Biblical Deaths: How Many Did God Kill? How Many Did Satan Kill?

Really good thread OP ..the topic itself may have been done to death as a first comment states, but i cant recall any that have been put together in such a way as this one..star and flag certainly, and i never usually tell of doing either lol
Sadly, the Christians have been duped but they fail to see, realize or understand that due to clouded judgement and many due to complete indoctrination from a young age. Its a question i heard not long ago 'How many wars have been fought in the name of Satan'? which i find to be a relative point. Maybe they will come to realize what their 'god' truly is. a selfish, backstabbing, un trustworthy homicidal maniac with far too much power thats gone to his head.. if he exists at all of course. and in the case he does, i certainly can not find any reason to bow before him with any respect whatsoever.

reply to post by Baloney


Why would you possibly believe that you are entitled to an answer for a question you didn't ask, wouldn't understand if you did, and wouldn't reply in a mature manner to if such an answer was given?

Grow up and drop the bigotry, hostility and prejudice if you wish to engage in a meaningful dialogue.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by adjensen]

Originally posted by corruptedtesssa
Sadly, the Christians have been duped but they fail to see, realize or understand that due to clouded judgement and many due to complete indoctrination from a young age.

For some that is undoubtedly true. However, there are plenty more people who have a transcendental experience of some kind and cannot explain it in any other way than a concept of god. Since christianity is dominant in the west the first and often last place they look after the concept of god comes into play is the bible.

However, as we see in this thread, there are many who face the cognitive dissonance of worshiping a god that does kill millions. They fight with their own morality in justifying the actions of this god. It's interesting to see the justification as it says much about certain people.

reply to post by adjensen

I would avoid feeding the 13-year-old troll. Ignore it and it will go away.

Otherwise I've been enjoying reading this discussion. Carry on.

Thats the BEST you faithful can come up with??

It is not only I that want to hear your answers, but MANY others here who may LOSE their faith because of faithful folks like you being UNABLE TO PROVIDE ANY ANSWERS!!! What about them????

More EXCUSES, DIVERSIONS, and CHEAP SHOTS!!!

DO you all EVER run out of EXCUSES??

You BOTH could have just SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT on at LEAST ONE CONTRADICTION instead of coming up with another EXCUSE, DIVERSION, or CHEAP SHOT!!!

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Baloney]

Originally posted by Baloney
Thats the BEST you faithful can come up with??

In many ways I can sympathize with your position on things. I might say though that your method of discussion is probably not the most productive way to stimulate progressive discourse. You can proceed as you wish, however, though I doubt you'll receive the responses you're seeking for the questions you're asking.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

to carry on the memory of my name

He renounced his sons. Maybe you should read up on the character. He would do that.

He had three sons. None of whom carried on his name. They may have died, they may have been assassinated, they may have been renounced.

Right, I know, knit picking? Nope. Read the whole thing in context. Not little pieces.

I feel like I'm dealing with Fox news with you.

Abraham did the same thing. God tells Abraham to send his slave-born son on his way, and so Abraham say she has one son thereafter.

Like I said, you should probably study what you do not know.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by corruptedtesssa
Sadly, the Christians have been duped but they fail to see, realize or understand that due to clouded judgement and many due to complete indoctrination from a young age.

For some that is undoubtedly true. However, there are plenty more people who have a transcendental experience of some kind and cannot explain it in any other way than a concept of god. Since christianity is dominant in the west the first and often last place they look after the concept of god comes into play is the bible.

It depends, I suppose, on what one would consider to be a "young age" -- religion played no role at all in my life until I was about 12, and organized religion played no role for about 15 years in my 20s and 30s, and neither the original faith, nor the reason that I returned to the church was centred on a transcendental experience. It largely came from study, thought and being open to something beyond what I can see and feel.

That has been supplemented over the years with various events that confirm, for me, that my relationship is real, but I recognize (and value) that it is a subjective faith. Not an imaginary one, or a imposed one, but a faith that means a lot to me, and not much to anyone else.

reply to post by Gorman91


How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

Eighteen- 2 Kings 24:8
Eight- 2 Chronicles 36:9

Originally posted by adjensen
It largely came from study, thought and being open to something beyond what I can see and feel.

Couldn't that be referred to as "transcendental"? Did you have one of these experiences at any point? I believe I recall you describing something like this.

As far as study and thought go can you rule out that your belief in a god came from something more than your own reasoning?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
reply to post by Gorman91

 

How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

Eighteen- 2 Kings 24:8
Eight- 2 Chronicles 36:9

From: www.thebereans.net...
Those who read and understand how the kings of Judah and the kings of Israel deal with their royal family affairs (like in the line of successions) are aware that joint reigns are common to ensure seamless transitions especially when the king has more than one wife. Thus Jehoiachin was only eight years of age when he was made regent under the supervision of his mother (2 Kings 24:12; Jeremiah 13:11) for his father was already taken captive in Babylon. Then It was only at the 18th year when he reigned alone.

I couldn't resist.


[edit on 8/20/2010 by texastig]

Originally posted by texastig
From: www.thebereans.net...
Those who read and understand how the kings of Judah and the kings of Israel deal with their royal family affairs (like in the line of successions) are aware that joint reigns are common to ensure seamless transitions especially when the king has more than one wife. Thus Jehoiachin was only eight years of age when he was made regent under the supervision of his mother (2 Kings 24:12; Jeremiah 13:11) for his father was already taken captive in Babylon. Then It was only at the 18th year when he reigned alone.

I couldn't resist.

Great! You have an explanation...

...for the contradiction

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by adjensen
It largely came from study, thought and being open to something beyond what I can see and feel.

Couldn't that be referred to as "transcendental"? Did you have one of these experiences at any point? I believe I recall you describing something like this.

Meh, I might be viewing "transcendental" in a grander sense, as in visions, voices or things along those lines. Since my wife passed away, I've had a few experiences that border on that, but I recognize that my grief probably plays no small part of it, so I'm not hanging anything on them.

As far as study and thought go can you rule out that your belief in a god came from something more than your own reasoning?

Yes, I think that I can. My faith is based on, well, my faith, lol. Start over. My faith is based on those subjective experiences, and my inner self telling me that there is, indeed, more to reality than what we can see and feel, which is also subjective.

The study and thought is what brought me to Christianity, which is, of course, beyond the scope of this thread. And it's also what brought me to my abandoning fundamentalism and appreciating that we've spent a lot of time pushing God into a box that we like, while he's likely nothing of the sort. That's what seems right to me, and so long as something isn't in conflict with Christ's two commandments, I would find it hard to reject it on the grounds of conflicting with my faith.

There's a lot of subjectivity up there, which is probably why I'm not an evangelical. This is what I've come to, for reasons that are my own. If you wish to come to a different conclusion, so long as you've the same basic facts of Christianity, I've no issue at all with that, because it's up to you and God to sort things out between each other, not me.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by texastig
From: www.thebereans.net...
Those who read and understand how the kings of Judah and the kings of Israel deal with their royal family affairs (like in the line of successions) are aware that joint reigns are common to ensure seamless transitions especially when the king has more than one wife. Thus Jehoiachin was only eight years of age when he was made regent under the supervision of his mother (2 Kings 24:12; Jeremiah 13:11) for his father was already taken captive in Babylon. Then It was only at the 18th year when he reigned alone.

I couldn't resist.

Great! You have an explanation...

...for the contradiction

Though I'm not a fundamentalist, I will point out that even they do not accept the inerrancy in the Bible, when it is due to clear human error, as in this case, or in the previous one, where it was pointed out that there is a difference between KJV and NIV as to who killed Goliath (and, in that case, ironically, the NIV has the translation correct, with a footnote that this is most likely due to a transcription error in the source Hebrew text, while the KJV changes it to the correct story without note.)

Originally posted by adjensen
Since my wife passed away,

I'm extremely sorry to hear about this. You have my deepest sympathies, sir.

On a different note, I did issue you a sincere apology a few pages back.... not sure if you saw it.

Anyway, thanks for your response above.

Originally posted by adjensen

Though I'm not a fundamentalist, I will point out that even they do not accept the inerrancy in the Bible

There's the rub... some of them don't. And while the one's I've put forth so far aren't a huge deal it is simply to illustrate that there are some that actually exist.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


I must admit I agree.

It is significantly frustrating trying to get any answers, that sometimes it is rather easy to become tempted to resort to a somewhat aggressive and "creative" approach.

The subtle and more orderly fashion seems to reward no answers to my questions unfortunately.

My view on Religion would change in a MOMENTS NOTICE if I were to be shown by ANYTHING or ANYONE that I was in error on this topic. But to any seemingly intelligent and RATIONAL human being, a book of plagiarized stories, complete with contradictions everywhere within it, and absurdities throughout, tends to suggest that I am not in error with my views.

Without that book and the concept of "faith", there really is no more reality to it than any other imaginary character or super hero that we grew up admiring.

And when the faithful are unable to even defend this book of which seems to be the only real evidence of the belief system, I cannot help but feel certain in my view. But even with that, I will never stop researching everything and every point of view in regards to this.

I have always been drawn to the topic for some reason.



[edit on 20-8-2010 by Baloney]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by adjensen
Since my wife passed away,

I'm extremely sorry to hear about this. You have my deepest sympathies, sir.

On a different note, I did issue you a sincere apology a few pages back.... not sure if you saw it.

Anyway, thanks for your response above.

No worries, and thanks for the sympathies. I wrote up a piece about how grief can massively change your life, as it has done for me. If you've any interest, it's here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I did see the apology, which I was going to respond to, but it only came to one line, lol. Thank you for that as well, I really do appreciate hearing others' points of views, because it all works into that "study and thought" bit for me.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


But it's not a contradiction. My Bible, for one, does not have eight years old. And upon researching it I can see why.

His father became king, and 11 years later he became king. If his Birthday was in the right place, that WOULD make him set to be king by age 8. Making the contradiction nonexistent.

Right after in 2 ch 36:10, it talks about the events which occurred when he was 18, not 8. The events of 2 kings 24 could not be done by an 8 year old, I'm sorry to say.

And as it so nicely says in 2 kings 24:8, he began his reign at 18, meaning he was king before. Making sense considering his father did evil in the sight of the lord and God would consider his son the legitimate king. But then he too did evil in the sight of the lord and so was replaced.


Third time I'm asking. Research before you commit to a belief.



[edit on 20-8-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Baloney


AND, just because you and the others of the faith ARE UNABLE TO DISPUTE THOSE CONTRADICTIONS, THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE QUESTION to ask in this thread!!

I most certainly disagree with this statement, not only can they be answered, they ALL have been answered, the SAME Google you claimed to have used previously to locate these websites devoted to alleged contradictions is the exact same Google one could use to find point by point answers and apologetics for these alleged contradictions.

Not only are you being intellectually lazy, you're stomping your foot with an e-temper tantrum and demanding we derail this particular thread that you're losing the debate in miserably. You want to discuss these alleged contradictions? Fine, that can be done, but you'd better make a new thread for that topic in BTS if you expect anyone to take you up on it.