Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by filosophia

 

Nobody said it was "immediately" off the train, or even that "everyone" was gassed.

But many certainly were.

Actually they did say it was immediate gassing off the train, after a quick haircut of course, watch the videos in my opening post.

OP Wait!!!

I see where you got confused. It's the ATS motto?

Yeah. It's DENY IGNORANCE!!! Not WALLOW in it!

Hope this helps.

reply to post by filosophia


Why the hell should anyone trust anything from a site called holocaustdenialvideos.com?

That's like looking for evolution information on a site called godcreatedusinhisimage.com...

Originally posted by Chamberf=6


reply to post by filosophia

 

Why the hell should anyone trust anything from a site called holocaustdenialvideos.com?

That's like looking for evolution information on a site called godcreatedusinhisimage.com...

edit on 12/14/2011 by Chamberf=6 because: (no reason given)

Well let's think about it, if you were interested in holocaust denial, you wouldn't go to a website called theholocausthappened.com now would you? I base truth off logic and reason, not whether or not you think a website is legitimate or not.

Originally posted by angeldoll
OP Wait!!!

I see where you got confused. It's the ATS motto?

Yeah. It's DENY IGNORANCE!!! Not WALLOW in it!

Hope this helps.

Well you may think I am wallowing in ignorance but I may think you are doing the same, so why not try and enlighten each other rather than ridicule.

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by Chamberf=6


reply to post by filosophia

 

Why the hell should anyone trust anything from a site called holocaustdenialvideos.com?

That's like looking for evolution information on a site called godcreatedusinhisimage.com...

edit on 12/14/2011 by Chamberf=6 because: (no reason given)

Well let's think about it, if you were interested in holocaust denial, you wouldn't go to a website called theholocausthappened.com now would you? I base truth off logic and reason, not whether or not you think a website is legitimate or not.

edit on 14-12-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

And all that after making fun of Wikipedia

Comedy gold...

reply to post by MrXYZ


I'm still waiting for you to explain to me why your picture proves the holocaust happened when emaciated bodies are usually more of a sign of disease specifically typhus.

reply to post by MrXYZ


yes it is funny that wikipedia is not a legitimate website because it is not logical to depend on an open internet forum for specific knowledge, I use wiki only for an overview, it is mostly slanted towards the "official" version of history because it is so easy to edit out any pesky conspiracy theories.

I could never disbelieve in the holocaust of the jews under the nazi regime.
I could dispute the total numbers
I could dispute the methods of killing

But Genocide is Genocide.....period. The nazi's were hard core bad guys, no way about it.

In learning some other history about the atrocities of war, I have come to wonder why the holocaust is considered a crime against the Jews, when more than triple the amount of Russians were killed 20mil vs. 6mil

in the pacific theater, it would have been an asian holocaust with nearly 30 million people killed by the Japanese

or even the treatment of Native American Indians with their populations decimated, millions again.

there's something about the treatment of the word "holocaust" that is being deliberately misleading and separatist, in that as i stated before Genocide is Genocide, doesn't matter what group gets murdered doesn't matter which regime does the killing. It's all terrible F!!king BS that needs to stop. And any one particular group that feels that their tragedy is greater than the tragedy of their neighbor when it's the same crime or terror, diminishes in some way the apalling and unacceptable nature of the crimes comitted against themselves and perhaps even opens the door for such crimes to happen to others in the future.

There was a most offensive quote i heard in the movie The Debt, whereby a nazi who fled prosecution is trying to anger his captors who caught him and says" Why is it that in a camp of ten thousand Jews and 200 guards, did no one stand up to fight? They just let themselves be killed.That's all Jews are good for is dying."

to prevent any future genocide and stop the ongoing genocides, let the movie quote sink in and infuriate you. Then look at the term Holocaust and really ponder this. Genocide could be any group dying in mass numbers,by way of murder or execution or starvation or gassing or infected blankets, systematic or not..... The Holocaust is "just the Jews" being murdered enmasse. To differentiate between any genocides as more or less bad, is to accomodate in some small way that one form of genocide is okay. IMHO

I hereby procalim that Genocide is unjust and wrong and intolerable on all levels to any group or groups and disavow "The Holocaust" as sh!tty terminology and a mechanism of association whereby when people think of mass deaths they think it happens to other people and it can't happen to them :and simply reiterate my point that murder and genocide are holocausts at diferent scales. Who's tears of pain soak into the ground faster when their families are murdered....Chinese tears, Jewish tears, Russian tears, Cambodian tears?

Be clear that I am only denying the terminology of the murders of the Jews by the nazis ,not denying that such murders took place.

reply to post by Chamberf=6


And no one is telling you you have to trust any website. You are suppossed to trust your own powers of reasoning and not an authoritative voice (i.e., the holocaust happened, if you think otherwise you are racist)

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

yes it is funny that wikipedia is not a legitimate website because it is not logical to depend on an open internet forum for specific knowledge, I use wiki only for an overview, it is mostly slanted towards the "official" version of history because it is so easy to edit out any pesky conspiracy theories.

Again...Wikipedia generally sources its information from reliable sources. And that includes scientific books.

People have already provided tons of links and information that show what garbage the claim the gas chambers didn't exist is. Hell, we even have the court statement of the commander of Auschwitz for crying out loud, and witness reports, and soldiers confessing.

There's no rational explanation why they would confess to something like that, it meant a death sentence in a lot of cases.

I'm still waiting for you to explain to me why your picture proves the holocaust happened when emaciated bodies are usually more of a sign of disease specifically typhus.

I posted the picture because you called the holocaust "propaganda" FUNNY

...which was beyond tasteless by the way. Oh, and I'm not calling holocaust deniers racist (although some probably are), I just think they're incredibly uneducated when it comes to history.

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Right, but did he see gas chambers? You mention starvation, which is what really killed the majority of prisoners, not gas chambers. Did your grandfather see gas chambers or just starvation, there is a big difference, not to downpkay starvation but we are talking about factual reference of gas chambers.

No, he saw Bergen-Belsen. There were no gas chambers at that place. He saw people who had been starved and deprived of proper medical help and generally written off as untermenschen by the German authorities. You are failing to see my point. A government that could allow people to undergo such things because they were deemed to be subhuman would also therefore allow them to be exterminated. The collapse of the Eastern Front and the loss of the extermination camps prevented that happening. So starvation was just another tool.

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

I'm still waiting for you to explain to me why your picture proves the holocaust happened when emaciated bodies are usually more of a sign of disease specifically typhus.

Contrary to your black/white mentality, not every jew was shipped out to be exterminated. Many were shipped out to the concentration camps that were near the factories like at Auschwitz-Birkenau, to work on the assembly lines. They were often fed very poor rations because according to the scum running the system hey, they were just jews, so who cared?

reply to post by balanc3


Hello and thank you for your reply, I too am not denying that some jews were killed by the nazis perhaps even millions, but my goal is to show that the holocaust causes real genocides. Since you mentioned genocide is genocide, and I agree, I ask everyone to think of how many wars have been caused where the holocaust was used as an emotional edge. Iraq, where saddam was referenced to like a hitler. Currently, Iran is being pegged with trying to "wipe israel off the map." Palestinians are murdered because it is referenced that they are terrorists who want a second holocaust of the jews. There is a war against speech in many countries to outlaw holocaust revisionism in all its forms. What would people think if the first amendment was amended to eliminate historical investigation? Let's not forget that every military in the world operates on a top down dictatorship, just like hitlers, and just like his war machine the american military industrial complex is making trillions more and lasting much longer than hitler's war machine, and for what purpose? Other than placing americans in internment camps? The ability to police the world, invade libya and syria for humanitarian reasons and use superior force to take out their force, so in other words militarism, the very thing we loathed hitler over. And with the holocaust motto "never forgive never forget" it's safe to say this will be propaganda for every major war because otherwise a second holocaust may happen.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Okay, and that could have happened, but I can only believe that by denying certain facts which you suggest is wrong to deny facts. But if I denied the fact that there was no zyklon b residue in the gas chambers, and that the photographic evidence points to starvation and not gassing, and the logistics of gassing 6 million people, burying them, unburying them, in only a few years time is unrealistic, then sure I could believe that some were gassed, and sone were workers. But 6 million gassed? Let me ask you, how many out of the six million do you think were gassed?

reply to post by filosophia

You are suppossed to trust your own powers of reasoning and not an authoritative voice

I do.

That's what is screaming at me that you are incorrect.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Right, but did he see gas chambers? You mention starvation, which is what really killed the majority of prisoners, not gas chambers. Did your grandfather see gas chambers or just starvation, there is a big difference, not to downpkay starvation but we are talking about factual reference of gas chambers.

No, he saw Bergen-Belsen. There were no gas chambers at that place. He saw people who had been starved and deprived of proper medical help and generally written off as untermenschen by the German authorities. You are failing to see my point. A government that could allow people to undergo such things because they were deemed to be subhuman would also therefore allow them to be exterminated. The collapse of the Eastern Front and the loss of the extermination camps prevented that happening. So starvation was just another tool.

Okay what your grandfather saw was horrific and I would not wish that upon anyone, byt you have to admit, just for the sake of prudence, that his eye witness experience neither affirms nor denies any gassings and thus is irrelevant to the holocaust as such. Now world war 2 he is/was most likely more of an expert than I could ever be

reply to post by filosophia

There is a war against speech in many countries to outlaw holocaust revisionism in all its forms.

Of course there are, why would you wanna dumb down the people with nonsense? How on earth do other genocides (which by the way also happened before WW2) somehow mean the holocaust is suddenly a myth?

This entire thread makes zero sense

Are you blaming other genocides on WW2? Newsflash, Iraq was done because of oil and to please the defence contractors who bought sock puppet politicians. Other genocides happen for various reason, power, money, greed, insanity, and the list goes on.

Not one of those guys committing genocides goes "oh yeah, Hitler...his genocide was brilliant, I'll try that too". They do it for money and power mostly.

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by filosophia

 

You are suppossed to trust your own powers of reasoning and not an authoritative voice

I do.

That's what is screaming at me that you are incorrect.

Life is more than a test of right and wrong. So what if I am incorrect, does that change your mind? Does it somehow make the holocaust worse? For you maybe but the victims? How is that logically possible? Now what if you were incorrect? I can hypothesize contrary to what I believe, can you?

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Okay, and that could have happened, but I can only believe that by denying certain facts which you suggest is wrong to deny facts. But if I denied the fact that there was no zyklon b residue in the gas chambers, and that the photographic evidence points to starvation and not gassing, and the logistics of gassing 6 million people, burying them, unburying them, in only a few years time is unrealistic, then sure I could believe that some were gassed, and sone were workers. But 6 million gassed? Let me ask you, how many out of the six million do you think were gassed?

The exact number of those killed by the nazis is unknown - all we have are estimates, one of which is circa 6 million. However I want to make an important point - no-one has ever claimed that 6 million were gassed to death. They weren't. The einsatzgruppen killed at least 1.5 million in the East by shooting them. We also have the photo-reconnaissance pictures of Auschwitz, which shows the lines of people entering the gas chambers - after which the bodies were burned to ashes and disposed of. The proof is there. It's always been there.