Has 9/11 truth had its day ?

Hey weedy...benny here again...


You said "(The marks the wings left on the facade of the Pentagon are visible, in many photos...these photos are NEVER included in the "9/11 conspiracy" websites and blogs)."

I then asked you to show these MANY photos that you mentioned to me and others here who may be interested, but so far you seem to be avoiding this issue....

Given they are NEVER included in the 9/11 conspiracy websites( as you choose to label them...) and I certainly steer clear of sites like 9/11 myths etc, could you be so kind as to back up your statement with some evidence of these MANY photos showing the marks the wings and also therefore the engine marks left on the Pentagon facade???

I looked all over the Net...couldnt see ANY let alone MANY photos, at all...


Thanks.


[edit on 30-7-2010 by benoni]

We can see since my last post that nothing has changed. "Truthers" here have brought up the same recycled claims and assertions we've seen for years.

Where are they going with it? Nowhere.

Eventually, "Truthers" will have to face reality that they failed to make their case, that they have only fooled themselves in believing that "9/11 was an inside job."

Conspiracy theories always come up after major events. The first claim of an "inside job" came up on Usenet on Sept. 12, 2001, barely 12 hours after the event. That claim exploded exponentially within the week. Conspiracy theories started searching for anything that "smelled suspicious" using the earliest, inaccurate, conflicting and confusing media accounts and government speculations. "Connecting the dots" became the pastime du jour.

Never mind that "Truthers" had not a stitch of real evidence to claim an inside job.

Nine years later, "Truthers" only give us the same recycled claims, having moved the goal posts dozens of times as one claim after another fell from it's own contradictions and irrationality.

So "Truthers" are stuck in place. They have never brought to the table any coherent hypothesis. Instead, the evidence of their complete failure and inability to demonstrate their claims surrounds them yet they cannot see it.

The 9/11 "Truth" Movement has steadily deflated leaving its true believers preaching on street corners wondering why humanity never could "see their truth", never looking inward to question why they signed on to a sinking ship.




[edit on 30-7-2010 by jthomas]

The whole thing makes me feel sad

reply to post by benoni


You should look harder. Most everything you need is actually right here on ATS.

THIS POST from 2004! is just one example, and it's part of the best, most definitive thread ever, on ATS, about the Pentagon in particular.

Alas, those who are closed-off, will not see what's presented directly to them, but will instead cling to the fragile fantasy paradigms, for some unknown reasons...

...the majority of others are able to assimilate ALL the discussions, and evaluate them appropriately.

This is where each and every so-called "truther" claim falls apart --- each and every time.

And, what is sad, is that so much effort is put forth to "believe" in the fantasy....again, for some unknown reasons. I am not a psychologist, but there appear to be certain similarities in the phenomenom to other types of obsessive "hoax" beliefs, as well.....

Click here to learn more about this warning.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz



I can only repeat this, again....after reading on other topics, from people who are convinced that they film "morphing UFOs" (when they're actually airplanes at night) to people seeing a "face" on Mars, and claiming that 'of course' NASA and JPL are both 'lying' to everyone, as part of the 'cover-up', by altering photos --- that ties in to the Apollo "hoax" claims, as well....

I am not a psychologist, but there appear to be certain similarities in the phenomenom to other types of obsessive "hoax" beliefs, as well.....

The irrational need to "believe" in a 9/11 'false flag' is puzzling, and damaging.

The 'damage' aspect is why this sort of nonsense should be countered with facts and rationality. It plays into the hands of those who are actually responsible.


~~~
Makes one wonder IF the entire notion of a U.S. Government-led 'false flag' OP was actually started by Muslim radicals, to deflect attention away from them...

**...(this is not a true 'belief', but an example of irrationality, and how it can be manipulated, and is indicative of what's seen in the so-called "truth movement" mindset, in many cases. Pulling a random speculation out of virtual thin air, based on flimsy suppositions, and absent any evidence)...

reply to post by weedwhacker

The 'damage' aspect is why this sort of nonsense should be countered with facts and rationality. It plays into the hands of those who are actually responsible.

Funny coming from you. You have not posted one single fact with source ect, to back up the OS. This is why no one outside of the official Truthers hate club takes any of you seriously.

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

The 'damage' aspect is why this sort of nonsense should be countered with facts and rationality. It plays into the hands of those who are actually responsible.

Funny coming from you. You have not posted one single fact with source ect, to back up the OS. This is why no one outside of the official Truthers hate club takes any of you seriously.

There is no "OS". There is only the massive evidence that 9/11 "Truthers" pretend does not exist and have never been able to refute.

reply to post by weedwhacker


I would be more of a psychologist than you are. I have even taken a minor in it. I can tell from your posts that you seem to think you are right and everybody is wrong. I even get that from your avatar as well. You also seem to take the safe 'bet' of the argument to make you look smart.

Truthers have now even big name companies siding with them stating that the buildings were brought down by explosives.

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

The 'damage' aspect is why this sort of nonsense should be countered with facts and rationality. It plays into the hands of those who are actually responsible.

Funny coming from you. You have not posted one single fact with source ect, to back up the OS. This is why no one outside of the official Truthers hate club takes any of you seriously.

There is no "OS". There is only the massive evidence that 9/11 "Truthers" pretend does not exist and have never been able to refute.

So I guess you care even calling these truthers liars as well?

www.wanttoknow.info...

These government officials don't believe in the 9/11 OS.

Telling the 9/11 truthers to move on is kind un-American if you ask me. That is like telling the UFO believers to move on because they have blurry pictures.

The fact of the matter is that there were 2 wars sold due to 9/11. If the cause was unjust that makes many Americans war criminals, including the military. Many innocent people have been killed, many are being killed, many will be killed, so if this was an inside job I would sure as hell like to know.

My country was blown up because of this b/s, so please don't tell us to move on when the OS seems a tad bit fishy.

If you like to believe that your government has never lied to you and will never lie, that is your problem.

Afghanistan is a strategic place to put oil pipelines from the Caspian sea. The Bush family are in the oil business, that is a major conflict of interest which many fail to realize.

So even though we may never find out what truly happened, we can only hope.

reply to post by Equinox99


I get what you'e saying, Equinox, very, very clearly.

I simply don't repeat the full extent of my opinions, in every post, regarding the complexities of the intelligence failures and disasters that left the U.S. vulnerable, in September 2001 (and, BTW, for many months afterwards).

The focus of this thread, I believe, is merely to show that the majority of the so-called "truther" claims are nonsense. These are merely the after-the-fact rampant speculations --- I don't think I have to enumerate them all, but a few most outrageous examples are:

- 'DEW' or space-based orbiting weapons platforms

- 'holograms'

- Controlled demoliton (pre-planted somehow, magically)

- and one of the worst ever, foisted right here on this Board, by a long-time and very unimpressive, yet prolilfic ATS poster?

"Did The USAF Help With 9/11?"

THAT one, to me, was most egregious, and disgusting.


But, those, and the similar ones, are all a symptom of the problem, as I keep stating.

The "true" 'cover-up', most likely, will be the attempts to hide the Intelligence Agencys' varied failures, in the run-up to September 11th.

THAT, the ineptitude and inability to work together, in an inter-agency manner (ego, career greed, etc) led directly to the holes being there, to be exploited by the terrorists.

ALL the rest of this? Internet self-licking, and grandiose posturing....spurred partly by the implied anonymity of the Web...

(Of course, thre are a FEW vocal and 'public' sorts, but very few, and very loosely aligned. SOME are downright crazy....Nico Hauptman [sp?], in particular).

AS TO the much vaunted rosters of "Patriots For...", "Pilots For...", "A&E For..." etc? (BTW, there is a lot of cross-pollinization of membership, in many of those...)

We need to seriously evaluate WHAT any participants with those groups actually signed on for....I'm willing to wager that MOST of them wish to seek the truth of the Intelligence blunders, and THOSE cover-ups, and hold any responsible accountable to those actions.

NOT (in the majority of cases) is there a strong "belief" in all the other nonsense, and most ridiculous and convoluted "false flag" claims that infest this subject.

MOST of those seem to have been the result of over-active imaginations, and a culture of decades of Hollywood, and other venues, of the spy-thriller fiction genre.

reply to post by weedwhacker


You are a hero sir, if you keep it up the people involved in planning 9/11 will never be brought to justice.



Now if you can just reach your parties goal of denying healthcare to the first responders long enough to cause all of them to die, nobody will be left who heard the many, many very loud explosions that day.

Our families do not mind watching us fall apart slowly each year, its really no big deal, the Troops dying in these wars for chickenhawks much like you ,don't mind either, anything for true armchair patriot repuglycan brown nose fox news Fascist's!


Nothing went wrong, all of the first responders and family members who want answers should be rounded up and shot because we are crazy and working with the Arabs, right?



Never mind Larry's payday and the claims of fmr CIA agents Bob Baer and Ray Mcgovern or Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, only an antisemite or nutjob would concern himself with their claims, right?

I have a feeling that 9/11 truth will come out and that it will be used by the globalists to bring America down, when it does happen I hope that a careful review of all these online forums takes place, I hope people who came here and played games and told lies for profit (both sides) are found and HUNG, if this ever happens their will be no shortage of volunteerers, I believe if we get lemons, we should should make lemonade, I would like nothing more than to see the all these 9/11 liars swinging in the wind.....



Remember, if one helps criminals cover up their tracks that makes one an accessory, they should not be surprised when it catches up with them.

reply to post by jthomas

There is no "OS". There is only the massive evidence that 9/11 "Truthers" pretend does not exist and have never been able to refute.

The OS was told by NIST, 911 Commission reports, and by the media. Do you deny this to? Your agenda is very clear, you should not be attacking Truthers in every 911 thread.




[edit on 31-7-2010 by impressme]

reply to post by weedwhacker

The focus of this thread, I believe, is merely to show that the majority of the so-called "truther" claims are nonsense. These are merely the after-the-fact rampant speculations --- I don't think I have to enumerate them all, but a few most outrageous examples are:

Wow, and where are all of your supporters???? Where are all the thousands of ATS members staring and flagging you, that support your rants against the Truthers.

We all have our own opinions, it doesn’t mean you are always right. I would like to see just one post from you, where you don’t attack Truthers.

- 'DEW' or space-based orbiting weapons platforms

- 'holograms'

The majority of Truthers do not support this view; this is another way OS believers attack Truthers characters.

- and one of the worst ever, foisted right here on this Board, by a long-time and very unimpressive, yet prolilfic ATS poster?

"Did The USAF Help With 9/11?"

THAT one, to me, was most egregious, and disgusting.

You are way off topic and second if that USAF threads upset you so much, go complain to the owners of ATS or the Mods . The fact is, you could never disprove the USAF was innocent and had nothing to do with helping to carry out part of this false flag of 911 in that particular 911 thread. Had you had proof that the USAF had nothing to do with 911, you would have been able to show credible sources, or even start your own thread showing the evidence that they were innocent.

But, those, and the similar ones, are all a symptom of the problem, as I keep stating.

No wrong again, the USAF thread was asking many questions and YOU could not answer any of them these were serious question concerning how these commercial airliners were flown with “military position,” when the alleged hijackers could not take off or land a Cessna 172. Just because you cannot fathom the idea that our government may have pulled off a false flag, to wage two illegal wars for oil, drugs, and profits, it does not mean it is not possible.

AS TO the much vaunted rosters of "Patriots For...", "Pilots For...", "A&E For..." etc? (BTW, there is a lot of cross-pollinization of membership, in many of those...)

The problem here is you have never been able to disproved anything from the three websites you mentions and all three websites are full of scientific reports and top experts around the world who disagree with the OS and some have been able to prove parts of the OS are nothing but lies.

NOT (in the majority of cases) is there a strong "belief" in all the other nonsense, and most ridiculous and convoluted "false flag" claims that infest this subject.

Yet, you have never disproved any of it. The OS is the most wildest conspiracy theory ever told by our government, and that is a proven fact.

MOST of those seem to have been the result of over-active imaginations, and a culture of decades of Hollywood, and other venues, of the spy-thriller fiction genre.

That is exactly how I would describe the OS.

[edit on 1-8-2010 by impressme]

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by jthomas

 

There is no "OS". There is only the massive evidence that 9/11 "Truthers" pretend does not exist and have never been able to refute.

The OS was told by NIST, 911 Commission reports, and by the media. Do you deny this to? Your agenda is very clear, you should not be attacking Truthers in every 911 thread.

[edit on 31-7-2010 by impressme]

The evidence was right in front of us from the moment AA11 hit WTC 1. What we know came from multiple lines of evidence and thousands of eyewitnesses in the hours, days, and weeks after 9/11. The evidence was not controlled by the government nor the media, nor originated with them.

To continually pretend that we had to wait for the NIST investigations and the 9/11 Commission report is a strawman argument that the 9/11 "Truth" Movement has to claim to keep its house of cards afloat. To pretend that the "media was in on it" to cover up the FACT that the evidence never originated with nor was ever controlled by the "government" is another gross strawman.

There is no "Official Story." There is only the evidence. To hold on to your strawman argument to this day only demonstrates that the 9/11 "Truth" Movement is the failure we know it always was.

Originally posted by impressme

The OS is the most wildest conspiracy theory ever told by our government, and that is a proven fact.

...

That is exactly how I would describe the OS.

I rest my case.

reply to post by samhouston1886


You really do not understand me??

Responses filtered through a rage-filled haze....

THIS is what I think of the eight years of hell this country was put through:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8996b29b1b3b.jpg[/atsimg]

...and that good dog's aim is right on target...the name immediately below Bush's.


I am TRYING to point out that the truly criminal acts that can be attributed to Bush/Cheney, and their cabal, et al, were the blatant and hypocritical use of the 9/11 events to accelerate the plans that were already in place, involving Iraq in particular, and the Middle East in general.

The took heinous advantage of a terrible act of terrorism, that occured ON THEIR WATCH!


And, THAT is grounds for investigation --- the activities and responses to the 9/11 terrorist acts. In addition, the incredibly inept failures preceding the attacks, that could have meant the intervention before they occured.

THAT is another area of interest, and investigation --- and THAT is most likely the basis for any sort of "lack of cooperation" by the Bush administration, in the post-9/11 investigations. THEY were in process of manipulating and attempting to control any looking into the run-up to 9/11, for purely political reasons, to "protect" their "reputations", and mitigate the uncovering of the gross negligence, and mismanagement of the administration, and its various agencies.


I further contend that ALL of this so-called "truth movement" is looking in the wrong places, for the wrong mistaken reasons...AND, those inept and possibly criminally negligent individuals are laughing, as no one is looking closely at THEIR actions and misdeeds. ("criminal negligence" is up to prosecuters and courts to decide, but nothing will happen, as long as the focus is misdirected).

reply to post by jthomas

The only straw man augment is people on here making up garbage and twisting the truth into lies.
Everyone except you knows the government controles their information from the media.
Everyone knows that the media reports what the government wants them to report.
Everyone knows the media lies from time to time.
Everyone knows the OS of 911 was told by the media and the 911-commission report and NIST.


To say the OS was ONLY told by eyewitness and that is how we know what happen is only a part of how 911 it was told, and I might add there were eyewitness who told their stories in the 911 report. There were hundreds of eyewitness who saw, heard, and experience many things that contradict the OS that was told by the media earlier on . Do you deny this to?

The OS was told by NIST, 911 Commission reports, and by the media. Do you deny this to?
Your agenda is very clear, you should not be attacking Truthers in every 911 thread.

Therefore, your answer is yes.

You actually deny the facts that NIST and the 911 commission had nothing to do with telling the OS. Talk about living in a fantasy

To continually pretend that we had to wait for the NIST investigations and the 9/11 Commission report is a strawman argument that the 9/11 "Truth" Movement has to claim to keep its house of cards afloat. To pretend that the "media was in on it" to cover up the FACT that the evidence never originated with nor was ever controlled by the "government" is another gross strawman.

Priceless! Your answers speak volumes.





[edit on 1-8-2010 by impressme]