Original and complete Bible found?

reply to post by Blue Shift


again, it doesn't make any difference who found them or what their motives are unless we're talking about a forgery. if a 5 year old with mental problems found a cache and adamantly stated that the scrolls detailed the ongoing war and struggles between the peanut butter people adn the jelly people it wouldn't matter.

anyone with half a brain can easily decide for themselves that the cache was either real or not w/o the consent of the 5 year old.

now, if the translation is total bunk then that's obviously not good news. it would be much better if there were an accurate translation. (provided that any of this is real, of couse) but again, a poor translation does not in any way detract from the magnitude of a find like this.

also i just remembered. on the website they claim that the new testament texts were found quite some distance away from the old testaments. i'm not going to bother going into whether or not that's true because obviously we can't confirm the veracity of the sites primary claim to begin with. much less their secondary and tertiary claims.

Originally posted by IvanObanion
now, if the translation is total bunk then that's obviously not good news. it would be much better if there were an accurate translation. (provided that any of this is real, of couse) but again, a poor translation does not in any way detract from the magnitude of a find like this.

What find?
The page gives no details.

If there was a REAL find like this, it would be well-known to scholars.

This is merely religious fantasy, no facts anywhere.

Originally posted by IvanObanion
also i just remembered. on the website they claim that the new testament texts were found quite some distance away from the old testaments. i'm not going to bother going into whether or not that's true because obviously we can't confirm the veracity of the sites primary claim to begin with. much less their secondary and tertiary claims.

Claims?
So what?

There is NO evidence.
It's religious fantasy, no facts at all.


Kap

reply to post by Kapyong


thanks for pointing out the intent of the entire thread. notice how the thread has a question mark after it. notice how i've repeatedly stated that this may not be real.

please, at least make an attempt to read something before commenting.

if you'll continue reading, which you obviously haven't. you'll notice there are several factors contributing to why this alleged find may exist even though it isn't well known.

aside from that there has been commentary regarding the whys and hows of other scenarios. seriously, read the posts.

Originally posted by IvanObanion
thanks for pointing out the intent of the entire thread. notice how the thread has a question mark after it. notice how i've repeatedly stated that this may not be real.

So it's not actually real.
Like you knew all along?

Originally posted by IvanObanion
please, at least make an attempt to read something before commenting.

WTF?
I DID read it.
Then I commented.

Originally posted by IvanObanion
if you'll continue reading, which you obviously haven't. you'll notice there are several factors contributing to why this alleged find may exist even though it isn't well known.

Oh, so now it MAY exist after all ?

Originally posted by IvanObanion
aside from that there has been commentary regarding the whys and hows of other scenarios. seriously, read the posts.

What is wrong with you ?!
I DID read it.
And I found it was crap, and responded.

Now you want to admit it's NOT real,
But it still MIGHT be real!?


I'm a Nigerian Prince with $10 million stuck in US funds, but unfortunately, without your help of small fee now for which you will later be paid $5 million, I cannot access it ....


Kap

Ok,

Have any of you guys actually looked into what your talking about thoroughly? You said that they provided an email and phone number. have you called them? have you personally spoken with the people making these claims?

it sounds like most of what your babbling about is just what you THINK are the facts about whether these scriptures exist, based on theories about whether you think they could be preserved, the location etc.

I can tell you that I've personally spoke to RapHA and his wife and there are both two of the most genuine people that I've met.

....and no I'm not trying to promote their site, I just randomly stumbled across it like I'm sure most of you have.

Dr. RapHA holds two secular P.Hd's, and also has a host of other sites that are trying to get the word out about this find.

Yahuwah.org
theorginalscriptures.com
originalscriptures.com

etc.

and If you noticed, they also have FREE WEBINARS, that you can log into, MEET THEM (and other Yahuwahns, of which there are about 7 that I talked to) and share time talking about these scriptures.

and LASTLY (if I haven't made my points clear enough).

He just got done speaking at a Unity Conference about THE VERY SUBJECT THAT HE TEACHES ON HIS SITE. the name of Yahuwah.

www.youtube.com...

One more thing.....

this man has also been serving as a missionary in Afghanistan and currently has a price on his head because of the work he has been accomplishing....go ahead call him and ASK HIM.

his organization is at www.ngli.us...

go ahead an look through the pictures on the newsletter, he is clearly the same guy on the youtube video.

I CANNOT believe the lack of scholarly investigation on this, and I would hope that you would take what they give you and try to dig up as much as you can.

Please respond back.

thanks.

Jordan

[edit on 9-8-2010 by TheStudier]

[edit on 9-8-2010 by TheStudier]

reply to post by Pellevoisin


The restoration they are referring to is of the "latter days" or the "end times". It has nothing to do with reforming the church. Because if you read further, you would realize that the word "church" is actually never in the bible, nor do they endorse the word. They specifically say that the children of YAsrael (not israel the land mass) are the "church".

and besides, church actually means 'circe' in greek which refers to a 'circus'

well said eh?

I am slightly confused over the attempt to use modern english terminology in these new translations vs the attempt to revive the actual original linguistics of YHWH - reading just the first verses of the Genesis version left me wondering about the intent of its producers...is it an attempt to push an agenda while tickling the ears of those that want to hear?

I speak and read english...not hebrew. I don't say yeshua..I say Jesus...among thousands of other words I don't speak in hebrew because I speak english...I understand words like nebula and light...but I don't use the hebrew words for them. Does Jehovah not understand when I pray to Him that I am addressing Him personally...or is it neccesary for me to understand/speak His name in the language of the men with whom He spoke to thousands of years ago?

I mean, does God only speak Hebrew?







edited cause I prefer to capitalize titles like 'Him' and 'He' ...





[edit on 10-8-2010 by Xcouncil=wisdom]

[edit on 10-8-2010 by TheStudier]

[edit on 10-8-2010 by TheStudier]

[edit on 10-8-2010 by TheStudier]

hm... the first pic shows the text in hebrew the second one is in greek..

[edit on 10-8-2010 by TheStudier]

Gday,

Originally posted by queenannie38
... Council of Nicea is what brought about a consistent canon of both OT and NT documents.

Oh dear oh dear...

That is NOT correct queenannie - it's merely a common urban legend that is endlessly repeated on the 'net.

In fact, the CoN had NOTHING to do with choosing the books of the bible at all. The council did NOT even DISCUSS that subject at all.

But sadly, it's become accepted reality on this site :-(


Kap

Originally posted by IvanObanion
this seems to be a good point and i'm going to look into as best i can.

Please do.
You will find the Council of Nicea had NOTHING to do with choosing the books of the bible at all. But you will find many many people, including posters here who keep repeating this false claim.

Originally posted by IvanObanion
also, if the council chose certain books it obviously means they were in existence.

The Council of Nicea did NOT choose the books at all.
Constantine's bible from some years after the Council, still did NOT contain the same books as now.


Kap

Gday,

Originally posted by IvanObanion
this is from the 1st council of nicea. nothing mentioned about arranging the cannon.

Wow!
Fantastic!

You actually checked the facts!
How incredibly rare that is around here.

You have regained my respect Ivan. Well done.
(Although you did mispell 'cannon' (boom!))


Kap


[edit on 10-8-2010 by Kapyong]

Interesting indeed. I would be interested in an analysis of these texts from a source that is independent of the organization that is, apparently,presenting them.

In my years of 'truth' seeking I have run across many an organization that seizes on a particular dogma and announces it as a direct revelation of the path to everlasting life to be gained ONLY by following that dogma. These organizations invariably hold that they are the only ones that are the keepers of 'the truth' and all others are the lies of Satan.

Due to translation & mistranslation of differing so called 'original' texts the "NAME" of God (insert name here) is often touted to be the 'true' name. I also ran across a somewhat cultist communal community in northern Vermont that used Yeshua as the 'official' name of God to legitimize their dogma and hold a belief that only those that 'properly' used this form of the name of God, were the only TRUE believers and the only TRUE people of God would have prayers answered and be saved.

Thanks to the OP for bringing this text to my attention. I have read through all of what was presented on the referenced website. Unfortunately the text themselves, as well as the embellished explanations of the site, posit a dogma that is generally found in many doctrines of legalistic cults (Like the branch Davidians or the Yashuans). Use THIS name for God, celebrate THESE days, honor THESE feasts - all actions of 'doing' - and you will prosper, be protected and be saved. Similar to Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Branch Davidians, Yeshuans, Latter day Saints, Jesus Only and other 'legalistic' doctrines they put forth a 'new' revelation, authority, translation system or that the texts are the 'original preserved Word of God.' MORE 'original' than the other 'original' texts (and there are NO 'original' texts that we know of), dismissing mountains of already available texts as corrupted and this one 'new' document is spoken from the lips of (insert name of God here) to the scribes ear dutifully recorded without error.

Sounds more like herding the adherents to me. The references to modern scientific concepts is indeed disturbing and does not add credibility nor is the dating of the documents.

My humble apologies if I offended anyone by mentioning their preferred belief system above.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Emptiness Dancing]

[edit on 10-8-2010 by TheStudier]

Originally posted by Emptiness Dancing
Sounds more like herding the adherents to me. The references to modern scientific concepts is indeed disturbing and does not add credibility nor is the dating of the documents.

I soundly agree.

There are some other major problems mentioned (like the manuscripts nobody has seen and the discovery of them by the faithful and never revealed to the public). Some of the ones that stood out for me was the "carbon dating." Carbon dating would give a date with a plus or minus 10 year margin for something dated 79 AD. It wouldn't give a definitive date. Nor can you linguistically date something to a certain year.

The second problem is that paleoHebrew was fell out of use as a script more than 5,000 years ago when the Jews began to use Aramaic script. en.wikipedia.org...

The third is "how do you know how the names were pronounced... really?" Language changes, spelling changes, and the accents change wildly (think about the difference between "Texan" that I speak with my broad western drawl and the Cockney English that the Geico gecko speaks.) PaleoHebrew and ancient Mediterranean languages did NOT often use vowels in their writing (some modern languages like Arabic also don't write the vowels even when they're sounded out in speech.)

Their etymologies are wrong. They state "Church" never occurs in the Bible (true) and that it comes from the word "Circe" (false... it comes from "kyriake" which means house of the powerful/house of the lord.) The deeper you read into the text and go "uhm... lemme check that one" (like a goddess named "Holi") you find that it doesn't match with reality.

They toss in names from other languages (Ammon was one... it's ancient Egyptian and the name of a god) and present interpretations. In one case they use the name Abel to mean one thing and below it show Abel (as part of a name) meaning something else.

I suspect it is something that students of culture call a "pious fraud." Intended to bring the people back to a mindset and encourage an idea, it is nevertheless very false (think of all the fake ufo/alien encounters you've read.)

What disturbs me is that there is a very "cultic" like feel to the text and use of words to channel you into a belief in these people.