The Reason Conspiracy Theorists Can Never "Win" Against the Elite

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

We cant win against the Elite because most of the Sheeple dont want to win against the Elite.

The Sheeple want to be like them. The Sheeple worship money and power. The elite have money and power. So the Sheeple worship the elite.
That is the One thing that unites the Sheeple even while there are three species of Sheeple,Republican,Libertarian,and Democrat. Thus from the beginning the Sheeple are willing to obey their leaders much like it was in the earliest days of tribal society. Money and power have replaced the tribal needs for food,shelter and safety.

The Sheeple do not consider themselves slaves or victims. Rather they
see themselves as children of their leaders. And they do not want to
grow up. They want to be controlled.

perhaps if we unified too much it would makes us an easier target?

perhaps there is already unified anti-elite communities and they are simply smart enough to stay underground....?

-B.M

Some people argue that it's never too late, but from the way I see it, it might be. Let's say for a second that all the sheeple wake up, start taking the world back, and unite. If I was one of the global elite knowing that I would soon lose all my power and/or be killed, what would I have to lose? I'd rather destroy the planet than let a bunch of useless eaters have "freedom". For all we know, the elite could have nukes hidden all around the world, even underground. With the flick of a switch, these nukes could be launched/detonated and nearly (if not completely) wipe out every living creature on Earth. As far as I'm concerned, it's going to take some worldwide or galactic event to save everything -- either that, or we can all accept our fate and be slaves. I wonder which destiny humanity will choose.

Perhaps I should text "DSTNY" to 55555 and see what my iPod says!

How low have we fallen...

Originally posted by Son of Will
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

There's two trends here - the awakening of individuals, and the cohesion of awakened individuals.

I can agree with that sentiment.

Originally posted by Son of Will
I think you're being overly pessimistic, and missing an important trend. Yes, it probably looks bad when you look around. But you have to look at the bigger picture - where was this "conspiracy theorist" movement 5 years ago? Small. How about before 9/11? Almost nonexistent. There were isolated pockets of people each with their own specific subject matters.

Pessimistic?

This is not my being pessimistic, trust me, this is my being pissed off.

Pissed off that the conspiracy theory community is apathetic and lazy.

I do not see 5 years ago as the turning point.

Apathy has set in, long ago, while the conspiracy theory community is excellent, in talking about action, it is usually the wrong actions, bordering on criminality.

Originally posted by Son of Will
But afterwards, especially in the last 4 or 5 years, combined with the advancement of the internet, the number of people looking into CTs has exploded from thousands to tens of millions. it's still growing. (I'd love to see an evaluation of ATS membership over the last 8 or so years, as a rough indication of interest in conspiracy theories)

I agree on some part but not on all of that.

Originally posted by Son of Will
We don't need to agree on everything. We don't need a common ideology, we are born free and should remain so. All we need, is to know that THEIR ideology is wrong and inhumane and unsustainable.

Yes, I agree, but it sure as Hell needs to be more than hatred of Government.

And denying the offical story.

Or else we are nothing but a bunch of Government-haters doing nothing but bitching.

The elite's ideology is non-existent because they are amoral, without morals.

Their "God" is a false "G.O.D.", called Guns, Oil, and Drugs.

Originally posted by Son of Will
As long as each individual recognizes that he/she is a sovereign entity with inalienable rights, and as long as this trend of political awakening continues, I think we'll be okay. But these things take time. The focus should be on making more people aware of the massive corruption around us - not on making sure that those of us already aware follow the same game plan. I firmly believe that.

The rest of your thread is great, and I think it's a wonderful blueprint for how to get activists more organized.

Yes, but those "inalienable rights" are slipping away daily, faster and faster.

And I am sorry but an online community only goes so far in my opinion.

While ATS is worldwide, it is a niche, not something nailing these bastards to the crosses they are trying to crucify us up in by calling us crazy.

Do not get me wrong, I love ATS, but I see it needs to hammer itself into the mainstream far more, and we have an awesome amount of intelligence.

However, that intelligence sits, talking about taking action, usually picking up guns, or "fighting" the elite, without actually doing anything.

This commercial comes to mind about hamsters on a wheel to nowhere.

2010 Kia Soul Hamster Commercial | Marz Featuring Pack & Mumiez Kia Hamsters Video


In other words, crap or get off the pot already, the elite do not give a damn.

They can sit in their Ivory Towers and laugh at us.

If the entire membership of ATS however were to get serious about politics, they might actually get worried, seeing as that is their world.

And blueprints look pretty on the drawing board but are a waste if nothing is actually built, and people see people like Julian Assange, a criminal, as a hero, he is no "Robin Hood", he has stolen official classifed documents.

His actions will do noting over all except give the Government reason to shut down Wikileaks, and come after communities like ATS with new laws regarding speaking out about Government, considering this is an international website it would be enforced too because of the laws in place already, literally they could change one or two laws.

And seize the servers and ATS would be shut down forever.

What I am saying, and always have been, is that we have to tread carefully between doing what we do here in conspiracy theorizing and criminality.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by Justoneman
When I was much younger, and these "theories" were bandied about, their was hardly anyone willing to entertain or otherwise considered these as facts. Well to quote Dylan, "these times they are a changin". People these days are better listeners. They seemed to have weighed the various theories and found some to be, indeed, fact.

I can see that growing daily out in the real world, meaning non-conspiracy theory U.S.A., people are seeing Obama as a joke, commenting at McDonalds, or Wal-Mart, watching events like Deepwater Horizon unfold and a President sitting on his hands doing nothing.

Dear God, I cannot believe I am going to say this, but the "Decider" would have decided already by now, and I hate Bush with a passion.

That bastard at least gave a semblance of giving a damn instead of blowing hot air.

Originally posted by Justoneman
Kennedy Assasinations tilted them toward the simple fact that there is some kind of secret gov out there who are doing things in our name, here in the US and probably worldwide, that are not remotely the peoples will. Some things, like segregation and all its sins, MUST be challenged and changed by authority figures of a strong gov.

I agree.

Vietnam and Dealey Plaza did galvanize America towards seeing the lies.

And Oklahoma City and 9/11 did as well but the next False-Flag Operation is building, and those bastards are plotting and planning it.

Originally posted by Justoneman
But to sit back and allow criminals to steal money then start wars as we have witnessed lately, has not been a thing people will tolerate, as long as there is proof of some kind. There is proof of Wall St crimes right down to who made the call for "derivatives:. They keep a paper trail, by our laws. Now people all over this great land think we have perpetrators of crimes walking the halls of the White House. IF you consider that Goldman Sachs connection to the fiasco as fact, it has to be true! At this point it certainly appears that way more people feel this way than don't.

Wall Street has always been connected and hip deep in the conspiracies.

These murderous idiots have to ensure they make trillions murdering people.

And they have to make it three times for each body that goes down.

From the bullets and guns, to the tanks and jets, to coffins and media attention.

It's a giant cirle-jerk and they're the only ones "getting off".

Quit honestly both literally and figuratively.

Originally posted by Justoneman
We believe they have commited major crimes and have yet to be arrested. That criminal behavior, if not acted upon by criminal investigative branches of our government, will force the people to conclude it IS ALL OVER anyway. Unlawful behavior will not be tolerated by the masses once they are convinced it is a fact. How many people do we all know who think a crime was committed by the financial institutions and that really 'too big to fail' means Wall St. took us over without firing a shot?

Yes, but they can throw a small wolf like Maddoff, out into the spotlight.

Meanwhile, they carved him up as the semi-guilty scapegoat, and got away with their mis-deeds, sure we will never dig deeper in the papertrails.

I follow this stuff up to the Security and Exchange Commission though.

Originally posted by Justoneman
Perhaps the cards are stacked but that just motivates the masses when they understand that has happened. Sure, some will throw in the towel and succumb to being mushrooms. Others will do whatever is necessary as they come to each fork in the road. I choose to think people are more like Braveheart than Woody Allen.

No Spartan King! We will not surrender to criminals, ever! Their motives are never ours and death follows them.

And I will never surrender to criminals nor criminality because that is wrong.

Yes, death follows them, of their own making, their hands are soaked in blood.

And the death's head emblem was not just the Nazi emblem but Skull and Bones.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/943c4d779e64.jpg[/atsimg]

Right and Left : A Control Mechanism of the Skull and Bones Society, the Order of Chaos

[edit on 26-6-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by antonia

It's a good thing I wasn't talking to you wasn't it? If it was in reply to you it would have been stated as such.

Well I'm responding to you your post. Not talking.

Originally posted by antonia

You are confusing scientific fact with political truth. Considering the very nature of politics there can be no truth. There can be certain points of view yes, but there can be no truth. Do not confuse the two issues.

Only in your mind can there be no truth.

Please allow me to show you some truth that defeats some political points of view.

George Bush said "The illegals are just here to work" Meaning their is nothing to worry about if illegals come here. So don't worry!

That is his political viewpoint. A blanket statement including all illegals. Now once I find evidence that shows just 1 illegal doing something that is not according to his statement (which is also our gov viewpoint) this political viewpoint is proven wrong.

here you go
www.youtube.com...

Is this something to worry about?

Originally posted by antonia
How do you prove a purely political viewpoint wrong? We are not discussing science here. We are discussing politics.

I just did. With facts. Do you believe the earth is flat?

Why did people almost all people believe that the earth was flat? That is because that is what they were told to believe by those whom ran things. In those days it was the church and government and their political viewpoint.
Why did they tell them that. Because they did not want anyone leaving their control of taxation, by sailing off to new lands. Or even worse starting their own country and then wage war upon them and destroy the power structure. The structure that was used to control people. Facts are a wonderful thing.

How silly is it to believe the earth is flat now? A political viewpoint dis-proven with facts. Now do you see?

Originally posted by antonia
You are yet again confusing academics with politics. How can you prove a political point of view right or wrong?

I already have, twice. Here I will do it again.

Here's another political viewpoint that is getting American troops killed everyday.

"America cannot exist without foreign oil."

The truth is that we could have converted all gas burning engines to alcohol 15 years ago. By the way alcohol burns 98% cleaner than gas. Yes we would still need oil for lubrication. That is true. However it seems to me that their is plenty of oil being let out in the gulf right now. Not to mention that a large oil field was recently found in the Dakotas.

www.wnd.com...

So America can easily exist without foreign oil.

Viewpoint dis-proven again. How about hydrogen engines?
There are thousands of people whom run their vehicles on fuels other than gasoline.

Originally posted by antonia
Ok, since you seem to think I am in some deeply psychotic state why don't you prove your ultimate political truth then?

No, I stated very clearly that people with wrong view points are either psychotic or propagandized, which technically allows one to believe things that are not true without being psychotic.

I think your problem is your not paying close enough attention to the facts.

Isn't that what the elite want? To control everyone?

Originally posted by antonia
I couldn't tell you. You couldn't tell me either.

I guess you didn't read the propaganda definition.

Yes I can and already have. I will gladly wager you $10,000 that I can disprove at least 5 political viewpoints everyday for the rest of my life. That is $10,000 a day by the way, I'll take $100 if you can't afford $10,000.

You see the truth is a wonderful tool to breaking free of control. Don't be so afraid of the truth, it might save your life someday.

GodBlessAll

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2d309136108a.gif[/atsimg]

One way that we can defeat TPTB, the STS (Service to Self) individuals that seem to be running the planet, is if the vast majority of humans woke up from their Matrix slumber, put aside their petty differences and united.

So many people are oblivious to who the real enemy is.

Is it the government, currently headed by Barack Obama? I don't think so.

It is the various corporations that have bought our government. BP is a good example right now of a corporation that can do anything to the planet and it's people and marine life and not really be held accountable.

Our government and it's president are nothing more than puppets. People need to be made aware of who is pulling the strings. Therein lies the real culprit.

From our perspective, the gap between the rich and the poor is a better measure of the health of our economy than the S&P 500 or the Dow. Today, the concentration of privately held wealth at the top is at its highest peak since 1929, the year the financial markets crashed and gave rise to the Great Depression of the 1930s. At that time, 25% of the population was out of work.

Despite our economy being mired in the deepest recession since the 1930s, people in the top 1% continue to own as much wealth as those in the bottom 90%, and education is essential to reversing this trend and constructing a strategy for recovery. www.faireconomy.org...

At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day.Source 1

More than 80 percent of the world’s population lives in countries where income differentials are widening.Source 2

The poorest 40 percent of the world’s population accounts for 5 percent of global income. The richest 20 percent accounts for three-quarters of world income.Source 3

According to UNICEF, 24,000 children die each day due to poverty. And they “die quietly in some of the poorest villages on earth, far removed from the scrutiny and the conscience of the world. Being meek and weak in life makes these dying multitudes even more invisible in death.”Source 4

Around 27-28 percent of all children in developing countries are estimated to be underweight or stunted. The two regions that account for the bulk of the deficit are South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.

If current trends continue, the Millennium Development Goals target of halving the proportion of underweight children will be missed by 30 million children, largely because of slow progress in Southern Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.Source 5

Based on enrolment data, about 72 million children of primary school age in the developing world were not in school in 2005; 57 per cent of them were girls. And these are regarded as optimisitic numbers.Source 6

www.globalissues.org...

As stated before, the real enemy is not our "government", our government was bought out long ago. Sold to a handful of the elite rich.

If anyone out there in ATS Land really wants to know who to blame for all the frap going on all over our planet here is a good link with lots of informational reading.

www.globalissues.org...

Another good article at Global Issues Org is

Too Much Power?

The G8, is made up of the seven most powerful economies of the world, (United States, Japan, Germany, France, UK, Canada, Italy) and Russia. Together they form a very powerful and influential (though informal) group of nations. For example, they accounting for almost 50% of the votes at the IMF and World Bank. At their annual summits they attract a lot of criticism, increasingly now in the mainstream, for failing the world’s poor. This section introduces the G8 with an overview of recent summits and their outcomes.

By virtue of its combined economic, military, and diplomatic power and influence, the G8/G7 can exercise tremendous influence over the multilateral institutions of global governance. This power gives the G8/G7 great influence on the policies, programs, and decisions of the UN Security Council, World Trade Organization (WTO), International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, and Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). This is the case despite the fact that, unlike these institutions, the G8/G7 has no permanent staff, no headquarters, no set of rules governing its operations, and no formal or legal powers. For those negatively impacted by the policy agendas advanced by the G8/G7, and for countries excluded from its deliberations, the G8/G7’s influential role in global governance is highly resented and frequently criticized.

www.globalissues.org...

Corporations
Author and Page informationby Anup ShahThis Page Last Updated Wednesday, November 04, 2009
•This page: www.globalissues.org...
•To print all information e.g. expanded side notes, shows alternative links, use the print version:
•www.globalissues.org...
As the world starts to globalize, it is accompanied by criticism of the current forms of globalization, which are feared to be overly corporate-led. As corporations become larger and multinational, their influence and interests go further accordingly. Being able to influence and own most media companies, it is hard to be able to publicly debate the notions and ideals that corporations pursue. Some choices that corporations take to make profits can affect people all over the world. Sometimes fatally.

Corporations and the Environment
Last updated Saturday, May 25, 2002. (Now think BP Oil Leak)

Many industries such as the energy and fossil fuels industry leave many environmental problems in their wake. Because international lending schemes are tied with “reforms” that include cutting back on regulatory and safety measures such as health, education and the environment, problems can arise without many resources available to deal with them. While large corporations are able to profit, the costs from environmental and other damage has to be borne by the local population.

www.globalissues.org...

IMO: Obama is just another puppet placed into office. He's the PRP but not the real power.

The real powers that be are the 1% richest corporations and the sobs that own them. They are the ones who dictate how the rest of us and our children will live and die.

As long as we Conspiracy Theorists remain divided with our petty differences we won't win this war.

United we stand. Divided we fall.

As long as the majority of people have no real comprehension of who the real enemy is we won't win this war.

As long as the average person does not realize that if my fellow human is hurt, I am also hurt. Too many people only care when the problem hits their own front yard, until then they are apathetic, thinking unemployment, pollution, unfair taxes and laws etc won't affect them.

We are all intimately connected and what affects one affects all of us.

It is time we start to deeply care about and stand up for each other.

The time to get off the fence is now. You are either a STS or STO.

Part of winning any battle is having enough of the correct information. That is why ATS is becoming so popular. Many folks are waking up and realizing that the news on tv is, for the most part corporate propaganda.

The rabbit hole on this issue goes really deep.

'The cost of all of this is being pushed on ordinary people who are being hit with the bill, whether it's in Thailand, Greece or the U.S.,' Bullard said. 'There is a common thread. We have to take a realistic look at the financial sector where money moves from one profit to another without any kind of conscience.'

She said the U.S. Social Forum is not a gathering of a 'bunch of leftist activists' but 'real life people who are living the struggles. It's so real. We actually have to get rid of Wall Street. The era of endless growth and profit is not socially or ecologically viable.' www.globalissues.org...

Half the battle is knowing who the real enemy is.

Next is being a united front, being able to set all differences aside and remain focused.

And that's not going to happen because the majority of people want to remain asleep in their safe little world of servitude to the small group of people behind the curtain.

The richest 1% of adults in the world own 40% of the planet's wealth, according to the largest study yet of wealth distribution. The report also finds that those in financial services and the internet sectors predominate among the super rich. www.guardian.co.uk...

We either hang together or die alone.


[edit on 26-6-2010 by ofhumandescent]

Hi Everybody!

I am new on this forum and this is my first post, so bare with me!!

A little about myself, I live i Denmark and have followed many of the resent post in general for the last 2 months.
I have found many topics and Posts, educational and informative, and just wish I had come across this website earlier.
A lot of the information here, do not reach Denmark, and if it does, it is several weeks/moths later, if ever.

Now to the topic at hand.

I fully agree with the basics of this thread, Spartan among others.
But regarding to "what we as individuals can do" I feel the need to say this.

Eksample
Action: Choose to go into politics and through hard work, try to change the system from within!

Conclusion: It will be very difficult to "win" due to the fact, that the individual will have to sink to "they're" level and therefor "loose".
The individual will not be heard in a political environment, because "our" opinions/Solutions are to radical no matter where "we" are on the moderate/extreme scale.

If you are going to play a game, and you know the game is rigged in your opponents favor, why play??

In my opinion a good leader leads through eksample.

By that I mean, if every member on ATS worldwide started with him/herself and accepted every woman, man and child on this planet as a fellow human being, with no exceptions!
We will have come a long way, I am not saying to accept every action, and there lies the difference.

If every ATS member just tried to help solve problems within his or her's own local community. Without thinking how much money can I make here, or why should it be me to go first.
just help another person because it is the right thing to do.

I know some might think that this could not help, in a million years, but I must disagree.
Because sitting in front of the PC 24/7 searching for new evidence to prove or disprove the new hot conspiracy thread, will defiantly not change anything.

And as state by Spartan earlier.........all talk when push comes to show!

Best regards to all

The Reason the Elite can never win against the conspiracy theorist!

I am me, you are you.

They cannot win, period. It is a forgone conclusion.

Knowledge cannot be suppressed. They tried years ago in another medium. They FAILED.

History does repeat itself SKL.

This TIME, I am hoping this medium makes a difference. I just got done cussing and discussing with a TOTAL stranger (wink wink). He knew EXACTLY what we are dealing with. A draconian nightmare, that can only control you if you do not realize it is a dream!

We are but a leaf on the wind, see us soar!

Be an information soldier in an Army of ONE, where NO ONE can follow, only LEAD.

The endisnighe for the tyrants. Truthfully, the endisnighe.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas




If the entire membership of ATS however were to get serious about politics, they might actually get worried, seeing as that is their world.


[edit on 26-6-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Reason No. 1 why we cant win.
The sheeple worship money and the elite,especially in the USA. There is a natural urge to want to surrender to something or someone,Freud called it the death wish. It is our true spiritual nature but used by the elite to get people to surrender to them.

Reason No. 2 why we cant win.

Ordinary people simply cant go into politics.

Politics is the Domain of the warrior person. The warrior person is someone who lives from the point of view of the Third Chakra, the Chakra of Power. Otherwise known as the solar plexus. (They have the stomach for the fight)
They enjoy fighting with other people. It feeds their energy. They are the Alpha People.

The ordinary person is a Second Chakra person. They do not like to confront people and especially Third Chakra people. If an ordinary person goes into politics it will constantly stress them out.

2B
It takes a high IQ (140)with good verbal abilities, to be a good politician. Only a few people have that. GB + 0 with an IQ of 125 were mediocre puppets.

Reason No. 3
Ninety percent of the people in politics are corrupted by the time they get there. So even if a decent person got to position of power they would be surrounded by so many corrupt persons that they couldnt do much if they tried.

Reason No. 4
Fear makes cowards of us all.
People dont want to risk losing their comforts. Change is dangerous.

Reason No. 5
Divide and Conquer
They Elite have deliberately divided the nation with an invasion of immigrants. These have a different IQ,Different Culture,Different Language,Different Race,Different Economic level,Different Religion,Different Levels of Violence.
These people have two goals,to achieve the American Dream of becoming rich and to increase their numbers so they are a majority in control.

5B
Then there are the divisions of POLITICS IS PERSONALITY.
Republican people are predator personalities.
Libertarian people are independent personalities.
Democrat people are Altruistic personalities.
Each individual sees the political issues through their personality not through logic. Thus there cant be any agreement.

5C
Divide by:Race,Sex,Religion,Sexual Orientation,Culture,Nationality,Age,
Wealth,Health,Patriotism,etc.

Reason No. 6
The elite control the mainstream media.
They portray the rich and the government, as the ones who create jobs,and the ones who protect us.

Reason No. 7 (mentioned by other poster)
The elite are psychopaths capable of eliminating their opposition by violence. The Kennedy assassination.

Reason No. 8
The people are low IQ and getting lower are simply not capable of
comprehending these ideas , even the simple idea of class war.
Warren Buffet-"There is a class war and my class is winning."

Reason No. 9 (mention by other poster)
Religion is the opiate of the masses and keeps them distracted.

Reason No. 10
There is no common Ideology.

Reason No. 11
The police state with 2.2 million in prison 75 percent for drugs,gambling or prostitution. CIA,FBI,NSA,Military INdustrial Complex. Anyone can be framed for drug charges at any time,tortured,and disappeared.

Reason No. 12
Corruption in Government from the bottom to the top.

Reason No. 13
Secret Societies for the elite,skull and bones,billderbergers,trilateral commission,etc allow the elite to coordinate their schemes so they think
and act as one.

Reason No. 14
People are Spiritually Asleep. Thus people identify themselves with their
thoughts. If you challenge their thoughts they will take it as a personal
attack on their Ego and will violently confront you. We are not our thoughts.
We are consciousness.

Reason No. 15
Stockholm syndrome. Which is when someone begins to identify with their
oppressor due to stress and fear. It is a literal breakdown of the mind.

Reason No. 16
The military will support the elite as long as they are getting what they
want, which is an almost endless military budget and the right to wage
war almost anywhere they want.

Reason No. 17
The use of gradualism and incrementalism to manipulate the sheeple.

Reason No. 18
Bread and circuses.

Reason No. 19
Disarming the sheeple. The 2nd amendment has to a large extent been eviscerated. Almost no one is allowed to carry a loaded concealed weapon,or even a loaded open weapon, while the cops are armed like soldiers and the criminals are in armed gangs.

Reason No. 20
Technology will allow the elite to track every person of interest in the country. ID chips,paperless money and computers will allow them to know where you are at all times. Brain scans may allow them to know what you are thinking. Genetic testing may allow them to know whether you have undesirable traits.

Reason No. 21
The elite can control vital resources because they are centralized. Water,electricity,natural gas,gasoline and phone lines can all be controlled from a central location easily. Food distribution can also be controlled since almost everyone depends on imported food.

The Elite are drunk on power. What they crave is literal slavery,rape,torture and war. They want absolute power. How else
can you explain 5 members of the SCOTUS ruling that life in prison
for stealing a slice of pizza is justice. The sheeple live vicariously through
the Elite and their actions. Thus they dance with the Devil. "We have
met the enemy and he is us."-Pogo


Hope

Most Ruling Elite eventually fall after a long time.
The pharaohs were replaced by the Greeks.
The Israelites were driven out by the Romans.
Nations conquer other nations. Kings are killed.
Rome fell,possibly due to lead poisoning.
The Mayan elite were defeated by smallpox.
Hitler was defeated by the Allies.
The Czar was taken out by the communists.
Stalin and communism eventually bankrupted Russia.
The North Vietnamese drove out the american elite.
Natural disasters,overpopulation,global warming,ice age,famine.

The Elite always seem to return because they are us. Perhaps
with genetic improvements and engineering we can create a
classless society existing in peace.

Until then:
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell





























[edit on 27-6-2010 by RRokkyy]

Cass Sunstein, Obama's regulatory czar, wrote about banning conspiracy theories. He wrote "We can readily imagine a series of possible responses. (1) Government might ban conspiracy theorizing. (2) Government might impose some kind of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories."

He also wrote a book called Nudge, where he spoke about how you can't force people to do what you want, but you, with regulations, nudge people in the direction you want them to go.

Look how we incrementally lost our individual rights over the last 20 years with the Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama cabal.

We can't win against the elite as they play us like a fiddle, and we let them.

Someone has to have the eyes and the intestinal fortitude to look at the cold dark world as it is and not how those with their fingers on the buttons of power would like us to see. Keep the masses happy with bread in the bellies, mundane and repetitious jobs, entertainment on over a hundred channels, and sporting events. The idle mind is the Devil's play thing, and apparently the establishment feels that way or they would not work over time to hinder our abilities to ponder, be creative, and to think critically about what is going on around us. Now are we playing a game of win or lose? Maybe some may think that way, and that is their opinion.

However, as I see it, I am not to trying to cram anything down someone's throat or force feed them. Hopefully, I can educate just one to look outside the box and to see that things are not so neat and tidy. If it spurns them to research on their own, I consider that a victory and a win. Although it may be small and seemingly immaterial in the greater scheme of things, but Rome was not built in a day.

Things are in disarray and humanity is about to get one big swift kick in the rear. The reality we have before us is an illusion. Peel back the scab and one will find a heck of a lot of puss beneath. Moreover, the world as it is now is only a facade and smoking mirrors. Everything is held together with r bubblegum and rubberbands.

Zero hour is at hand, and it is imperative that as many people as possible think critically about what they see and or are told by the MSM and our politicians. Nothing should be taken for granted any longer, because as I see it; the ship is being scuttled at this very instant. So, if the people want to ignore the environment around them, they do so at their own peril. All we can do is try and help our family, friends, and coworkers pull the wool from over their eyes. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by Jakes51]

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

A win is a victory.

...and...

We're winning!

]

Political ideologies have two dimensions:

1.Goals: how society should work (or be arranged).

2.Methods: the most appropriate ways to achieve the ideal arrangement.

Yes, yes,
We you net ideology.

1. Goal
self-replicating atom tribes.
We can do it you with we.

2. Method
self-sustaining groups.
with replicating fabrication laboratories.
Seedball forest gardening for food.

There is zero unity between us but there is 100% unity between the elite.

There is zero belief of any one thing between all of us and 100% belief between the elite.

There is zero agreeing political ideology between us and 100% agreeing political ideology between the elite.

It's not nearly so black and white dear sir.
There is indeed the shade called gray.

We as the conspiracy theorist community, whether it is ATS, Info Wars, or AmKon have such differing opinions, perspectives, beliefs, and education levels.

But we outnumber the elite 100 to 1 as far as live bodies are concerned.

However, we cannot seem to agree upon one set thing, or one set ideal.

Sure we can agree on nothing.

Nothing is a great starting point of mutual reality.

:-) before anything there be nothing.

so the infinite spark is there.


What would you like to do?
do it.

A constitution starting from nothing:

0. let entity be nothing or do nothing
1. let entity be aware or do sense
2. let entity be desirer or do satisfy
3. let entity be free or do choose

4. let entity be stable or do commitments
5. let entity be wise or do express
6. let entity be sage or do intuit
7. let entity be traveler or do move

8. let entity be local or do homestead
9. let entity be planetary or do environmentalism
10. let entity be solar system or do space flight
11. let entity be galactic or do commune with stars
12. let entity be universal or do intersect
13. let entity be multiversal or do union
14. let entity be metaversal or do mix
15. let entity be eternal or do infinite

[edit on 26-6-2010 by lowki]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


The most verbose thread I have ever read...OK, skimmed. I will be honest. I hate the play devil's advocate but perhaps you may want to consider the situation in context.

There have always been people or groups of people (call them elites if you will) surfing on the backs of everybody and everything else. The machinations of power have changed little. The reasons have changed little.

SKL, if you were to look back in history, when was there a better time to unite the masses against the elites? When were the tools to do so more easily at hand? When would it happen so fast with instant, world wide communication? When would have there been so many of "us" compared to the relatively constant number of "them"? When has so much information as ammunition been available? Of course this does not make it easier but these are positives to consider.

If you are dead set on getting into politics, so be it. You might want to check out you local city hall shenanigans for a primer first. That should be enough to demonstrate there must be smarter roads to gain the public awakening you seek.

The last little bit of context we should consider is how small a percentage of a population is required to send that society in a different direction. It can be done with only a few.

...either that or I am working on an invisibility cloak and a death ray. As soon as they are up and running, I will be hiring my services out as an Elite Exterminator. For a fellow ATSer, the price would be very reasonable.

reply to post by AceWombat04


It's always great when we can discuss things to this extent with each other.

If we came together as your questions asks, it is my personal belief that we might actually become a positive force within the world, shirk off the stigma of "crazy nutcases" that the elite try so ineptl to collar us with, and be a group of individuals who not only make a positive impact, but unite the rest of the world to tell Government no more lies.

No, I see they have zero plans for any type of unity ever happening between us. Quite simply because of that fringe element status, because we sit in a genre already stigmatized, it is easy to not only divide and conquer us, but selectively disjoint us according to our already unpopulous beliefs, those according to the mainstream which makes us the fringe element itself, a skepticism of what is told to the world. The elite are so self-confident, that we can be riled up, made to look the fool, and be pushed off the edges of reality.

Quite simply because of a lack of cooperation within the community itself. I will use one example of a thread type as a prime example, without the elite's, but with those the conspiracy theory community see more often than not as their lapdogs, which is Law Enforcment as a whole. Any time a thread is created, either positive or negative, about those within the Law Enforcement community, it trends towards the "Cop-hating" speech because of such a negative view.

It does not matter if the thread is about a story where a Police Officer saved some lady from a domestic violence issue, or if the thread is about marijuana and the laws covering it, or even Obama's Beer Summit, it turns and it turns fast towards hating on Cop's completely.

Now, while I certainly agree there is corruption within Law Enforcement, it is not the entire community of Police Officer's which is to blame, but often a select few, albeit it might seem more, it is not. Or an Officer has a bad day and is what appears to be abusive, or even the perpetrator reminds someone of a family member or friend, or even the power itself, but no matter what it is, this unity is the wrong type of unity within this community, that of the conspiracy theory community. I have jumped into those types of threads only to read and understand, and I often see mistakes or what I can see as an error due to my knowledge, and correct it, only to be hounded upon as friend of a Cop, or a Cop-lover, or whatever, but what I see more often than not is hatred poured out because people quite simply do not see these fine indivuduals have a job to do.

Whether we agree with them or not, whether we like the laws or not, there is a job for them to do, which is respond when they are called. You know what? I do not agree with 100% of America's laws at all. But I do not take it out upon the working man enforcing the laws. I know who exactly makes the laws, the three branches of Government. And above them, whether we always agree with it or not, is those within the Secret Societies, holding power over Government. Or more often than not being within Government itself in select positions. If we as a community itself, do not comprehend that then we are sadly a lost cause. We have the ability though to change those laws. Not just through voting, this is just the start of our responsibility. But through being a positive force for change within society.

You ask who is to lead us, and of it being a movement, and whee corruption can manifest itself because of history where the ambitious and driven can be corrupted, and I agree with you if it is one person. However, what if everyone stepped forwards simultaneously? Not one leader, leading us, but ourselves being responsible for our action more. Yes, I agree, the conspiracy theory community is and has always been infiltrated by "disinformation specialists".

You will notice I did not just say is, but always has been, because we are seen as a threat, a recruiting tool towards violent actions because of the fringe element. This is often the job of Agent Provocateurs. People whe seek out violent or unstable individuals, and they crank them up into action. And we get something like Timothy McVeigh happening. And he gets chucked in with us whether he was ever connected to us or not. I'm not saying he was connected ever to the conspiracy theory community to begin with, but he is a fringe element himself, what most of us call a False-Flag Operation.

What if however, his actions while heinous, actually had started out as a positive intent, and he was isolated because of a troubled past and semi-violent nature?

And if instead of necessarily speaking of conspiracy theories about him, we took an initiative, to speak out against his actions, as heinous. No matter if we believe it was a False-Flag Operations, or a terrorist activity by a white supremecist tied to extremism or not, we can influence how someone in connected to the fringe element or not.

The movie Arlington Road comes to mind when I speak of False-Flag Operations.

Arlington Road Trailer


And a thread I created about not letting someone push us into negative actions.

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You

Your questions about the combined ideology and those of us not agreeing with it becoming the fringe within a fringe is something to consider. But here's the thing, we speak of so many topics, we touch so many countries, and we think so many things it is difficult at first to be unified to begin with, but before we actually try to do that, we need a common goal, more so than just to Deny Ignorance. We have an extremely diverse community, because of our topics, we have membership from around the world, and our combined thinking has never been unified, but what if we actually had a way to do that and through it gain significance within our society?

The conspiracy theory community is a society in and of itself.

A singularly insulated and isolated one where we agree to disagree.

About what, why, where, when, who, and how people do things outside.

What if as a community, a society, we began to not just talk, but teach, form a bank, create jobs within our community, disseminate information outside of the conspiracy theory community?

I'm not saying it is impossible nor am I trying to say any one person should lead it, but that we are a community, is undeniable, why don't we start acting like a community then?

And I mean more so than we currently are doing now with our thoughts.

If we began doing simple things like those above I believe that the limiting of a fringe within a fringe might be reduced instantly, and we could actually rise above pettiness, a lack of action, and actually make an impact.

That is something for the Administration to consider though and maybe I will make a thread based around it, more in detail, and put it forward to the community as a whole, and see where it leads, without leading it.

I agree with you about more proactive measure of the nature which you mention, about discovering things, and bringing to bear witness if it ceases a violent action towards anyone, because I do not want to see more death within this world, it is far too often we agree on that.

That we are sitting here, and a negative action polarizes us to speak, and therefore theorize is great, but speaking only gets us so far.

But what if it polarized us to do more than speak but actually act?

We as a community have the combined intelligence to make a policy think-tank.

What if our first policy was to deny actions of people like Timothy McVeigh?

Quote from : Wikipedia : Policy

A policy is typically described as a principle or rule to guide decisions and achieve rational outcome(s).

The term is not normally used to denote what is actually done, this is normally referred to as either procedure or protocol.

Whereas a policy will contain the 'what' and the 'why', procedures or protocols contain the 'what', the 'how', the 'where', and the 'when'.

Policies are generally adopted by the Board of or senior governance body within an organisation where as procedures or protocols would be developed and adopted by senior executive officers.

The term may apply to government, private sector organizations and groups, and individuals.

Presidential executive orders, corporate privacy policies, and parliamentary rules of order are all examples of policy.

Policy differs from rules or law.

While law can compel or prohibit behaviors (e.g. a law requiring the payment of taxes on income), policy merely guides actions toward those that are most likely to achieve a desired outcome.

Policy or policy study may also refer to the process of making important organizational decisions, including the identification of different alternatives such as programs or spending priorities, and choosing among them on the basis of the impact they will have.

Policies can be understood as political, management, financial, and administrative mechanisms arranged to reach explicit goals.

By denying him I mean much more than to speak negatively of his actions.

I am referring to of course our combined coming together and sending a letter of denial of knowledge of his actions, from the community, and that we see him as not a part of our community or our particular fringe.

Imagine a press release, form our website, on maybe ATS Live or the Conspiracy Chicks.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Think-Tank

A think tank (or policy institute) is an organization or individual that conducts research and engages in advocacy in areas such as social policy, political strategy, economy, science or technology issues, industrial or business policies, or military advice.

Many think tanks are non-profit organizations, which some countries such as the United States and Canada provide with tax exempt status.

Other think tanks are funded by governments, advocacy groups, or businesses, or derive revenue from consulting or research work related to their projects.

According to the National Institute for Research Advancement, think tanks are "one of the main policy actors in democratic societies ..., assuring a pluralistic, open and accountable process of policy analysis, research, decision-making and evaluation".

A study in early 2009 found a total of 5,465 think tanks worldwide. Of that number, 1,777 were based in the United States and approximately 350 in Washington DC alone.

Imagine how interested the world might be about the conspiracy theory community if only we spoke out.

Originally posted by thetruthplease
I disagree to this post simply because I know that the elite has now spent trillions of dollars to hide the truth from us.

Are you addressing myself or someone else?

Just trying to clarify to who you are speaking.

And can you point out to me with evidence provided where those trillions of dollars are spent against us in hiding the truth?

Please, I would love to see that, in writing in a Government expenditure.

Originally posted by thetruthplease
Everytime we get the truth out we WIN.

Everytime!

Really?

When and were was the media broadcast that said anything but negative comments about us within the conspiracy theory community?

We are labeled as nutcases.

Originally posted by thetruthplease
We also waste their money each time, and while at the same time making them look foolish by stating the truth that then shows how out of grasp with reality they are.

Show me the evidence of this statement, please.

While I can understand where you're coming from, and I see you definitely might have a valid opinion, I want proof to that statement, please.

I am just growing tired of our impact being invisible.

Originally posted by thetruthplease
What do you think this people do when their alone. They regret themsleves. They are constanly guarding their backs as the people they do business with are just as low as they are. These people are in a constant state of fear. Which is eactly why they wish to case a ever increasing state of fear upon us.

Do you really think we are a blip on the radar of the elite?

Originally posted by thetruthplease
So thanks for all of your work in conspiracies. It does make a different.

Only the TRUTH can set you free.

Yes, the Central Intelligence Agency has that posted on their lobby wall.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/590107f347a3.jpg[/atsimg]

Quite catchy if you ask me.

Where is our granite facades and wall commemorating our veterans?

Yes, my work within the conspiracy theory community, it has been hard.

But it and always has been a pleasant experience.

Originally posted by LestatG
A great thread, some intersting and well thought out responses. I have to intend to agree with OP on the terms that we use now. However, if something small changes this can change the rules somewhat.

I thought there are some awesome replies so far, yours included.

Originally posted by LestatG
In regards to what unites us, I agree that it would be difficult to physically unite. But a thread springs to mind where in was explained how people with a shared ideology can work on their own and still come to the common goal.

Can you drop that link in your reply this post, please?

Originally posted by LestatG
Think about it, Spartan touched on it when he said that we need to individually act to change things, doing the right thing even when there is no one to witness the act or no way of recognition. This is how we will beat them. Joe public getting onwith thier lives but doing acts toward a common goal or idealology.

Correct.

If people panic due to paranoia it will only get them dead.

Something we do not want to happen.

Just Because You're Paranoid, Doesn't Mean They Aren't Out To Get You...

Originally posted by LestatG
If no one knows what your doing you can't be stopped. On the way to work, drop of that letter to the government official, give the guy on the street some change, join a movement, hell just say hello to a stranger. Then you will have contributed even a little, after a while who knows what you can achieve.

Try it, if we all did we would be on the right track!

[edit on 25/6/2010 by LestatG]

As long as it is legal, commiting legal and non-violent action, by all means.

Originally posted by antonia
When did anyone get a monopoly on truth?

Apparently Government believes it owns the monopoly on truth?

Originally posted by antonia
Truth is a subjective idea. It depends on your point of view. Now, I'm going to get a lot of people screaming at me for saying that. I get called a pinko-commie liberal socialist progressive asshat all the time around here, but what I said was correct. What the truth is depends on who you are talking to.

Perspective is the key to everything.

The person having their ass handed to them in a fight, sure is not going to see the other guy as someone nice and friendly, now are they?

You will get called none of those names by me.

But then again I know the difference between facts, evidence, and propaganda.

Truth : The First Victim, The Last to Be Un-Buried, Never to Rest...

Originally posted by antonia
This isn't some problem, this is reality. The problem is that many people are so egotistically attached to their world view. They just have to be right. They have everything emotionally invested in being right. No one cares if it works. They just want to win.

You are correct.

People are often stuck within their own little world.

One where people know them and they know people.

Yet when events like Dealey Plaza, Oklahoma City, or 9/11 pop into their world, they cannot see or know anything but the "official story", because of dogmatic beliefs.

And the same can be said for those who immediately refuse the "official story".

Neither side ever finds a middle ground, a base of common ground, and then decides.

It is who will win their argument to defend their side without ever finding the "truth".

Originally posted by antonia
And what is a win? Is it just getting the "Elite" out? Of course not, you leave a vacuum that is going to be filled by something. It's likely over time it will become just as bad as what it replaced. Is a win just getting the "truth" out? You have to remember truth is dependent on one's point of view again. Not everyone is going to buy your line or agree with everything you say. Is a win improving the general well-being of the population? Well, that's gonna be subjective.

Of course.

Originally posted by antonia
Then you have the problem of the general atmosphere around here. People can't accept that other believe something different. They feel personally insulted when others don't share their point of view. This isn't some kind of sports game yet it's reduced to that everyday. Of course no one takes you guys seriously. Who would want to speak to someone who insults them constantly by calling them a "sheep" or "ignorant"? Who would want anything to do with someone who seems to think ill of those who don't share their beliefs? I sure as hell wouldn't want to talk to you.

And this is why I search for the middle of the pile of evidence and facts.

I understand not everyone will have my perspective, nor will everyone have lived the same life, just as not everyone will have the same education levels.

For Heaven's sake not all of us can agree any one fact within the conspiracy theories.

I know a few I can agree with everyone on right off the bat.

J.F.K. was shot, that's not disputed, what is disputed is by who and how many.

Oklahoma City had the Murrah Building blow up, that's not disputed, what is disputed is by who, and if he had help, the same as Dealey Plaza, a pattern emerges.

9/11 had 4 planes go down, that is disputed, 3 buildings were hit, that is disputed, 19 people were pointed out as collaborative conspirators, that is disputed.

Originally posted by Robert Reynolds
The problem is that most people in the West are 'OK' and are the decendants of parents that lived 'OK' lives as well. The masses aren't going to riot or spend all their time protesting unless the MSM that they have such blind faith in, effectively tells them to. No serious movement can take place with only a tiny percentage of people ('conspiracy nuts') taking part. We'd be terrorists, and terrorists that spent most of their time still playing the pride-fuelled games of one-upmanship that is the very basis of the ruling elites 'evil'. This system is something that we're all part of and all trapped by.

As far as I can see, nothing can save us now except for a miracle.

...but guess what you might just get.

Well, the Mainstream Media, will never tell us to riot, unless it is a trap.

No one is asking anyone to riot and or overthrow anyone, at least not me.

What I am asking however is for people to see that their sitting around grousing.

Instead of actually doing anything useful.

Originally posted by Rabaski
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

In my humble experience I can say that what you are saying is very true. I would just like to raise an idea.

Could it be that our different points of view and varied believe is what unites us as a community here at ATS. I would like to use an example.

A writer in South Africa, Koos Kombuis, wrote in a local newspaper here, what is a South African? He mentioned that if you think of a Aussie, an American or a Pommie for example you have a certain stereotype image in your mind of what they would look like.

Then he went on to ask the question 'What image do you see if you think of what a South African looks like?' and I couldn't. We are too diverse, colours creeds and religions. His final conclusion was that maybe it is our diversity and differences, yet our ability to live together that make us so unique and thus a South African.

Sorry for the long story but the point I would like to make, as I stated at the top of my post is that maybe it is this diversity that we can apply to connect us as people.

I believe everyone, or at least the majority of people frequenting this site has the same dream in their hearts. We must look at what makes us similar instead of what makes us different.

Exactly my point.

Look to how we are alike instead of picking ourselves apart.

We are in what is essentially our own community, a society itself, but we act like we are all outcasts, drifters, and or vagrants of regular society, which we shun.

Okay, so we are different, so what, that which makes us different, makes us unique.

Originally posted by superluminal11
They know that we are all interconnected and there is no separation. In the Secret Covenant this is explained. The main message is individuality and not collective. We cant be collective because that would be socialist and communism. Collective is a bad thing and is along the lines of One World Order evil ideology .

Well, I disagree, because I see Socialism and Communism as bad.

Yes, we are individuals, acting individually, but why not act better, individually?

I mean as LestatG pointed out we can change society around us as we see fit.

But we have to be willing to change it one small part at a time.

Originally posted by superluminal11
They allow us to speak of many of these true things. From Lizard people to JFK. They know we will never come into agreement across the board and will continue to fight amongst each other. So what if there are lizard people and the US orchestrated 911. We get caught up into details and like you said,,,never come into agreement

This is quite right there is not synchronicity.

Originally posted by superluminal11
Some of the Secret Societies/Orders/Corps in-fight but always come to a common ideology where they all come into agreement. We cannot seem to do this as conspiracy theory researchers

[edit on 25-6-2010 by superluminal11]

That's just it, all the Secret Societies are constantly feuding, infighting all the time.

And we are usually caught up in it in the middle as victims.

So, can e not set aside our differences, long enough to come to an agreement?

I believe we can.

Instead of setting up the premise that a "win" can never happen due to political ideology, why not just educate people about how to avoid the pitfalls and carry on?

And I disagree that TPTB are all that unified. There are factions among them and their minions and many fluid alliances that provide chinks in their armor.

As for revolution, the only thing that would work would be to attack the only thing they care about. Money. Stop giving it to them. And stop allowing us to steal it from us.