Iran launches nuclear fusion program, says atomic energy chief

reply to post by SLAYER69


Here's a little snippet.

I remember watching a UK TV show called 'Tomorrows World' back in the 80's.

It was a popular BBC programme profiling and showcasing new inventions and developments in technology...sadly no longer airing, it was a favorite of mine.

This one episode from the 80's, had as it's central item, a 'backyard shed' inventor who had come up with a thick gel like substance that had absolutely amazing properties for heat resistance.

As a live (the programme was aired live) demonstration, this middle aged, middle English man, took some of his newly invented gel and smeared a quite thin coating of it on a raw hens egg..about 5mm thick.

Then he took an Oxy/acetylene blowtorch, lit it and held it to the egg for a while..about 30 seconds or thereabouts!

The gel developed a thin crust of carbon, and that was it.

The man turned off the torch, immediately took hold of the egg with his bare hands, and cracked it into a plate...it was still totally RAW and the presenter confirmed that it wasn't even WARM to the touch...from a blowtorch!

DuPont meanwhile, had already sunk over £60,000,000.00 over decades in researching essentially the same thing, and had got nowhere...not a thing, despite ploughing all of that money and time and resources, they didn't even come close. The same was true of other firms and R&D outfits around the world.

The moral is...just because others, who you would assume could achieve something they set their minds to cannot get results, don't think for a minute that someone, somewhere, with ZERO funds and resources cannot achieve something remarkable.

Bunch of "IFs". IF i had enough money, and IF i were powerful enough, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I love how on ATS the hypothetic seems to equal reality in so many peoples minds LOL.

Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by Jordan River

 

What's the problem?

I didn't say they are becoming a superpower, i suggested that if the US did not compete in an energy technology race with Iran, and IF Iran succeeded with an alternative energy technology that freed them from a reliance on oil, they could indeed replace the US in terms of a monetary superpower...

You don't agree?

At the danger of putting Iran down i would say the US/Russia have been in a better position for the last 50 years to crack fusion than Iran is now and neither country has. So i don't see Iran getting anywhere close TBH.

reply to post by spikey


bloody nora!! I remember watching that growing up in the 80's, i just wish I could remember half it to compare with todays technology!

But thats what i'm saying, the PTB decide how much somethings gonna be, and the greedy pratts they bring in to build it, anything can be done for nothing if mankind really wanted to 'better itself'.

As to the comment on the post further down on how the USA and Russia are ahead on the tech, probably true, but how much further could they be if it wasn't for the funding // money issue?? If Iran has a team doing it for a pittance they may have caught right up! OK, i'm probably wrong, but it's realistic right?

EDIT: Money is the modern day dark ages, slowing scientific progress right down.

[edit on 24/7/10 by woogleuk]

reply to post by MrVertigo


Apply the battery technology to solar and wind technology, hurp durp.

Also, use Electron-photon suction rather than the current electron-photon collision. Carbon nanotubes with magnetic fields inducing the outer electron shell towards the innards tube. Shoot laser into tube. Looseness the electron and EM forces push the electrons down into a wire. Sucks the electrons out of the air.

Hurp durp.




[edit on 24-7-2010 by Gorman91]

Yeah. Because oil is the name of the game with that country. Right now new energy technology will probably be on the lines of nuclear power plants. They are not that advanced in techna. that is what I understand what iran really wants. Iran already have their grips on oil and know the importance of it. Why change global energy when you already globalize energy? Us/euro could probably change the global energy crisis but they dont just to monopolize more oil for high oil tycoons and ceo money men


besides if their is one country to really worry about it is china.

Whole lot cheaper to let others spend billions to come up with the ideas to climb the tech tree, then you take those ideas and start near the finish line

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this what Iran was saying it wanted all along? Makes sense. Everyone keeps talking about their dependence on their own oil but I thought most of their oil wasn't even consumed by their own populace? Isn't it China who gets a good percentage of their oil? I thought this was why they wanted alternative energies, to break their reliance on foreign oil?

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Bunch of "IFs". IF i had enough money, and IF i were powerful enough, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I love how on ATS the hypothetic seems to equal reality in so many peoples minds LOL.

Well maybe that's because the "reality" we've been fed down our throats and engrained into our minds isn't really reality? I mean, isn't that why we're here on ATS? Bc we understand that "reality" is far from the truth? I thought trying to find the real truth is what we were all on here for?

Originally posted by jonny2410
At the danger of putting Iran down i would say the US/Russia have been in a better position for the last 50 years to crack fusion than Iran is now and neither country has. So i don't see Iran getting anywhere close TBH.

I disagree. You seriously think two of the biggest oil loving empires are gonna just let some alternative energy waltz on in and take over? We already know what JP Morgan did to Tesla and his invention that was supposed to transmit free, unlimited energy worldwide from one single location. We also know that J Edgar Hoover's men were quick to swoop in on his blueprints as soon as he passed away yet you still think bc the US and Russia haven't done it, then no one else can? I see some serious flaws in thinking that way.

Edit: Anyway, this could very well be the reason why we're looking to go to war. Those dirty zionists and their corporate buddies, banking families don't want their filthy oil money to stop rollin in. Everyone still seems to doubt Iran or even NK. I don't doubt them one bit. Koreans and Persians tend to be very intelligent even more so if they're working under as oppressive regimes as we're led to believe bc then their work, and something as monumental as this, isn't just their work anymore. It's a matter of life and death I'd imagine if everything we're told about their regimes is true. Just imagine how bad of PR that would be for the US and their allies. These countries they always try and persuade us into thinking are nothing but evil and poor countries are gonna do something the biggest, baddest and richest countries haven't been able to do in 50 years. Then the populace will really get into an uproar. I can hear it now, "You mean to tell me that these people you guys painted as dirty, evil clowns have broken off their reliance on oil while we're stuck paying between $3-$4 a gallon?" What is it in Europe? Like 7 or 8 euros a liter? Then they're still trying to pour carbon taxes on us!? You seriously can't think we're that stupid now right...?


[edit on 24-7-2010 by conspiracy88]

Nah i just come on here for comic relief. Its fun to see what 14 years old like to talk about! And as far as "reality" goes, yeah i mean sure we dont "know" everything but its not nearly as delusional as folks on here make it out to be. I mean the vast majority i see on here are living in a completely different made up reality of aliens, chemtrails, other dimensions, false flags, extreme paranoia etc.

Some folks actually think the moon is an alien craft thats been watching over our planet for eons...or the sun isnt "real". I mean come on!!

And to further my point, if they see something on the MSM then its FALSE, UNLESS it happens to be about aliens LOL.

Unbelievable.

Well maybe that's because the "reality" we've been fed down our throats and engrained into our minds isn't really reality? I mean, isn't that why we're here on ATS? Bc we understand that "reality" is far from the truth? I thought trying to find the real truth is what we were all on here for?

[edit on 24-7-2010 by princeofpeace]

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I did not look at CNN because I had already seen this news, but I was puzzled as to why no one knew how much was being put into this in Europe. Then I looked at CNN and it does not mention it.

I found this news this morning at asharq alawsat in the article Iran Studies Building Nuclear Fusion Reactor dated 24/07/2010

The relevant bit is down the article a bit:

The United States, the European Union, China, India, Russia, Japan and South Korea signed an accord in 2006 to build a $12.8 billion experimental fusion reactor at Cadarache, southern France, aimed at revolutionizing global energy use for future generations.

Yes it costs billions, but I would not be the least bit surprised if there was a break through like with the gel (what happened to that?).

I doubt they will make it but I sincerely hope they do.

By the way the poster who mentioned fusion and was pulled on that is actually correct. Fusion in nuclear weapon technology is employed to enhance the fission reaction, but it cannot be harness for power.

reply to post by PuterMan


Yea. They were successful. It's called ITER.


That's pt one. You can find the rest on youtube.

Originally posted by jonny2410
At the danger of putting Iran down i would say the US/Russia have been in a better position for the last 50 years to crack fusion than Iran is now and neither country has. So i don't see Iran getting anywhere close TBH.

Don't want to burst your bubble but fusion power expertise and science is mainly focussed in Europe through the Joint European Torus (JET), which is based in the UK and the proposed International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) which is as the name suggests “international” but being built in France.

Please, don’t worry about “putting Iran down” because they are blabbering on. If anyone on these Boards thinks that Iran has the capability then they are living on a different planet and not facing the facts.

Iran has neither the scientific base nor the technological know how to “go it alone”. This is not something you can do off the back of building a nuclear reactor or a few nuclear bombs, this is serious cutting edge science. A prerequisite is a tradition of scientific exploration and research based in an advanced and inquiring academic system and the industrial base to back it all up. Iran has neither. In fact, I would hazard a guess that there are no Iranian universities in the top (say) 500 such institutions internationally and probably not in the top 1,000.

JET
ITER

Regards

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
This is great, and something I was talking about on the boards just last week.

Iran is delving into alternative energy, and if they are succesfull, could perhaps one day lead the world in this sort of technology.

Could you imagine if they were exporting 100% of their oil and using none of it?

It would be one of the most powerful countries in the world almost overnight.

I for one am glad to read this development, I hope Iran is successfull, both with this, and their nuclear energy program.

Thoughts?www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Nice thoughts, but in truth this is virtually certain to not happen. The physics and engineering and financial challenges are much too strong. Iran doesn't remotely have the long-term capability and investment to make significant progress. I don't believe that any USA or EU or Russian project (who have immensely more experience) will be successful in the next 25 years either. (scientific success maybe, but certainly no economic success).

However, it is much more plausible and realistic to use a magnetic fusion devices to make significant numbers of neutrons for producing fissile plutonium Pu-239 from depleted uranium U-238, obviating the need for a fission reactor. It may not be under IAEA safeguards either, and the most obvious purpose is weapons material production.

Magnetic fusion devices today are capable of producing substantial neutron fluxes from fusion, though not at a level enough for sustained power production.

There is significant open literature on the hypothetical use of magnetic fusion reactors for transmutation of nuclear waste.

You will, for obvious security reasons, not find any discussion of the production of Pu-239 (expensive-valuable-weapon core) from U-238 (ubiquitous, cheap), but the physics is the same: neutron capture. You'll need additional neutron moderation (graphite or deuterated water), but that's 1940 technology.

The controllable nature of the magnetic fusion (turn it on, it makes neutrons, turn it off, it stops right away) is good for this purpose because it can be controlled to get maximal amount of Pu-239 and little Pu-240, which hurts fission weapons.

The major nuclear weapons states did not pursue this because when they set up their programs large scale fusion reactors were not available, but fission reactors were.


[edit on 25-7-2010 by mbkennel]

[edit on 25-7-2010 by mbkennel]

[edit on 25-7-2010 by mbkennel]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower


This is great, and something I was talking about on the boards just last week.

Iran is delving into alternative energy, and if they are succesfull, could perhaps one day lead the world in this sort of technology.

Could you imagine if they were exporting 100% of their oil and using none of it?

It would be one of the most powerful countries in the world almost overnight.

I for one am glad to read this development, I hope Iran is successfull, both with this, and their nuclear energy program.

Thoughts?

~Keeper

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I believe that's the core of the problem for Iran.

The war drums are beating like mad (just like the did for Iraq) but people should sit back, take of their prejudicial pointed hats and ask a serious question:

Is this a war between an empire and a rogue evil state

or

Is this a war between a dying western empire and an emerging 3rd world power?

Yes Iran and other countries are perceived as third world countries but there seems to be an overriding current of thought that no other country should be allowed to develop any further than their poverty lines unless the western powers say so.

This sends a strong message out to any other emerging country, that you cannot really develop out of your western debt unless you want to face future conflicts.

tothetenthpower makes a valid point, are the western consumers of oil more worried they will lose a supply line, scared of Iran (genuinely) having the the resources and drive to create alternative energy or they actually believe Iran is a threat to the world (not discounting Iran could overreact as they do seem a bit temperamental as a nation).

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I bet the US won't let Iran develop anything that wold jeopardize the dollar more then it already is.

This will be twisted by the US policy makers as a threat that Iran is creating nuclear weapons.

"breaking news from alien media channels" iran and china in a war of words, for pushing 'north korea' for a war with the current super power, usa, china slammed iranian president to fight his battle alone with out using the communists army, to fight for iran great


Mod edit: Caps removed. Please see The use of All Caps Thank you - Jak

[edit on 7/8/10 by JAK]

Originally posted by ickylevel
Fusion (for energy) research is difficult. Western countries spend billions in it. So I doubt Iran is going to go anywhere. Fusion probably means atomic bomb for them. They just officialy announced that they are making bombs.

[edit on 24-7-2010 by ickylevel]

I would say I agree with this 100%.

I doubt they're making bombs, that's what you are supposed to think.
And if they were, what of it? Israel has nukes, and they, with the support of western allies, prohibit other mid-eastern countries to attain them for themselves.

If we stopped treating the rest of the middle east like a redheaded step-child, and started respecting their thoughts and ideas, they'd be at least a little more inclined to do the same back.

But as it is, we made this bed the way it is, and WE WILL reap the consequences unless we start thinking intelligently.

"Yah, right."

Originally posted by spikey
I remember watching a UK TV show called 'Tomorrows World' back in the 80's.

The gel developed a thin crust of carbon, and that was it.

The man turned off the torch, immediately took hold of the egg with his bare hands, and cracked it into a plate...it was still totally RAW and the presenter confirmed that it wasn't even WARM to the touch...from a blowtorch!

DuPont meanwhile, had already sunk over £60,000,000.00 over decades in researching essentially the same thing, and had got nowhere...not a thing, despite ploughing all of that money and time and resources, they didn't even come close. The same was true of other firms and R&D outfits around the world.

The moral is...just because others, who you would assume could achieve something they set their minds to cannot get results, don't think for a minute that someone, somewhere, with ZERO funds and resources cannot achieve something remarkable.

Originally posted by PuterMan
Yes it costs billions, but I would not be the least bit surprised if there was a break through like with the gel (what happened to that?).

I also remember viewing a program back in the 1980s on the substance, It's called Aerogel. It's been around since the 1930s. In it's present form Aerogel when burned doesn't develop a thin crust of carbon. It stays perfect because it is made from Carbon.

The Moral is...

Simply becuase something is removed from the public's view and awareness doesn't mean it disappears from Corporate or Military experimentation or applications.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/00440499f84a.jpg[/atsimg]
Aerogel

Aerogel was first created by Samuel Stephens Kistler in 1931, as a result of a bet with Charles Learned over who could replace the liquid in 'jellies' with gas without causing shrinkage.[3][4]

Aerogels are produced by extracting the liquid component of a gel through supercritical drying. This allows the liquid to be slowly drawn off without causing the solid matrix in the gel to collapse from capillary action, as would happen with conventional evaporation. The first aerogels were produced from silica gels. Kistler's later work involved aerogels based on alumina, chromia and tin oxide. Carbon aerogels were first developed in the late 1980s.[5]

[edit on 25-7-2010 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by Jordan River
what is the consensus idea if Iran is looking into nuke devlopment vs energy.

IMO the OP is naive x 100.

If the world's best scientists haven't been able to harness fusion to create civilian energy in over 50 years of trying, I sincerely doubt iran can all of the sudden come up with a solution.

No, this is just another smokescreen while they attempt to enhance the distructive power of the nuclear weapons iran is developing.

Making this sort of really stupid anouncement will accomplish nothing except getting iran attacked for sure.