Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

We also have the photo-reconnaissance pictures of Auschwitz, which shows the lines of people entering the gas chambers

Gas Chambers: Arial Photo Surveillance of Auschwitz

And here are some far better pictures of Auschwitz - www1.yadvashem.org...
www1.yadvashem.org...

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

we even have the court statement of the commander of Auschwitz for crying out loud,

Sorry I have to take issue...

Testimony of Rudolph Hoess in the Nuremberg Trial

I commanded Auschwitz until 1 December 1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This?figure represents about 70 or 80 percent of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries; included among the executed and burned were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of prisoner-of-war cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmacht transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men. The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens, mostly Jewish, from Holland, France, Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944."

So if Hoess's testimony was so reliable WHY was the Plaque outside Auschwitz changed in 1989 to one stating about 1.5 million people perished there !!!

Because the first plaque referred to all victims. The second one referred to the number of jews who were murdered.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Well if that's what you think I suggest you look at the actual plaque..

Link Here.

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Well if that's what you think I suggest you look at the actual plaque..

Link Here.

My mistake, I was confusing it with something I read. If I recall correctly the first plaque was erected by the Soviets at a time when the rough numbers were very uncertain, and no real historian thought that the 4 million figure for Auschwitz was credible - it was only postulated by the museum and not the historians. It wasn't until the 1980's that serious attempts were made to work out the real figures. According to the Nizkor website:

"Deniers often use the 'Four Million Variant' as a stepping stone to leap from an apparent contradiction to the idea that the Holocaust was a hoax, again perpetrated by a conspiracy. They hope to discredit historians by making them seem inconsistent. If they can't keep their numbers straight, their reasoning goes, how can we say that their evidence for the Holocaust is credible? One must wonder which historians they speak of, as most have been remarkably consistent in their estimates of a million or so dead... Few (if any) historians ever believed the Museum's four million figure, having arrived at their own estimates independently. The museum's inflated figures were never part of the estimated five to six million Jews killed in the Holocaust, so there is no need to revise this figure."

I didn't realise so many skinheads were computer literate!

History may not have all the facts, but it always has the final answer..

This is just another disinformation thread.

Eisenhower had the death camps documented to collect as much proof, films and testimonies because "the day will come when some Sonf of a Bitch will say this never happened."

Today is Someday.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


A bit of a bait and switch there !

First you cite Rudolf Hoess testimony as proof of the 6 million jews killed, then when shown Hoess's testimony is fraudulent you change to another source that negates your original pov. But I don't mind, if that is how you wish your reality to be so be it.

For me, every year when I buy a poppy for remembrance day, I shall remember ALL of those that perished in the atrocity that was the 2nd world war and not just the few.

I neither have an agenda nor do I want to be part of someone else's....So good day

Originally posted by Nite_wing
This is just another disinformation thread.

Eisenhower had the death camps documented to collect as much proof, films and testimonies because "the day will come when some Sonf of a Bitch will say this never happened."

Today is Someday.

Indeed and no doubt all those victims who survived to tell the tale and their families were either delusional or out of work actors. These 'sons of bitches' are the lowest of the low. I wouldn't wipe my foot on one. But tell you what - I hope one day that all the naysayers get rounded up and subjected to the same. Then when they try to tell their story I'll simply laugh and say 'Surely it isn't so'. That would be the ultimate karma.

whether the numbers are inflated or not, it #in happened. let's move on. focus your energy on preventing # like this from happening here in the us.

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

A bit of a bait and switch there !

First you cite Rudolf Hoess testimony as proof of the 6 million jews killed, then when shown Hoess's testimony is fraudulent you change to another source that negates your original pov. But I don't mind, if that is how you wish your reality to be so be it.

For me, every year when I buy a poppy for remembrance day, I shall remember ALL of those that perished in the atrocity that was the 2nd world war and not just the few.

I neither have an agenda nor do I want to be part of someone else's....So good day

????? When did I cite Hoess???

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

A bit of a bait and switch there !

First you cite Rudolf Hoess testimony as proof of the 6 million jews killed, then when shown Hoess's testimony is fraudulent you change to another source that negates your original pov. But I don't mind, if that is how you wish your reality to be so be it.

For me, every year when I buy a poppy for remembrance day, I shall remember ALL of those that perished in the atrocity that was the 2nd world war and not just the few.

I neither have an agenda nor do I want to be part of someone else's....So good day

????? When did I cite Hoess???

No you are right you didn't cite Hoess, But you did jump in to the defence of MRXYZ who's post did, and therefore taking his line of thinking and carrying on his debate on said subject.

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Well if that's what you think I suggest you look at the actual plaque..

Link Here.

Historians never believed in the number quoted by the commander. They destroyed the records, and the plaque was put up by the museum who inflated the number....but as I said, historians always questioned that number. The 1-1.5m number was only developed because they went over deportation logs (which weren't destroyed).

By the way, if you had bothered to do 5min of research, you'd know that

Oh, and the 6m figure comes from an analysis of deportation logs, the few kill logs that weren't destroyed, and missing person reports. If you KNOW someone got thrown into one of those camps, and that's the last logs you have of their whereabouts, it's sane to assume they died in that camp.

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Well if that's what you think I suggest you look at the actual plaque..

Link Here.

Historians never believed in the number quoted by the commander. They destroyed the records, and the plaque was put up by the museum who inflated the number....but as I said, historians always questioned that number. The 1-1.5m number was only developed because they went over deportation logs (which weren't destroyed).

By the way, if you had bothered to do 5min of research, you'd know that

Oh, and the 6m figure comes from an analysis of deportation logs, the few kill logs that weren't destroyed, and missing person reports. If you KNOW someone got thrown into one of those camps, and that's the last logs you have of their whereabouts, it's sane to assume they died in that camp.

edit on 15-12-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

Bait and switch

Hell, we even have the court statement of the commander of Auschwitz for crying out loud,

reply to post by ken10


My statement referred to Jews being gassed to death...which happened. The other guy was questioning gassing of Jews.

And are we really talking about whether 1.5m or more died? How on earth is that a conspiracy, either way, it's god awful either way

6,00,000 man lie

reply to post by filosophia


I'm not a denier, it may very well have happened exactly how it's said it happened. I'm not even in my 30's yet so there's no way I was there personally so I have nothing to go by except for what I've read (I've read a lot going both ways.) But what makes me suspicious is that when a supposed truth is protected by laws that can place you in jail for a significant time when you discuss it in a negative light, well that just sounds to me that someone has something to hide.

Not saying that's the case, it may very well be another (idiotic) reason for the jail time, but nothing else is so protected as the Holocaust. Even discussing it in general is usually frowned upon. There's no counter argument at all regarding the Holocaust. It's all "Their way or no way".

But I digress, I wasn't there, I don't know what happened. But I feel that freedom to discuss it should be protected. If I say, "I believe the Holocaust is a lie", I shouldn't be placed in jail. I should be presented with counter arguments that shows me my error.

reply to post by Frontkjemper


and now israel is trying to make references to the nazis a crime, when will they learn that when you ban something it becomes more popular.

Zyklon-B is prussic acid crystals, a deadly poison, originaly used in rat poison, it turns to a heavy gas when water is poured over it,so it flows downwards. I believe it was manufactured by I.G. Faben.

reply to post by filosophia


I had a relative who was in one of these camps.He was not
a prisoner,he was one of the liberators.People who deny the
holocaust will have to wait until ALL who remember it have
passed away.Then you can rewrite history in order to absolve
yourselves from any involvement.

I would have liked a warning about the language in the video.
I don't use words like bs! I stopped watching after hearing this.

Originally posted by Johnthewitness
6,00,000 man lie

What a fascinating - and appalling - statement. Care to back it up with any facts at all?