Biblical Deaths: How Many Did God Kill? How Many Did Satan Kill?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer




God didnt great us,or whenhe did God is an ET an alien and something went wrong or the experement still is ongoing...thats it......!!!


Peace,
e

Well, I see this from this kind of perspective: Think that in an emulation, you are trying to create the perfect world. When I mean perfect, I mean PERFECT, down to the nth degree. No sins, no pollution, no greed, etc. But then, things went wrong, and so wrong, that you can't really reverse the effects since the undo button could only take you back so many steps.

So, what would you do? God continued playing the game, trying to rectify the problem by removing unwanted elements, adding wanted elements, etc.

I would probably press the reset button already.

Originally posted by ekiusa
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

God didnt great us,or whenhe did God is an ET an alien and something went wrong or the experement still is ongoing...thats it......!!!


Peace,
e

Not only that but the big G created everything.
Everything makes sense, there is a higher force than all of us, than anything and we do not control it. We are like a bottle full with energy and it is apparent that this force has decided that it's times to give some equality. Glad god is a good guy, it is a guy, it's the positive, the father, it's the source, the provider. People picture it like an old guy because the source is the oldest, it can chose to manifest with anything but most of the time it stays out of what people do. It's the factory of the bottles closed down, in other words what you do with your energy is your business but if you get too greedy it will step in and equal things out.

reply to post by pepsi78


We're maturing as a species. It's time to let us have our own direction but remind man what is the right way. In time we will be just like him and that's the true union of God and man.

As some technology savy people have said, human hardware is flawed. So God will put the software on his hardware until the repairman comes.

reply to post by adjensen


There's a huge philosophical difference between "I create evil" and "I cause evil", wouldn't you say?

If I go out and make a gun and give it to you and you shoot and kill someone with that gun, you CAUSED the death but I CREATED the means for you to do it imo makes me just as responsible.
This thread is about the MILLIONS of people MOSTLY innocent that God has directly or indirectly murdered. Unfortunatly ALL of the Abrahamic religeous books are filled with stories of a supposedly all loving, caring, benevolent creator directly or indirectly killing people that won't do as they are told. Where is the ''free will'' in that? You can do want you want (free will) as long as its what I (God) wants - or I will KILL YOU. Sounds more like a dictator to me. A parent should love their child unconditionally.

reply to post by WENEEDAREVOLUTION


My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.
C.S. Lewis

www.proofthatgodexists.org...

The atheist can't find God for the same reason that a thief can't find a policeman.
Author Unknown

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

How is it a tangent? It is the topic of the thread.

The topic of the thread is biblical deaths, not biblical contradictions. We can go that route in another thread perhaps.

Back on topic, I have demonstrated quite clearly how innocent people were killed by the biblical god, contrary to your assertion otherwise.

Originally posted by Silencedfaith
So, what would you do? God continued playing the game, trying to rectify the problem by removing unwanted elements, adding wanted elements, etc.

I would probably press the reset button already.

Wasn't the great flood the godly equivalent of pressing the reset button? It doesn't seem to have worked out particularly favorably.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Glad god is a good guy, it is a guy, it's the positive, the father, it's the source, the provider.

It's evidenced by the topic alone that calling god "a good guy" is a bit of a dubious claim. Also, there seems to be a huge lack of apparent evidence that the biblical god even exists.

reply to post by slugger9787


C.S. Lewis really didn't have very good arguments for the proof of god. In fact, arguments can't prove the existence of deities. For that we need evidence. Tangible, testable evidence. There doesn't seem to be any anywhere.

Were all a mix of redish and bluish. Lemurian and Anunaki more or less, were all reptiles and human. Looking at the United States flag will provide an insight. Do we get wiped out again ? It's up to us if we are worth as a species.

But what was what in the begining what is blue and what is red, who is who and what is what. Lemurian blue Anunaki red. Mix them and we get what we are today, some pinkish mix of the skin.

Maybe the big G will spear us this time.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by WENEEDAREVOLUTION
If I go out and make a gun and give it to you and you shoot and kill someone with that gun, you CAUSED the death but I CREATED the means for you to do it imo makes me just as responsible.

No, if I create a gun and give it to you and TELL you to kill someone, that makes me responsible. If I create the gun and give it to you, with the suggestion that you go hunting with it, and you kill someone, I'm not responsible, legally or morally. You just made a bad decision.

God made the gun, gave it to you, and explicitly told you NOT to kill someone. How does that make him responsible when you do?

This thread is about the MILLIONS of people MOSTLY innocent that God has directly or indirectly murdered. Unfortunatly ALL of the Abrahamic religeous books are filled with stories of a supposedly all loving, caring, benevolent creator directly or indirectly killing people that won't do as they are told. Where is the ''free will'' in that? You can do want you want (free will) as long as its what I (God) wants - or I will KILL YOU. Sounds more like a dictator to me. A parent should love their child unconditionally.

Your reading of the Christian Bible is clearly much different than mine is, if you have read this thread all of the way through, you will see why. If you are an atheist, then you believe that God has killed no one, directly or not. The only people who need to find justification for any of those actions are those who find the Bible true and inerrant.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


No you haven't. You've demonstrated a lack of knowledge on history. It's well known that Israel at this point in time was barbarian-like and less than holy. They had a king. This very fact means they were going against God. The whole nation was rounded up over a bunch of war hungry nonsense. The whole era of having kings was God basically telling Israel to have it your way and pay the consequences.

Not only that, but as stated, you have no way of knowing they were innocent.

Genesis 20 flat out spells the whole issue out. God tells people how to stop being dumb. But people are dumb by nature. When people do dumb things and get killed, and God tells them they're going to get killed, God is not at fault. And they are hardly innocent for knowingly doing dumb things.

The lesson of the old testament is that humanity is retarded. And that God gave up, sent Jesus, and stopped talking to us like in the old testament.

The deaths caused by God are never innocent. Genesis says this. To think otherwise is to ignore the spelling out of it.

And as it has been stated, the fact is that at this point in time, there were no such thing as innocent people in the region. Everyone was hateful, war hungry blood thirsty savages. The sheer fact that anybody made it out alive is a miracle in and of itself.

You call God savage for telling people to kill other people, but in doing so contradict yourself in calling them innocent when they were all savages.

So do explain. If you call them demented fools for listening to a God you don't believe in, how could they be innocent to begin with in your eyes?

You have two choices. God exists and does not kill innocent people, or God does no exist and nobody was innocent, thereby contradicting your whole argument that God is evil.

So this is what the CiR public has been up to lately...figures.

First, I'm sure someone has explained to you by now that what you're discussing is referred to as physical death. So, to begin...

In Romans you'll find a passage that is well known..."For the wages of sin, is DEATH"

Now, the death described is indeed physical death. In Genesis you'll find confirmation of this. Sin is disobedience. Adam and Eve both disobeyed God and indeed, you'll later find that Adam perished(died).

So, we've established that death is the product of sin. Now, the apostole Paul says that no man is without sin, which is quite obvious. This fact establishes the other obvious fact that every man(woman) shall die.

Now, in Job1:21 you'll find that the Lord giveth and He also taketh away. This establishes that both life and death are from the Lord. Surely as my Father in Heaven, He is able to reward(life) and punish(death) His children. Does this make Him cruel? Does this make Him maniacal? Absolutely not. This establishes the fact that God is JUST.

Justice can be described as "the adminstering of deserved punishment or reward

In conclusion, if you can't do the time(eternity), don't do the crime(sin).

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


What about my get out of jail free card for good conduct?

(Jesus)

reply to post by Gorman91


Oh I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that.

You see, God the Father is the Judge and He says that you should be put to death. However, in walks Jesus and He says, "Well, hold on Father, they don't know what they're doing, forgive them and I shall pay their debt."

Did you know that this is actually still in practice in today's society(well not really since everyone is selfish, but it's still LAWFUL)? If I was sentenced to 30 years in prison, my mother for instance, or anyone else for that matter, could step in and serve those 30 years FOR me.

Hey look man, its totally okay to be a mass murdering sociopath as long as you happen to be GOD....for chrissakes you can't expect god to be a pipe smoking,peace lovin hippie can ya?


I mean if you were really really old then everything would pretty much get boring...except for killing of course, killing never gets boring

However I am glad you kept some score though , m sure the almighty would be most pleased with ya, which is after he carves out your cadaver in the most creative fashion sorta like that priest dude from the temple of doom




[edit on 23-8-2010 by Leonardo01]

Originally posted by Gorman91
Not only that, but as stated, you have no way of knowing they were innocent.

Wrong. I've demonstrated that they were. Here, I'll do it again:

In the case of the 70,000 that paid with their lives over the census that David took, all 70,000 were innocent of the "crime" of ticking god off - only David was guilty of that "crime". Therefore they were all innocent.

QED

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
Now, in Job1:21 you'll find that the Lord giveth and He also taketh away. This establishes that both life and death are from the Lord. Surely as my Father in Heaven, He is able to reward(life) and punish(death) His children. Does this make Him cruel? Does this make Him maniacal? Absolutely not. This establishes the fact that God is JUST.

Justice can be described as "the adminstering of deserved punishment or reward

In conclusion, if you can't do the time(eternity), don't do the crime(sin).

All living things are limited by natural lifespan. We don't die because of "sin", nor does any other living being.

The biblical god is indeed maniacal since we see exactly the reasons that he kills, the number of people he kills, the acts of barbarianism he instructs, etc. To call the biblical god "just" is dishonest.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
The biblical god is indeed maniacal since we see exactly the reasons that he kills, the number of people he kills, the acts of barbarianism he instructs, etc. To call the biblical god "just" is dishonest.

If I may make an observation here, your criticism has thus far been limited to the portrayal of God in the Old Testament. Rather than referring to him as "the biblical god", why don't you refer to him as "the Jewish god"? I know that most (well, all, I think) of the defence and justifications in the thread have been on the part of Christians, but isn't it more accurate to describe him in those terms? David was Jewish, not Christian, after all.

I suspect that many people avoid this because they are uncomfortable by appearing to be anti-semitic, an understandable avoidance, though it seems a bit disingenuous to be openly anti-Christian (or generally anti-religious) and yet nervous about attributing this particular God to the people that he associated with, the Jews.

It is unfortunate that we haven't seen a reply from a Jew, I would be very curious to see what they would have to say about your conclusions. I turned up this: www.tfdixie.com... which views it much differently, but it seems to hinge on an aspect of Judaism I'm not familiar with. But by coating these experiences with a Christian blanket, we may be looking for things, and finding answers, that are far off the mark, as these are Jewish people, their God, and their stories.