World tired of us: Israeli minister

reply to post by Gorman91

Jesus said the secret to the keys of heaven is desiring salvation and continuously seeking it, like a jihad of sorts on knowledge.

Yes but knowledge come from understanding. To understand one must be capable of common sense, for common sense one must be sensible and not go against that which they know to be sensible.

To go against what is sensible, is to go against common sense which is given by the holy spirit which is called hypocrisy.

Jesus never said the that he was the way to salvation through faith in his existence. He was just trying to show us the way to salvation through his words.

But not even his words will save a parson who has faith in him because understanding of his word is the key to salvation.

In order to be saves one must believe Jesus is lord, God. They must also spread those teachings and act in the way he described in his golden rule.

First of all Jesus is not a Lord, he is a liberator. A lord is some one who binds you and rules over you not some one who sets you free of imprisonment and rule.

And in order to teach his word one must understand it, otherwise they are just regurgitating dead letters printed on dead trees. His teachings are hidden and reserved for only those who seek the treasures of his teachings.

It's three mandatory rules. it's what he said. I don't think you fully understand that.

There is only one mandatory rule, and that is "Don't be a hypocrite."

Everything else is forgiven if done in ignorance.

No where did Jesus praise what Jerusalem is, other than calling it full of hypocrites and the laws of man. He got upset for their desecration for what it meant in that time. But Jesus said that the temple would fall and rise again, in him, 3 days later.

I never said Jesus praised Jerusalem, but he did not destroy it's importance either. this is obvious in the fact that there will forever be people killing each other for that land.

So for all what you say, you have not gotten the point, assuming you are trying to follow what Jesus said.

I have not gotten to the point because hidden truth is not put on a platter, it must be looked for. If you look for what i'm saying you will see my point. the point is up to you.

Faith in him

This will get you no where, many hypocrites have faith in Jesus and it means nothing.

Acting by the Golden rule

What golden rule?

and teaching others this life.

Many hypocrites teach dead letter from dead tree bark.

That is what is needed for salvation. That is what he proclaimed.

Wow I guess Jesus waisted a lot of breath preaching all that other stuff he said.

Now as for the topic at hand, Jerusalem provides no purpose anymore. Jesus made himself the temple. And in doing so, God lives in all men for all men live and die through Christ's word.

Jerusalem today provides the same purpose it provided back in the day Jesus used to preach in the streets.

All men are dead with or with out Christ's word. Only those who understand the words of Christ live. Christ is not as important as understanding him is.

God has always lived in all men, the soul is a piece of God, it took Jesus coming and teaching to get us to realise that, and still most don't get it.

And no, God's spirit did not always reside in man. For God so says:

"My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh"

Well the body is nothing but dust and to dust it shall return once the soul leaves the body.

And indeed, there is corn to be found in the weeds of Jerusalem. However, to harvest them is to have them find Christ and not worry about Jerusalem anymore.

Jesus Christ is but a name, you can replace it with any name. To know Christ one must become Christ. Why do you think what I say is heresy in the World of Mammon?

For God also says he will destroy the city and make an eternal one in the heavens above. So to fight over that which will inevitably be destroyed is pointless and comparable to two penguins fighting over a fish on a piece of ice sheet as an ice breaker storms forward. If they continue to fight for the fish, they will both die. If they stop fighting over that which does not matter, then they will be saved and receive new fish.

The fight for Jerusalem will never end friend. It is but a game of Mammon just like it always was and the eternal city in the heavens was there a long, long time before Jerusalem was ever constructed.

Originally posted by mamabeth

Originally posted by tooo many pills


I think it was all planned from the start, the complete collapse of the Ottoman Empire in 1922, WWI, WWII, the creation of Israel, and the pending war in the Middle East.

The entire world is being played hardcore. Wake da eff up!

God is in control and He is on His throne.
All is going according to God's plans and
people better wake up before it is too late.
Jesus/Yeshua is coming back soon!

Since Israel was re-established as a nation,
Bible prophesy has been unfolding before
our eyes.

Yeah - it has, but I don't think its gods plan - its the scums plan, they are recreating bible prophecy for their own purpose - I think they intend to create a 'jesus' we can all believe in.

It wont be pretty when they have a godhead and everyone believes it, you think a dictatorship is bad - ouch.

§ionid

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

World tired of us: Israeli minister

www.presstv.ir

Israeli Minister of Trade, Industry and Labor, Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, says the world is tired of Israel and that Israel, rather than the Gaza Strip, is actually blockaded.

"We're not the ones maintaining a blockade. We're blockaded, utterly isolated. We're in a situation where the world is tired of us,"

"They're tired of hearing our explanations, of showing empathy for our troubles, even if they're real troubles. (The world is) Tired of understanding us. This business just isn't working anymor

(visit the link for the full news article)

Finally someone from Israel seeing things as they are. I would not be surprise if that guy goes missing soon...

reply to post by Izarith


yea well sorry to tell you, but.




Jesus is lord. And a lord can be a lord of freedom. A lord is defined by how he acts, just as any king or slave. All in how he acts. A lord can give freedom and no bondage just as much a slave can remove his own bondage and be free.

One of the most used words in the bible is lord. So sorry to inform you, but that is not only true, but a title as well.

Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only

In addition, you judged each three alone. But doing only one of three will get you no where. Just as you said.

You need all three. The golden rule, faith in him, and teaching others this. That is what Christ wanted.

Jesus also said many times how he felt he was wasting his breathe. You are right. He felt there was no point, seeing as humans could not get those three basic rules down. He often said

Do you still not understand?

After repeating these basic rules down.

And yes, people can be forgiven for lacking knowledge. But it's still demand that you do not embellish in that ignorance. For example, you defending what you are saying, which in many places are wrong.


And yes Jesus hated hypocrites, but that is hardly why he came.

Jesus said why he came. For people to put faith in him so they would not die. In addition to this faith, they must do and seek.

That is the simple three combination necessary. Do, follow, seek.

And as to what golden rule? Are you serious? Love others as yourself and God as yourself. How can you even debate if you do not know that?


You got a lot to learn.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91


If Jesus was lord? How was he killed and crucified? Jesus was not lord, never was never will be. He was simply a messenger. It is blasphemous to say that your lord can be killed. Ridiculous. Absolutely Ridiculous.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by Gorman91

 

If Jesus was lord? How was he killed and crucified? Jesus was not lord, never was never will be. He was simply a messenger. It is blasphemous to say that your lord can be killed. Ridiculous. Absolutely Ridiculous.

Very well said, Jesus never claimed he was the LORD or GOD.

The true part of the Bible backs that claim.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


The flesh can be killed. This is true. I don't really see a problem with that.

Also, you know, it was told in the old testament. He had to die. I fail o see him being killed as heresy.

Death is just transition. In any form. Nothing ever truly ends.

As to messenger. That's called a prophet. They're a dime a dozen.
reply to post by LittleSecret


True bible? Do explain. Every gospel says he is lord. He says he is lord. Lots of times.

On what authority do you have to cut and paste the bible?

You either accept it as truth or you don't.

If you feel the need to invent your own religion, at least don't copy paste another one.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 4-7-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by nenothtu

See, there's the problem right there. The use of the term "occupation" regarding Israel betrays a political bias, and is factually incorrect. Israel is the legitimate government. Deal with it. Calling it an "occupation" is like calling the government of France an "occupying force".

Well... I got a bit of a problem with that. You see you just picked the worst country to compare Israel with... since well France was recognized as a separate.. lets call it "entity" in about 843 with the treaty of verdun (western francia thats about more or less today's France), the first "King of the Franks" was there way before even, in about 400 and something. Of course borderwise Portugal has the oldest unchanged borders and identity but still France is pretty much one of oldest countries in Europe.

Dont compare France one of the oldest countries in Europe with a country established in 1948 using lands that actually belonged at the time to someone else. Hell, Not to mention that if it depended on the Zionists alone, they would have taken a bit of jordan, syria and lebanon too cause that was their plan and was their request.

Actually dont compare ANY european country with Israel since well... you do know a bit about the crusades right? Do you remember anyone invading "Israel"... prolly not, cause it didnt exist yet. It was the Kingdom of Jerusalem founded in the first crusade etc etc, I'm sure you know this.

Ironically I liked your comparison cause the first king of jerusalem was actually a frankish knight.

Now since we got all that crazy example out of the way, lets take a look at some examples of Israeli "fairness and justice" and how they see their neighbors and how they respect them even before the state of Israel was "created" and see the founding principles of that state.

Lets take a look at the founding father of israel... David Ben Gurion (or David Grün whatever you want to call it) and lets see his ideas and how fabulous of a guy he really was.

Somewhere around the turning of the century he defended that only jewish ppl should work in jewish businesses and that a jewish laborer should earn a higher salary than an Arab because...

"[he was] more intelligent and diligent" than the Arab" (reference Shabtai Teveth)

How he wanted the state to be:

"to the north, the Litani river [in southern Lebanon], to the northeast, the Wadi 'Owja, twenty miles south of Damascus; the southern border will be mobile and pushed into Sinai at least up to Wadi al-'Arish; and to the east, the Syrian Desert, including the furthest edge of Transjordan"

Guess palestine was not enough for this nice fella...

Now how did he defend the rights to ocupy that land...? Oh yea, its on the Shabtai Teveth also...

"We do not recognize any form of absolute ownership over any country. Any group of diligent persons, every industrious people, is entitled to enjoy the fruits of labor, and do with its talents as it pleases. it has no right to prevent others from doing the same, or to close the doors leading to nature's gifts in the faces of others. The five million inhabitants of Australia have no right to close the gates of their continent--which they alone cannot fully exploit-- and so exclude the masses of desperate people seeking a new place to work. This is the principle behind the right of free migration, championed by international socialism."

So I guess... any country can barge in there and colonize the damn thing also... BUT he was so dedicated to the state of israel and its creation that in 1931 he was actually ready to collaborate with the devil to create it... "sup with the devil" he said... (again in the Shabtai teveth)

Now... of course he wasnt alone on that quest. He had a big backup. So he knew the palestinians would fight back and maybe have allies.. but so what? In 1937 he said:

""It is very possible that the Arabs of the neighboring countries will come to their aid against us. But our strength will exceed theirs. Not only because we will be better organized and equipped , but because behind us there stands a still larger force, superior in quality and quantity .... the whole younger generation from Europe and America" (from Expulsion of the Palestinians)

And then...

"We must EXPEL ARABS and take their places .... and, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places-then we have force at our disposal." (also from Expulsion of the Palestinians - same page even)

wrote in his diary explaining the benefits of the compulsory population transfer

"With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement] .... I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it." (in Righteous Victims)

Now some other other nice quotes from that loving character...

"we adopt the system of aggressive defense; with every Arab attack we must respond with a decisive blow: the destruction of the place or the expulsion of the residents along with the seizure of the place." (1947)

Now we're starting to see how israel was raised and how it is so faithful to its father...

"The wisdom of Israel is now the wisdom of war, nothing else." (Simha Flapan) - 1948

"The war will GIVE us the land. The concept of 'ours' and 'not ours' are ONLY CONCEPTS for peacetime, and during war they lose all their meaning."

"The Arabs of the land of Israel [ Palestinians] have only one function left to them -- to run away." (1948)

When presenting the Declaration of Independence of the state of Israel there was no information bout the borders, and Ben Gurion was warned about it by his own minister of justice, the dialog followed:

"ROZEN: "There's the question of the borders, and it cannot be ignored."
BEN-GURION: "Anything is possible. If we decide here that there's to be no mention of borders, then we won't mention them. Nothing is a priori [imperative]."
ROZEN: "It's not a priori, but it is a legal issue."
BEN-GURION: "The law is whatever people determine it to be."

But the best for me... was in 1938.

"If I knew it was possible to save all Jewish children of Germany by their transfer to England and only half of them by transferring them to Eretz-Yisrael, I would choose the latter----because we are faced not only with the accounting of these Jewish children but also with the historical accounting of the Jewish People."

Golda meir also has some very good ones. All nice people.

Originally posted by mamabeth
Since Israel was re-established as a nation,
Bible prophesy has been unfolding before
our eyes.

um what happens next then according to prophecy?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I am tired of the war. Surely, they could sort it out...?

:bnghd:


[edit on 4-7-2010 by Thurisaz]

reply to post by Thurisaz


What happens next? It all blows up.

If you want to justify a nation off of prophecy, you can't ignore the part of the prophecy about it all blowing up.

reply to post by mav0360


We are not made to kill each other. Thats why God handed the Ten Commandments to Moses. `Thou Shalt Not Kill` and `Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbours Land`and `Love Thy Neighbour` l need not go on as lm sure you know them as do all the christians and Jews on ATS.These are the sacred Laws from God. We were also given our own Fee Will. We can live by those laws or choose to ignore them, lts our choice. lt seems that a lot of us have chosen the latter. Thats why l follow no religion. l look to my own soul for the guidance l need. Peace and love starchild.

reply to post by Gorman91


OMG the whole lot blows up???

sheesh!

reply to post by star child


Oh I like your post... yeah, "thou shall not kill"... um.. how bloody hard is it to understand that? But they kill and kill regardless... what is weird is that aren't they all somehow related??

reply to post by Thurisaz


Yes. According to the bible, the lands of Canaan are for Abraham and his line, Both Muslims and Jews and Christians trace their heritage to Abraham. Justly so, no one group deserves the land for themselves. Unjustly so, all three groups fight for the lands for only themselves.

Oh the tricks of God. If we actually listened, we would be unified.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by Gorman91]

(cont)

Now the trend continues...

Lets take a look at some of the greatest hits from Ariel Sharon

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001

“Tell me, do the evil men of this world have a bad time? They hunt and catch whatever they feel like eating. They don’t suffer from indigestion and are not punished by Heaven. I want Israel to join that club. Maybe the world will then at last begin to fear us instead of feeling sorry. Maybe they will start to tremble, to fear our madness instead of admiring our nobility. Let them tremble; let them call us a mad state. Let them understand that we are a savage country, dangerous to our surroundings, not normal, that we might go wild, that we might start World War Three just like that, or that we might one day go crazy and burn all the oil fields in the Middle East. Even if you’ll prove to me that the present war is a dirty immoral war, I don’t care. We shall start another war, kill and destroy more and more. And do you know why it is all worth it? Because it seems that this war has made us more unpopular among the civilized world…We’ll hear no more of that nonsense about the unique Jewish morality. No more talk about a unique people being a light upon the nations. No more uniqueness and no more sweetness and light. Good riddance.” -—Former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon

"We'll make a pastrami sandwich of them, ... we'll insert a strip of Jewish settlements in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlements right across the West Bank, so that in 25 years' time, neither the United Nations nor the United States, nobody, will be able to tear it apart." Ariel Sharon, 1973

Now for the best of the best from Menachem Begin

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin

hmmm where did I hear that master race thing before... hmmmm

For all those who support Israel... I hope someday will be the day of reckoning for Israel, this year or the next.

My personal suggestion:

That land has seen enough bloodshed. Either get jews, palestinians, christians, etc EVERYONE outta there and turn it into a neutral zone of pilgrimage OR flatten it, cover it with cement, glass it, completely destroy the damn place for all the evil, death and suffering it has brought to the world for 2000 years, leave only but a sign, a stone telling the place's approximate death toll and the reasons so the world never forgets and never repeats what happened there and the reasons why it happened.

reply to post by Gorman91

Jesus is lord. And a lord can be a lord of freedom. A lord is defined by how he acts, just as any king or slave. All in how he acts. A lord can give freedom and no bondage just as much a slave can remove his own bondage and be free.

To say a lord can be of freedom is blasphemy against common sense. It just plain ridiculous. It does not make sense and is in no way sensible at all.

How can a Lord be of freedom? How can a Lord liberate? Calling some on a lord means they rule over you and your life. They Own you, you are their Biatch.

Jesus was a spirit born in flesh who had the knowledge to escape the material, a Messenger with a message of True life, and True knowledge of who we are and were we came from.

He told us we come of light, we are the light of the supreme being, the unnameable. The hidden knowledge of who we are.

Mammon is the lord your God. Mammon is the only one who wishes to Rule over us and No lord will ever bring you to salvation.

Calling Jesus Christ the Lord is the Same as viewing Jesus Christ as the Cross he died on, as viewing him as the Flesh he tossed aside on the third day. It's ludacris and wrong to view someone like Jesus as a Lord or a God. It defies everything he tried to show us, that we are all Divine and our souls come from elsewhere.

It is as blind as taking his parables literally and believing they mean nothing else.

One of the most used words in the bible is lord. So sorry to inform you, but that is not only true, but a title as well.

the bible is nothing but dead letters printed on dead thees. It is also a vastly corrupted version of the words of Christ. corrupted by Mammon Lord your God of this world.

The supreme Bing has no name, it is unnameable and unfathomable.

In addition, you judged each three alone. But doing only one of three will get you no where. Just as you said.

Between the spirit and the soul is the mind......not using your mind will get you nowhere but to serve Mammon lord Your God.

"Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only"

You need all three. The golden rule, faith in him, and teaching others this. That is what Christ wanted.

Thats it? hell that's the same thing Hitler and Stalin wanted.

Jesus Christ could give a flying turd if you believe in him or not. I think a guy like him with such profound spiritual knowledge would be above worship and blind faith.

Hell he even criticised his apostles about being blind followers.

The blind leading the blind, that is where you get your ideas from.

The only thing Jesus wanted from anyone is for them to "know thy self".

Once you realise that your soul comes from elsewhere and is never ending and is a piece of the supreme, unnameable, unfathomable...treating others better then you treat yourself come like second nature because it is our True Nature, because of what we are made of.

Jesus also said many times how he felt he was wasting his breathe. You are right. He felt there was no point, seeing as humans could not get those three basic rules down. He often said

"Do you still not understand?"

And I trying, we will forever need to try and the mind baptised with common sense of the Holy Spirit might get us there. But it is a long road.

After repeating these basic rules down.

Yeah right Jesus condemned the seduces and pharisees for laying noting but law down and not nurturing the soul of the people, just so the same could be done to you.......ridiculous.

And yes, people can be forgiven for lacking knowledge. But it's still demand that you do not embellish in that ignorance. For example, you defending what you are saying, which in many places are wrong.

Sin is forgiven because it's done in ignorance and ignorance is punishment enough. The world is embellished in ignorance because the blind lead the blind.

I preach my own gospel, some will listen some will not. You sure tend to agree with a lot I say despite calling me wrong.

And yes Jesus hated hypocrites, but that is hardly why he came.

That is why he came, the blind leading the blind is one thing but to have those who know full well what they are doing is wrong to keep the Keys of Life from those who could learn will call for a Man to be born and add some leverage to an unequal situation.

Jesus said why he came. For people to put faith in him so they would not die. In addition to this faith, they must do and seek.

That is the simple three combination necessary. Do, follow, seek.

If you believe that believing in Christ is why he came than you are all ready dead in spirit...

For you only seek and do because your Lord commands you to, and by this you will never learn to do it genuinely from the soul.

Hell i drive the speed limit because if not some Jack ass mettermaid will give me a ticket not because I love my fellow Cop, even tho i sould.....that one is kind of hard for me, I'm still working on liking my fellow Cop.

And as to what golden rule? Are you serious? Love others as yourself and God as yourself. How can you even debate if you do not know that?

No rule can make a person love God or his fellow man. No law from heaven or Hell can force a soul to do that.

Rules are a thing of earth, a human ideal of the material realm. The soul falls in line and loves his fellow man once he realises that we are all divine and rules are for the blind and ignorant.

On Topic

If People would try to "Know thy self" instead of trying to give Christ a spiritual blow job, by worshiping him like a god for a nice goody bag at the end of the road, The war in the middle east over Jerusalem would not be an issue, their would possibly be peace.

You got a lot to learn.

Can't argue with that.



[edit on 4-7-2010 by Izarith]

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


A legitimate government is a legitimate government. You haven't countered the legitimacy of the State of Israel.

So, if you get you panties all wadded up by the French example (I just picked one at random) because of the age of it (BTW, I beleive the current government there traces back to the late 18th century, rather than the 9th century monarchies) then let's just scrap that comparison, and compare it to Zimbabwe, That was formed in 1980, from other people's land. Reckon we ought to oust them, and give it back to the Rhodesians? To be honest, they did a better job of managing it, but a legitimate government is a legitimate government, and Mugabe can run it into the ground all he pleases. It's his country, legitimately.

You mention the Crusades. Yeah, I heard about them. Wasn't it muslim land at the time? How and when did the muslims acquire it? C'mon now, you're a bright lad. I know you know the answer to that...

All those words, and you never got around to challenging the legitimacy of the State of Israel.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


Thank you for all the the work you did to put all this information out here. wish l could give you all the stars and flags on ATS for it. lf there is such an entity as the the Antichrist lm sure it will be well cared for in that Godforsaken place.

reply to post by Izarith


Yea, you're arguing based on your own look on things without any proof but your word which is pretty much retarded.

Like I said. If you want to make up your own religion, do not copy paste another one.

And fyi, a lord is title. How you act is what you are. Same with what you say and how you act. That is what makes Jesus the true lord. That is what differentiate's him from Hitler and Stalin. He can have total control and total power, and not abuse it.

That's how he's a lord with freedom. If you can't understand that, well then you're tied to the ways of men and too embellished in ignorance to understand how a flawless lord can allow freedom.


Let Jerusalem and all the foolish who fight for her burn. I will still have the temple, my body. And Jesus will still be my lord.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by yuefo

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by Mdv2

 

The very day that the U.S. turns it's back against Israel,
God will punish the U.S.I don't care what any of you think,
I am sticking by my support for Israel

Doesn't it kind of seem like God is punishing the US while it supports Israel?

Maybe god is punishing the US for the wars in iraq and afghanistan and the blind support for israel...

we wanted oil...guess what now our shores are covered in the blood red oil...poetic justice....