Over 1 Billion Muslims and Growing

I just want to say that it is stupid to think that one billion people r idiots and they were fooled by wrong believes that came from satan.

And about terrorism, islam made it very clear in quran that starting an attack for personal gain is not allowed, i will try to translate a verse as much as possible but it says : "And fight the ones who fight you and do not assault because Allah hates the assaulters"

If u read the history of Mohammed, u would see that when he started telling people about islam, the people of Quraish (his tribe) tortued him and all who followed him but they refused to change their religion until they imigrated from mecca to medina leaving all their possessions behind, until muslims became strong enough to fight back, go on and read what he did when he opened mecca and entered it back as a winner, he asked the very people who totrued him and his followers:
"What do u think i will do to u?" they said: "you are a relative to us and son of good person from us" he said "I forgive u and u are free"

Interesting.. all this time has passed and little has changed.. In fact I think the division is growing.

I can't get through a day without hearing things like "we should nuke the whole middle east" "Kill all muslims and problem solved"

With each passing day of conflict and war we get closer to our own oblivion.

So are we at war with the terrorists?.. Or are we creating a war with Islam?

It was interesting to read this thread again.


Gazz

[edit on 10-5-2005 by UM_Gazz]

So why wasn't Ireland on the list??? And didn't that terorist guy, I can't remember his name, urge ALL Muslims to inveade the west or something?

I have to agree with the other guy.
One billion Muslims still, to this day haven't been responsible for near the amount of death and destruction that one billion christians have in the past fifty years.
Just a verifiable fact that I thought should stay out there in front of all of the propoganda.
By the way, I myself am unaffiliated with you folks who would maim and kill for your Gods.

[edit on 11-5-2005 by freddieb]

Actually,
Even though I posted the above. The newest figures do state that if the numbers continue as they are, in 2045 the majority of Europe will be Muslim.
This is due to the drop in birthrate for western society and the maintanence of the current birthrates and rates of European imigration by Muslims from the Middle east, due to the climate of warfare in that region.

Yeah we muslims are really going to kill all Christians altrough they believe in a religion send by god. Muslims have nothing against people with other religions. Look at the past. The Ottoman empire conquered Albania. In the beginning there were almost no muslims. Also they didnt get forced to convert unlike the anti muslim propaganda that says that. If you simply google for islam in the balkan you will only see gradual conversion. However in Spain when the Spaniards conquered Moorish territory they were forced to convert or leave. Loads of Muslims and Jews left spain to settle in Ottoman territory. Now very rarely Christians are forced to convert too Islam by some people who i refuse to call muslims as they dont act like one and people scream see see they are the enemy. Forget what we have done in the past because they do it know and only they count not or repeated attacks against muslims in the past. Sometimes i wonder why things like this didnt happen before because of all the anti muslim actions in the world.

Now everyone remember a forced conversion is a false one for us. So using violence is out of the question. Killing people of other religions is something that never should be done by muslims otherwise they are fake muslims who will burn in hell i think.

There is still a question I'd like to see an answer to..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Newsweek has officially retracted the story as of right now..

Too late?

Damage done?

Again I ask... Are we fighting terrorists, or creating a war with Islam??




Gazz

[edit on 16-5-2005 by UM_Gazz]

I don't know about any conspiracy involving all the muslims, but a lot of shady things do go on in the middle east.
Muslims are alowed to fight when they have been oppressed. Oppression in the Quran is identified in many ways:

* If you are driven out of your home.
And what happened? The Israelis bulldozed peoples houses after giving them 24hrs to get off.

* If you are prevented from practicing your religion (Being not allowed in the mosque is specifically mentioned)
And what happened? When there is some special muslim festival, or friday prayers on an important day, Those between the age of 18 and 40 are not allowed in.

Now there are these allegations of desecration of the Quran. All this stuff is leading the Arabs into a corner. There is something even stronger than religion in the Arab mentality. It is Pride. And their pride has been hurt pretty bad.

It's almost as if some behind the scenes person is controlling the Middle East problem, so that there will be perptual fighting. No idea who it is, though. Can't possibly be the Israelis. I mean, they are getting their own killed.

Dont be so sure its not the israelis, anyway i thought muslims want another crusade, i mean we had some a thousand years ago, but my impression from bin laden is he wants another. I am aware muslims call us christians people of the book, but does that mean they respect us? i dont know, christians are a prideful people as well and our pride, our trust was crushed on 9/11, we supported the muslim offensive against the soviets, we gave them weapons, only to turn around a few years later and have a knife put in our back. We defending saudi arabia and kuwait from saddam.
why did we deserve to be killed? because te israelis have commited horrible crimes and the arab world thinks we support them when in reality the support from the US is deminishing because they also betrayed us and sold technology to china. So do we have any allies in the middle east? are we at war with islam?

I have seen a lot of hate on this forum and ignorance. Most of you admit that you never have read the Koran. So how do you know what it says? You don’t, you have to rely on what you hear. You could argue Christianity is Dangerous with the Crusades, KKK, and Bosnia. The only reason you don’t hear that, is because in the USA we know what the Bible really teaches. The Koran teaches the same thing, peace and love and the worship of the God of Abraham. Islam and Christianity share the same God and most of the same prophets. It is not the religion that is murderous. That is just ignorance.

I have been to the Mideast and have talked to many Muslims. It is not the faith that you see that causes these evil acts of terror.

1. Poverty= Some schools teach a perverted form of Islam. Some kids this is the only place that offers them an education, and all they learn it how to read the Koran, and not the true meaning. They get a form of Islam that preaches just hate. Not the real meaning of the Koran. It would be someone teaching about the Bible, that all Jews are evil because they killed Christ.

2. Culture- A lot of it is in the Culture. If you go in a book store in Iraq or Saudi Arabia or Egypt, you will see a lot of anti Israel and USA books. Im talking whole sections of books devoted to it. They even have comic books for the kids. Some look at there great past and see how there country is now, poor and a weaker military. They want to feel there pride, swell up again. Look at Islami.com or other Mideast news sites. You will see them always pointing out how Arabs helped the Europeans achieve there renascence.

3. Empire= The US is looked upon as an Empire, that is pushing everyone around. Epically the Mid East, because of oil.

4. Palestine= They see this as a great misdeed and a crime. They fell humiliated by the suffering of Arabs, by the Jews.

5. There government, censors them and sometimes panders to the Anti US talk. Not to mention lets terrorist cells form and sometimes backs them behind the scenes.

These are some of the real reasons you see terrorist. These terrorist, you see do not follow what the Koran preaches, just like the KKK does not follow the Bible.



[edit on 17-5-2005 by Snowman9]

[edit on 17-5-2005 by Snowman9]

[edit on 17-5-2005 by Snowman9]

[edit on 17-5-2005 by Snowman9]

Originally posted by freddieb
I have to agree with the other guy.
One billion Muslims still, to this day haven't been responsible for near the amount of death and destruction that one billion christians have in the past fifty years.
Just a verifiable fact that I thought should stay out there in front of all of the propoganda.

check your facts again, that is not true at all, this peace stuff is propoganda that contradicts the koran, i like how people lie and twist the bible into an evil book and bash christians and jews, yet if anyone says islam is bad or we say anything about the koran we're racist, biggoted, ignorant or whatever, can you say hypocracy?

Originally posted by Trustnone
anyway i thought muslims want another crusade, i mean we had some a thousand years ago, but my impression from bin laden is he wants another.

Bin Laden certainly wants another crusade. But I wouldn't take him up for a representative of all of Islam. He wants a return to a 16th century theocracy, with himself as the head. He's all in it for power. Before all this al-qaida stuff, he wasn't even remotely religious. He was known to drink, and spend large amounts of time womanising.

Originally posted by Trustnone
I am aware muslims call us christians people of the book, but does that mean they respect us? i dont know, christians are a prideful people as well and our pride, our trust was crushed on 9/11, we supported the muslim offensive against the soviets, we gave them weapons, only to turn around a few years later and have a knife put in our back. We defending saudi arabia and kuwait from saddam.

I wouldn't call Christians a proud people, at least not in with the negative connatations of the word. Jesus consistently preached humbleness. I mean he washed his own disciples feet! Christians are very close to muslims. Here is something from the Quran:

5:82
and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

In fact, at the time of the creation of Israel, there was a very large number of Christians, and even Jews. Although most Christians palestenians quietly left and started new lives in other countries, there are a number of prominent Christians who resisted. That's why the Palestenians, while saying they are opposed to certain "western ideologies" and "zionists", can't really go against Christianity or Judaism.

Matthew 7:15-23
What Jesus said about false religions and false prophots

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Who ever said lets ban Religion ...lol

Religion is a belif an ideology, a system. When you state, to ban religion, you state to ban a these thing's, without these thing's there is no life.

So i wake every morning, i eat a certain food, i talk in certain manner, i live by my rules, i go out to nightclub's drink and smoke, pick a girl and mate with her, go home and sleep. That is religion a lifesyte, a way of life.

You can't state lets ban religion, is like saying lets ban way of life...

You can only state lets ban certain ways of life, that causes society too much harm.

Also rememember this the oldtestment was written by a heap of jewish men. The New testement Jewish and gentiles. There are heaps of mind's, point to common good in these books.

But Islam was written be an arab, one man.

Imagine a unversity that only had one proffesor? Do you think that the students will benfit?

Who ever said, Berg and recent islamic ritual of beheading's was put so the world could depise the muslim world. Give me a break, arabs have been choping heads ever since Islam came to power. Have you ever seen the russian soilders being beheaded by Islamic Fighters? This was way before sept 11.

Islam is not a peaceful religion. Everything that muslim do today, hijackings, ransom, kidnappings and ritual beheading's it's not prompted, it is taught to the followers of islam. You want proof read the Koran. Muslim's in terrrorist mentality, because it's their culture, their way, their religion the mind of mohammed, shapes their lives. This why they act so uncivlilsed.

Now lets look at christians, jesus clones? Well they are not acting like the muslims. Ever seen a christian hijack a plane, kidnappe someone, ransom someone, behead someone for jesus? No i haven't, ever seen a jew hijack a plane, kidnappe someone, ransom someone behead someone?

Mmm i wonder why???? oh bible and totah don't teach that type of culture. Supprisse???

Islam causes terrorist movements where islam is followed, because terror is it's core weapon, core tactices againist non muslims.

Originally posted by Snowman9
I have seen a lot of hate on this forum and ignorance. Most of you admit that you never have read the Koran. So how do you know what it says? You don’t, you have to rely on what you hear. You could argue Christianity is Dangerous with the Crusades, KKK, and Bosnia. The only reason you don’t hear that, is because in the USA we know what the Bible really teaches. The Koran teaches the same thing, peace and love and the worship of the God of Abraham. Islam and Christianity share the same God and most of the same prophets. It is not the religion that is murderous. That is just ignorance.

I have been to the Mideast and have talked to many Muslims. It is not the faith that you see that causes these evil acts of terror.

1. Poverty= Some schools teach a perverted form of Islam. Some kids this is the only place that offers them an education, and all they learn it how to read the Koran, and not the true meaning. They get a form of Islam that preaches just hate. Not the real meaning of the Koran. It would be someone teaching about the Bible, that all Jews are evil because they killed Christ.

2. Culture- A lot of it is in the Culture. If you go in a book store in Iraq or Saudi Arabia or Egypt, you will see a lot of anti Israel and USA books. Im talking whole sections of books devoted to it. They even have comic books for the kids. Some look at there great past and see how there country is now, poor and a weaker military. They want to feel there pride, swell up again. Look at Islami.com or other Mideast news sites. You will see them always pointing out how Arabs helped the Europeans achieve there renascence.

3. Empire= The US is looked upon as an Empire, that is pushing everyone around. Epically the Mid East, because of oil.

4. Palestine= They see this as a great misdeed and a crime. They fell humiliated by the suffering of Arabs, by the Jews.

5. There government, censors them and sometimes panders to the Anti US talk. Not to mention lets terrorist cells form and sometimes backs them behind the scenes.

These are some of the real reasons you see terrorist. These terrorist, you see do not follow what the Koran preaches, just like the KKK does not follow the Bible.



[edit on 17-5-2005 by Snowman9]

[edit on 17-5-2005 by Snowman9]

[edit on 17-5-2005 by Snowman9]

[edit on 17-5-2005 by Snowman9]

What utter nonse

Islam hates the jews and the christians, it even says in the koran. The culture is the koran.

"""
4. Palestine= They see this as a great misdeed and a crime. They fell humiliated by the suffering of Arabs, by the Jews. """

What about spain, greece, france, hungry, serbia which where invaded, were they not humiliated by suffering, by the arab's that killed the soilders of that nation?

Crusades ohhh they complain. Lets compare the size of islamic crusade againist the christian crusader was the difference? 1/20 ????

Europe has had been invaded, by the muslim whoremonger's for hundred of years. It's now time for Muslims to taste their own medcine.

all i see from arab's is lies, propanganda, pride, arrogance, and inablity to look at themselves as the oppressor's.

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
There is still a question I'd like to see an answer to..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Newsweek has officially retracted the story as of right now..

Too late?

Damage done?

Again I ask... Are we fighting terrorists, or creating a war with Islam??




Gazz

[edit on 16-5-2005 by UM_Gazz]

Good question Gazz, i would say someone is deliberately trying to stir the whole middle east into a conflict. Who stands to gain from the conflict? Well not the arabs living there thats for sure. Military and oil corporations is my bet. And since they are the biggest lobbyists in US there you have it. Thousands of innocent lives lost, and a few that are actually guilty.


TheTruth123, i would write something meaningless to you, but instead i will give you a little advice if i may....try reading the posts before yours, you might actually learn something.

You know a good person is a good person no matter what religion he was born into. They all preach the same. And i should know, i had one grandmother muslim, and other christian. They knew a little something about life, neither has ever told me to hate anyone.

Cheers to everybody that still see both sides of the coin

"You know a good person is a good person no matter what religion he was born into. They all preach the same."

You saying Jesus and Mohammed are the same. No they are not.

There might be good people, that are born into a muslim religion that don't not listen to koran's, jihad, brutality and don't not have the same view of christians and jews as mohammed had. They might come call them selves muslims. Like other religion's some people, like to have a view on how their religion should be and how it should be taught.

But i will say, Islam is clear, in what it's image is. Most muslim's are trying to change the orginal msg of mohammed to more a passive type view. But it's pure ignorance in themselves. They just can't believe they have been following a way of life, that teaches to terrorize non muslims. So they keep on lying to themselves saying that the "TERRORISTS" are not muslims, i am a real muslims. But the reality is the terrorist muslims are the Muslims, the followers of mohammed and his ideology.

So called, people passive muslims. Shoudl just join christanity. Since Christianity doesn't preach terror.

[edit on 17-5-2005 by TheTruth123]

UM Gazz, I share your shock at the amount of people calling for a war against Islam. I share your shock at the racism being peddeled by many, many of whom seem to be Christian fundamentalists, Bush supports or plain brainwashed.

What do you think this all this hatred, and all those people jumping on the bandwagon of "Let's nuke Islam" is going to amount to and how do you think minorities like Asians in western countries, are going to be affected by this?

The thought of this scares me.

Originally posted by TheTruth123
Who ever said lets ban Religion ...lol

Hmmm....WHO said "lets ban Religion"? I can't see that anywhere in this topic, or in anyway related to it. Care to explain?

BTW, that pic you posted is from an Iranian anti-Islam site. I don't know what you were trying to prove...It's like me drawing a Buddhist destroying things, and then posting it on the net.

Originally posted by TheTruth123
Also rememember this the oldtestment was written by a heap of jewish men. The New testement Jewish and gentiles. There are heaps of mind's, point to common good in these books.
But Islam was written be an arab, one man.

You trying to start a competetion on which religion is better? I wasn't attacking you, if that's what you think..... The Quran wasn't written by any man. It is said to have been dictated by God to Muhammad. I'd think that would have a little more authority than "a heap of Jewish and gentiles".

nukunuku, Military and oil corporations may be prominent now, but were they all that important when all this trouble started? I don't think so.

Indigo, I think another point UM_Gazz was trying to make wasn't only involving the Asians in minority countries, but muslims in all these other countries. If anyone actually declared war on Islam openly, the wave of opposition would be incredible. I mean ~1 billion + muslims! That is why I don't believe anyone will do something like that. Much better is this quiet, subtle method of setting things up so that others do their work for them....

wow.... I think I'll make a pretty good conspiracy theorist

Yeah we muslims highjack and murder daily.

There is a difference between war and opression. War is just fighting between millitairies oppression is when the people arent allowed to do certain thing other people are allowed too.