Revelation; The Beast-great leader and antichrist

reply to post by alonzo730

I am now attaching a link to my more recent thread on the first chapter of Revelation, which sets the tone for this book;
Fear Not

Originally posted by hootieowl
Referencing back to prior post on 1 Cor 3:16 - yes, this was for the christian exclusively, believing the temple is within us. No problem there.

I didn't look back far enough, was only looking at the Dome of Rock reference. In Rev 11:1-3 is what was in my mind regarding the physical temple being built. And this written when, 90-95 A.D. - when christianity is already off and running. So this alone should show it is for the Jew.

I went into this point more in the "Beast and the Temple" thread.
If the Christian body itself is "God's temple", from the Christian viewpoint, which is what Paul asserts, then that affects the interpretation of the statement in 2 Thessalonians that the "man of sin" would take his seat in "the temple of God". And similarly the Christian understanding of the equivalent statements at the end of Daniel. It argues against the necessity to assume any rebuilding of a physical temple.

There is now an Index, covering all these Revelation threads, at this location;

Index of Revelation threads

This thread is numbered as #26 in the "order of chapters" list and Biblical reference index.

Just to clarify;
Nothing in the OP is intended to suggest any particular prophetic significance in the year 2012 or the date 21/12/2012

666 IS JESUS

reply to post by DISRAELI


My response to the claims made about the year 2012 was that I could see no prophetic significance in the date.
This position seems to have been vindicated.

This series was running ten years ago, and the topic may soon be relevant again.

A lot of Revealation and the mark of the beast, specifically: 666, is the persecution of the Christians under the reign of the Roman Emperor Nero.

a reply to: Mnb72
Agreed, but I think there are two messages in Revelation. One for John's church, one for a later church. One about Nero, one about a ruler modelled after Nero (and "666" means both).

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Mnb72
Agreed, but I think there are two messages in Revelation. One for John's church, one for a later church. One about Nero, one about a ruler modelled after Nero (and "666" means both).

Which passage are referring to that separates itself from Nero in terms of another ruler?

I would say that there is an allusion to Nero in the vision of John, and this might be pointing towards something that was at work in the present time and not the future we refer to in our time.

If you look at the way the language is used in Revelation, it refers to connections to the whole expansion of the Roman empire which includes Egypt, Babylon, Persia, Assyria, Greece - with many factions that were considered to have been opposing Christians. This was done through political and religious pressure, asking for people to worship the Roman Emperor, which in this case, was Nero.

Furthermore, the descriptions of the first beast (the antichrist) in many ways describes the various animals that symbolised the empires in the Book of Daniel and this beast seems to embody them all.

a reply to: Mnb72
The defeat of the Beast, or at least one form of the Beast, is followed by the return of Christ and the arrival of the New Jerusalem. These things did not happen after the defeat of Nero, which suggests that a futurist message is also involved.

I invite you to compare Daniel ch11, which is patently describing the ancient king Antiochus Epiphanes down to v35, when the "time appointed" has not yet arrived, and equally obviously describing a different king from v36 onwards. Once again, the latter king's downfall includes things (in ch12) which have not happened yet. This forces us to the conclusion that there are two kings in this chapter, one being historic, and the other being cast in the same mould but in the future. Though since Jesus refers to v31 as a future event, we may have to assume an "overlap" in vv31-35 between the two descriptions.

My belief that there is a "double image" in Revelation is supported by the evident "double image" in Daniel.

You will need to go through the whole series of threads (soon to be published as a book) to see how the whole theory pans out and holds together as a consistent explanation of the text.

originally posted by: Mnb72
Which passage are referring to that separates itself from Nero in terms of another ruler?

Also, more specifically, ch17 v10

The fifth king, who "is" has to be the ruler at the time of writing. That is Nero, the persecuting emperor, initiating the immediate tribulation which John was "sharing in".

The Beast is the "eighth", and therefore later than Nero. And therefore different from Nero.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: Mnb72
Which passage are referring to that separates itself from Nero in terms of another ruler?

Also, more specifically, ch17 v10

The fifth king, who "is" has to be the ruler at the time of writing. That is Nero, the persecuting emperor, initiating the immediate tribulation which John was "sharing in".

The Beast is the "eighth", and therefore later than Nero. And therefore different from Nero.

That's really interesting, I hadn't considered that perspective.

What are your thoughts on the millennium? I see the Catholic and Anglican church commonly interpret this as amillennialism. What do you believe?

a reply to: Mnb72
I agree with Augustine that the "millennial" rule of Christ and the saints is happening now. Satan has been "bound" as a persecuter, and the great persecution of Roman times will return when he is unbound.

It isn't really fair to call this view "amillennial". It can rightly be called "pre-millennial", because it includes a millennium (while not defining the millennium as an ideal state), and places the visible return of Christ at the end of that period.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Interestingly I can see how the pandemic conditions are setting us up as a society for the Beast and Beast system.

Mass Formation Psychosis

Joe Rogan interviewed Dr. Malone. Skip down to where he starts talking about a phenomena in society called Mass Formation Psychosis.

Here's some more thoughts on it.

The idea is that through repeated fears and scares and psychological traumas, the people have become so socially unmoored that they are adrift and looking for anyone, anything that can promise to put it all back together.

a reply to: ketsuko
The theory I worked out during the course of these threads is that the events of ch6, the Four Horsemen, begin with a plague or even a pandemic; that the effect of this episode is to bring about a temporary collapse in the state of the world; and that the Beast from the sea turns out to be whatever state successfully leads the world into recovery from that crisis, winning praise and adulation from the rest of the world.

In other words- exactly.

a reply to: DISRAELI

And the talk about being able to deceive even the elect, fear and strong delusion, etc., may be referring to this period we are in now where the pressure to give in and lose your head in the face of all this and what you know to be right in front of you is so overwhelming.

a reply to: DISRAELI
People are not even close. If you translate the original text yourself it’s nothing about the future. There’s no antichrist or monsters. It’s an account of what was happening at the present time then 29,500 years ago. All the animals and the 4 corners that hold back the elements, it’s talking about what’s happening in the sky. Those are all constellations. What’s being described is a comet hitting the planet. Would have taken a year or two because the first time the comet went by close enough to the Earth some knew it when it came back around it was going to hit the planet. When a comet comes that close the earth will pass thru the path of its tail. So meteors would have come down. A lot of them. That’s what destroyed some of the cities. Earth would have pass thru the comets path every 6 months for 1-2 years then the comet hit.100 mile wide one that split into two pieces once thru the atmosphere. One piece hit where Salt Lake City is the other hit in the Antarctic. The heat would have melted the polar ice caps and the planet would have had floods. It was a mass extinction event. Why do you think it’s brought up multiple times by different people? They didn’t all see the same exact future. That’s impossible. They all saw the same cataclysmic event. The mark of the beast on their hands and foreheads were burns from it passing over them and them shielding themselves. It changed the planet completely. That’s why it says kids ate their parents and parents ate their kids because they were starving from everything dying. When it says it gave the beast new life it’s talking about the fires that were burning from the first hit. They had just went out when the second hit reigniting them. 15% of the entire planet burned from fires. Plenty of evidence backs all this up. Plus I have it on good authority all of what happened. When you find peace you find God.

a reply to: mcsnacks77
I have my interpretation of Revelation on the "good authority" of having read the whole book carefully and in context, not taking odd fragments in isolation and building up a private theory out of them. This thread was one of a series.

Welcome, newcomer. Why not start your own threads?

a reply to: DISRAELI

I wasn’t instructed to start my own. But I can do the entire revelations translated from paleo Hebrew text.
Behold he/they/she is coming from above the clouds, and all eyes shall see it. Even the stars that pierce the sky. All tribes will mourn and because of he/she/they. So it will be. Amen. He/they/she is the beginning and end. The Lord almighty. I John,your Brother in the coming tribulation, was awake on a Saturday during the trumpet(September 11) AKA the feast of Trumpets, when I heard a sound coming from the sky. Turning I saw one like the son of man.(God or father was the sun, and the moon was son of man) the seven lamp stands(big dipper) long robe, golden sash, bronze feet like a furnace, head white, eye of fire, as bright as the sun, sounded like roaring waters.
That’s what a comet would look like coming down.