Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by NichirasuKenshin

 

The nizkor link is nothing but a hypothetic response to whether or not it is possible to commit mass gas murder. Which the videos in my link says yes, through a simple machine that produces carbon monoxide and nothing else is really needed, however the holocaust stories talk about hauling Russian U-boats and submarines in order to pump in diesel gas. And while I give you that Zyklon-B has cyanide in it, there is residue still visible in the disenfectant rooms of the camp, and not in the gas chambers. So theory aside, the forensic evidence point to Zyklon-B being used as a disenfectant.

www.codoh.com...

The article you quote describes Dachau.

Dachau was a primarily political camp north of Munich. It was certainly not used to the extent that the Polish Death Camps were used in the perpetration of the Holocaust.

Anti-semitic fervour aside, the German High Command was fully aware that open commission of mass-murder would have been unacceptable to the majority of the population, hence why the 'large' death camps were all in remote parts of Poland, far away from prying German eyes...

Your article may describe the use of Zyklon-B at Dachau, but it does nothing to analyse the use of such materials at Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka, Sobibor, Majdanek, etc.

Originally posted by brutalsun
You want to know the truth? Buy a plane ticket and visit the camps. I lived in Germany for a few years and managed to visit the main camps... Auschwitz, Buchenwald and Dachau. You will no longer have doubts. The Crematorium is sobering and the statute in front of the main entrance of Dachau will bring you to tears. It is silent when shuffling the dormitories.

That's exactly what David Cole in Auschwitz video did. How does visiting an "reconstruction" help anybody learn the truth other than the "gas chambers" have been tampered with after the war? Do you visit the olympic size swimming pool there as well?
I posted a study on the viability of mass cremations at the camps a page or two back, have you read it? It goes into incredible detail and uses the records the NAZIs kept at the camps, and yes they kept very good records of everything, even deaths at the camps.

Originally posted by Demetre
reply to post by Kram09

 

Sorry, that sentence does leave a lot to be desired.. This article says that before they had ventilation units the doors had to be opened to 'air out', wouldnt that kill any germans. Too many discrepancies for me to believe everything happened th way they say???
www.scrapbookpages.com...

I've held my tongue for a while now, but your stupidity is beginning to annoy me. If you would please go and do some research about the operation of Gas Chambers at Death Camps you would be well aware that, after the gassing of the prisoners in the chamber, ventilation doors/windows/ports would be opened for a period of time to allow the gas to disperse; after this point in time, the Sonderkommando would be sent in to remove the bodies and then salvage from them whatever could be used.

You are entitled to your opinion concerning the holocaust (despite the literal wall of historical evidence against your opinion), but for the sake of the rest of us, please at least use some common sense and do some research before you go scrutinising irrelevant minutiae - irrelevant facts which you are also misinformed about.

reply to post by Jedite


It's not about numbers it's about facts.

If one of the facts is shown to be exagerated then it makes one wonder what other facts have been exagerated as well.

Since when did questioning equate to hatred ?

And since when did having an opinion become an offence.

What pisses me off is you can have Christians, Muslims, etc claiming that gays are inherently evil and deserve to die. Yet you cannot question anything about the holocaust or have an opinion on it.

Most people here aren't saying that it didn't happen, they're merely questioning what did happen.

Questioning is not denial or hatred, those throwing out the labels seem to be the ones full of anger & hatred & a narrow minded denial that anything else can't be possible, no matter what is shown to them.

It's a perfect example of indoctrination and conditioning

reply to post by Tiger5


4: when your enemy speaks the truth, you will not be able to recognize it as such.

I understand your need to confirm our past atrocities.

Yes, you are a fine person until proven otherwise and you are very welcomed.

I understand that perhaps the word holocaust was given a new meaning and that it should not apply to only the uhm for you I will call it a "jewish holocaust" and that all media is a monopoloy all controlled by the elite.... hmmm and since many of them TRULY claim to be Jewish that they purposely remind us of the "jewish holocaust" specifically and do more then ignore things such as the Holodomor.

They also do not like to ponder long about the Native american Holocaust, that is how I see it anyways yet of course they came around to the fact that it reinforces self hate so they are now progressively embracing it. You bad bad white people!!!

The self hating jew wasnt born self hating think about it

Stalin? you think Stalin was the pencil pusher setting grain quotas do you???

I laugh with you

Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by zcflint05

 

Yeah, I've always envisioned that there is a very special place in hell for Deniers. Even lower than defense lawyers, who know their client did the crime, but enjoy the challenge.

Noone is guilty until proven so by a court of law; just because someone is accused, no matter how suspicious the facts and scenario, does not mean that person is immediately a "guilty" person.

You'll change your tune soon enough should you ever be in front of a judge - you'll be screaming for the best defense lawyer in town.

Originally posted by mazzroth
Where are the stories from the Holocaust of mass break outs and riots ? I know for a fact if I saw my mother and sister going into a gas chamber I would not sit around and go quietly into the night.

Surely if there were 6 million that would constitute a possible army of 1 million fit and able Jewish men ? 1 million would be enough to over run any German camp and retake your women and children back if horrific things were happenign to them.

To sit back and watch 6 million of my countrymen die and not fight back would indicate something to you wouldn't it ? I ask you this...if you looked at me whilst I walked to my death and turned away, did nothing, knew that was your fate, still did nothing then what kind of person are you ? no I don't think people enmasse would do this.

I think there were no mass insurrections because the camps were in fact detention camps for the homeless and displaced. I think some 100's of thousands did perish no doubt but due to dysentery and diseases. The Germans were guilty of neglect and not caring for these peoples and for this they deserved to be punished I have no doubt, but don't lie to me about crap that is so easily dismissed as fabrication.

Fabrication = testimony of people at the Nuremberg trials were it was claimed a Nazi Guard ripped a child in half, you try that with even a cat and you will see its lies. The simple fact why would you use Zyklon B to kill people when it was designed to kill fleas and when a simple piping of a trucks exhaust into the chamber would of been much cheaper and easier to accomplish the alleged mass death.

No sir I think something is wrong with the fact we cannot even debate this without being thrown in jail in certain countries, I ask you to consider that the facts are not as the main stream portrays to us and to forget your alignments and racial alliances and consider for a minute other lies we have been told about history. Then you will conclude as I have, trust only that which you see with your own eyes and suspect everything that has a Country attached to it.

Have you ever tried ripping a cat in half? I don't understand the point in using such analogies if you have not tried it yourself or if you are aware that noone is actually going to go out and do it.

People are surprised/shocked by stories of such violence or refuse to believe it because, by and large, most people are not actually exposed to any real degree of violence in their lifetimes. I can't comment on whether or not such a thing is anatomically possible, but the point remains that you can't go saying people are liars despite the fact you cannot actually test and or prove/disprove what they are saying.

Furthermore, the fundamental flaw in your whole argument is that the vast majority of jews were initially entirely clueless as to what was actually happening in the camps; the barbarity of the Nazi occupation forces aside, they had no reason to think that the 'resettlement' story was not genuine, as it was an eminent feature of Nazi propaganda and an official policy for years.

Also, the jews in Warsaw did actually stage an uprising - in response to which, the SS completely levelled the Warsaw ghetto, more or less arbitrarily killing anyone they found. It is all very well and easy to say "do you really think they would just stand still and let this happen?!" - honestly, I would say it is really not that unbelievable. I have never experienced it, but I imagine the idea of rebelling against heavily armed soldiers who you have seen to have no qualm in indiscriminately killing your neighbours and kin is made rather impossible by what I suspect is paralyzing fear of injury and death.

And again, there was never going to be any six-million man march because there was never any such concentration of jews in one place; the death camps were the end of the line for raillines across Europe.

Originally posted by brutalsun
You want to know the truth? Buy a plane ticket and visit the camps. I lived in Germany for a few years and managed to visit the main camps... Auschwitz, Buchenwald and Dachau. You will no longer have doubts. The Crematorium is sobering and the statute in front of the main entrance of Dachau will bring you to tears. It is silent when shuffling the dormitories.

yeah yeah and if you do not like america then go somewheres else yadda yadda

death is everywhere even in places where it is not worshipped as a reminder of how bad we can be when properly motivated.

I have spoke with some germans and they have testified to how they are educated in self hate and now that I am able to contemplate the entire scope of this fraud I can now understand completely why this is.

It is not so future genocides will never happen again as Genocide is ongoing in the CONGO, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, LEBANON without a wimper from the same people who promote the study of the "holocaust" ad nauseum.

Not a F****** peep but maybe a "go our troops!" as they are spineless and totally dependent on other spineless entities for their current up right position.

Oh everything is very relevant, relative and completely intertwined indeed.

Originally posted by Helmkat
My Grandmere is 91 so she can't reply to this thread in person but I will relate her stories to you. She was in occupied France.


-She saw the Jews being rounded up and taken away, she saw them throwing notes and letters, pleading with anyone to contact friends and relatives for them.

-She has one of the star of David patches the Jews were forced to wear.

-Her brother was taken away by the Germans to work in a labor camp. He escaped and upon doing so the Germans showed up at her home to beat her father (my great grandfather) in hopes he would reveal the location of his son. He didn't know anything but that didn't stop the beatings. My Grandmeres brother had joined the underground and didn't return home until the Germans left.

-One one occasion my Grandmere and a friend were forced to shine shoes all night at the local SS office because a German officer thought they had refered to him as "ugly".

While none of this is "proof" per se, I have no doubt that a great evil was brought upon the Jewish people. So deny all you like if it lets you sleep better.

Oh not that it matters but I'm not Jewish.

While I don't deny the persecutions against the Jews as your grandmother pointed out, but did you notice that her stories never involved gas chambers? That's the only part people deny, not the entire Holocaust, that is a false assumption to make people look like extreme deniers.

The problem I have with the Holocaust is Jews capitalizing on it and lay claim they have exclusive rights to the subject. Using the word anti-semite, and the Holocaust denial accusations is getting old and no longer has merrit

Many cultures have experienced Holocausts and discrimination..So quit thinking you all have a copyright on the subject because you don't.

Hell they got me feeling so uncomfortable I cant say the word JEW without feeling discriminatory about it. I can't even call an African American male a black dude anymore either.

On that note, don't call me Caucasion or White guy any longer. Everyone will be called HUMAN from here on out..
HUMAN---
like our rulers call us.

Originally posted by The Cap de Pepene
reply to post by die_another_day

 

I think Holocaust denial is unnecessary.

It's easy to see that things like the Holocaust has happened many times in the past.

In fact, the Japanese killings of Asians during WWII resulted in 20-30 million deaths and half a century of technological setbacks.


It happened, but you know what? People shouldn't take advantage of it. If the Jews really hate the Germans, they would throw nukes at Germany.

Yeah, might as well...
They've already showed so much propaganda down their throats that pretty much every German hates himself...
Yeah, I think it's time they put the Germans out of their misery, just like Einstein once suggested...

Do you guys live in Europe? Nazism is a ghost from Germany's past (keep in mind it is not in fact the same Country...quite literally...) towards which most Germans feel absolutely no relation whatsoever. They are fully aware of the Regime's violence, but I think you'll find most Germans get very pissed off with people for labelling them Nazis despite the fact that the whole era is not far from passing out of living memory; as far as they are concerned, it is an ugly past but a past with which most Germans born post-1945 have absolutely no relation whatsoever. They certainly don't hate themselves because of it. Most people seldom even talk about National Socialist History.

reply to post by Discotech


Very good observation yet sadly it has to be said and is not otherwise obvious.

The fact that it is illegal to even discuss in some countries should serve as a giant alarm going off inside any conspiracy theory orientated contemplative mind.

Yes, absolutely conditioning/indoctrination.

Who are these people huh? I mean, I have a hard time believing that we have reached this level of idiocracy and that these people are not instead simply AGENTS...

Originally posted by duality90

Originally posted by Demetre
reply to post by Kram09

 

Sorry, that sentence does leave a lot to be desired.. This article says that before they had ventilation units the doors had to be opened to 'air out', wouldnt that kill any germans. Too many discrepancies for me to believe everything happened th way they say???
www.scrapbookpages.com...

I've held my tongue for a while now, but your stupidity is beginning to annoy me. If you would please go and do some research about the operation of Gas Chambers at Death Camps you would be well aware that, after the gassing of the prisoners in the chamber, ventilation doors/windows/ports would be opened for a period of time to allow the gas to disperse; after this point in time, the Sonderkommando would be sent in to remove the bodies and then salvage from them whatever could be used.

You are entitled to your opinion concerning the holocaust (despite the literal wall of historical evidence against your opinion), but for the sake of the rest of us, please at least use some common sense and do some research before you go scrutinising irrelevant minutiae - irrelevant facts which you are also misinformed about.

Your statement "The Sonderkommando would be sent in to remove bodies then salvage from them whatever could be used"

contradicts the part of the story that says the prisoners thought they were taking a shower, and so they would have been naked, and thus nothing to rummage through. That, by the way, is an exaggeration, the real reason they stockpiled the clothing and hair was to battle typhus, and not to sell the articles. If they were planning on selling the articles, why are they still stockpiled? Wouldn't it be necessary to sell as much as possible to keep the war machine running?

Originally posted by Puck 22
reply to post by stars15k

 

All good, valid, points. But none deals with the question of, if this was done to jews, gypsies, homosexuals, Christians, etc. then how did it become a JEWISH holocaust?

I see what you mean. I agree that it is unfair to others who have suffered under the barbarity of other nations (particularly China under the Japanese), but I expect the straightforward and simple answer is that the people who were most affected by the Holocaust were the jews; they were killed in significantly greater numbers than the other minorities who were also murdered, and also probably because it is not merely the Holocaust which is remembered but also the period of history preceding it wherein Jews (and also other minorities - although for fairly obvious reasons, these minorities were able to pass under the radar easily. I do not think that there is anything particularly obvious in discerning between a gay man who is keeping his sexuality a secret and a hetersexual male) were systematically excised from society by removing their legal rights as citizens.

I dont think the numbers are exagerated, 5.5 million people were kill in all those camps 12 years for five and half million people to dissapear isnt really a streach. Germans were pretty efficent even in the death department they had an assembly line of doom. Ash got repurposed eather as fertilizer, shoveled away into rivers and marshes or mixed back into food for their prisoners. Hitler was a genius, sadly he could of probably done so much good instead of all this evil. The only thing I think is exagerated is the fact Hitler just didn't pick on the Jewish population, anyone that was differnt, hell he had a euthanasia program for the elderly and the sick or those who couldn't carry the burden.

There is proof upon proof, even from the Nazi's themselves they were really meticulous in their records, even some of the S.S. That got lighter sentences scoffed at the people who say in never happend or wasnt as bad. They couldn't belive or understand why others were saying this.

But like I said, if you try and convince someone who's mind if already made up it isnt going to work, any proof, facts, evidince you bring up that person is going to shoot down.

reply to post by superluminal11


Will Stupid Human suffice? Joking...

The truth is that Anti semitism meant hatred of Arabic/middle eastern peoples and was subverted to its current definition by the same elite who now wish to hide behind it as the majority claim to be jews.

Never has the saying "whom controls the past controls the present controls the future" held such signifigance as it does in todays world when the words of a book can be altered in a millisecond for masses of people with a simple "DOWNLOAD LATEST UPDATES?".

Originally posted by billyjack
Really not posting to argue the validity of the Holocaust, but I do continually wonder why all of the other victims of the camps are ignored.

First, Germany attacking Jews was not original. It was a popular spectator sport in eastern Europe for a 1000 years before Hitler. Got the plague get rid of the jews, crops failed get rid of jews. Nothing original by the Germans. The Jews were complicit in the succuess of the Bolshevik revolution(note how history doesn't mention the Jewish purge from the communist party after Lenin gained power). So along with history,the Red scare and their actions against the German people in the Weimar years it wasn't hard to make Jews into scapegoats.

For the record as stated previously. The Japs killed at least 10,000,000 Chinese and others, Stalin murdered at least 30,000,000 in Russia, Mao killed at least 50,000,000 Chinese and as recently as 1976 Pol Pot in Cambodia murdered around 3,000,000. Someday we will get numbers from North Korea and Kim that will really be interesting. I'd also like to see the totals murdered by the Jews in Palestine another number we don't talk about. If anyone thinks that 500,000 Palestinians moved out into a tent refugee camp in the desert because Ariel Sharon asked them nicely, then you must also believe in "Hope & Change".

In short, the point has been espoused so much that it doesn't matter, it is just a number to continue victimization for the Zionist agenda. The whole idea we now have a term Denier to eliminate discourse is only part of the agenda.

Of more concern is the denial of the fact that communist regimes have murdered orders of magnitude more people that any fascists. No fascists have been in power since 1945 and yet the worst name anyone can be called is Nazi, despite the fact that Stalin and Mao made Hitler look like an amatuer. The fact that being called a communist is less derogatory than being called a Nazi is what is really scary.

You need to differentiate between "murdered by the State" and "died as a result of governmental incompetence" i.e. Chairman Mao and Stalin's thoroughly uninformed ideas about land ownership and agriculture.

Also, there were indeed plenty of Fascists still in power after 1945. Spain, Chile, Argentina, all were military junta gov'ts in the same vein as Hiter's Germany and Mussolini's Italy. I'm going to sound like a total cock right, but you should really be getting your facts straight before you go shooting off such incredibly broad statements.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by duality90]

Originally posted by fapython
Zionism was actively supported by the SS, the Gestapo and Adolf Hitler.

Between 1933 and 1942 there existed an organized a network of 40 camps throughout Germany where prospective Jewish settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine. These German funded "Kibbutz" training camps were run by Zionists. When the emigrants left for Palestine they were permitted to take all their wealth with them.

This was the direct result of an agreement between Zionists and Germany, whereby Jews would be encouraged to settle in Palestine, Madagascar, or other areas denoted by the Zionist group.

Through this "Transfer" agreement, Hitler's Germany did more than any other government to support Jewish nationalism and further Zionist goals.

Other Jewish groups sabotaged the agreement when they successfully caused Palestine, Britain, the US and other European countries all to refuse entry to the Jewish emigrants. Many ships were sent back to Germany from Palestine, the UK and the US for this reason.

THE "FINAL SOLUTION"

Many Zionists of that era openly supported Nazism and encouraged Adolf Hitler to send his "Unwanted Jews" to British Palestine / Israel.

Adolf was delighted to cooperate. By encouraging Jewish emigration more than two-thirds of Germany's Jews emigrated voluntarily in a peaceful process whereby they were permitted to take their wealth with them. Compared to previous pogroms against Jews this was relatively civilized and painless. What Germany considered their "Jewish Problem" was two-thirds solved - peacefully - by the time war broke out, but Jewish emigration to Israel was stopped by Britain who was having political trouble with different Jewish pressure groups.

Many Zionists were delighted with the German collaboration process and made suggestions to the Nazis to help speed up the process, such as forcing Jews in Germany to wear the star of David - a Zionist innovation. The more pressure German Jews felt, the more would emigrate to Israel, so the theory went. The end result (and proposed "Final Solution")was the resettlement of Jews in Palestine and elsewhere.

After other countries stopped accepting Jews from German held territories, Adolf had many of the remaining European Jews incarcerated and deported to the east, but continued to seek other destinations for them. Other countries, such as the US and Brittain, were persuaded not to accept Jewish emigrants from Germany. International Jewish lobby groups had implemented this refusal policy throughout Allied and neutral countries.

"It is remarkable that the states whose public opinion is in favour of the Jews all refuse to accept our Jews from us. They say they are magnificent pioneers of culture, and geniuses in economics, diplomacy, philosophy, and poetry, yet the moment we try to press one of these geniuses upon them, they clamp down their frontiers: ‘No, no! We don’t want them!’ I think it must be unique in the history of the world, people turning down geniuses." - Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels

Transfer Agreement


Also a good read is Hitlers Jewish Supporters
Hitlers Jewish Supporters

I applaud you for being one of the few people who is aware of the Nazi/Zionist connection, but the reality is that Adolf Hitler was far less than "delighted to cooperate". Nazi economic and immigration policy was such that the only Jews who were able to leave (I can't recall specific dates, but they began to clamp down on Jews leaving Germany something like...1936-8?) were those who were fabulously wealthy enough to pay the quite literally extortionate price for exit visas; it was also a condition of such exit visas that a significantly large portion (if not the entirety) of an applicant's personal wealth and property would immediately be ceded to State ownership.

Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin

Originally posted by LordBucket


"Holocaust" implies death by fire.

That is simply a linguistic interpretation. The term Holocaust was in use before World War two and aside from the linguistic interpretation that you have given it is generally used to refer to massive, organized destruction of groups of people.

"Holocaust" as understodd by historians today does not mean "death by fire". It denotes the whole of the campaign of the Nazis against the Jews.

So I ask, if germany was losing the war, and supplies were running thin...who do you think would have been given a higher priority for receiving food, their soldiers or their prisoners?

This is not a question of "imagening something". The documents are there. The germans didn't just give the food allocated to the inmates to the soldiers. They had a complex rationing system. The soldiers got most, forced laborers got some, and people selected for extermination did not get anything. The situation where they had to decide "us or them" just never appeared; they needed the forced labor just as much as they needed their soldiers. The options to just allocate the food for inmates to the guards was not pursuable since the forced laborors were in need of food and their work was deemed just as "Kriegsentscheidend" as feeding the combat troops. So the point is pretty moot. The allocation system never came to the point were they said "now just feed the soldiers" - this is clear from testimony of survivors, of soldiers, and it is in the documents of the third Reich itself.

If germany imprisoned people against their will and failed to take care of them, I see that as a different event than deliberately attempting to exterminate a race.

But both being the case was impossible? You do understand that there were hierarchies among inmates? That some were selected for gassing and others deemed fit to work?
The plan was never to just exterminate them. The plan was to kill them by using their labor. But the great schemes they had in mind never played out. Forced labor and extermination were seen as 2 sides of a coin - and thorugh military necessity the plan changed from year to year. It's not a simple story.

They started out with the idea that the Jews and Russian prisoners would build the infrastructure of the new East-Reich. They never got to that point. They let most Russian soldiers starve and used the Rest as well as the Jews for forced labor. But since the jews were going to be exterminated in the long run anyways, they selected all Jews unfit for forced labor for immediate extermination. The rest was thought to be worked to death. Then the war fortunes changed. The emphasis shifted a bit. There were many voices who by 1944 said that killing the Jews was wasting their labor - and they were proven right - the Germans had to drastically increase their recruitment of non-jewish foreigners for labor - forced and other.

It's not a black and white issue. The Jews were not simply "all gassed" - that was never the plan.

I don't see any contradiction. No one has ever claimed that each and every deported Jews was gassed or burned. The term "Holocaust" was never used that narrowly - at least not among historians.

For whatever reason, the other user was somehow debating the very etymology of the word itself (if I'm not mistaken, drawn from Greek Holos+caustos? 'to extinguish a flame'?).

I wasn't there so I dont know, but it is all too wierd to me how.
1. Prescott Bush- funded Hitler and the German side of the war.

2. Operation Paperclip - then bring many top Nazi scientist to aid America in many different aspects, from rockets and vaccines, to global government.

3. Now the mostly Jewish Zionist Regime has got a stronghold on our media and our governent for that matter. While the Bildebergs run off with all the power, and all America knows to do is blame Obama. hhhmmmm scapegoat?

So instead of the roughly 90 million Native Americans (indians) killed and still being killed today (through) land grabbing and alcoholism, we are supposed to trust the numbers given to us by these evil assholes. And feel bad for Jews. I think Jews are doing ok these days don't you? What about all of the innocent dying in the middle east? But that's a part of war huh? Even if the war is built on lies. Isn't it time for the truth to come out so we can focus our hatred elsewhere. Oh yeah. Screw Hitler lets blame the terrorist. They killed 3000 jews on 9-11 right?
Live in fear, Divide and Conquer!

I dont think so, anything I was taught in education camps grade K-12 I write off as all bull# and then start my own research based on the fact that everything "they" tell us is a lie and pretty much the exact oposite ends up as truth.

Keep giving up your liberty for security and see what that gets you.

Keep focusing on shiv they "taught" you and watch our world wilt.

And the wheel..................................................g.o.e.s........round!