To all female ATS members, who support the ways of the middle east.

reply to post by fred call

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OK,

I support all women who wish to achieve dignity, freedom and equality in this world. That goes not only for women in Islamic cultures but also those who are submitting to the "Surrendered Wife" ideology here in the United States.

No, I do not support invasion of other countries or cultures in order to spread my brand of feminism. There is a vast difference between standing with women who want to liberate themselves and the forcible imposition of cultural imperialism on others.

Some people on this thread are conflating the two. For some reason, it is not politically correct to criticize another culture in some instances but okay in others. For example, the practice of child slavery is pretty universally denounced, no matter where in the world it is found. I have seen no one on ATS defend it. Yet somehow when the issue is about gender slavery some take a "hands off, respect another culture" attitude.

Again, I can support those women whose struggle I agree with without necessarily denouncing those who more or less willingly accept their fate. To support is not to impose one's will on another.

reply to post by dreamwalker74


So which Middle Eastern countries have you lived in?

Please tell us about your experiences. You seem to know so much about it.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Not only that, last night I watched Larry King interview Michael Moore. Larry King asked Moore what America should do about the illegal immigration situation.

Moore said that America has plenty of room and that America should donate Kansas to illegal immigrants.

Gee, I wonder what Kansans think of that idea.

Why is it liberals complain they can't even get miniumum wage jobs anymore, then they protest to allow illegals to come into America to work for even less than minimum wage?

In some strange ways I applaud Saudi Arabia for not allowing liberalism to spread too far in their country. I wouldn't live in Saudi Arabia. But I understand their feelings on rampant liberalism

[edit on 123131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by fred call


I give up.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


My comment and question was for the OP.

It wasn't aimed at you.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


First of all, I am calm.

Secondly, the best methodology would be a middle course, and not one extreme or the other.

I being raised Muslim and once living in a Muslim community know many moderate Muslim men and women from all over the world. They would NEVER expose themselves to the depraved violence of the Taliban and other depraved violence of muslims who want to go back to the 9th century.

That said I appreciate your concern for the woman in the mid-east who are oppressed.

It is a noble sentiment

You're typing your thread as if YOU'VE actually been there. So, I propose the same challenge to you. Don't speculate, don't make a bunch of hate speech, get up, and go out there and live in the middle east under their rules, and see what happens.

I think you're forgetting that there are plenty of American women and men out there RIGHT NOW as I type these words who are very happy and who have been living there for years. FACT.

This is just another retarded hate thread that has no value when it comes to creating any form of unity in the world. And by the way, there are sects of Christianity that are actually fundamentally more retarded than anything seen in Islam. I don't want to say any names but um...Cough...Pentacostalism, burp...the Amish. These are backwards cults that focus on some of the most retarded tenets in the history of mankind.

So while you point your fingers to say...

"Look at those people, they're crazy. They practice something different that what they're supposed to..." Look in the mirror, because you sound like a fundamentalist with an agenda.

And, if we had just kept our noses in our own business, we would never even know whether their world was different than ours. They have practiced their religion for centuries. Who are YOU to talk crap about something that existed longer than you have been on this planet? People like you need to be stopped, or at least put in a genetics lab so that we can figure out what went wrong so that your type of DNA can be eliminated from future generations. The gene that breeds hate needs to be destroyed so that the intelligent can reshape the world of the future.

[edit on 2-8-2010 by PsychoX42]

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

My comment and question was for the OP.

It wasn't aimed at you.

Excuse me, I am having a nervous breakdown.

reply to post by mamabeth


They are all false religions, including the one that you practice.

reply to post by inforeal


Oh good I thought you were shouting at me, lol

know many moderate Muslim men and women from all over the world.

I know and as I have stated have worked for and prayed with Muslims, and I dearly love the women I know, they are kind and humble.

They have a sacred place in my heart.

Now I am going to cry, lol

reply to post by LostNemesis


Agreed. I think that this thread was created under very dubious, and hateful circumstances, and I hope that the OP can get over themselves long enough to understand that part of exercising their religion runs parallel with people engaging in their own form of freedom and expression.

Everyone is so quick to give their 2 cents on how to police the world and shape it to fit their ideas of a perfect society. Well, isn't that what the elite is doing right now? Isn't that what we come to this site to complain about?

Its bad enough when we have elitist psychopaths (i.e. politicians/corporations) that are controlling and raping the world, its even worse when the constituents actually enable this process.

Good post, star from me...

Namaste and Love

YES- go ther, please. And, remember, to get your clitorectomy!!! Send us a post-card, telling us how "fulfilling" it was!!

I would like to point out that this may be the case in Muslim countries throughout the middle east, yet a woman in Israel is as a women in any western country. No oppression by law, though as in any religion, the religious women are not treated as equals.
Israel is a single western democracy in what you describe as "the middle east", please don't mix us up with culturally backward 'civilizations' surrounding us.
thank you.
Muslim 'honor crimes':

Culture of death? Palestinian girl's murder highlights growing number of 'honor killings' They kill their own, too. And the world expects "peace"? ABU QASH — Rofayda Qaoud — raped by her brothers and impregnated — refused to commit suicide, her mother recalls, even after she bought the unwed teenager a razor with which to slit her wrists. So Amira Abu Hanhan Qaoud says she did what she believes any good Palestinian parent would: restored her family's "honor" through murder.

Source: 'honor killings'

reply to post by PsychoX42

give their 2 cents on how to police the world and shape it to fit their ideas of a perfect society.

It is hard to turn a deaf ear and a blind eye to the suffering of others regardless of where they live,

I don't have any answers, but I know how the story ends.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by fred call

 

I give up.

Some other brainwashed person will take your place. Nice try, but good people just don't dwell on hatred. I will agree with you, some places treat women bad, but not the whole middle east.

reply to post by oniongrass

I only used rape as an example of what might happen to an unsupervised young girl in a war torn area. Many bad things could happen. You say rape doesn't happen there well Idk I'll have to take your word for it. What you've got to consider is when little girls are turned loose on the streets not all men are going to be looking out for their best interest. Maybe you're right muslim men for the most part are honorable. Does that mean she won't encounter a non-muslim who isn't as honorable?

I'm only pointing out the drawbacks of such lifestyle choices and how often abusive treatment, sadly, is the motivating factor that drives change. I don't wish rape on their daughters. The story I watched implied the girls were in great danger. I equated that with possible rapes amongst other things. The video I saw didn't leave me feeling there was much good in the lives of these little girls. Instead of using the word rape I should have let you fill in the blank with the host of bad things that can happen to unsupervised little girls.

I'm sorry children begging on the streets should never be the norm. I see it the same as any woman who would use her child as a means of support. Muslim or not women do it all the time. I simply think that's a very wrong thing to do whether you're religious or not.

Why you inviting ladies from Western Countries to live there and have babies. Make it easier. Ask the ones that are already living there and have babies and families. Ask them how is it there compare to here. Just because you don't agree with the way of life of Middle Easterns, it doesn't mean their way is wrong. Yes they are hard working people and they will teach you too how to work hard but they will never force you. They would respect you just as they would want you to respect them. The difference is education. Educated people will teach you in better way and uneducated people will teach you by older methods. If you recognize the fact then your attitude will be positive to receive the help.

Originally posted by NoamC
I would like to point out that this may be the case in Muslim countries throughout the middle east, yet a woman in Israel is as a women in any western country. No oppression by law, though as in any religion, the religious women are not treated as equals.
Israel is a single western democracy in what you describe as "the middle east", please don't mix us up with culturally backward 'civilizations' surrounding us.
thank you.

While honor killings are abhorrent and unjust, I take issue with your point of being surrounded by culturally backward civilizations. By putting that word in quotes I am led to believe you question whether they are civilizations at all. With what our respective countries (UK and Israel) have done to other nations, it is questionable whether we can rank as civilized. Our materialistic desires have almost crashed our economies and our governments still perpetrate unjust wars in our names.