Why does God allow the existance of people who go to hell?

Christianity, the sect or religion.

Christians, those who have total faith or belief in that sect or religion.

In the end, it is still people who kill people, not the religion itself. They just kill in the name of that religion.

reply to post by adjensen

One more time...

*sigh* Allow me to copy and paste from previous replies.

Through the promotion of acts of violence.

The Judaic-Christian mythology is historically the most violent and uneducated religion the world has seen.

Most of the Judaic-Christian mythology can be traced to older mythologies and were used to win over the pagans of early Judaic-Christianity.

Spanish Inquisition? Done by people, who believed (wrongly) that they were supposed to behave that way. Persecution of scientists because they put forth views of reality considered blasphemous? Done by people, who believed (wrongly) that they were supposed to behave that way. Etc, etc, etc.

On what grounds? Yes... the Judaic-Christian mythology and it's doctrine. The religion itself has been the sole causation of promoting these forms of violence and hate crimes against mankind.

admit that neither the religion nor all of its followers kill, steal and plagiarize, and you're done.

The religion itself promotes violence, it's in it's doctrine and I refuse to retract that statement on grounds that it's doctrine has historically been used to promote violent acts. Nor have I said all of it's followers, so please don't stick words in my mouth, especially when the posts are readable by everyone. Doing such just makes you look rather uneducated and only furthers validate the stereotype that Judaic-Christian mythology believers are uneducated.

I guarantee you that not all Christians who lived in the time of the Spanish Inquisition thought that it was such a good idea.

Did I say all? What aspect of reading the English language are you having problems with? Do you normally read what you want out of others posts?

reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO

OP,
Great question!!!! I am a Christian and this was one of the questions that ultimately led me to distancing myself from the Pastors and Churches I used to go to and know.

I am now a Christian Mystic (nondualist) and practice my Path in mostly Solitude ala the Hermits.

I used to say that the Bible says we are to be fruitful and Multiply. But for me its not worth the risk of having kids knowing that there is still a chance that they can choose not to be saved and for go to hell for all of eternity.

So I said, "Screw it, hell for eternity is not worth risk to have children at all" and so I have made the decision to never have children.

Of course we can also look at it like this: God's perspective!!!

If I was God and realized that my creations only have the one life, the one chance to choose Jesus and be saved, and I knew that the majority would not go down this route and would end up in eternal hell, then it would not be worth the risk of that to create human beings. It would be to have a few who love me, at the cost of probably trillions who dont and suffer eternal.

Plus this life is biased!!! Imagine a child who is born into Judaism and his whole life is told Jesus is not the way, and all of his culture, peers, parents, surrounding through all ones life is biased against Jesus and this individual grows old and dies!!!!

I still have yet to find a satisfactory "Christian based" answer for this one and I've sat and talked with prominent Pastors and Professor theologian types about it and still all they pretty much come down with is free will.

Well free will doesnt help in a biased upbringing especially when every side says they are correct!!!!

Originally posted by FiatLux
Christianity, the sect or religion.

Christians, those who have total faith or belief in that sect or religion.

In the end, it is still people who kill people, not the religion itself. They just kill in the name of that religion.

They kill in belief of the religion, which makes the religion itself a dangerous thing. Their belief that the religion is correct and that they are doing good by the mythological deity they worship is what causes them to kill without question. For God commands them so and ye shalt not question the lord!

Originally posted by monkeySEEmonkeyDO
I've always questioned why God, who is omni-present, allows the existence of people who will never make the decision to become "saved", and will go to hell.. According to the Bible, we all make our own decisions, and we are responsible for those decisions. But, if God KNOWS our decisions will place us in hell, then why would he allow us to come into existence? How can God "love us all" if God knows we are destined for hell?
What about the people who are born in total seclusion, and never have the chance to even hear about the Bible? Why would they be equally responsible compared to the ones who willfully ignore the Bible?
It all doesn't make sense to me...

Because this story you are referring to was made up by a man.....

Back to the OP, why does God create people who are never able to rationalize beyond myth and still believe in heavens/hells, talking donkeys and serpents, giant boats floating over the mountains with the entire biota of the planet aboard, atonements to cover sins, people walking on the water...yada, yada yada??

I mean please people, tell me it's just a joke that you still believe in these myths, and that according to recent polls, 41% of Americans believe in the soon return of superman (JC)? Wake me up from this dream wherein people won't think.


[edit on 7-7-2010 by whatsup]

reply to post by sirnex


It's amusing that you keep criticizing my education and/or ability to read, when you clearly fail to understand a simple notion. Perhaps you should read the next paragraph slowly or think about it before you starting spouting off.

Christianity, or any religion, or any idea, is incapable of killing anyone, stealing anything, or plagiarizing something. An idea, philosophy or religion cannot manifest itself to act in a physical manner.

Geez, why is that so hard to figure out?

People may interpret, preach, incite or act upon their perception of religion, but that action is attributable to them, not to the religion. You can't shake off responsibility by saying "that's what the Bible says to do." If you do something wrong, that's on you, whether you're being judged by man, or judged by God.

Show me someplace where Jesus said to torture people to change their beliefs, or to imprison scientists who contradict your interpretation of reality.

The fact that someone reads something, interprets it in some fashion, and applies it to do something bad reflects on that person, not on what has been misinterpreted. If I read the Constitution and decide that the right to bear arms means that I have the right to go shoot someone, is that my fault, or the fault of the Constitution?

Originally posted by sirnex

Originally posted by FiatLux
Christianity, the sect or religion.

Christians, those who have total faith or belief in that sect or religion.

In the end, it is still people who kill people, not the religion itself. They just kill in the name of that religion.

They kill in belief of the religion, which makes the religion itself a dangerous thing. Their belief that the religion is correct and that they are doing good by the mythological deity they worship is what causes them to kill without question. For God commands them so and ye shalt not question the lord!

Instability within the persons mind is what makes them kill, not the religion. With your thinking, everyone who kills in this world has to be a Christian. Not everyone kills because of a religion. If the person was of an unstable mind in the beginning, any religion, and I repeat, any religion, could set them off. A twelve eyed horses back side could have told them to kill someone in their mind.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by FiatLux]

reply to post by FiatLux

Instability within the persons mind is what makes them kill, not the religion.

That only works if we assume that all persons who kill are not mentally sound, and we both know that is a crock of sh*t, right?

With your thinking, everyone who kills in this world has to be a Christian.

What an entirely ill thought out statement and devoid of any meaning. I have not said anything of the sort.

Not everyone kills because of a religion.

A person who kills because of their mythology is a person who kills because of their mythology. Your not too bright are you?

If the person was of an unstable mind in the beginning, any religion, and I repeat, any religion, could set them off. A twelve eyed horses back side could have told them to kill someone in their mind.

Again, this requires the assumption that all persons who kill are not mentally sound. Can you justify the assumption that all persons who kill are not mentally sound?

reply to post by adjensen

An idea, philosophy or religion cannot manifest itself to act in a physical manner.

You have no grasp of how things work then do you?

Many ideologies manifest themselves through the promotion of ideas, be they religious or political or hallucinatory trips.

A political ideology can manifest itself with the promotion of national pride, inciting people to join armed forces to protect that ideology.

A mythology can manifest itself with the promotion of doing right by it's deity, be it a moral or immoral act.

To say that ideas have no outlet is utterly naive. Everything first starts as a thought. Before you even posted, you had to think and that thought manifests itself through your actions of typing and posting. Our whole system of morality is arbitrarily chosen based on an agreed upon ideology of what is right and wrong.

reply to post by adjensen

People may interpret, preach, incite or act upon their perception of religion, but that action is attributable to them, not to the religion. You can't shake off responsibility by saying "that's what the Bible says to do." If you do something wrong, that's on you, whether you're being judged by man, or judged by God.

Biblical mythology is clear in it's language on what one can and can not do on everything from stoning a disobedient child to how to treat a slave to who can even be a slave. There is no interpretation in clear concise language.

If I read the Constitution and decide that the right to bear arms means that I have the right to go shoot someone, is that my fault, or the fault of the Constitution?

Your analogy is wrong, you may want to rethink that one!

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by adjensen

 

If I read the Constitution and decide that the right to bear arms means that I have the right to go shoot someone, is that my fault, or the fault of the Constitution?

Your analogy is wrong, you may want to rethink that one!

No it isn't, it's exactly the same thing. Neither the Bible nor the Constitution kill anyone. But people can kill, and use either as their justification for doing something that is judged wrong.

You read the Bible (well, I doubt that you have, but whatever) and you see "kill, kill, kill". I read it and I see "love, love, love". I think that my view of Christianity is a lot closer to Christ's message than yours is. Maybe the difference is that I'm a Christian and you are not.

Don't bother with quoting Deuteronomy or Levitical law... that isn't the context that I view Christianity in.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by adjensen

 

An idea, philosophy or religion cannot manifest itself to act in a physical manner.

You have no grasp of how things work then do you?

A political ideology can manifest itself with the promotion of national pride, inciting people to join armed forces to protect that ideology.

If said political ideology influences person A to join the army, person B to not join the army, and person C to join the opposition, how can you claim that the ideology has resulted in anything, in and of itself? The result is the people's action, as their own personal interpretation, not the ideology in itself. If the person didn't matter, A, B and C would have all joined the army.

Wow, sounds like we're back to the notion of free will, eh?

Tell you what, the next time an idea, religion or ideology kills someone, without the benefit of human involvement, feel free to post it here, and we can all marvel at the new reality.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by adjensen]

reply to post by adjensen

No it isn't, it's exactly the same thing. Neither the Bible nor the Constitution kill anyone. But people can kill, and use either as their justification for doing something that is judged wrong.

Yes, it is wrong. Your analogy assumes interpretation of right to bear arms as meaning right to kill, that right there is your first mistake. Your second mistake is pretending that an interpretation is equal to clear concise language. Biblical mythology contains clear concise language on what one can and can not do where no interpretation is required.

You read the Bible (well, I doubt that you have, but whatever) and you see "kill, kill, kill". I read it and I see "love, love, love". I think that my view of Christianity is a lot closer to Christ's message than yours is. Maybe the difference is that I'm a Christian and you are not.

Don't bother with quoting Deuteronomy or Levitical law... that isn't the context that I view Christianity in.

Both messages are portrayed within biblical mythology.

If said political ideology influences person A to join the army, person B to not join the army, and person C to join the opposition, how can you claim that the ideology has resulted in anything, in and of itself? The result is the people's action, as their own personal interpretation, not the ideology in itself. If the person didn't matter, A, B and C would have all joined the army.

Wow, sounds like we're back to the notion of free will, eh?

Yet you dismiss that in all three cases the ideology has incited a response, be it neutral, for or against the ideology.

Wow, looks like we're learning that true free will doesn't really exist and more about cause and effect!

Tell you what, the next time an idea, religion or ideology kills someone, without the benefit of human involvement, feel free to post it here, and we can all marvel at the new reality.

You're naive, and I don't blame you... You're religious after all.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by adjensen

 

Don't bother with quoting Deuteronomy or Levitical law... that isn't the context that I view Christianity in.

Both messages are portrayed within biblical mythology.

Hooray for that. My belief is that God gave us the Ten Commandments, man gave us all of the add-ons (including the horrific ones that people like you enjoy quoting so much), in that Christ's two great commandments are a reiteration of the ten, but not rules of dietary, cleansing or retribution.

Tell you what, the next time an idea, religion or ideology kills someone, without the benefit of human involvement, feel free to post it here, and we can all marvel at the new reality.

You're naive, and I don't blame you... You're religious after all.

Nice. I'll spare you the return empty insult.

reply to post by adjensen

Hooray for that. My belief is that God gave us the Ten Commandments, man gave us all of the add-ons (including the horrific ones that people like you enjoy quoting so much), in that Christ's two great commandments are a reiteration of the ten, but not rules of dietary, cleansing or retribution.

Am I correct to assume by that statement that you do not believe the biblical mythology or it's doctrine to be the divine infallible word of it's deity?

It's about granting everyone the free will to make their own decisions on how they want to live their life.

Anything else but letting people exercise their own free will would be kinda like tyrannical,contrary to the teachings of most religions.....

Even though most,if not all religions are used for purposes other than righteous ones....

Religion is man-made,therein lie the flaws.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by adjensen

 

Hooray for that. My belief is that God gave us the Ten Commandments, man gave us all of the add-ons (including the horrific ones that people like you enjoy quoting so much), in that Christ's two great commandments are a reiteration of the ten, but not rules of dietary, cleansing or retribution.

Am I correct to assume by that statement that you do not believe the biblical mythology or it's doctrine to be the divine infallible word of it's deity?

As I have stated previously in this thread, no, I am not a fundamentalist.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by adjensen]

reply to post by adjensen


Wonderful, so now we can rightfully conclude that you are of the group that has decided which parts of biblical mythology are to be followed and which parts, that you may not personally agree with, that should not be followed at all.

You have literally nothing to do with biblical mythology unless it is those aspect which you personally agree with. Yo are part of a growing system of belief that has deemed itself above the word of it's deity by dismissing the parts that you feel does not apply to you or the times we live in or any other reason you wish to make up.

I love your kind, I really do. It's almost as bad as being a fundamentalist.

reply to post by sirnex


Thank you for such a quick, thoughtful and complete insight into my character!