Original and complete Bible found?

reply to post by IvanObanion


and you can find out for only 23.95 plus S&H, why wait? ORDER NOW!! and if you order one in the next hour they will throw in a jesus bookmark that doubles as a keychain gardenhose free of charge.

[edit on 28-6-2010 by zaiger]

Originally posted by faceoff85
[The bible had the concept of a round earth hanging in nothing down a long time before mainstream science came that far. also the guidelines set out for food and hygiene hint at a deeper understanding of micro-organisms being dangerous for humans.

Actually, "mainstream" science at the time and predating the New Testament did already know the Earth was a sphere. The ancient Greeks (before Jesus) for certain were all over that, and they also we dealing with evolution and atomism, and calculating machines.

What we call "mainstream" science today is science divorced from mysticism and spirituality, in the past, philosophers and mystics WERE the mainstream scientists. They created science. "Religion" divorced itself from philosophy at some point, and this created a counter movement among some proponents of science.

Its a shame that today that the two remain so separate. Both have lost a lot in the divorce. Religion is a mockery of itself in many cases, and science has been reduced to only the measurable. And the one tradition where the two are/could be still married, philosophy, has devolved in many cases to mere semantics.

I think that in this case, it does seem a bit suspicious, (Ok a lot suspicious) that the website is one big ad. But the premise that the ancient mystics were talking about a big bang is one I myself hold. They simply didnt use the terminology that we do at all. However the "undifferentiated potentiality" the mention in the creations stories, (the hymn of creation with its "one water without any distinction" for instance) seems to me that they are talking about the singularity, and then they mention a fire that arose in it, and the multiplicity being formed from that one potentiality by "lines being drawn) or divisions of that.

I find it amusing that some laugh that they would use the word "water" and chuckle to themselves about how ignorant they were to think H2O could be what all is created from, when what the ancients were doing was saying something with the quality of water, (which can accept any form) which to me says potentiality.

Anyway, good thread, but Im not buying any secret text.

Edit to add,

Those 70 brilliant unnamed scholars sure did like exclamation points too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Suspiciously, so does the author of the website!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edit on 28-6-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by DISRAELI


yeah i got that impression too about the whole name thing. but i did wonder why the habit ever started of taking the vowels out of the name, why bother?

however i'm much less interested in the translation as i am in whether or not it's even real. it would take a whole lot of character to find soemthing as big as this and not sell it to the highest bidder.

and to whoever posted that free site, good find. just gets weirder and weirder.

and you can find out for only 23.95 plus S&H, why wait? ORDER NOW!! and if you order one in the next hour they will throw in a jesus bookmark that doubles as a keychain gardenhose free of charge.

or i can pull your chain and see what comes out for free?

[edit on 28-6-2010 by IvanObanion]

reply to post by DISRAELI

Did you see this page, which gives the flavour?

Their version of John's Gospel

The NT was often translated out of the Greek into other languages of the time. I wonder if these are the MSS they're looking at?



[edit on 28-6-2010 by DISRAELI]

This first big red flag is the use of the word "RESTORATION" and its use tells me that these are either Mormons, of Mormon background, or are part of a few very small sects that arose about the same time as Joseph Smith ... all with the intention of the Restoration of the Church... meaning the Church had become so corrupted it had to be restored from the ground up.

Restorationists have a heavy agenda that usually leaves their work worthless to those outside of the sect.

In this case, I will study it some more before adding it to File Zed.

* * *
UpDate: I have read enough. If these texts truly exist, put them in the hands of real scholars. Otherwise there is nothing here worth my time.

[edit on 28/6/10 by Pellevoisin]

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by IvanObanion

 

A text which is full of modern concepts, like light-energy, and nebulae, and anti-matter, rather gives itself away as a modern text.

I tend to agree. Even if these were the words used and the manuscripts were lost forever I highly doubt such modern terms would have been lost in language only to resurface in Modern times.

Written works of true past authors would have demonstrated this to us as well, from the Greeks, the Egyptians, or the Romans.

reply to post by Pellevoisin


so the whole yahuwa thing is about the mormons? i'd just like to know if the find is real or not. i'm wouldn't expect anyone to verify a translation.

Somebody find a copy of this on Rapidshare or Megaupload or a torrentso we can check it out

God won't mind. He wants his word spread for free.

Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by IvanObanion

 

and you can find out for only 23.95 plus S&H, why wait? ORDER NOW!! and if you order one in the next hour they will throw in a jesus bookmark that doubles as a keychain gardenhose free of charge.

[edit on 28-6-2010 by zaiger]

Well that's a much better offer than the original "free Pope on a Rope" deal.

50 Million in costs and they work in a Cave?
Gee, hasn't rent on Caves gone up ridiculously, no wonder they never found Bin Laden there.

This sounds like a desperate attempt to revive interest in the faith and make a dollar on the way.

[edit on 28-6-2010 by Village Idiot]

reply to post by Village Idiot

50 Million in costs and they work in a Cave?

sometimes i wonder why we even use text on these boards. we should just tell stories with pictures and emotes. no one reads a f'n thing.

THEY DID NOT SPEND 50 MILLION. if you would READ you would know that.

Originally posted by IvanObanion
reply to post by Village Idiot

 

50 Million in costs and they work in a Cave?

sometimes i wonder why we even use text on these boards. we should just tell stories with pictures and emotes. no one reads a f'n thing.

THEY DID NOT SPEND 50 MILLION. if you would READ you would know that.

Your comment

"also as far as the 50million dollar cost goes. i didn't see that on the site that's a good find. however it didn't say they spent that money. they stated ont eh site that the translators are working with 1 meal a day (sometimes) out of a cave somewhere in the east. i think they were jsut making a comparison"

Hhmm Yes..... my reading abilities must be degrading with age

Originally posted by IvanObanion
yeah i got that impression too about the whole name thing. but i did wonder why the habit ever started of taking the vowels out of the name, why bother?

actually, ancient Hebrew does not use vowels at all.

however i'm much less interested in the translation as i am in whether or not it's even real.

it isn't real.

it doesn't fit in with what has already been discovered and established in many ways, several of which have been mentioned already in this thread.

it would take a whole lot of character to find soemthing as big as this and not sell it to the highest bidder.

unless of course, there is no highest bidder because it's not authentic and those who have enough funds to qualify as the highest bidder know better than to fall for something touted on a website and not heard of otherwise.

therefore the second best thing is to sell it off in little pieces for a moderate amount - actually making more $$ in the end, i would think.


besides all that, IF it were real, it has nothing to do with the highest bidder - news like that could not be suppressed or kept hidden! we would have heard about it from reputable sources and in this case, no news is bad news.

-------------------

on a lighter note:

i like this, from the home page:

In 2001 AD, The Spirit of El YAH broke through (as He promised) and gathered a small band of us truth seekers who, in obedience to His Word, had been trying to protect some fatherless abused children from Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan and the foothill HimalaYA mountain region.

Islamic terrorists in Nepal?
EGAD!
and what's with the revised spelling of HimalaYA

and who is abusing the children who have no father???



and also, what the heck is wrong with a "sex goddess?"

if anything could be called divine, wouldn't that be it?

ESPECIALLY since GOD is supposedly male and has a grown-up son, to boot!!!

that is, if we humans are truly made in his image, after his likeness - knowing how men are, in general, it just doesn't follow that GOD wouldn't like sex, too.
and who better to have sex with GOD than a goddess??
who else?
regular women would probably be blown away by the experience.
LITERALLY.


geez!
:shk:

[edit on 6/29/2010 by queenannie38]

reply to post by queenannie38


i don't understand where you get your confidence from. the dead sea scrolls weren't public knowledge for decades after their discovery and they were handled by proffesionals. sure you might have heard the name, but they were far from popular. even today most people are only briefly aware of their existence.

how is it so hard to imagine that someone might keep a treasure for themselves. how could you possibly know that people don't keep things for themselves all the time?

i don't understand teh arrogance. it's as if people are attaching me to the veracity of this website's claims. i have nothing to do with this other than posting it for people to see.

as far as the hebrews not having vowels, yeah i remember that nwo that you mention it. i suppose the true name of god was only know verbally which is why it still showed a yhwh in current bibles and not yahuwah.

still, i don't see what's the stretch of imagination required to entertain teh thought that someone discovered something important without it being handled by a university or government or some such other academic group.

if you think people have made claims, whether in this thread or not, that somehow prove this to be impossible then go right ahead and say it. it won't bother me in the least if you prove it false. but please don't enter a thread and start stating what you believe as fact.

Attention

If you want the TRUE translation I will GIVE it to YOU for ONLY 5 DOLLARS, to be WITHIN the T and cS i WILL donate ALL money directly TO the SPRINGER avatar FUND.
You CAN just TELL by my RANDOM use of the CAPS LOCK that i DO indeed know MUCH about the LORD and am a GOOD CHRISTIAN.

did i leave my troll feed bag lying around again?

Originally posted by IvanObanion
i don't understand where you get your confidence from.

experience
research
knowledge and familiarity with language, archeology, and biblical history (that is, of the biblical text's history rather than the history in the bible)
among other things.

the dead sea scrolls weren't public knowledge for decades after their discovery and they were handled by proffesionals. sure you might have heard the name, but they were far from popular. even today most people are only briefly aware of their existence.

actually, i am well aware of their existence as well as their content and their history.


the first press release regarding the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls was on April 11, 1948, just a year or so after they were found!

(source)

how is it so hard to imagine that someone might keep a treasure for themselves. how could you possibly know that people don't keep things for themselves all the time?

reasons people don't keep treasures for themselves:

• if it is worth money
  
• if it will gain prestige or fame or even notoriety
  
• if it will grant power of any sort
  
• if it will answer the unanswered questions of humanity
  
• if it will prove or disprove GOD
  

among other reasons.

i don't understand teh arrogance. it's as if people are attaching me to the veracity of this website's claims. i have nothing to do with this other than posting it for people to see.

i'm not being arrogant.
nor am i "attaching you to the veracity" of that website.
why would i do that?
i fully understand the situation and am under no misconception that you have anything to do with any of this other than just wondering if the claims of the website's author(s) are real.

i'm not attacking you in any way - just answering a question that you, yourself, asked!

if you recall, i was replying to your question of "i'd just like to know if the find is real or not." in this post.

my answer is NO, it is not real.

as far as the hebrews not having vowels, yeah i remember that nwo that you mention it. i suppose the true name of god was only know verbally which is why it still showed a yhwh in current bibles and not yahuwah.

because traditionally it was forbidden to speak GOD's name - it is the "ineffable name."

still, i don't see what's the stretch of imagination required to entertain teh thought that someone discovered something important without it being handled by a university or government or some such other academic group.

maybe not. but combined with the evidence, overall, it isn't a point in favor of authenticity.

if you think people have made claims, whether in this thread or not, that somehow prove this to be impossible then go right ahead and say it. it won't bother me in the least if you prove it false. but please don't enter a thread and start stating what you believe as fact.

here you go:

post by octotom
post by DISRAELI
post by Jordan River

from page 24 of the free link posted by virgom129:

The Restoration Original Scriptures
The Original Scriptures E1 is translated from 1st century manuscripts called Restoration Original Scriptures- (ROS07-ROS14, Revelation- ROS238) found in 2009 AY (―After YAHUW” in 7 BC) or 2002 AD in ancient eastern YAsarel (Bara/Gen 15:18), just west of the Euphrates River near the famous ancient eastern ―silk road. Seven of the manuscripts have been carbon dated to around 77 AY (70 AD). Except for the P-52 fragment, this pre-dates the former known early New Testament texts by 130 years. They are the only confirmed NT texts in YAHUWan (sign name-sn-Paleo-Hebrew) and IbreUW (Aramaic). These texts appear to be 95-100% Perfect Original Scriptures protected by El YAH as assured by the Savior YAHUW in MatithYAHUW/Mt 5:18. They were especially prepared with a unique ink formula to last a long time, as if the copyists expected a long persecution against the Kingdom of YAH and His Word.

The entire manuscript vault was tightly sealed with pitch under an above modest stone house floor all buried under 12 meters of sand. The scroll vault had no stairs yet was 3 meters tall. The vault entry stone was given by a code written in YAHUWan in the floor stones above: ―Baruwk hata BaShem hwhy (Blessed be The Name of YAHUWAH). According to other inscriptions, the house appears to have originally been that of the great NabiYA DanYAel during the Babylonian exile (597-527 BY). These were freshly copied ―For the Latter Day Visitation when The Word of YAH and The Beloved Name of hwhy will be restored. There are other Originals yet to be discovered, laid up for these ―Last YAoms. When another YAHUWan NT library is found, we will know whether these ROS Texts are 95, 97, 99 or possibly 100% perfect Originals.

The manuscripts cover the entire Original Scripture Canon of 77 Books except ChazUW YAHUW (The Revelation of YAHUW) which was written 23 years later, around 100 AY (93 AD), by the great MalakiYA YAHUWchanon. The majority of the research and primary translation was done by 77 excellent Restoration AbraYA ―Word-Elders of the East. The English editing was done by us lesser Western AbraYA who are not yet primary scholars, so there will certainly be future improvements to be made. We have worked hard for 8 years to give you the best translation of The Original Scriptures in published English history. We guarantee the main core message is 100% accurate and textually irrefutable.

there was not even a so-called "original scripture canon of 77 books" until long after 70 AD. some 300 years later Constantine sets about creating what is now known as the Church of Rome and the Council of Nicea is what brought about a consistent canon of both OT and NT documents.

there is no way that they've found a group of manuscripts, dated to 70AD, that didn't even exist as a group until after 300AD! this isn't supposition or opinion, but documented history by the church, itself!

besides that, there are repeated ludicrous statements being made in order to substantiate the supposed importance of this "discovery" such as the house under which these were found was probably the house of the prophet Daniel?

right. read on.

another point of contention is where they were supposedly found - west of the Euphrates near the ancient silk road. if this is so, then it is practically impossible to believe that these wonderfully-preserved manuscripts were found intact, under 12 feet of sand.

first of all, water drainage is a problem in that area, and has been ever since the days of Nebuchadnezzar and probably before.

and so the sand would, in all likelihood, have been wet sand at that depth.
and if that were the case, the manuscripts would not have been preserved, even in the manner described, which COINCIDENTALLY is the same as the DDS and Nag Hammadi scrolls were discovered - but in a totally different environment than that of the fertile crescent.

add to that, the area described could not be the ancient home of the prophet Daniel, who lived in Susa during the Babylonian exile, which is on the EAST side of the Tigris/Euphrates, near where the two merge.

map
another map

reply to post by queenannie38

experience
research
knowledge and familiarity with language, archeology, and biblical history (that is, of the biblical text's history rather than the history in the bible)
among other things.

this remains to be seen. keep reading.

actually, i am well aware of their existence as well as their content and their history.


the first press release regarding the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls was on April 11, 1948, just a year or so after they were found!

as i said, just because they were made availble to the public does not mean everyone in the public hears about them. there are books on my bookshelf that i haven't even read. you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. there is so much information in the scrolls that it would be nearly impossible for anyone not dedicated to learning about them to make any claim that they have anything more than a passing knowledge of their existence. stating that you are well aware of them makes no difference at all.

reasons people don't keep treasures for themselves:

* if it is worth money
* if it will gain prestige or fame or even notoriety
* if it will grant power of any sort
* if it will answer the unanswered questions of humanity
* if it will prove or disprove GOD


among other reasons.

now this is the epitomy of argument here. there is no way POSSIBLE for you to know how many people keep treasures. if they kept them it stands to reason that they didn't tell anyone. and besides, it's not just the original finder that may keep it for themself. they may sell it to a collector who then keeps it to himself. but i'm sure you didn't think of that.

my answer is NO, it is not real.

you would've been more helpful had you left it at that.

here you go:

post by octotom
post by DISRAELI
post by Jordan River

from page 24 of the free link posted by virgom129:

another meaningless point. i have CLEARLY stated SEVERAL TIMES, once that you even quoted, that i could care less about the translation. yet you still manage to treat this as a point of interest and even use the translations to somehow debunk whether or not the physical evidence exists. did you expect me not to notice or are you typing to fast or what?

here was not even a so-called "original scripture canon of 77 books" until long after 70 AD. some 300 years later Constantine sets about creating what is now known as the Church of Rome and the Council of Nicea is what brought about a consistent canon of both OT and NT documents.

there is no way that they've found a group of manuscripts, dated to 70AD, that didn't even exist as a group until after 300AD! this isn't supposition or opinion, but documented history by the church, itself!

finally, some evidence! wow it took so long just for someone to actually pony up and produce something that may be relevant. i'm so happy. this seems to be a good point and i'm going to look into as best i can. i can see a couple of points that would keep this from holding water though. just because the council deemed certain books more viable doesn't mean that other compilations didn't exist? also, if the council chose certain books it obviously means they were in existence. not hard to follow that they might have been stored together. also the collection in question may very well contain books not in the current bible thereby circumventing this point.

*continued in next post*

reply to post by queenannie38


*continued*

i will look up the point about daniel's house some other time. i dont' remember seeing that on the website so i'm not even sure it's worth looking into at the moment.

another point of contention is where they were supposedly found - west of the Euphrates near the ancient silk road. if this is so, then it is practically impossible to believe that these wonderfully-preserved manuscripts were found intact, under 12 feet of sand.

this is total hogwash.

Undeniable Proof pt 1
Undeniable Proof pt 2

seriously, it took me all of 2 minutes to google this information. so much for your experience and expertise. notice how they clearly mention in each article that documents and stamps were found at each site. both sites were UNDERWATER!

if the new find (which may or may not exist) was stored 12 feet underground in clay pots with decent lids it's VERY POSSIBLE!

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
This first big red flag is the use of the word "RESTORATION" and its use tells me that these are either Mormons, of Mormon background, [...]

Good call. And from reading a little bit of it, all I can say is that having the "real" names of the people included in the text does very little except make it extremely annoying to read.

Link

The agenda of the synod included:

1.The Arian question regarding the relationship between God the Father and Jesus; i.e. are the Father and Son one in divine purpose only or also one in being
2.The date of celebration of the Paschal/Easter observation
3.The Meletian schism
4.The validity of baptism by heretics
5.The status of the lapsed in the persecution under Licinius

this is from the 1st council of nicea. nothing mentioned about arranging the cannon.

Link

here's the second council. again, not much mentioned in teh way of the bible. however i'm not going to pretend to be an expert on this. if anyone has information regarding this supposed event please list it i'm all ear. of course, a link or two would help the credibility along

Melito of Sardis - wrote a letter containing the books of the Old Testament. (well before the council of nicea.)
Link

The Muratorian fragment - this is a latin manuscript listing the books of teh new testament. bound in a 7th or 8th century codex but appears to have greek connections tying it to as early as 170 a.d.
Link

well, this is far from proving that a complete and accurate collection of both the old and new testamant but it sure is a lot more open ended than was previously stated. looks like there is a lot of room for debate.

first of all, there was at least one colleciton of old testemant texts. the dead sea scrolls of course. there seems to be decent evidence that a collection of new testament texts were at least unofficially in existence. especially considering that i can't find any direct evidence that the council of nicea even made one.