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Originally posted by theability
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
Right now I think out of character for the US, would be for us to do something! Actually get together once again as a nation and demand Leadership from our elected officials. I haven't seen one session of congress in the last 20 years that hasn't started with, Raising their salaries!
PATHETIC!
Originally posted by theability
Bugs is the best in the world when it comes to thinking in the fast lane with adversaries. If all leader thought like he did the country wouldn't be in the position it is today. Sad that a cartoon character has more moral standing than our elected leaders!
Originally posted by theability
Think about all the fear they generate through this one thing, if we don't have the money we cannot protect you.
Originally posted by theability
Sad that our system is so sick and corrupted. But I have seen that Democracy is the system that tolerates the most internal corruption of all government systems abroad.
Originally posted by theability
The sad thing is, when a true threat presents itself, the system we have let slide into to place isn't going to protect anyone, except the elite that control it. Thus leaving the people to rot, while the few elitist are off hiding from the true threat somewhere else.
There is no police to serve and protect. There is not politicians that are for the people. Why doesn't the country see this and Demand Action?
Ahh that is right, American Idol right? Don't get me started on the Lie Box (TV)
Originally posted by theability
Like that would ever ever happen. I look forward to the day that the money isn't worth a thing and the system falls apart, then moving on to barter and living in unison maybe....
Originally posted by theability
Ohh there doing it for them, taking the money and running.
Originally posted by theability
Again the reason why they powers do not want us to get along ever!
Originally posted by theability
The biggest threat to any government is the realization by the masses that, "Hey we can do this without the government, lets cut the cord!"
Originally posted by theability
Again the corruption of giving raises as first order every term is sickening to say the least.
Being an elected official should be honorary not paid!
Originally posted by theability
The typical election these days is all about dirt on the other party and not about what truth about office is about, the People and the plans for the future country.
Originally posted by theability
Like in Ohio when 340,000 dead people woke from the grave and voted?
Originally posted by theability
I guess no one gets the threat of don't ask the obvious, right?
Originally posted by theability
...And we need create a new pear harbor to instill this change, so that it won't take a century, but a few years to manifest.
The country is in hijack stasis.
The conspiracy continues
[edit on 25-6-2010 by theability]
Originally posted by hawkiye
I wouldn't say never. We are indeed divided and the level of unity needed to rise up so to speak and reclaim our power seems a pipe dream at the moment. However some unifying force or incident can change all that. A good example is WWII. Most of the country was divided or disinterested in that war until pearl harbor and then the country united to fight it.
Originally posted by hawkiye
Now I know much of the conspiracy associated with it but am just using it as an example of a unifying force or incident. Also indeed the powers that be have used thier own incidents such as the tonkin gulf or 9/11 to unite the people to go along with there plans in Vietnam and Iraq etc.
Originally posted by hawkiye
I have hope at some point America and perhaps the world will have some unifying event/s to help usher in a new age of peace and enlightenment. I believe it will happen but cannot say when or how. However there are many things in play right now that could potentially serve that purpose. Like the Gulf leak, the economy, and unemployment, foreclosures etc. Or perhaps a combination of all of it will hit a critical mass and enough people will unite. I know it seems unlikely at the moment but at some point that will change IMO.
[edit on 25-6-2010 by hawkiye]
Originally posted by DISRAELI
There is actually a much more fundamental reason than the ones which have been gven so far.
From the postings on ATS, it is evident that a conspiracy theorist regards anyone who has power as a member of "the elite".
This means that it is impossible, simply by definition, that the elite can be removed from power. The elite will ALWAYS be in power, in the eyes of conspiracy theorists.
So the assumptions of conspiracy theorists make it impossible for them to believe that they have "won" against the elite. If they cannot believe they have won, they cannot win.
Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
Woa. I just had an idea. Bare with me for a sec.
What if we had someone running for president and his whole deal was that he didn't tell you what his political goals were, instead he informed us that YOU, his voters, would decide the issues before the election process?
You could have a website that people could log onto and put up ideas for goals to be addressed. You could then have people vote for the best goals.
You could network on the streets to get the word out. Little business cards with brilliant logo's, trendy & powerful slogans, and of course the web addy.
It would empower the people! Rid us of our apathy !!
Thoughts?
[edit on 25-6-2010 by unityemissions]
Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
"You could have a website that people could log onto and put up ideas for goals to be addressed. You could then have people vote for the best goals."
It would not work because 95% of the people would vote for what they want, instead of what they need. These are the same idiots who waste their lives watching mindless TV shows and prefer to have others think for them.
The elite know what they're doing. If you give morons too much power, in the end, they'll end up screwing it up for everybody. In fact, the same applies for intelligent people. Looks like we're doomed one way or the other. Oh well...
Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by SphinxMontreal
My naivety got the best of me . .
Oh well.
Originally posted by Amagnon
Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by theability
Hell no - you are way off with this. The government has no right to secrecy AT ALL! There should be NO SECRETS apart from deployment and technical data of defensive capabilities - everything else MUST be known.
End Quote
(Sorry folks, I am still learning how to master technology and I do have much to learn navigating this site)
This response I have quoted made a valuable contribution to the OP's evidence of why things will remain as they are. In this one paragraph the responding author contradicted a statement with a "yes, but...". I am not singling the author out to be derogatory because he or she made a valuable contribution in support of the OP's claim: We are our own worst enemy.
I want to further point out how we are persuaded by our own beliefs to support a system that offers more hardships than benefits. The belief system we have right now is filled with "Yes, but.." and "No, but..." and that is our downfall as theorists. It is also the driving down force behind our cultural problems. Play on words is all that an ideal is when it is not or cannot be put into action. We are unwilling to be decisive in a black and white manner because, as the OP pointed out, we are not unified. We look for the shades of gray to make every action and every belief acceptable, the not so bad, the lessor evil, and we allow ourselves to be succombed by a false sense of accomplishment when we cast a vote in a democratic society.
How does one man command thousands of slaves? It is because the slaves let him command. The working class has the most power in the world but are either unaware of it or if they are aware of their power, they do not know how to use it or are afraid to use it. Thus, the reason we will never win is because our ideals are flowered with "yes, but" and "no, but" and that one practice allows a couple thousand men to command billions of slaves.
Just because something is thought does not mean the thought can erase the negative consequence of an action or create a benefit where no benefit exists in the physical world. We do not spend our time thinking of the physical world when we preach without practice.
I am not for or against religion and I really hate to even bring this topic up because it is going to be the focus of so many off topic replies; unfortunately, I can think of no other stronger support for the OP's post. Please read the rest before making a false assumption of where I am heading with this.
I know people believe and they encourage belief in others. Religion is a part of our cultural heritage and should not be dismissed on a whim because it offers valuable insight to the human belief system regarding human behavior and allows us to see how one man can command a thousand slaves. Thousands of years later, we are still practicing the same behaviors as our ancestors; the reasons following "Yes, but.." is the only difference. That is why theorists who uncover potential conspiracies will never win.
Knowledge is power if it works in unison with actions. Knowledge is defeated by "yes, but.." belief systems. Ignorance is bliss because the guilt that comes from knowing has its own negative consequences in a "yes, but" society. How many times have you had to force yourself to do something knowing it was not going to be a positive outcome and you used "yes, but..." to justify your decision.
Just because you are offered choice A or the lessor evil of choosing B does not mean you cannot hold out and choose C but we are programmed to believe our choices are limited and we are given the option after the fact of choosing a scapegoat.
The conspiracy is promoted by the slaves and the conspirators just ride the luxury wagon knowing the masses will never accept the power that every human being is born with. The terrible two's, why is it so terrible? Because that is the turning point in every human beings' social development. A toddler asks why and the parent has no answer other than because I said.
Well, the shoe is on the other foot. When we adults ask our master why, we are given that very same answer. That is just the way things are and we go merrily on about our business. Well...some of the "us" does while others want more clarification and that, my friends is what a conspiracy theorist does: compares the answers to the actions and never stops asking why. "Yes, but.." is not an acceptable belief system in a conspiracy theorist's culture.
[edit on 25-6-2010 by peggy m]
Originally posted by gravykraken
the question was raised in the OP:
"what is the point?"
for many of us i don't think there was a conscious decision to one day wake up a "conspiracy theorist". for most of us is was probably a slow progression toward what seemed to be the natural, dare i say logical path according to individual experience. would there then even be a point? maybe. words have been known to write as much history as war.
Originally posted by gravykraken
for some of us this isn't so much about theory, but more about the sum of life experience. life experience has taught many of us that the police, courts, and government are not be trusted, thereby eliminating most political ideologies from prudence. there is no taking back what is seen after peeking behind the curtain. some creep up quietly and sneak-a-peek, some have the curtains drawn back for them, wide and dramatically.
Originally posted by gravykraken
isn't it the same as asking the age old question: "why are we here, what is the meaning of life?"
Originally posted by gravykraken
it's either a hobby, or your world view. as a theory, what we "believe" is minimized, placed in the realm of triviality. as an eye-witness, there is no theory behind political corruption. yes, it exists. isn't it important then? yes, BUT, many more aspects of life seem to take precedent. the bills must be paid, the kids must be fed, gotta change the oil, gotta fix the roof... all of that takes a back seat to what is shaking on capital hill. most people do not see how it all relates. they do not see that what is going down on capital hill (and back-room meetings) has every bit to do with how the bills get paid.
Originally posted by gravykraken
in general, people seem to know, or assume that all politicians are crooks and liars. still, come election time they pretend that voting matters and theirs is the man for the job. they have come to accept that it is in the job description. to be a good politico you better be a great liar. everyone seems to agree and consent. that is why it is allowed to stand. we tolerate it. it is accepted as "just the way it is".
Originally posted by gravykraken
a good friend asked the same question: "why don't we get involved in politics?"
Originally posted by gravykraken
pushing for a fair handed agenda would be like asking for a magic bullet in the tie knot, or to be rubbed out by some "lone nut" gunman. thats why we don't do politics. we know that crusaders are made into martyrs, at best. no one really wants to be made an example of what happens to those that buck the system. i wouldn't say that fear is to blame as much as an overwhelming sense of insurmountability.
Originally posted by gravykraken
besides, (imo) it takes a special kind of scum to even want to get involved with politics. for reasons stated above. at some point you WILL be made to compromise your principles, especially if they are firmly grounded in "doing the right thing". my friend went on to get involved with politics, starting out as a senatorial campaign worker. on more than one occasion he turned up at my house in the middle of the night in fear for his life because he somehow, in passing, managed to slight someone with powerful friends and vast resources. F that scene.
Originally posted by gravykraken
even MLK was allowed to carry on for a good bit. it was okay for him to decry social injustice for minorities, and to preach racial harmony, but as soon as he spoke of the money changers in the temple... blam, we get a new holiday.
Originally posted by gravykraken
which brings me to another point. at some point ALL policy flies out the window, and that is the point at which economics enter the picture. there is no law of the land when the highest law in the land is a sell out. even the lowest levels of the justice system are motivated purely by their potential as a resource for revenue.
Originally posted by gravykraken
the OP is right. the elite have their unifying god. it serves them as well as they serve it.
Originally posted by gravykraken
even victory is shallow. a scandal is uncovered, it makes headlines, yet no heads roll.
great thread/posts SKL.
I agree.
There is no way in Hell these bastards should get to vote their own pay raises.
Last time I checked this is the only "corporate structure" that does this criminal action.
Damn, if we were allowed to vote ourselves pay raises for our jobs, I would be making trillions of dollars per year, instead of living out of my car right now.
It sure as Hell must be nice to control your own paycheck from start to finish.
That's it like a nail in a coffin. Many people miss the finite details of the original Pearl Harbor. How F.D.R. knew in advance, because the American Volunteer Group, was assisting Chiang Kai-shek, prior to Pearl Harbor. The Purple Code was cracked and R.A.D.A.R. was in play.
So, F.D.R., martyred those men and women in Pearl Harbor, just like Bush (Cheney more likely) did on 9/11 to those innocent men and women in the World Trade Center.
It's a funny thing, martyrdom, is usually something the person dieing chooses.
Not those people who sell them out through murderous intent to make a name for themselves.
I am however asking exactly what is the point of being a conspiracy theorist and what your political ideology will do to achieve your goals of the "win" with the elites, because as far as I am concerned, this is not a game, and it is not a win or lose situation, but a situation where we have to come together or we literally are doing absolutely nothing but spinning our wheels.
Originally posted by pjslug
1) The reason conspiracy theorists will never "win" is because 99% of them are nuts, plain and simple. They belong in a loony bin. They spend most of their waking hours trying to convince others that a select few are trying to take over the world, or that the world is coming to an end not only in their lifetime, but within the next few years. Of course this has been going on forever and the world still hasn't come to an end. Even if aliens did exist they are not coming to save you, because frankly you are not that important, nor worth saving.
Originally posted by pjslug
2) They come up with tens of thousands of non-linear theories and make up evidence to suit their beliefs. Even when all evidence points to the contrary and you show them the flaw in their theory, they will try to convince you that they are correct by coming up with another nutty idea in an attempt to back up their theory.
Originally posted by pjslug
3) They use the term "The Powers That Be" to refer to so-called masters of the universe, which of course is crazy. These people can never be named because they don't exist. Even the people at the top of the food chain that can be named are not all interconnected in some secret web of organized deceipt.
Originally posted by Faiol
1 - conspiracy theories are just theories, if we had proofs it wouldnt be a theory
Originally posted by Faiol
2 - its impossible to change a system by yourself
Originally posted by Faiol
3 - most people in the world are clueless
Originally posted by Faiol
4 - most people in the world dont have access to the internet
Originally posted by Faiol
5 - most people in the world dont know how to use the internet
Originally posted by Faiol
6 - most people in the world live in a box (mind)
Originally posted by Faiol
7 - most people in the world take instructions from a book (religion)
Originally posted by Faiol
8 - most people in the world never used their brain to discuss
Originally posted by Faiol
9 - a lot of people are born with some genes that make you a psychopath
Originally posted by Faiol
10 - most psychopaths look for decision making positions (CEOs, gov ...)
Originally posted by Faiol
11 - people are just %$2, just look at journalists selling their soul, most horrible class
Originally posted by Faiol
12 - DNA, recombination ...
Originally posted by Faiol
The reality is that most theories are just theories, its hard to find real evidence, and for the rest, the real things happening around us, most people dont have the capacity to understand these things and you need them if you want to change the system
Originally posted by Faiol
www.youtube.com...
Just to add, we live in a world run by psychopaths, thats the only explanation to why nobody gives a $%# about the planet, about other people, their own future ... they just care about control, since they dont feel anything
Originally posted by Faiol
www.youtube.com...
People here want to believe that there are secret organizations controlling our world, or aliens doing it, the truth is that DNA recombination makes some bad people, and there is nothing we can do to stop it, well, we could do something if the people understood, but most people cant think, so its impossible right now
Our only hope is the development of the internet ...
How do you rule over the masses when they believe they are all God? How do you divide and conquer when all beings believe they are one? How do you have a wealthy elite and starving poverty when each person sees another as an other-self, an other expression of the same fundamental infinite divine?
Originally posted by havok
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
Good gracious that's alot of information to sort through!
Good job though, with all the well presented subjects.
Originally posted by havok
Just to sum up everything for you...
Here's my idea:
Kill Cable. Kill the television.
Get to a news station legally and broadcast on a nationwide network about everything related to what's going on behind the curtain. Seem the only way people will listen is if it comes from the mouth of the beast (television).
This is a possible scenario. It can happen.
Originally posted by havok
BUT:
So many people are still glued to the television that they think normalcy consists of what new talent Amerika has, or what new Idol to worship. Purely pathetic and ignorant. Then there is sports.
Don't get me started on music and entertainment.
Just all distractions from what's really taking place.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Bread and Circuses
"Bread and circuses" (or bread and games) (from Latin: panem et circenses) is a metaphor for handouts and petty amusements that politicians use to gain popular support, instead of gaining it through sound public policy.
The phrase is invoked not only to criticize politicians, but also to criticize their populations for giving up their civic duty.
In modern usage, the phrase has become an adjective to deride a populace that no longer values civic virtues and the public life.
To many across the political spectrum, left and right, it connotes the triviality and frivolity that defined the Roman Empire prior to its decline and that may contribute to the decline of modern society.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Rex-84
Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, is a plan by the United States federal government to test their ability to detain large numbers of American citizens in case of civil unrest or national emergency.
Originally posted by havok
So. We could 'win' if the people collectively gathered in mass numbers (millions) and took over what has been robbed from them.
Their minds.
Originally posted by havok
Let's face it though. People don't want to fight.
Complacency rules. Obesity is killing our mindset.
We need numbers and a month long nationwide strike.
But then we get into FEAR and why people won't do anything.
They are scared.
Scared to lose everything they've worked so hard for.
Great job!
Amazon Review :
“The Science of Fear elegantly weaves academic research and everyday experience, exposing the secrets of emotion and reason, and the essential roles they play on our lives. An excellent book.”
--Dan Ariely, author of New York Times bestseller Predictably Irrational
“Where writers such as Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Francis Wheen have been content largely to enumerate the errors of less rational men and women, Dan Gardner has collated part of what we need to diagnose the problem. If skeptics spent less time moaning about the propensity of their fellows to believe what they want to believe and more time asking why they do so, there might not be such a crisis of reason in the West today.”
--The Independent
“Terrific. Exceptionally good… Has the clarity of Malcolm Gladwell.”
--Evening Standard
“Excellent…. analyses everything from the media’s predilection for irrational scare stories to the cynical use of fear by politicians pushing a particular agenda…. Gardner never falls into the trap of becoming frustrated and embittered by the waste and needless worry that he is documenting. A personal anecdote about an unwise foray into a Nigerian slum in search of a stolen wallet disposes of the idea that the author is immune to the foibles he describes. What could easily have been a catalogue of misgovernance and stupidity instead becomes a cheery corrective to modern paranoia.”
--The Economist
“Those of us who spend our careers in research hope that someone like Daniel Gardner will come along and bring our findings to the world in an engaging and scientifically accurate way. Thank you, Dan! Some books can change the world. This one might.”
--Paul Slovic, Professor of Psychology, University of Oregon, past President of The Society for Risk Analysis
“Fear needs a science and Daniel Gardner offers a fast-paced tour of what the most interesting researchers have revealed. The number of things that you don't need to be afraid of is encouraging, but finding out why we still do fear them anyway is fascinating. Essential reading for anyone interested in the social mistakes we make everyday--and how to fix them.”
--Tyler Cowen, author of Discover Your Inner Economist
“An invaluable resource for anyone who aspires to think clearly.”
--The Guardian “Elegantly summarises the results of psychological research … Gardner is forensic in his dissection of bogus claims in advertising and politics, just as he is lucid about the science explaining why they work.”
--The Observer
“A fascinating insight into the peculiar and devastating nature of human fear, while training the reader to be ever wary of misleading media announcements.”
--The Telegraph
War Pigs Lyrics:
Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of death's construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh lord yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait 'til their judgement day comes
Yeah!
Now in darkness world stops turning
Ashes where the bodies burning
No more war pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees the war pig's crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing spreads his wings
Oh lord yeah!