't the members understand that mods have the power to remove them for actions unbecoming of members? Isn't enforcement of the Terms and Conditions the job of the staff rather than members?

The Terms and Conditions have no weight. I know of one individual who's been banned here more than 8 or 9 times and he keeps coming back under a new user name. He doesn't even try to hide his identity. When I brought it up to a Super Mod, I was told they knew it was him, but had to wait until he put his foot in it again before they could ban his current incarnation.

So if there are no consequences to breaking the rules, there will always be a contingent feeling free to ignore them.

It's almost like we have all been cast into rigid roles, for the purpose of some game, and people are actually getting angry if you deviate from the role they imagine you are supposed to always play, and angrier still if you just don't want to play the game.



[edit on 16/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

First, sorry if that didn't work, just trying to cut to the chase here. Your last paragraph made me think of a bible quote As is above so it is below (loosely). Seems like what's going on in the outer collective conscious is being reflected here. ATS is definitely a mirror though I will confess, I don't know for what all intensive purposes.

Originally posted by deccal
No, I didn't bold it, he did it.
And what do you think this statement means:"Don't wait for the government. Do it yourself."

ok he bolded it my apologies

and what that statement about the govt. could mean many things, it might mean forget the federal govt. and convince your state to succeed.
Who knows I was not in that thread.

But if he meant what you meant... then expect more such statements
this person may not necessarily be a racist or anti-govt.
he might have had economic troubles in some southern state like AZ and hates what he thinks is the issue, illegals and a corrupt govt.

That's why you should ask him what he means instead of categorizing him.
Always remember, everyone has a story!

I am going to say one more thing and then I will bow out of the conversation.


I was invited by a friend to post on this site to talk about my experience with UFO's. I lurked on and off for a long time because I thought it was a Christian hate forum, that was my humble opinion back in 2006,

Recently I have become aware of the abuse of women around the world and have been more vocal about this on the forum, not that I was ignorant of it before, but the recent events in Iran and THE DEATH of, Neda Agha Soltan.

For this I have taken a lot of abuse, I am shocked more people are not sympathetic to the plight of these women, instead I am called a racist and a bigot,

I guess my posts too have caused problems and anger, but the question remains is the anger aimed in the right direction?


Ok Bye.