Mosque At Ground Zero

Im watching a story about this on cnn as i type this, What does ATS think of this? I personally dont think anything of it but thats only because I dont believe muslims did 9/11. So Opinions? I apologize if this is already talked about or if its in the wrong spot.

[edit on 14-7-2010 by reesie45]

even if muslims did it, and i think its pretty obvious they did (who they were working for is a whole nother story) i still dont think anything of it, and if you do your an islamophobic christian supremicist. big deal, the building is gone, the people are dead, and more have died from it. its not the shrine to the dead and our great american imperial wars that the media and government wants it to be. building a mosque nearby means absolutely nothing to me. if the towers were still there, nobody would care. whats the difference?

[edit on 14-7-2010 by TheCoffinman]

reply to post by reesie45


I would like to get some capital money together and have a BBQ joint next door that sold nothing but pork products.

I'd send the neighbors smoked hams for breakfast, and ribs for lunch.

I'd be very neighborly to the dirt bags.

@Coffinman,

You say all those things like its a bad thing. Would you care for a little Mettwurst?

Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by reesie45

 

I would like to get some capital money together and have a BBQ joint next door that sold nothing but pork products.

I'd send the neighbors smoked hams for breakfast, and ribs for lunch.

I'd be very neighborly to the dirt bags.

@Coffinman,

You say all those things like its a bad thing. Would you care for a little Mettwurst?

LOL Thats awesome. Thanks for the input. Then they would have a reason to attack.

reply to post by felonius


Seems a bit "extremist" of you eh? Regardless, I will support your right to BBQ as much tasty pork as you want much as I will support thier right to freedom of religion.

Extremist be they Islamic, Christian, Jewish, race et al are all a danger IMHO

(I wrote this as a reply to this thread but it was closed and suggested to post in an existing thread.) Your thread may be closed since they did so with the aforementioned one. I already posted this in an older/existing thread but am posting it here too.

Welcome to America. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free". Free, freedom of religion that's constitutionally guaranteed as an American.

You want to put a religious place of worship near the place where people deliberately crashed airplanes into a symbol of America while killing thousands? For a moment let's believe the OS of 9/11 that 19 al-Qaeda terrorists of the Islamic faith orchestrated and implemented the events of that tradic day. Should Americans, even feeling a wound that hasn't healed, being a truly multiculteralist society, actually hold the beliefs of a small number of radicals representative of the entire one and a half billion people of the religion? For pespective, I was raised Roman Catholic although have been in a religous state of limbo for a number of years.

Let me sidestep for a moment to atempt an analogy of sorts . Most people will agree that illegal immigration should not be tolerated for a variety of reasons. . But as soon as Arizona tries to enforce existing laws people become "up in arms" over racial profiling. I'm not really sure what the problem is. If you shouldn't be here, you shouldn't be here and if there's an opportunity to get caught it should be taken advantage of, end of story. For the record, I'm American, both sides of my family came here from Europe, they learned the language and they became legal Americans.

People want to give freedom of religion where they feel safe that freedom should be granted in the same way people want to stop illegal immigration but only in the way they feel it's acceptable to do so? I really don't understand the concept of either of these but it seems to be the way some people think and feel.

My opinion on the topic at hand is that they should be able to build their mosque at the location in question. Either that or I tend to question if this is really America. Home of the free, home of the brave? Stereotyping never seems to be a good thing to do and only creates animosity by doing so.

It makes no difference to me if a mosque is built near the site of the former World Trade Center. I, do, however, enjoy the beauty of many mosqus I have seen. I hope they design and build a beautiful one, instead of like the mosque I have seen in Lexington, KY. That one was built so as to not bring attention to it. A rather bland building in my opinion and certainly not worthy of the great history of Islamic architecture.

Actually, I am more concerned that A Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses has been built about 2 miles from me. Yee gads!!! Not only is it an ugly building, it means more of those critters who belong to the congregation will be out and about.

If the mosque planned to be built near ground zero approaches anything near the beauty of the Taj Mahal, I just might visit NYC again.

I am for it.

Every holy faith deserves a spot to preach. The tower they are planning's purpose is to show a sign of solidarity with not only The NYC Metro Area but with the WTC and the 3,122 people killed on 9/11 as well.

Those who continually believe that Islam is responsible for 9/11 seriously needs to get their heads examined. Islam is just the latest scapegoat in a long line of scapegoats whereas it is far to easy to blame it on others then to take a look at yourself (in this case our inability to accept the obvious even when it is right in front of us clear as day).

Islam became the new scapegoat when the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgednered, Intersexed community finally had enough of being the old scapegoat.

The history of scapegoats :

1830 - 1870 - Women
1870 - 1910 - Hispanics
1910 - 1950 - African Americans
1950 - 1990 - GLBTI People
1980 - present - Arabs

It is to easy to blame a problem on someone else then it is to look inside ourselves to reveal who the real problems are. Failure to accept that basic principle means we all are guilty and complacent.

[edit on 15-7-2010 by TheImmaculateD1]

reply to post by felonius


That's probably one of the most hateful things I've ever seen on ATS. It reeks of ignorance and flies in the face of all this country stands for. Tolerance of religion if it's yours, right? They've really done a number on you with this Muslim thing, haven't they? Pity.

Everyone with half a brain knows the symbolism of this 100 million dollar mosque monument. Building a mosque at/near ground zero is the equivalent of hoisting a victory flag. That is the point of both the money spent and the "symbolic" name of it.

Do you know the details?

Question: Why do they call this the Córdoba house?

Answer: It is named after the first mosque built by Muslims in Spain as a triumph for victory over Spain.

A mosque at Ground Zero is something intelligent people can dispute honestly and in good faith. But honesty is essential, and it would be dishonest to dismiss the implications of proposing to name it Cordoba House.

“Cordoba,” in Islamic symbolic terms, means Islamic rule in the West. It does not mean “coexistence,” unless coexistence is interpreted as referring to Islamic rule. Pamela Geller at Atlas Shrugs cites the article (original in Arabic) published by Iraqi-American Khudhayr Taher on 18 May, in which Taher explains the following: We must note that a hostile and provocative name [Cordoba] has been chosen for this mosque…Choosing the name ‘Cordoba House’ for the mosque to be constructed in New York was not coincidental or random and innocent. It bears within it significance and dreams of expansion and invasion [into the territory] of the other, [while] striving to change his religion and to subjugate him…

lonestartimes.com...

My first question on hearing this a couple of weeks ago was whether Americans are completely ignorant of history.

Cordoba was, of course, the seat of the caliphate established in what is now modern Spain after the Islamic invasion from North Africa in the 8th century A.D. The medieval occupation of Spain – “al-Andalus” – is considered by Islamic theorists to have been an inevitable step in the manifest destiny of Islam, and its eventual reversal through the lengthy European “Reconquista” a tragic but temporary triumph of the infidels. The great mosque at Cordoba was built on the foundation of a Christian cathedral, and when Europeans retook Cordoba in the 13th century they turned the magnificent mosque back into a cathedral.

But there is also no question that the mosque at Cordoba represents a history of conquest and reconquest that, from the perspective of Islamists, is at an unfinished stage as of today. The caliphate of Cordoba was the geographic high point of Umayyad Muslim rule – that is, of the original caliphate that succeeded Mohammed – on European territory. It represents a glory that Islamists intend to restore. Its eventual loss to the Europeans represents, equally, an evil reversal, imposed by infidels, that requires redress.

“Cordoba,” in Islamic symbolic terms, means Islamic rule in the West. It does not mean “coexistence,” unless coexistence is interpreted as referring to Islamic rule. Pamela Geller at Atlas Shrugs cites the article (original in Arabic) published by Iraqi-American Khudhayr Taher on 18 May, in which Taher explains the following: We must note that a hostile and provocative name [Cordoba] has been chosen for this mosque…Choosing the name ‘Cordoba House’ for the mosque to be constructed in New York was not coincidental or random and innocent. It bears within it significance and dreams of expansion and invasion [into the territory] of the other, [while] striving to change his religion and to subjugate him…

It used to not even be a stretch for reasonably well educated Westerners to recognize the place of Spain and Cordoba in the history of the West and Islam. Many of today’s younger adults, however, have learned nothing about the Mediterranean before 1492 except that the Muslim period in Spain was a flowering of science, art, and culture. There was a great deal to admire in the accomplishments of the Muslim Cordobans, but they did, in fact, invade and conquer Spain, sell its inhabitants into slavery, provide a base for slaver raids into other parts of Europe, and rule by the sword in much of the caliphate.

“Cordoba” is not a name that evokes peaceful coexistence of Islam and the West.

A mosque at Ground Zero is something intelligent people can dispute honestly and in good faith. But honesty is essential, and it would be dishonest to dismiss the implications of proposing to name it Cordoba House.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
I am for it.

Every holy faith deserves a spot to preach. The tower they are planning's purpose is to show a sign of solidarity with not only The NYC Metro Area but with the WTC as well.

Those who continually believe that Islam is responsible for 9/11 seriously needs to get their heads examined. Islam is just the latest scapegoat in a long line of scapegoats whereas it is far to easy to blame it on others then to take a look at yourself (in this case our inability to accept the obvious even when it is right in front of us clear as day).

Islam became the new scapegoat when the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgednered, Intersexed community finally had enough of being the old scapegoat.

The history of scapegoats :

1830 - 1870 - Women
1870 - 1910 - Hispanics
1910 - 1950 - African Americans
1950 - 1990 - GLBTI People
1980 - present - Arabs
1992- Present - Serbs

It is to easy to blame a problem on someone else then it is to look inside ourselves to reveal who the real problems are. Failure to accept that basic principle means we all are guilty and complacent.

there i think i fixed it up a bit.

[edit on 14-7-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

Also,

Forget the US Constitution, We can have Sharia Law in America! (note, this is the guy representing this Cordoba House)

www.liveleak.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

“In forming a decision regarding Cordoba House one would not only want to know the views of Mr. Feisal Abdul Rauf, the founder of Cordoba Initiative, but of the Imam.

The Imam, according to the link provided below, wrote a book originally titled What's Right With Islam, later called, What's Right With America, and still later in 2007 retitled for distribution in the Arab countries:

" From The World Trade Center Rubble, Islamic Da'wah, Post 9/11"

From the book, according to this link, "The American political structure is Shariah compliant", and, "For America to score higher on the Islamic or Sharia compliant scale, America would need to do two things: invite the voices of all religions to join the dialog in shaping the nations practical (secular?) life and allow religious communities more leeway to judge among themselves, according to their own laws"

Is that a call to a theocratic America?

Know these facts and then come back and say what a "great idea" this is....



(.........crickets.........)



[edit on 14-7-2010 by infolurker]

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
It is to easy to blame a problem on someone else then it is to look inside ourselves to reveal who the real problems are. Failure to accept that basic principle means we all are guilty and complacent.

True, so very true. And it can relate to so many other things also. I actually just quoted you in an IM in a totally unrelated topic. Wise words!

I thought ground zero was a term used for a nuclear detonation ,have i missed something?Mosque,church,bar, whats the difference you go in pay your money,talk sh#t and go home .

[edit on 14-7-2010 by 12voltz]

I have no problem with it, it's just a mosque.

While we're at it, let's build a Hitler statue in Jerusalem. How about a Catholic Church in Mecca? Maybe we should put the Bush Presidential Library in downtown Baghdad. Oh, I know, a statue of Ho Chi Minh at the Vietnam War Memorial.

No big deal, you guys wouldn't mind that right?

I am against it. I don't care what the religion is, and I would be against ANY religious institution being put there. This is a sacred piece of land for Americans. There are plenty of other spots, abandoned buildings and churches (that can be converted into a mosque). They don't NEED to put one there. In my eyes, it's a slap in the face and a reason for them to laugh at us for letting it happen.

Whoever approved this should be fired. I didn't watch those terrorists fly 2 planes into the World Trade Center, 1 into the Pentagon and 1 into a field in Pennsylvania only to have them build their sanctuary on the same grounds they destroyed.

Instead of worrying about this, how about we demand to know why the memorials have not been built there yet? Why have the other towers not been rebuilt? They have been fighting over plans for years, yet as quick as fingers can snap, they approve a mosque. Talk about an insult to the American people.


[edit on 15-7-2010 by DragonFire1024]

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
I am for it.

Every holy faith deserves a spot to preach. The tower they are planning's purpose is to show a sign of solidarity with not only The NYC Metro Area but with the WTC as well.

I don't think I can agree with you. I find a very high lack of sensitivity to the whole situation. I see many preach that we need to be sensitive to the Muslin culture, and I agree, but I think it should be a two way street.

I just wonder if a extremist Christian group blew up some Muslin icon in the middle east, killing many, and then another Christian group decided to build a Church on the spot. I would lean towards they would be killed as they laid the first brick….hehe

Originally posted by felonius

I'd be very neighborly to the dirt bags.

Did you really just call the whole of the Islamic religion dirt bags? Really? Surely you were just talking about the people who pulled of 9/11 right?

I sure hope so because I would hate to see that kind of prejudice. 99.99% of people who practice that religion are amazing wonderful, kind people.

If you are going to stereo type that many people, I might as well just say all Christians are pedophiles.... It would make just as much sense, blaming a whole group for the actions of a few.

Prejudice, it does not look good on anyone.

That said, I say go ahead and build the mosque! I am disturbed to have seen on the news a person saying " They don't allow freedom of religion in their country so why should we let them practice in ours?"

That was not only one of the most ignorant statements I have seen in a long time, it was also one of the most ludicrous. If Thomas Jefferson had heard that he would have slapped that person for saying that!

For god sake, freedom of religion is a HUGE part of why The US was even created to begin with! SO for anyone to suggest that we ban certain religions is just plain un-American, not to mention unconstitutional.

That said, I am not at all against the mosque being built where it is. I am surprised they want it built there. I mean, surely who ever picked that site must have known the controversy that would take place....

Maybe it is an attempt to show the ignorant that most of the Islamic people are wonderful people? I don't know. But the bottom line is this. This is the United States and it is a free country where people have the right to practice the religion of their choice, where they like.

I say let them build it. To anyone who has a problem with it being built because of the religion involved I say this. It is 2010, hell in half a year it will be 2011. It is time to let go of your prejudice and hate already.... Just let go of your irrational fears.

They are people just like you and I, and you know what? We all bleed the same color. So get over it.

[edit on 15-7-2010 by gimme_some_truth]

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


"Get over it" you say. So we are supposed to get over 9/11? Not care anymore? Forget about the fact that they cannot agree on a memorial or build new towers but then turn around and agree to a mosque? That is ridiculous. Tell the families and friends of the 3,000 people who died that day to "get over it."

[edit on 15-7-2010 by DragonFire1024]

Originally posted by DragonFire1024
This is a sacred piece of land for Americans. There are plenty of other spots, abandoned buildings and churches (that can be converted into a mosque). They don't NEED to put one there.

Whoever approved this should be fired. I didn't watch those terrorists fly 2 planes into the World Trade Center, 1 into the Pentagon and 1 into a field in Pennsylvania only to have them build their sanctuary on the same grounds they destroyed.
[edit on 15-7-2010 by DragonFire1024]

You do realize that it's not actually ON the site of ground zero, correct? It's a few blocks away in an abandoned building which you appeared to say would be okay.