i cant even speak..after watching this

reply to post by mydarkpassenger


The RPG story has never been verified and on closer inspection, it looks a lot like a telescopic lens. There were photojournalists in the crowd and the image you are referring to is when the Apache's camera zooms in on a figure peering round a corner, quite possibly to take a photo.

After sticking around for a few weeks, I began to see ATS as an online bashing forum for people who are anti-military and anti-American. I don't know where most of you come from, nor do I really care at this point.

When I see a soldier defending himself in the first page (and people bash him for defending his country), I see something very-very wrong with how these wars have been perceived. I don't know where everyone got their information, but both wars were/are very necessary for national security reasons. Saddam was a military tyrant, and Osama killed 3,000+ people on 9/11/2001.

Somewhere over the past nine years, the media entered into a horrific propaganda campaign. MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, and CNN set out on a goal to distort the facts, and a crap load of people bought into their lies. Sure, President Bush majorly messed up selling the wars, and also did a horrible job on planning and strategy. However, that should not overshadow why we 'counter-attacked' those countries.

Do we belong in Afghanistan at this point? No. Obama reignited a war that should have been let go, and Bush warned everyone about going back. At this point in time, we have to deal with the here and now. Afghanistan is a very hard country to control, and it put the USSR into a devastating economic crises. It eventually caused the country to split; thus, the USSR is no longer in existence. Afghanistan has now turned into a civil war.

Did we belong in Afghanistan after 9/11/2001? Absolutely, 100% Yes. I don't care about what type of propaganda you all heard, but the facts are as light and blue as the day. We were attacked by extremists who were living, operating, and hiding in Afghanistan. Period.

When it comes to the war on Iraq... It does not matter if Bush lied to us or not. Saddam's role model was noted as being Joseph Starlin. Everything Saddam had done over the years was in reflection of his hero. If an Iraqi spoke out against their leader, Saddam would have them publicly hanged. He also use to test chemical weapons on his people. He was a viscous, scheming, and cold-blooded killer. Period.

I don't care about anyone's theories or counter-arguments on what I just said, and I am not going to respond to anyone who thinks otherwise.

I don't like how people are addressing the United States military in these forums, and I ask you all to give them your respect.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Section31]

Isn't this all about divide and conquor?

We are all victims of war?

reply to post by Section31


There is an ex military guy here making some very serious allegations, which in this moment are unverifiable. If true, then it is a serious mainstream story, but the facts are hard to check.

Originally posted by Eldix
I went to help my brothers survive. You all think that it's a simple matter of saying "No." Would you say "No." if your blood brother was going over there? Would you let him go alone?

While I greatly respect your loyalty and sense of selflessness to defend a fellow brother, I think a better question would have been, "Since the war is senseless how do I convince those I love to not go in the first place?"

By the sounds of it everyone you're serving with you feel is a fellow kinsman. If I read you correctly, then this man, Mike Prysner, would qualify as a brother in arms,



I think he says it well. We do not solve violence with more violence.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Xtraeme]

Originally posted by Section31
After sticking around for a few weeks, I began to see ATS as an online bashing forum for people who are anti-military and anti-American. I don't know where most of you come from, nor do I really care at this point.

When I see a soldier defending himself in the first page (and people bash him for defending his country), I see something very-very wrong with how these wars have been perceived.

I am getting a little sick of reading accusations of things that have just not happened. This is about 4 pages in a row with someone claiming we are all hating all military or bashing all Americans or calling people the bad guy or any other number of things not actually happening. The "soldier" you are talking about began his fore into this thread by attacking the man in the OP's video and calling him a liar. He rambled on angrily and closed with an attack

This guy probably had a horrible carrer with the military and is just disgruntled.

Now if you can find one post where anyone bashed anyone for defending the US, please bring it.

I don't like how people are addressing the United States military in these forums, and I ask you all to give them your respect

Respect is earned and when you toss it away with your opening statement, you have to try that much harder to earn it. There is also the simple fact that I see no reason to respect anyone on an internet forum more or less than anyone else because they claim to be a soldier. This is a place where people regularly claim to be aliens and Jesus so sometimes you kind of have to walk the walk a little before we can tell if the shoes really fit.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Adevoc Satanae]

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by Section31

 

There is an ex military guy here making some very serious allegations, which in this moment are unverifiable. If true, then it is a serious mainstream story, but the facts are hard to check.

So, that excuses the disrespect people are showing for the United States and it's military?

Come on. Seriously?

Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae
Now if you can find one post where anyone bashed anyone for defending the US, please bring it.

Page #1 & #2 - Read the both pages.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Section31]

Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae
I think we are pretty much on the same page. I do not blame the military for anything or hate the military at all. I do not even understand why the "soldiers" of ATS keep making that claim(whine.)

I think there's a plague of 'absolutes' when it comes to any heated debate. The absolutes are used most by those who cannot logically argue that their position is the most correct.

These ones that want to watch other Americans die and lose their freedom because they do not agree with shooting an unarmed van with kids in it are a different story altogether.

I agree. I've read many of their posts on this thread, where they claim to be protecting our citizens, and one or two sentences later they say they want to watch some of us bleed to death while saying something sarcastic as we fade away. But, I think they are kinda half throwing cyber-tantrums because they are frustrated when others don't see things their way. That said, as you pointed out earlier, they will be the ones that are easy to turn against us if it ever comes to that, which is scary. The more level headed soldiers, who know that the right of Americans to disagree is one of the things they are supposed to be fighting for, would stand with their countrymen over the corporate hijackers. At least we can hope...

I have a lot of close friends in all areas of the military Ranging from the Army Special Forces to the National Guard. They have all done tours in Iraq and Afganistan. Their stories about children in these countries are a little different than what the soldier in the video stated. One of my best friends has actually had to shoot children who were strapped with explosives and told to go to the Americans. The extremist use children against both us, as well as other Muslims. It's the way people there fight. They have no value for human life, neither their own or others. Our soldiers are doing what it takes to protect the Muslims and citizens who actually do value human life. Whether you like it or not, we are doing what is necessary there. We may be there because of oil, cleaning up our mess with Saddam, or whatever else you want to say, but the by-product is something that should have happened to that area a long time ago.

Originally posted by Section31
Page #1 - Read the whole page. Like I said in my first post.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Section31]

Yeah I looked.

Thanks for the expected copout. Why do you guys even say this stuff? You are going to get called out on it.

Well I only read through to page 7 because I figured I'd be seeing the same kind of posts over and over, but I wanted to finally add my $0.02...

What Ethan McCord said towards the end of the video (after 14:10) was this:

"My emotions were taking over...The very thing the Army had taught us not to do in war, I was doing...My humanity and my love for the human race was overcoming everything they had taught me..."

When will everybody realize that this is what it's about? I'm not ignorant to the fact that there will be "bad apples" throughout the world of every race, religion, country, and creed. But like many others on here who have wrote, going in and killing some of the "bad", while also killing some of the good, will amount to nothing. IT IS about the human race. Every war is a civil war. I support our troops 110%, and I support war 0%...

I was in the process of being enlisted in the USAF a year ago, and was down to my 45 day briefing. I wanted to be a pilot. I wanted to eventually become an astronaut, a dream I have had since I was a kid...
But after really thinking about it, reevaluating my morals and such, I knew I couldn't do it. I'm not a killer. I knew that I would eventually be deployed and possibly have to kill others while possibly collaterally killing civilians. I wouldn't be able to live with that blood on my hands...

With that said, I hope more soldiers like Ethan will come out more and talk of these atrocities. More importantly, I hope more soldiers like him will realize, "wake up" so to speak, and feel love towards humanity and the human race.

Just my two cents

--AITM

Well I only read through to page 7 because I figured I'd be seeing the same kind of posts over and over, but I wanted to finally add my $0.02...

What Ethan McCord said towards the end of the video (after 14:10) was this:

"My emotions were taking over...The very thing the Army had taught us not to do in war, I was doing...My humanity and my love for the human race was overcoming everything they had taught me..."

When will everybody realize that this is what it's about? I'm not ignorant to the fact that there will be "bad apples" throughout the world of every race, religion, country, and creed. But like many others on here who have wrote, going in and killing some of the "bad", while also killing some of the good, will amount to nothing. IT IS about the human race. Every war is a civil war. I support our troops 110%, and I support war 0%...

I was in the process of being enlisted in the USAF a year ago, and was down to my 45 day briefing. I wanted to be a pilot. I wanted to eventually become an astronaut, a dream I have had since I was a kid...
But after really thinking about it, reevaluating my morals and such, I knew I couldn't do it. I'm not a killer. I knew that I would eventually be deployed and possibly have to kill others while possibly collaterally killing civilians. I wouldn't be able to live with that blood on my hands...

With that said, I hope more soldiers like Ethan will come out more and talk of these atrocities. More importantly, I hope more soldiers like him will realize, "wake up" so to speak, and feel love towards humanity and the human race.

Just my two cents

--AITM

EDIT: OOPS! sorry for the double post

[edit on 14-8-2010 by AllinTheMind89]

Originally posted by Section31
After sticking around for a few weeks, I began to see ATS as an online bashing forum for people who are anti-military and anti-American. I don't know where most of you come from, nor do I really care at this point.

Funny, I've seen alot of threads about how ATS is an online forum for racist, nationalist, warmongers. I've also seen threads complaining that ATS is a site for partisan hacks, and I've seen them complaining that everybody on ATS believes conspiracy theories. And I've seen them saying ATS is a site for bashing religion, etc. etc. etc. ATS is a site with MANY different members, all over the world. It's getting annoying reading all these threads/posts suggesting the entire site leans one way or the other, because one thread isn't going your way.

Originally posted by thomasc83
I have a lot of close friends in all areas of the military Ranging from the Army Special Forces to the National Guard. They have all done tours in Iraq and Afganistan. Their stories about children in these countries are a little different than what the soldier in the video stated. One of my best friends has actually had to shoot children who were strapped with explosives and told to go to the Americans.

I do not doubt that. I really do not. Believe me I could not have more sympathy for someone who is put in the position of having to take the life of a child merely out of self preservation. That is a terrible position to be in. I can think of a few ways to prevent it though.

The thing is, the ATS "military" is crying all over this thread about how everyone just hates all military. I will not even bother with that and just speak for myself. I am addressing the very specific event in the video with my disgust at innocent children being killed. Those kids had no bombs. Those kids were not advancing on the chopper. Those kids were in the van of someone trying to save wounded people, probably friends or family.

Yes, there are bad things that happen to our soldiers. Yes, there are great soldiers. Yes the military is capable of doing good and does. In this case, it did very very wrong. Unfortunately, in this case we have an example of not only the wrong thing but highly counterproductive things.

This video does not fit the bombstrapped child approaching with flowers. This is not about the woman with a package taped to her hands. This is about indiscriminately shooting civilians. Just because there are good soldiers and bad guys does not mean we should ignore events that do the very thing we claim to be over there preventing.

The extremist use children against both us, as well as other Muslims. It's the way people there fight. They have no value for human life, neither their own or others. Our soldiers are doing what it takes to protect the Muslims and citizens who actually do value human life.

Even if they have to kill a few along the way, right? I know that when the neighbor's dog was bothering my cats when I had the windows open the solution seemed so simple. If only someone would come in here and kill the dog and half my cats, the surviving cat would be way better off.

Whether you like it or not, we are doing what is necessary there. We may be there because of oil, cleaning up our mess with Saddam, or whatever else you want to say, but the by-product is something that should have happened to that area a long time ago.

What is that?

Originally posted by DONNYxMC
reply to post by Adevoc Satanae

 

hahah ok man. google some more stuff.. this is dumb.

What would you like me to google?

you really think some random dude on the internet is gonna make a difference to me?

Yes actually. I can get your story in at least the local paper but I can also get you in touch with another member who works closely with the producers at two different news stations here. It is just local but we have a large market, plenty of coverage - birthplace of kodak film and xerox and all.

oh man your right... i must have been in a coma for 6 years and made the whole thing up so i can impress some random people i dont even know on the interweb. ahahahah [snip]

You think your story is one that would impress? That makes me far more curious that anyone who actually witnessed such atrocities would frame it as something said to impress, even in jest.

I guess I thought you came on here talking about how bad it is in Iraq and giving a startling example because you were countering the bad press that is the OP. Questions and the opportunities to expose the story seem to be having the opposite effect. Why did you bring it up?



[edit on 14-8-2010 by Adevoc Satanae]

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Adevoc Satanae]

Proud of nothing you have done, because that what we bring to them.

The thanks and smile you see in Iraq is made from broken heart, broken heart seeing their country destroyed by war, war that started from the stupid allegations, that started when looking for WMD. Which is never found because its not there. And all of this bulls*t start from the useless leaders decision.

US and allied arm force have no rights to be there in the first place. The insurgent the is actually the patriot of their nation. And you patriot of the leaders greed and misuse against humanity.

At least the Iraq people can walk like normal people BEFORE the war. We go bomb and now they barely can walk. You have done your part, now do YOUR OWN part.

North Korean leader is cruel to their people, far more than Saddam. During Saddam they can walk anywhere they like, now they cant, all because of stupid war started by the inept goverments.

Are you willing to direct your anger to the leaders ? Who sits on leather chair drinking fine wine while chatting about their next vacation. While you live the trauma ?

Would you like to join us punish the damn leaders ?

Click and learn what we saw when you are there. Stop the stupidity that we brought.

Iraq Veterans Against the War

Put your anger there, in the right place, not here ATS or in Iraq. Boasting about being right bring you nowhere, do the action. Inform other about the IVAW and support their actions.

Proud of nothing you have done, because YOU have done nothing yet.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by RainCloud]

reply to post by Section31


No, please don't take my post out of context. Nowhere have I 'disrespected' the military, only questioned what a member is posting.

There has been heated discussion from all sides in this thread. Being in the military doesn't command automatic respect. Like every person, respect is earned through his or her actions and never demanded.

No one tells me who my enemy is and no one tells me who I should support.

Edit to say: An ex military member has posted a horrific story that needs to be checked out. If it is true, then it should be reported. If not, then the posters motives need to be questioned whether ex military or not.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by LarryLove]

I think it's got as bad as it has over in Iraq & Afghanistan because they feel threatened at such a large military presence, and feel they got a war to fight.

You got to understand that the people we call terrorist think what they are doing is right, and in their minds, the US aren't there to HELP them, to them it looks like the US are just taking over, and if we were in their sitution and we believed someone was invading our country, wouldn't you fight?
ESPECIALLY after they take control of your goverment.

I personally believe we should of left after the finding of Saddam Huissein and the fact we found out they were no longer in possession of WMDs, and haven't been since 1991.


BUT that's just me ;-)

Originally posted by Section31
... I don't know where everyone got their information, but both wars were/are very necessary for national security reasons. Saddam was a military tyrant, and Osama killed 3,000+ people on 9/11/2001.
...

I don't care about anyone's theories or counter-arguments on what I just said, and I am not going to respond to anyone who thinks otherwise.

You are completely wrong but as you have no intention of considering any evidence to the contrary, I won't waste any time presenting any. Having read through the 20 pages (so far) of this thread, I know that most of the important bits have already been covered anyway.

If you ever open your mind enough to grasp the full history leading up to these wars as well as the historical evidence of the conduct of the subsequent occupation that confirms why the west invaded these countries, then you too will become an opponent of the war. That's if you still have any humanity left inside you.

Although I respect the US Military and, as with many things, you can't condemn the whole for the fault of the few, but alot of things this guy says just confirm what alot of America's allies in ISAF and the Coalition have been saying for years... the 'bravado' and 'machismo' attitude of the Americans often makes them extremely unprofessional and incompetent to work with in the combat theatre. I know that the Brits had been grumbling about this at the upper echelons for years when we were in Iraq with them, and if I recall correctly, there was some personal memo of a British General leaked discussing his attitude toward the American military. Granted, our military is not exactly fighting-fit anymore due to financial cutbacks which basically leave us unequipped to fight some of the missions assigned, but there is never any sacrifice in professionalism or the core values of our service.