Evolutionist I can prove to you that what you believe (evolution) is based on illogical reasoning, i

Originally posted by edmc^2




If it takes a team of engineers, scientist and programers to 'create' a robot what would it take to 'create' a human body?

What would it take ? ........time.

If you have Variation

........................ Selection

........................... and Heredity

................................... you MUST get Evolution

reply to post by soleprobe


angels and god are the same species! if we had a monstrous ship and went to another planet me and u know that everyone on that ship is all the same but some of us are richer and mor epowerful then others but we land on a planet!

we realise we need cities and what not people to grow and cultivate this planet but we dont have to ourselves we find through studying the planet there is a life form evolving into an intelligent species...no time to sit around and wait on nature we'll jus make a hybrid between us and it

we'll teach it to do what we want we'll be gods to it it'll worship us! but whoever is in control of us will be god and the rest will be angels!

but in all actuality god and angels are the same species none any better then the other except in qualities! but the creation wont know any better

you see how that works them angels or watchers if they were divine beings created by a sky daddy they woudlnt have been able to have sex or procreate!

you know why they wanted to have sex with the daughters of men? b/c there were about 600 of these aliens mass majority was male and like men in prison even the ugly lunch lady starts lookin good so when man began to multiply they saw the daughters of men and they were beautiful...need i say more

but dio isnt talking about the nephilim hes talking about enki/ea,ra/marduk,thoth speaking of which incase u start an arguement i'll cut the head off right here about thoth and them
the white man with the beard who helped build pyramids over here in americas was speculated to be thoth incase u brought up how they are perceived in the hieroglyphs..

they've said that the gods didnt let man 100% depict the way they actually looked in hierglyphs but u get a real good idea on the sumerian tablets

reply to post by edmc^2


Sorry to skip straight to the end without reading everyones posts ... I am sure there are a lot of real interesting posts ... because we really haven't talked about this subject enough ...

I actually had a extremely elegant and poetic argument set and ready to deliver before I realised that I would either be preaching to the converted or someone with their fingers in their ears.

So I ask this.

Why do theist find the prospect of a god so amazing?

I actually find it rather bland. Simply ... it lacks imagination.

Now, the thought that this could all be an accident that should never of happened but did anyway is one that I find extremely compelling.

Or the thought that it all just exists and as Always existed is another that makes the heart race and the brain tick.

There is a point of view taken by theists about people who don't worship a god that I have always considered to be both arrogant and ignorant.

That is:

That "atheists" do not find anything special about the natural world.

That non-believers view creation (in a non-faith based sense) in some sort of grey, accountant like perspective.

That because there is a belief (a non-faith based one) that this is all an accident or a Natural Process that it, somehow, takes away from the awe non-believers feel when they view the place in which we exists.

Let me tell you now ... every single day my mouth is left hanging open in utter amazement at what is going on around me.

reply to post by metalholic


The Watchers came from the invisible spirit realm into the material and took on their corresponding material form and appearance with the addition of the plumbing necessary for digestion of matter and breeding. And like most all other flesh, decided to make full use of the additional plumbing.

The debate between Creation and Evolution is one that long, and most of us will be long dead by the time it is finished.
The question posed is one where the person has designed the answers to reach one conclusion, however what I do not find is very fair. However the evidence I have to support evolution is based off of three studies that have been done, which should give you pause to think.
The first part is the study of the human heart. It is a 4 chambered heart that does all sorts of things, including moving the blood about and allows for us to be warm blooded. But there is a percentage of the population that has a hole in one of the walls, a heart murmmer. (Keep this in mind)
Every mamal that is on the earth, all have a 4 chambered heart, and are similar in design, primates and pigs have hearts that are identical to the human heart with very little variation. But go down the tree of life and you get to lizards and turtles. They have a three chambered heart, and based off of studies that are conducted, it has been discovered that the very nature of the repitles heard, turtles and lizards, for finding cures for cognital heart disease.
Now the next 2 points of evidence goes to the human genome project and the studies on human genetics. Scientific eve and Scientific adam were seperated by years, and did not exist at the same time, but all males have a commen ancestor and all humans can trace their genetics back to Eve a bit further back in the years. They have also discovered in the process of studying the genetic factors of living humans, they can pinpoint where a persons earliest ancestors originated from and following the line back from there. Evolution at its finest, not creation.

reply to post by soleprobe


the watchers are the watchers b/c they were in control of imports and exports that came and gone from earth amongst the aliens! they are also the aliens that in later mythology became the titans but in all actuality it was a rebellion b/c the alien that lead it his father was defeated by anu and he seeked revenge against anu and his sons enlil and enki

he felt he had the right to the throne since his father was betrayed by anu who got the throne so he rebelled

the actual truth about the hybrid children was that enlil was mad that the gods were breeding with mankind and he found it disgusting much like people not loking there daughters to breed with black men only instead of race....species!

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by OzWeatherman
[mor]

So OZ are you saying that a simpe pencil requires a maker while the super complex universe with all of its stars and galaxies does not require a maker? Just happen to be?

Hmmm, highly illogic and unscientific don't you think?

ty,
edmc2

Here is your answer.

The complex things do not require a maker because without them there would be no existence.

Existence cannot be explained. It just is. Whether there is a creator or not is irrevelant. Existence does not need a creator. It has to be or else we are not having this conversation.

reply to post by metalholic


The watchers, in all about 200, were under a directive to instruct the inhabitants of the earth in proper living but Semyaza who was the leader convinced the others not to follow that directive and instead took wives of the inhabitants.

They also began to teach the people worthless secrets. Because their genes were extremely powerful they gave birth to offspring that were mutant giants. They also began mixing their powerful genes with many creatures such as birds, reptiles creating huge super intelligent monsters of which today we call dinosaurs.

These mutant creatures warred and ate each other. There was a mass amount of blood that was being shed on the earth and every vile thing one could imagine was being committed. These watchers ruined the entire earth.

reply to post by soleprobe


in all honesty how about we move this discussion to a more suitable thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

please copy and paste your last reply here where it's more suitable!

this thread is dead!

reply to post by soleprobe


i done it for u my reply is in the other thread!

Man did not create the pencil. But he did make it.

Originally posted by yadda333

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by OzWeatherman
[mor]

So OZ are you saying that a simpe pencil requires a maker while the super complex universe with all of its stars and galaxies does not require a maker? Just happen to be?

Hmmm, highly illogic and unscientific don't you think?

ty,
edmc2

Here is your answer.

The complex things do not require a maker because without them there would be no existence.

Existence cannot be explained. It just is. Whether there is a creator or not is irrevelant. Existence does not need a creator. It has to be or else we are not having this conversation.

Thanks yadda3333 for a thought provoking reply.

Let me please think about this for a moment:

"The complex things do not require a maker because without them there would be no existence."

This is a new thinking to me. Can you provide a mathematical and scientific proof of this or is it based on "faith"?

If as you say "Existence cannot be explained. It just is." then why do evolutonist keep saying that evolution is what got us here?

If you say "Existence does not need a creator", then was there a guiding force to start the existence?

Or is it as the way evolutionist believed it that we are a product of chance?

On the other hand I see intelligence and wisdom from the simplest to the most complex forms of life. And from what I know, the more complex an object or a 'thing' the higher the intelligence. Where there's intelligence, there's order and harmony, where there's order there's a law governing it. Where, there's a law, there's a law giver. A law giver posseses the power, wisdom and intelligence to implement that law. Where there's law giver, there's a mind to form the law. The mind can't exist w/o a brain, thus a body. One of which belongs to a spirit being who posses the DYNAMIC ENERGY with the power to bring things about.

So if you say, "Existence cannot be explained. It just is." IMHO it borders on BLIND FAITH.

To me this one makes more sense:

(Heb 3:4) “Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but he that constructed all things is God.”
Even a child can understand it.

Notice the following intellects:

PHYSICS professor Ulrich J. Becker, of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, stated when commenting on the existence of God:

“How can I exist without a creator? I am not aware of any compelling answer ever given.”

Did this contradict his scientific views? The professor’s thought-provoking answer was,

“If you discovered how one wheel in the ‘clock’ turns—you may speculate how the rest move, but you are not entitled to call this scientific and better leave alone the question of who wound up the spring.”

Consider two more examples on this point. When mathematics professor John E. Fornaess, of Princeton University, was asked for his thoughts on the existence of God, he replied:

“I believe that there is a God and that God brings structure to the universe on all levels from elementary particles to living beings to superclusters of galaxies.”

Physics professor Henry Margenau, of Yale University, said that he was convinced that the laws of nature were created by God, adding:

“God created the universe out of nothing in an act which also brought time into existence.” He then noted that in the book The Mystery of Life’s Origin, three scientists explain that a Creator is a plausible explanation for life’s origin. Supporting this view, astronomer Fred Hoyle has stated that believing the first cell originated by chance is like believing that a tornado ripping through a junkyard full of Boeing 747 airplane parts dismembered and in disarray could produce a 747.

To these answers can be added the words of the Bible writer Paul:

“[God’s] invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship.”—Romans 1:20.

ty,
edmc2

To all the ignorant religious people on this thread.....

Why doesnt your god require a creator as well then? Its been asked several times already and every time you pitifull faith warriors let it float on by. So why dont one of you summon some courage and prepare to be devoured.....



[edit on 18-7-2010 by Wertdagf]

reply to post by Wertdagf


My dear friend, what a silly question you ask. They reason they arent answering that question, (which is an excellent one,) is because it isnt formatted in a picture.

Someone needs to do a side by side of God and a pencil, and then they will be able to answer it logically.

reply to post by Wertdagf


i done enlightened them on where everything comes from in the universe! couple pages back...no reply to it either!

supernovas arent something to argue against!

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by yadda333

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by OzWeatherman
[mor]

So OZ are you saying that a simpe pencil requires a maker while the super complex universe with all of its stars and galaxies does not require a maker? Just happen to be?

Hmmm, highly illogic and unscientific don't you think?

ty,
edmc2

Here is your answer.

The complex things do not require a maker because without them there would be no existence.

Existence cannot be explained. It just is. Whether there is a creator or not is irrevelant. Existence does not need a creator. It has to be or else we are not having this conversation.

Thanks yadda3333 for a thought provoking reply.

Let me please think about this for a moment:

"The complex things do not require a maker because without them there would be no existence."

This is a new thinking to me. Can you provide a mathematical and scientific proof of this or is it based on "faith"?

Well, I don't think a mathematical proof is needed to prove existence. I am experiencing existence right now!

If as you say "Existence cannot be explained. It just is." then why do evolutonist keep saying that evolution is what got us here?

If you say "Existence does not need a creator", then was there a guiding force to start the existence?

Or is it as the way evolutionist believed it that we are a product of chance?

Again, I would say that evolution is about observance. All we can do is observe our surroundings, collect data, and then try and piece together answers.

I have personally held bones from earlier species of Homo in my hands and studied them. I have observed the evolution and changes through the fossil record. It's something I can see. Is it 100 percent? No. But it's the best we can do right now.

So if you say, "Existence cannot be explained. It just is." IMHO it borders on BLIND FAITH.

I disagree. I don't have to have faith that I exist because I'm experiencing it right now.

Now, the true nature of existence is the real tricky question!

reply to post by edmc^2


So, let me get this right. Because of the perfection of the human form, (and other things) you believe in an intelligent creator? Basically you are saying that all the working things you see around you, eyes, bodies, etc., show that some intelligence was involved? It could not have just been random?

And if that is your argument, how do you explain these?







Does God just have "unintelligent" days sometimes?

for those that believe god is all righteous and what not here have a look at this...what the authors of the bible didnt want u to know!

15. And they all said, "So be it; so be it," for themselves and their sons for ever throughout their generations till the day of judgment, on which the Lord God shall judge them with a sword and with fire, for all the unclean wickedness of their errors, wherewith they have filled the earth with transgression and uncleanness and fornication and sin.

8. And the chief of the spirits, Mastêmâ, 2 came and said: "Lord, Creator, let some of them remain before me, and let them hearken to my voice, and do all that I shall say unto them; for if some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the power of my will on the sons of men; for these are for corruption and leading astray before my judgment, for great is the wickedness of the sons of men." 9. And He said: "Let the tenth part of them remain before him, and let nine parts descend into the place of condemnation." 3 10. And one of us 4 He commanded that we should teach Noah all their medicines; for He knew that they would not walk in uprightness, nor strive in righteousness.

11. And we did according to all His words: all the malignant evil ones we bound in the place of condemnation, and a tenth part of them we left that they might be subject before Satan 5 on the earth. 12. And we explained to Noah all the medicines of their diseases, together with their seductions, how he might heal them with herbs of the earth. 13. And Noah wrote down all things in a book as we instructed him concerning every kind of medicine. Thus the evil spirits were precluded from (hurting) the sons of Noah.

14. And he gave all that he had written to Shem, his eldest son; for he loved him exceedingly above all his sons. 15. And Noah slept with his fathers, and was buried on Mount Lûbâr in the land of Ararat. 16. Nine hundred and fifty years he completed in his life, nineteen jubilees and two

1659 A.M.
weeks and five years. 17. And in his life on earth he excelled the children of men save Enoch because of the righteousness, wherein he was perfect. For Enoch's office was ordained for a testimony to the generations of the world, 1 so that he should recount all the deeds of generation unto generation, till the day of judgment.

www.sacred-texts.com...

reply to post by metalholic


so god gave evil to satan in order to corrupt man...yeah go back and re read!

WHO WAS TALKING ABOUT A PERFECT GOD THEN????

[edit on 18-7-2010 by metalholic]

Originally posted by Wertdagf
To all the ignorant religious people on this thread.....

Why doesnt your god require a creator as well then? Its been asked several times already and every time you pitifull faith warriors let it float on by. So why dont one of you summon some courage and prepare to be devoured.....



[edit on 18-7-2010 by Wertdagf]

What kind of answer are you looking for?

For if I say God has no beginning and no end then you will say what?

On the other hand if i say God was created by someone higher than him, then the next obvious question will be who created the higher being, then who created the one higher than the higher....on and on.

A very illogic reasoning imho.

So the only answer is He always existed.
Is this scientific?

Consider this:
In science and mathemathics we have this concept called "infinity'.

We can imagine infinite space, and as far as astronomers can tell, the universe may be infinite, boundless. The farther their telescopes enable them to see, the more galaxies they behold.

Then, going in the other direction, into the infinitesimally small, physicists still cannot find the ultimate particle. When the atom was discovered, it appeared simple: The atom was the indivisible particle, scientists thought. Experiments with the atom, however, have shown their theory to be a fallacy. The list of particles, or supposed particles, making up the atom has grown quite long, and the end is not yet.

With this same line of logic, can we not, then, conceive of a God who had no beginning—who existed forever?

This is what he declares of himself. (Deuteronomy 32:40; Romans 16:26) If we accept this claim from God, we can believe that he could infuse life into persons who obey him, and could sustain that life forever.

Consider another concept: E = mc2. This equation says that the amount of energy released when an atom is split equals the loss of its mass times the speed of light squared.

According to this formula also, energy can be transformed into matter. And based on scientific finding energy (light) was/is always present.
Who posses this energy?

(Isa 40:26) ““Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.”


Another side of this formula is the Einstein’s special theory of relativity, published in June 1905, disagreed with a fundamental belief of scientists such as Isaac Newton—that the measurement of time is a constant throughout the universe. The implications of Einstein’s now generally accepted theory seem quite bizarre.

For example, imagine that you and a friend perfectly synchronize your watches. Your friend then flies around the world, while you stay at home. When he returns, the time displayed by his watch will lag a fraction behind the time shown on your watch. From your perspective, time slowed down for your traveling friend. The difference is, of course, infinitesimal at human speeds. However, when approaching the speed of light, not only does time slow down significantly but objects also become smaller and their mass increases. Einstein’s theory maintained that the speed of light, not time, is constant across the universe.

Yet we believe this concept.

Consider this too: According to current estimates, normal matter accounts for about 4 percent of the mass of the universe. The two big unknowns—dark matter and dark energy—appear to make up the balance. Thus, about 95 percent of the universe remains a complete mystery!
Do you believe they exist? Can you even explain them or know what they are and where tehy come from?

Then Einstein said:

“It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscience life perpetuating itself through all eternity; to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe, which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the INTELLIGENCE MANIFEST IN NATURE.”—What Has Religion Done for Mankind?, p. 23.[/qoute]

As bright as you are, do you disagree with Einstein?

I don't.

ty,
edmc2