i cant even speak..after watching this

Originally posted by DONNYxMC
reply to post by Faustian Spirit

 

give me a break. you dont know me or my beliefs. you just sit behind a computer screen calling me "son" and "kiddo"

Unlike you who is here in the flesh?

you people have lost your minds

If you do not realize you are sitting behind a computer screen just typing things too then I think lost minds is more of a relative concept.

Maybe the attitude some of you come in here with is the problem. You know that whole "you people do not deserve your freedom" "I hope I get to watch" "We are fighting for YOUR freedom" yadda yadda yadda nonsense?

How about I break into your neighbor's house and kill half the family. Then I set up shop there for a few years because I need to protect the living family members from each other. Had I not shown up in time, they would all be dead and it would have been an empty house, right? Then when you come outside and complain that I came and killed your neighbors for no reason, when I tell you to thank me for protecting you from the threat you never knew you had and I cannot really prove ever existed should I expect flowers or candy?

Originally posted by airspoon
I can almost guarantee that orders were not sent from above to shoot at [innocent] children. In fact, any soldier with even a small amount of humanity and experience wouldn't do it anyway.

You are probably right. Any soldier with even a small amount of humanity might not do it. Unfortunately we have a video of people doing exactly what you just said would not be done. I guess that means there are soldiers without even a little humanity because no matter how many times you tell yourself that soldiers would not fire on innocent children even if ordered to, we can watch them do it in the video in the OP over and over and over again.

Originally posted by DONNYxMC
reply to post by Adevoc Satanae

 

you have yet to make any valid points. all you have done is argue and pick apart our replies and proved nothing. you are arguing for the sake of arguing

I was not aware I had to make points or was trying to make points. I was asking you questions but you were so busy crying "attack attack" when there was none, no discussion came of it.

i will reply to this once and for all with the only information i know. and then im done with you guys. i hope this answers your questions.

it was august 2008, dont remember the exact day but i wanna say around the 23 or 24. we were traveling from house to house in south east iraq on some street i cant even pronounce. it was around 730 or 8. pretty close to dark. there was a our unit of and a few members from 10th group because we had heard of some key member of the saddams SS were in the area headed insurgence and making bombs.

we went through about 15 houses and sometime around midnight we kick in a door of a completely empty house. it was weird in this neighborhood. for a house to be so bare. the dogs we had with us were barking crazy and it was obviouse explosives were in the house. when the dogs left the house and our NCO radioed the USAF EOD guy to sweep and check the hourse with the members of 10th group we heard children crying. we yelled towards the basement(which was completely black) and got no reply.

our translator starting yelling and i dont know what he said. but he got a response from what sounded like a couple of children. we entered the room as we have been trained and proceeded with caution as most insurgents will use children as bait to pull us into a trap. i was the third man to enter the basement.

in front of us was a table with a child about 10-12 years of age who had cut open with surgical knives from his groin to his upper chest. (about 6 inches past the sternum) inside was what our dog (bullet) was barking at. some small mortors. couldnt tell you the size exactly the childs intestines were covering most of it. the EOD guy told us it wasnt wired or configured so we were safe to proceed.

we entered the next room and it was HUGE. cages were stacked three high and in rows of ten. about two rows and one or two cages off to the side. inside the cages were children from the ages 8 to 13 and one kid who was 17 or close to it. dont know exactly just guessing ages. i dont know what they were screaming and crying about. i dont speak or understand their language.
i know like two words... move and stop and friendly

our translator pulled the oldest child to the street outside and spoke with him. from what i could gather from him telling our seargent is that the kids were kidnapped from all over the city. some were raped, some where told if they didnt shoot at US troops there families would be killed. some were killed and cut open and filled with explosives. and who knows what else. me and two other guys took some bolt cutters from the HMV the EOD guys were in and opened each cage one at a time and escorted the children to a bigger truck and they were driven off into the night. by the time i got to around number 34 or 35 i was replaced by soldiers who drove in to replace us so that we could move on with our search from house to house.

i dont know where the kids ended up. i only know what i saw and what i overheard from the translator.

some kids were dead in their cages.

i will never forget the first kid. he grabbed me so tight and wouldnt let go of my hand. the smell in that basement will haunt me forever. im sure the children and their families are thankfull we are there. no doubt in my mind.

i dont care if there was never WMDs in Iraq. evil men ruled that country and did what they please. that was ONE NIGHT. can you imagine what being in Iraq for 6 years was like?

After watching THAT video, i wonder did the Apache gunner have the little HUD icon pop up in their helmet that pointed at the children in the van? Oh wait, that was added in AFTER the event.

What this wikileaker is doing is purposely twisting and putting things out of context. What did I see when I watched the video? I hear a convoy approaching the area. Armed men were spotted. A group is spotted with AK-47 (i have never seen anyone shoulder a camera like that. ) and RPGs. The Apache comes to see and confirms armed men down the road from the approaching convoy. They then later see one of them hiding around the corner aiming TOWARDS the approaching convoy, with what looked to me, an RPG. Well gee, a group of armed men, hiding around a corner, with one with an RPG aiming down the street. The Apache gunner asks permission to fire and is allowed. Of course the gunner is anxious, as these guys were a genuine threat to the approaching convoy. He engages the enemy. Afterwards a van approaches and it looks like they are going to sanitize the scene, clear weapons, and save the insurgents. I dont see any medical markings, or lights or anything. I did NOT see the chlidren until the video was edited to zoom in and have the little arrows point out the kids barely visible in the van. Obviously this van was a threat to the approaching convoy and was also engaged. I didnt hear the gunner, or anyone else (pilot, gunner, observers) mention, Hey there are kids there. If it was so obvious, someone would have noticed and mentioned it. As far as I am concerned, this was a legit engagement of the enemy. The convoy approached and saw the scene, and THEN they saw the children. Well, gee, good job on the parenting there, dumba$$ driver. No, I'm sorry, this was not a deliberate attack on children or innocent civilians.

I would agree with you if it looked like this:


But it was nothing of the sort. This wikileaks douche should be tried for falsefying video and manipulating evidence to show something that did not occur. Oh and real cute trying to point out the kids in the van. I'm sure the pilots and gunners had the same little HUD pop up in thier helmets that showed them as children.

reply to post by Perplexity


The overseas war, or, in portuguese, Ultramar, from 1959/75, 1.ª Companhia do Batalhão de Caçadores Pára-Quedistas 32 (1st company of the 32nd Hunters' Batallion of Paratroopers); India, S. Tome e Principe, Angola, Guine, Cape verde, Macau, Mozambique and Timor. Were you alive back then? Ever heard of it? I guess not, having in mind there was no such information in the world as there is now. Or culture, for that matter. Sorry if I don't provide you much more answers in order for you to make jokes. Just don't treat youngs and olds alike like idiots because you think you have holier than thou issues. Sorry if there are mistakes, but it's not easy to speak or write perfectly in several different languages. Be good.

reply to post by GenRadek


I love you, even though you are talking destructive and evil talk. I forgive you regardless.

Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae

Originally posted by DONNYxMC
reply to post by Faustian Spirit

 

give me a break. you dont know me or my beliefs. you just sit behind a computer screen calling me "son" and "kiddo"

Unlike you who is here in the flesh?

you people have lost your minds

If you do not realize you are sitting behind a computer screen just typing things too then I think lost minds is more of a relative concept.

Maybe the attitude some of you come in here with is the problem. You know that whole "you people do not deserve your freedom" "I hope I get to watch" "We are fighting for YOUR freedom" yadda yadda yadda nonsense?

How about I break into your neighbor's house and kill half the family. Then I set up shop there for a few years because I need to protect the living family members from each other. Had I not shown up in time, they would all be dead and it would have been an empty house, right? Then when you come outside and complain that I came and killed your neighbors for no reason, when I tell you to thank me for protecting you from the threat you never knew you had and I cannot really prove ever existed should I expect flowers or candy?

you dont know what you are talking about and you shouldnt assume you are right and someone else is wrong. you are not all knowing. i dont claim to have all the answers. your arrogance is getting the best of you boss

If we're to advance as a civilized species, we have to get beyond solving our differences with war. When you really think about it, war is a primitive, evil and childish way of solving our problems on this planet. People who support war are also pro-life which really is a ridiculous hypocrisy. Life is life, you can't select who should live and who should die. There's a lot more dire problems in this world that need to be solved rather than forcing our values and way of life onto other countries.

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae


If you would have quoted the other part of my post, what was quoted wouldn't be out of context. As I implied in my post, there are bad apples everywhere and to think that the US military would be free of them, is foolish at best. Furthermore, what the guy in the OP video was talking, is not what was pictured in that same video.

Sure, the wikileaks video presents some wrong doing, though that is not synonymous with the mission in Iraq. I don't agree with war or think that it is legal, however the vas majority of soldiers over there are doing the right thing. Where are the videos of soldiers using themselves as shields to protect children from sniper fire? Where are the videos of soldiers going out of their way to help children? Oh yeah, nobody wants to see those video, although this happens far more often than the deliberate targeting of innocent children.

Again, the wikileaks video and the picture painted by this lowely soldier show two different things. This guy was merely using the video to prep emotions for his exaggerated claims and falsely percieved reality from a limited viewpoint. The wikileaks video seems to have been used to play on people's emotions for the tale that would eventually be told by a guy who was not in the command and control structure of what lead to the gruesome event.

--airspoon

[edit on 14-8-2010 by airspoon]

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by Adevoc Satanae

 

If you would have quoted the other part of my post, what was quoted wouldn't be out of context. As I implied in my post, there are bad apples everywhere and to think that the US military would be free of them, is foolish at best. Furthermore, what the guy in the OP video was talking, is not what was pictured in that same video.

Sure, the wikileaks video presents some wrong doing, though that is not synonymous with the mission in Iraq. I don't agree with war or think that it is legal, however the vas majority of soldiers over there are doing the right thing. Where are the videos of soldiers using themselves as shields to protect children from sniper fire? Where are the videos of soldiers going out of their way to help children? Oh yeah, nobody wants to see those video, although this happens far more often than the deliberate targeting of innocent children.

Again, the wikileaks video and the picture painted by this lowely soldier show two different things. This guy was merely using the video to prep emotions for his exaggerated claims and falsely percieved reality from a limited viewpoint. The wikileaks video seems to have been used to play on people's emotions for the tale that would eventually be told by a guy who was not in the command and control structure of what lead to the gruesome event.

--airspoon

[edit on 14-8-2010 by airspoon]

thank you! couldnt have said it better.

Originally posted by DONNYxMC
i will reply to this once and for all with the only information i know. and then im done with you guys. i hope this answers your questions.

Why done? Do you not think this is an important story to tell?

it was august 2008, dont remember the exact day but i wanna say around the 23 or 24.

How often do you find a house with around 50 caged children held for rape and bombholders? Seems pretty memorable. Perhaps you have so many stories of such grue that they blend together? Then again, you did bring this one up so it must stick out; just not that much?

we were traveling from house to house in south east iraq on some street i cant even pronounce. it was around 730 or 8. pretty close to dark.

Sunset in August in Iraq falls between 6:45 and 6:50. By 7:30 or 8 would be dark.

Originally posted by WeRpeons

war is a primitive, evil and childish way of solving our problems on this planet.

War solves economies, not problems. War raises problems, I guess it is more correct like this.

reply to post by DONNYxMC


That has got to be one of the most shocking stories I have ever heard come out from Iraq aside from the abu ghraib scandal.

Did this get reported to any superiors?

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae



i have seen way worse things like my best friend blown in half. 6 years of total brutality and carnage and yea you tend to forget dates and times. and at about 730 or 8 its still twilight in iraq. not dark. but like i said "pretty clost to dark" snip



Mod Edit: Personal comments removed. Please see Terms and Conditions of Use section 2) Behaviour. Compound quote removed, REPLY TO function used. Please see ABOUT ATS: Warnings for excessive quoting, and how to quote. Thank you - Jak

[edit on 14/8/10 by JAK]

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by DONNYxMC

 

That has got to be one of the most shocking stories I have ever heard come out from Iraq aside from the abu ghraib scandal.

Did this get reported to any superiors?

this story and a child sex house we found got reported. i didnt see the "sex house" just the outside. but it was similar except lots of gold and marble and pallace type stuff. a good friend from 513th told me about it. they foudna house that children were kept in cages like we found. but used for sex games and orgies. yeah. saddams regime was evil. they would test chem agents on children. they would test demolitions on children. people dont care unless its on the news. it sickens me. i told reporters this story and got into so much trouble. and the reporters dont care. they only report on US troops killnig civilians... we have to be the bad guys it seems. there are things like this happening every day. this is nothing.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by DONNYxMC]

Just a quick reminder that Courtesy Is Mandatory, Civility & Decorum are Expected and perhaps the most effective advice of all go after the ball, not the player.

Jak

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by Adevoc Satanae

 

If you would have quoted the other part of my post, what was quoted wouldn't be out of context. As I implied in my post, there are bad apples everywhere and to think that the US military would be free of them, is foolish at best.

Funny because that is exactly what I responded to. I got it. You said there are good soldiers and good soldiers would not fire on innocent children. In my response I thought it was pretty clear that I understood you were saying that only bad soldiers would do such a thing. The problem is, we have bad soldiers and they are doing it. We can talk about them being a few in the bunch all we like but that does not make them cease to exist.

Furthermore, what the guy in the OP video was talking, is not what was pictured in that same video.

It is not? What apache blowing away a van with two kids in it was he talking about then?

Sure, the wikileaks video presents some wrong doing, though that is not synonymous with the mission in Iraq. I don't agree with war or think that it is legal, however the vas majority of soldiers over there are doing the right thing.

What? The war is illegal but the people carrying it out are doing the right thing? What right thing can you do in an illegal war aside from not partake?

Where are the videos of soldiers using themselves as shields to protect children from sniper fire?

You tell me.

Where are the videos of soldiers going out of their way to help children?

You tell me.

Oh yeah, nobody wants to see those video, although this happens far more often than the deliberate targeting of innocent children.

I would love to see those videos and they would add a much needed counterbalance to this thread. Please show them.

Again, the wikileaks video and the picture painted by this lowely soldier show two different things. This guy was merely using the video to prep emotions for his exaggerated claims and falsely percieved reality from a limited viewpoint.

Where are you on that tape?

The wikileaks video seems to have been used to play on people's emotions for the tale that would eventually be told by a guy who was not in the command and control structure of what lead to the gruesome event.

snip




Mod Edit: Thinly veiled personal comment removed. Please note the post directly above as our postings may have overlapped. Also see Terms and Conditions of Use section 2) Behaviour. Thank you - Jak

[edit on 14/8/10 by JAK]

reply to post by DONNYxMC


These are pretty serious allegations. From another of your posts you say that you are now based in Las Vegas. Have you retired from service now?

You told both stories to reporters - the 'sex house' and the basement which you went into and they weren't interested in the stories?

Assuming you're not in active service, would you go on record with these allegations?

Originally posted by DONNYxMC

saddams regime was evil. they would test chem agents on children. they would test demolitions on children. and the reporters dont care. they only report on US troops killnig civilians...

Yes, and you test mcdonalds food on your children, and wendy's, and kfc, and minutemaid "natural" juice. Different chemicals, I know, but the results are gruesome also. I mean, where do you come up with horse manure like that? DO YOU HAVE PROOF OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID? AND WITH WHAT CHEMICALS WERE CHILDREN TESTED WITH? Oh you... how do you call it? drama queen. Nice emphasyzing, though.