God Particle has been found!!!

just to make it clear


GOD PARTICLE doesnt have anything to do with any religion ok

thank you

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

That is funny if Fermi lab discovered it.

CERN just wasted a bunch of money.

A little on the funny side (hahaha)... But... there is no wasting "money" when it comes to testing theories that explain the world we live in.

The LHC wasn't just constructed to find the Higgs boson. It's also involved in detecting dark matter & dark energy. Answering questions about antimatter. Additional questions about quarks and the basic building blocks of matter. Yada yada.

Tevatron will eventually retire and LHC will be the fulll time workhorse.

reply to post by Amagnon


Nope. They are learning and discovering we are right. If this rumor is true, and new articles say it is, then we can "see" mass. And as a rule, if you can see it, you can affect it. And once we can affect it, the miserable bondages of this world will be removed and the stars will be opened to us as we will be able to affect mass, and therefore FTL travel.

reply to post by Faiol


In many ways it does.

We do not understand why gravity was turned off at the birth of the universe. It was. It's the only way spacial expansion accelerated beyond the force of gravity. In other words, it is possible someone "turned on" mass and gravity.

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91


not you again, just stop with it ... I just said, the name doesnt have anything to do with religion


if you want to associate the EFFECTS of god particle with religion, you can do it, you know why? psychopaths can associate the bible and other stuff with their work, because everything is just about interpretation ... I can interpret your post as a troll job ... others may not

you got it right?

reply to post by Faiol


Didn't say it had to be God. Maybe some aliens in the future went back and activated gravity in a time infinite loop paradox.

I don't claim to know.

What is fact is that the universe could not exist unless gravity was turned off for a few hours of the universe' beginning.

The God particle, if proven to exist, shows that a particle was "added" to allow mass and gravity. Now how it added can be anything from an experiment gone ary from a far off universe affecting this one to a time traveling raptor Jesus.

Now as I recall you've never actually beaten me in such discussions. So I would not advice trying again given our track record.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
That is funny if Fermi lab discovered it.

CERN just wasted a bunch of money.

this isn't true. the point isn't to simply "discover" the god particle or who can do it first. the point is to test it, learn it, experiment on it etc. so even if one lab discovered it, the other lab can then continue with the testing after they find a way to repeat their results.

Originally posted by Gorman91
We do not understand why gravity was turned off at the birth of the universe. It was. It's the only way spacial expansion accelerated beyond the force of gravity. In other words, it is possible someone "turned on" mass and gravity.

I don't think it was turned off. But rather...

The theory of the infinitely dense point in space/time theory.

If all matter is condensed into a single point in space/time. Perhaps eventually the mass became too great for the gravity to overcome and it imploded more energy than gravity could contain.

Or maybe one extra particle of matter popped into existence and burst the bubble.

Just saying they don't know the initial circumstances of the universe.

Just as they now theorize super novas could simply just cease to exist rather than explode. So the universe could have simply come into being without an explosion.

It's all theoretical right now, and even the discovery of the Higgs Boson won't change that.

reply to post by mryanbrown


The universe did not explode. It expanded.

And in this case, it would not be gravity that held the pre-bang universe together. It would be that the volume of space was 0, or something infinity close to 0. There simply was no universe for anything to exist in. Considering that space time can be twisted and turned in almost infinite ways, energy could easily exist in a twirled up space time zone that has pretty much no volume.

The reason for the expanse is not known, but current math speculates on a kind of "dominoes" situation where one universe's death causes another to be created, in a series of big crunches and expansions. This is like a universe creating machine.

After the initial expanse, energy filled the volume. Pure energy. No "space vacuum" yet. Some small time later, all the energy became mass, most probably due to the immense pressure of the universe's size. As the universe expanded, what should have happened is that the mass, clumped all together with dark matter and dark energy and gravity, should have fallen into a singularity. No expansion rate of the universe could stop that. The rate of compressing space time near this singularity would have exceeded the rate of expansion. The only way to get around that is outside intervention somehow. You don't have to say God, but something did it. Gravity had to be off for these early molecules and elements. Gravity had to be off until the rate of expansion exceeded the ability for gravity to pull it all together. Once this expansion was enough to create distance between these early masses, gravity was turned on, and the universe began to form int he way we see it today.

Discovering the higgs allows us to learn why mass was not affected by gravity at this early point in the universe, or why mass came to exist at all anyway, as it should have existed already at the birth of the universe. But then we'd all be one big molecule held together by an enormous higgs field. We are literally talking about a time span of a few hours.

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by mryanbrown


Ooo think of it like this.

A 10-dimensional combination lock. The particles are all floating out of observable reality. Just chugging around in the multiverse.

Like playing with a Rubik's Cube, not knowing how to solve it. Just turning here and there.

Then one "day" they align into a position that's irreversible. The particles are now stuck in an observable position.

*poof* just popped into reality by chance. No Explosion. Always present, just one day in sync.

[edit on 13-7-2010 by mryanbrown]

Hate to rain on yer thread, but the discovery claims are false.

Higgs Boson Discovery Rumor Is False

Like the particle itself, the story only exists in the minds of bored physicists.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by Doc Velocity


DAMN.

I really hoped it was real.

Well who knows. It's just a rumor and they don't comment. Let them do the math first.

I feel it is an abuse of the English language to call it a god particle. The definition is harmful to the laymen when articulating the true nature of what we are observing. I would even go as far as saying that it could detract from an experience that one might associate with divine intelligence. It is nothing more then a PR stunt to maintain public interest.

Granting god's creation isn't restricted to the 3ed dimension, and doesn't think as empirically as we do.

What I don't understand is, if this is the be all end all for calculating the nature that god gave us, or what ever the heck the god connotation represents, then what does this mean for string theory? String theory posits that subatomic groupings within an atom are not 0 dimensional objects, but rather are 1 dimensional oscillating lines. The interaction caused by these vibrating strings, give the observed particles their charge, mass and spin, and allow for the 3rd dimensional experience.

Modern string theory, or super-string theory accounts for the BOSONIC string, but it also requires the existence of several extra, unobservable, dimensions to the universe, in addition to the usual three spatial dimensions (height, width, and length)

If we are so crazy as to calculate the 4th dimension of time, what does this mean in relation to sub-atomic particles?

Like our empirical super string theory, would we then be observing "SUPER GOD PARTICLES!"? hehe

More so, M-theory the extension of string theory has identified 11 dimensions. Perhaps we can find some "Super Duper God Particles!"

Religion masquerading as science, and science masquerading as religion. Its all the same. Its a Bosonic string, not a god particle.

reply to post by kykweer



It's called the God particle because; some “believe” (these are theories mind you) that they are uncovering the ultimate structure of matter and the fundamental particles which build it.
These particles combine to build all atoms, molecules, stars and galaxies. “The Universe”

So if they could find the absolute first particle it would be the “God” particle. The creator of everything.

As for the title, yeah I thought it a little exaggerated.

From The Cosmic Onion, Quarks and the nature of the Universe, by Frank Close

“Discoveries in the last few years have lead to a belief that the answers to these questions are close at hand or might have already been found. What is creating so much excitement is that some of these new insights suggest that we may also have uncovered a glimpse of the birth of the universe and have identified the processes that fashioned it.”

Again that would reference “God”, birth of the universe.
One doesn’t have to believe in God nor be mocking religion to use a common term or phrase that most of the world understands its connotation.

That quote is from his book published in 1982.
28 years ago.
So just how close are they today?
As close as they believed in 1982, 28 years ago?

As a largely uneducated layperson interested in this, can someone tell me whether a definitive discovery of the Higgs Boson would invalidate or vindicate any aspects of string duality? Do any string theories replace the Higgs with something else from which to derive mass, or does string duality just suggest another way of describing/explaining what the Higgs is, like it does for other particles?

If the interaction (drag) of the "virtual" Higgs Boson on say, most any sub-atomic quark, causes it to have measurable mass(resting mass), what causes the Higgs Boson, to have mass? Is it the relatively measurable interaction between itself and whatever other particle it is affcting, or does some other yet unknown force or particle give the Higgs mass?

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Good find Doc Velocity.

I couldn't believe is such rubbish. The science behind the Higgs Boson is total junk.

In the next few years the theories about particles is going to take a new twist and the real knowledge about particles that can be factually reproduced anywhere in the world will enlighten everyone, and it won't be coming from any collider.

reply to post by RussianScientists


Maybe I'm just crazy, but I think I trust a few Billion dollars worth of a facility and experts who have facts over your opinion

So just how close are they today?
As close as they believed in 1982, 28 years ago?

Exactly. And it has been 50 years to prove fusion feasible. And they are just as close as in the beginning.

The illusion of progress here disguises the progress of super weapons. I predicted years ago the Higgs does not exist, and my prediction stands solid into perpetuity.

Mass is electromagnetic impedance. Now give me $20 billion and I'll prove it too.

reply to post by Matyas


I didn't know you could weigh electromagnetic impedance.

Does this kill string theory? What theories will this file 13?

Originally posted by MojosGhost
if this is the be all end all for calculating the nature that god gave us, or what ever the heck the god connotation represents, then what does this mean for string theory?

In an attempt to find an answer to your question (which I wanted to know the answer to as well,) I inadvertently found an answer to my own as well! Thank-you!

Most important, string theory seems to require our world to have a property called supersymmetry. And a supersymmetric Standard Model with string theory boundary conditions has Higgs bosons and explains their properties. Whereas the mass of the Higgs boson cannot be calculated in the Standard Model, in the supersymmetric Standard Model the mass can be calculated approximately to be 90¿40 GeV, a range that contains the likely discovered value.

Finding a Higgs boson thus strongly supports the supersymmetric Standard Model, which in turn supports the notion that string theory is indeed the right approach to nature.

Source: Scientific American: "How does the Higgs boson affect string theory?"