Afghanistan war logs: Massive leak of secret files exposes truth of occupation

Originally posted by rusethorcain
I still say, burn the poppies, disable Pakistan's nuclear capabilities and get the flock out of there!

Can't happen!

Poppies = CIA's main source of funding

Pakistan's nukes = justification for invading Pakistan if they don't follow Washington's orders.

Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline = Long sought after pipeline that was the real reason for invading Afghanistan

We're going nowhere until that pipeline is in and secure just as we're never leaving Iraq now that we've got their oil under control.

These wars were not mistakes by our government(s.) They might not have gone strictly to plan but that's no problem for them as long as they get their resources and/or profits.

There's plenty of sources available on line - just search for Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline and fill your boots. Here's one for starters:

Unocal and the Afghanistan pipeline

Unocal withdrew from CentGas, and informed the State Department "the gas pipeline would not proceed until an internationally recognized government was in place in Afghanistan." Although Unocal continued on and off negotiations on the oil pipeline (a separate project), the lack of support from Washington hampered efforts....
For the remainder of the Clinton presidency, there would be no official US or UN recognition of Afghanistan. And no progress on the pipeline.

Then George Walker Bush took the White House.

reply to post by JohnJasper



I keep hearing about this pipeline as reason we invaded Afghanistan......Well it's been almost a decade.....where's the dang pipeline?? You'd think if it was such a high reason to invade we would have already built it and started sucking up all the resources for our benefit.

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by Visitor2012
reply to post by pavil

 

"I'm confused.....were supposed to arrest and try the Taliban as we fight them in a war? Personally I just prefer we kill them in engagements.......we are still allowed to fight them aren't we??? Just want to make sure it's acceptable to fire at them. I also see no problem in killing Taliban with Drones so we don't have to risk coalition troops. "

Are you joking or are you insane? You seem to relish in this evil, like you're a part of it.

No... quite sane. In war you defeat your enemy, it's not evil to destroy your enemy. I guess you feel we are not allowed to attack only respond to attacks. I guess we aren't allowed to fire at them. That is a sure way to lose a war.

I know, I know bloodthirsty warmonger right? I have no sympathy for an enemy in war that continues to fight and attack me. Don't expect me to feel bad when I hear we have killed another Taliban leader.

Every single person like you has a reason to fight an "enemy', Both sides have a reason to fight an "Enemy' and Both of you die fighting an "Enemy".
The problem is that neither one of you know who the Enemy truly is and that makes both of you, on both sides, equally stupid and blind.

But I'm sure you'd make a great soldier. I pray that they wake up with some humanity left in them, when they find out who they are really fighting for.

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Visitor2012]

reply to post by pavil


No, no pipeline. They seem to be the flavor of the month. Ostensibly, Afghanistan was a war against al-Qaeda, but that organization has set up camp in a number of other countries. My honest opinion, we went to war because we could. Initially, it was revenge and this has lasted a long time. The Taliban aren't our enemy and were never the reason for conflict.

Originally posted by JohnJasper

Originally posted by Birddog26
Just started reading this porst and I don't think anyone understands how the COK (Capture or Kill) list is applied or how they go about hitting these targets. The COK list is signed of by the President, Sec at DOD, Dirt CIA, gang of 8 in Congress. In target and anyone on the COK if you are a field CO you go through a number of checks that determines the identity, then through JAG officers to make sure it is legal, then through a target mitigation process to reduce collaterial damage, then final approval. From exprience I would say that less than 1 in 7 targets are hit due to known collateral damage.

And how do you know this? What "experience" do you have in the targetted drone attack business?

Perhaps you missed the recent coverage of how the CIA targets "militants" based solely on "pattern of life" analysis and their actual identities are often never known?

Pakistani officials have charged that the overwhelming majority of the victims of the CIA missile attacks are civilians, most of them women and children. They have placed the number of civilians killed at over 700 last year alone.

But of course, we cannot believe anything that Pakistani officials tell us, can we?

Obama widens drone attacks in Pakistan

John, I am and Army officer who has spent the best part of my life in Afghanistan since 9/11. I have been in a number of G2 and G3 positions with units. My most recent tour was on the J3 staff for JSOC. As to understanding the application of "pattern of life intel" to tracking I am very familar with this. This a tool that is used for tracking and predicting movements but is no where even near the only intel used in the go-no go of strikes.

Just putting it out there do you think this leak has something to do with the russian spies that were cought a few week ago ??????

The British and American armies have been doing this type of crap of years...

It's about time the people know what the hell is going on over there!! Enough is enough... They are only there for the resources (oil and minerals... Karzai (Prob wrong spelling) is a bush goon who's involved with the Builderburg Group and Trilateral Commission...
What was the first document signed when he took over? An oil pipeline through the country, contracted to the US..!!
All the corruption is what is loosing this war... Why? Because American and British contractors are funnelling the money out of the country and into their own hands.
I'M SICK TO DEATH OF THE IMPERIALISM..!!! America and England need to start looking in their own backyards instead of others...
Next on the list... IRAN...!! WORLD WAR FROM THIS ONE... Israel will cause this!! AGAIN... STAY IN YOUR OWN BACKYARD!!!
Nth Korea will help Iran... This is a war that no one will win!!
Australia will also not escape this either!! Our new "selected" Prime Minister's husband is part of the Israel lobby group!! LORD HELP US!!
GOOD ON WIKILEAKS!! RELEASE THE REST..!! THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW SO WE THE PEOPLE CAN ACT..!!!

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by Section31

 

Nope, im actually proud of it.
If I had enough balls, and nothing to lose id love to do the same...

Good to see there are people inside who are willing to stand up for humanity... i just wish there were more of them.

Okay, so you have no problem with innocent people dying, so that you can obtain sensitive top-secret information from the government?

Link: Afghan leaks dangerously expose informants' identities

Seriously? Not only is the information sensitive, but how you obtain such intelligence is also important. If we are incapable of protecting people who give us help, we are no better than those who seek to destroy us. Also, we will never be able to tap them for more information in the future.

After reading some of the posts in this thread, I think people take their freedoms for granted. I don't think many of you truly understand what just happened.

What if this information exposes American or British spies, which are currently operating among the Afghan people?

What if this information exposes certain military vulnerabilities, which put our troops and the Afghanistan/Iraqi people into jeopardy?

Really? You people really think this is okay?

Maybe we should start drafting people, so they can understand why keeping secrets is important. Maybe those people who are drafted can be put on the front-lines, and we can leak to the enemy who they are, where they live, and what type of weaponry they carry. Maybe we should also leak out a list of their family members, where they live, and how to get to them.

Do you agree with leaking this information now?

Maybe we should also leak information on people's children. Maybe we should tell terrorist how to find them, where they go to school, what their names are, and what would be the best way to abduct them?

Is that what you people want? Truly?

I really do not think anyone who agrees with this leak understands what just happened. Only very ignorant people would think that this way okay.



[edit on 28-7-2010 by Section31]

reply to post by Section31


I wasn't aware the truth about the war effort going on in our name in Afghanistan is the same as prying into the private lives of little kids across America.

What a beautifully absurd and absolutely #tarded example.

reply to post by Section31


I would take your point if the information was classified as top secret. It isn't and would appear to be low-grade intelligence detailing casualties of war. It has been stated before that none of the information is new and was available if one new where to search and had such an inclination to do so.

The information is only going to shock those that want to be shocked.

Edit to say: It has been noted in the media that the leak might make a troop surge more acceptable to the public now the true face of war has been revealed. It could be spun to suggest that they don't want to see casualties on this scale anymore and more troops with tougher directives would being closure sooner.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by LarryLove]

reply to post by SpectreDC

So, you don't think leaking this information will put innocent families into jeopardy? Are you sure that there are no innocent people (Iraqi and Afghan women, children, and men) who were put in risk because of this information being released?

Click on the link in my original post.

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by Section31

 

I would take your point if the information was classified as top secret. It isn't and would appear to be low-grade intelligence detailing casualties of war. It has been stated before that none of the information is new and was available if one new where to search and had such an inclination to do so.

The information is only going to shock those that want to be shocked.

You have not been paying attention.


[edit on 28-7-2010 by Section31]

Related thread with today's news...and some videos and what Congress is up to.

This is gonna blow, I think. Big time.

reply to post by Section31


Well, each to their own opinion and from the analysis I have read, the documents are in no way top secret. Think about the way the data has been collected. It must have been pooled from many different sources and entered into a database by perhaps a handful of people. How and why such a database was created is an interesting question.

We could argue until the cows come home over the classification of the information, but I fail to see how this will endanger the coalition.

I will agree that the information is damning.

Interesting. After Obama came into office, he started to confirm Bush's policies. Even though he superficially protested against such policies, it appears that these leaks also prove Bush knew what he was doing.

Afghanistan questions U.S. silence over Pakistan's role
www.reuters.com...

The classified documents released by the organization, WikiLeaks, show current and former members of Pakistan's spy agency were actively collaborating with the Taliban in plotting attacks in Afghanistan.

Was it not Bush who said Pakistan was a threat, and everyone ended up calling him a liar?

Was it not Bush who enacted Guantánamo Bay, but then Obama said it was a useful resource?

Was it not Bush who implemented the ease dropping policies, but Obama ended up quietly using them himself?

Was it not Bush who hired General Petraeus, Obama dismissed the man only for him to rehire the man?

Since the information is out of the bottle, I wonder how much more information will redeem Bush's policies.

"On Tuesday, in its first reaction to the leak, Afghanistan's National Security Council said the United States had failed to attack the patrons and supporters of the Taliban hiding in Pakistan throughout the nine-year conflict."

Remember this. We the American people prevented Bush from heading into Pakistan, for we bought into the media's sensationalism. We allowed the media to dictate policy. It was MSNBC, CBS, and ABC who told us that there were no terrorists in Pakistan. Many-many Americans bought into the media stories, and then 'we' turned our backs on both Bush and the Afghanistan people. We did this ourselves.

"On Monday, the Afghan government said it had spoken in private and in public meetings with its Western allies about the need to stop civilian deaths."

That is almost impossible.


[edit on 28-7-2010 by Section31]

reply to post by Section31


But remember that Pakistan has vested interests in what government will eventually form in Afghanistan. Strategically, its western border is very important. There has and always will be conflict with India. It wouldn't want two volatile borders. The Taliban have been removed from power, but not defeated. It is very likely they will form part of any new Afghan government and Pakistan knows this. Part of their Taliban collaboration is due to this.

Edit to say: Don't lose sight of why we went to war in Afghanistan. It wasn't to remove the Talban, but fight al-Qaeda who subsequently found sanctuary in a number of other countries. Pakistan being one of those countries, but in areas that weren't secure. The real question is why have we continued a war against an enemy that wasn't ours to begin with.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by LarryLove]

reply to post by LarryLove

According to the new report, the 'interest' Pakistan has in Afghanistan is in contradiction to peace. Very interesting.

reply to post by Section31


What is the new report you detail in your post? Could you provide a link for me to get up to speed?

reply to post by LarryLove

I misspoke. I meant the new news article about the document leaks. See the link in my post.

Sorry man. Wrong word.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Section31]

reply to post by Section31


No problem. One reason for the silence may be due to the fact that Pakistan will have to pick up a lot of the pieces when the coalition forces withdraw. The same thing happened after Russia withdrew and the CIA pulled all funding and support after that war. Pakistan needed to stabilize the situation, so as to ensure hostility didn't spill over their border. Pakistan will most likely be left with a mess and again it would be in their interest to have an Afghan government that was friendly towards it.

These wikileaks mean squat to me. 20 years down the track I strongly doubt anyone would even remember them. Personally I'm not interested.

The most unfortunate thing about war is there is always colaterial damage in the taking of innocent lives; it happened in Vietnam, it happened in WW2, it happened in WW1, it happened in EVERY war known to mankind - and the numbers of any one war far exceeded that of Afghanistan and Iraq put together.

What is more determental is when any of our soldiers intentionally go out and MURDER innocent people. Thank goodness this very rarely ever happens.

There is a big difference between killing and cold blooded murder.

Our soldiers must protect themselves at all times no matter what. They too are human!!!