The Amazing DNA molecule

reply to post by Calender


Thanks for this thread, you've expressed this miracle of nature in a very consumable and understandable manner and I applaud you.

One of the things that I think most people cannot comprehend about evolution and the immensity of information that manifests itself in complex life today is the vast, immense and unimaginable scale that is TIME.

A million years worth of living generations is incomprehensible as it is, but life has been around and transforming for 4 BILLION years. That's 4 thousand millions! The scale of this for our human minds is so confounding that this genetic complexity as brought about by natural process is too much to fathom.

We have been intelligent designers to our own storage mediums (wax records, tapes, cd's, dvd's, semiconductors) and we are burdened with understanding complexity as evolved slowly and cumbersomely through time as oppose to design.

The miracle of life is ever more miraculous the more we understand it.

Thanks for this post, I am intrigued by the concept and reality of DNA. The evidence really is open to interpretation. You can state what you believe it is or how it came to be, but really no man can interpret it for you. Seek within yourself and ask yourself these questions. For me, this is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Read into that, what you wish.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by john_bmth

 

Haha, I love this site!

I'll have to show you up aswell, firstly I haven't mentioned anything about religion so I'm not so sure where you get that impression from.

Secondly, I'll read about what "I don't know anything about" when you learn how to spell

P.S. If you could answer the question how the blood barrier was developed in human beings through evolution or how ever you believe human beings came into existence in this world then I'd be grateful?

[edit on 14/8/10 by Death_Kron]

Who are you trying to fool? You have absolutely no idea what "primordial soup" is, or "evolution". Why are you pretending otherwise? I would suggest getting clued up on these topics first, then you will see how foolish your straw man argument is.

reply to post by john_bmth


I would suggest answering my questions *snip* before you jump on your "know it all" bandwagon, so please elaborate king or are you going to answer with another stupid response?

Mod Edit: Please Review the Following Link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

[edit on Sat Aug 14 2010 by Jbird]

Come on Folks.
Please don't turn an otherwise wonderful discussion into an insult fest.

Please Address the Topic and not each other.

TIA

reply to post by Jbird


Sorry mod, was trying my best, lost my temper.

reply to post by Death_Kron


Answers? *snip* If you truly want answers then I suggest you start at the beginning and work your way up. No-one with even a cursory knowledge of evolution would come out with the following statements, let alone use them to bash a concept they have little or no understanding of:

"The rib cage? It protects the internal organs namely the heart and the lungs. The brain? Is protected by something called the blood barrier that regulates what's absorbed or not. The stomach? contains hydrochloric acid that breaks down our food. I could go on and on, seems too "perfect" to be an accident."

"Could you explain how the primordial soup created the blood barrier?"


Once you get acquainted with the topic you will realise that human beings didn't pop out of some prehistoric nutrient soup. Nor will the ribcage, stomach and all manner of features seem so irreducible and "perfect" once you understand man's lineage in a greater evolutionary context.

Mod Edit: Please Review the Following Link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

[edit on Sat Aug 14 2010 by Jbird]

reply to post by john_bmth


And once again you have failed to answer my question with a direct answer, why is that?

If you seemingly know the answer's then please explain....???

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by john_bmth

 

And once again you have failed to answer my question with a direct answer, why is that?

If you seemingly know the answer's then please explain....???

The answer is: evolution. That should be enough to get you going for now.

Originally posted by john_bmth

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by john_bmth

 

And once again you have failed to answer my question with a direct answer, why is that?

If you seemingly know the answer's then please explain....???

The answer is: evolution. That should be enough to get you going for now.

Once again, displaying close minded thinking and only believing what you have been "taught" or "learnt". Please explain the process how evolution developed the brain barrier or hydrochloric acid in the stomach and then maybe I'll go some way to believe in what you're saying.

Evolution is intelligent design. Things don't randomly evolve, they do so with a purpose, they adapt to their environment. Intelligence exists, right? Why shouldn't it exist outside a biological being? The creature creates itself. The action and the actor are one in the same. Both intelligent design and evolution exists, I'm sure you can all think of many examples. People design things with a purpose, people plan childbirth, people plant plants, people breed animals. Things also evolve on their own, children grow into adults, different species evolve to adapt to their environment. The founder of DNA has said there is no way its random, that doesn't mean a deity or god creature created it, it just means intelligence is out there, and humans have a severely limited definition of what it is.

DNA constitutes a very small algorithm that creates a very complicated system - It is not the only one.

Please check this video out in it's entirety. It's very long, but it's also worth the time invested. Stephen Wolfram, through his research - attempts to explain that very complicated systems CAN be achieved from very simple mathematical foundations.

This is tremendously similar to fractals (and fractal geometry as a whole), but only in that it can provide a glimpse into nearly any facet of mathematics or ultimately, the chaotic principals of nature's own formulations. Essentially, anything can be decrypted to a simplistic algorithm. Not just DNA.



Edit: Grammar.



[edit on 14-8-2010 by patmac]

Originally posted by Death_Kron
Once again, displaying close minded thinking and only believing what you have been "taught" or "learnt". Please explain the process how evolution developed the brain barrier or hydrochloric acid in the stomach and then maybe I'll go some way to believe in what you're saying.

I haven't read anything about evolution of the blood-brain barrier, but there are papers out there that discuss evolution of the parietal cells (the cells responsible for hydrochloric acid production in our stomachs) in terms of gene transfer of a specific enzyme from parasitic microorganisms to host organisms that had digestive systems but not parietal cells. Hydrochloric acid excreting digestive organs didn't exist before that and it's hypothesized that this took place sometime around the pre-Cambrian period.

The information is out there, you just have to be willing to search for it.

Is there a creator? I find it extremely hard to say there is not. At least for our universe.

Now, if we travel down the line; The universe where our creator exists -> the universe the houses our creator -> the universe that houses the universe that created our creator etc... Then, logically (at least logically in this universe anyways) when I get to the very beginning of everything there should be no creator. After all, something would have had to create the original creator.

This tells me the original universe must be extremely different from our universe. As, it would seem to me that things just always ...were... in the original universe... Maybe there is no time in the orginal universe though, so maybe that concept wouldn't be as weird as I orginally thought.

One more thing. Ever notice that in hotly debated topics both sides are partially right? Same here imo.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by sliceNodice]

Define chance.To say it happened by chance resolves nothing and would not be a very scientific conclusion.Not a conclusion at all in fact.
Lets say it is by chance.What then, is chance?Is chance god?Is this why the Casino is the new cathedral........ that would makes sense I guess.

What about millions of years of evolution not through chance but through stimulation and response and genetic memory,ever building a library of how-to and what-to using the best available means in the given environment.We've been recording genetic information since before we were shellfish most probably.I'm just speculating here..... not an authority on DNA.And thus I have a question for you.

Is there any evidence of binary encoding of information at the DNA level.What about with simpler organisms?It seems plausible to me that dichotomous processing of information would be the very first step of gene building in any living thing.
I have a hunch that the use of binary in the birth of computing might be more natural law than manly selection especially considering that computing was developed to replace processes of the human brain.
And it had to evolve from the same relative point origin as single cellular organisms,to where they stand today,on if not over,the brink of outdeveloping and outperforming the human brain.

Someone go right ahead and put a stop to my nonsense.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
S+F!

Look at things like Phi, the Fibonacci sequence and all the other mathematical observation's in nature, too perfect to be a coincidence!

Everything has been created in my opinion and to an almost perfect design, that's evidence right there alluding to the fact that we have a creator.

Thing like this nag me. you really gotta look at things from all perspectives. So as we say they are to perfect to be a coincidence right. This is all just my own theory on things from a different perspective. Lets say that the Big Bang is real. Poof! explosions occurs. Now imagine from the start of the bang till today as a "straight line". But now imagine that from the bang, things went in a little different "straight line" direction and everything we know today would be completely different. In this other realm of reality, I'm sure there would be things that would seem to be to perfect for coincidence. Also take sting theory into account. And I know its not %100 but life nowadays is really based on theories. Its said that everything is in a vibrating harmony, everything has a certain frequency it vibrates at down to the atom and smaller. If this vibrational frequency was a little bit different, this would not be the same as we know them to be today. I dont think "God" if he really exists, would go threw so much trouble and very fine detail.

Watch this video. I would suggest watching other of his videos. They really open up your mind to watch real and what' not.
www.youtube.com.../u/23/4B7XVbHYAt4

This is just my opinion. I'm not trying to make a debate or anything

[edit on 14-8-2010 by YouCanCallMeKM]

Originally posted by micpsi
And now for something different: here is how human DNA is represented by sacred geometries of religions:
smphillips.8m.com...
smphillips.8m.com...
smphillips.8m.com...
Now I know that notion is scientific blasphemy. But study the amazing correlations established in these research articles and you will have to conclude that they are inexplicable in conventional terms in a universe devoid of God.

This is what I like!
Look at these videos here.
tonecoloralchemy.com...
It touches on those subjects, and also how, sound is all inter-twined into everything. I really suggest you watch these videos when you got time. and www.youtube.com... has alot of videos like this as well.

Great thread! I skip the parts where it gets religious in nature - the paradox is this: who created the ultimate creator?

There are two things that intrigue me greatly:

1) The nature of self

2) Human development is a great example of compression algorithms at work. You start out with very little (46 chromosomes?) and it turns into billions of chromosomes, and a complete, functional human body.

Out of those first chromosomes comes the development of some extremely complex biology, and overall, a living being.

That is a big WTF for me! Decoding genes is one thing, but explaining that is something else...

Originally posted by Hadrian

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by 4nsicphd

 

The human body is an almost perfect machine, if you would like to argue how it was created by the big bang or from a primordial soup then be my guest I'd be very interested in listening to your argument!

Well, it's pretty good, sure, but perfect? How's about scoliosis, sickle-cell anemia, the problem with vestigial organs (like the appendix), genetic defects, stillborn babies, Elephantiasis, innate psychological disorders, and this doesn't include the myriad problems that arise from external effectors (like cancer; sleep disorders; vitamin deficiencies; innumerable diseases; back pain; proclivities to violence, alcoholism or other genetically-influenced/environmental conditions), etc.

[edit on Aug 14, 2010 by Hadrian]

You forgot death at about 75. Near perfect would have to be death a at least 1,000,000 years old or so.

In spite of the background bickering of the have/have nots in the religious section, I find the thread extremely delightful! Lets not muddy the waters with dogma and just be amazed at what lies within every living cell within these mortal shells!