It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
The Reason Conspiracy Theorists Can Never "Win" Against the Elite
page: 1share:
Considering I have been "working" as a fellow conspiracy theorist for 31 years now, since I was age 6, raised by a stepfather who was a Vietnam era
Marine, and a mother who divorced my father because of alcoholism, this may be the hardest thread I have ever written in my past five years on ATS, a
wonderful website.
That's right, you heard me correct, since I was 6 years old, and I am saying "conspiracy theorists" will never "win", at least not in the traditional sense of the word.
I put this thread in the Political Ideology forum are for a reason because of our constant and conflicting political ideologies, as well as difference of perspectives.
First before I go on I must define both what a "win" and a "loss" is by the basic definitions.
...and...
A pretty simple explanation if you ask me and now we go onto the conflict at the heart of the matter, and why a "win" will never happen, due to political ideology.
After reading the definition above you should know that the reason conspiracy theorists cannot "win" is quite simple, in fact it is not through any necessary actions of the elite.
When I reference the elite, I think of the power families which seem to have such an overabundance of funding, have the connection, have the means to do pretty much any damn thing they want to, up to and including putting a President in office.
Whether your belief is in the election process and the electoral college, or the Secret Societies, or the alleged and as yet unproven Shadow Government, the main reason we as conspiracy theorists cannot win, is not in the unlimited funding, unlimited corruption, and or unlimited secrets they seem to have.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7e127671861c.gif[/atsimg]
It is quite simple in fact, it is three words, and they always work, no matter what.
Divide and Conquer.
It is a simple means of a lever, a fulcrum, and the exploitation of power.
The differences of belief systems, of how society works in each country, of the idealistic belief of how it should work, and the realistic means of how it really works all comes into play.
But in the end it comes down over all to our own beliefs and how they are used against us.
Divide and Conquer : Political Ideology of the Power Elite, Selling The Peace, War Is The Motive
Between the constant monitoring of the Internet, the telecommunications industry, and or people too stupid to know better, we quite simply cannot "win".
At least not in the traditional sense of a win like on a score board in a game.
Why?
Because people are simply too afraid, too ignorant, or too lazy to do the right thing.
No, I am not pointing any fingers, nor am I making a point of any one particular person.
It is the entirety of the self-proclaimed "conspiracy theorist" community itself.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6069b530fc32.jpg[/atsimg]
I am not referring to ATS, Info Wars, AmKon, or whatever other conspiracy community you may or may not belong to, but the entirety of all of them combined.
There is zero unity between us but there is 100% unity between the elite.
There is zero belief of any one thing between all of us and 100% belief between the elite.
There is zero agreeing political ideology between us and 100% agreeing political ideology between the elite.
We as the conspiracy theorist community, whether it is ATS, Info Wars, or AmKon have such differing opinions, perspectives, beliefs, and education levels.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c24fda5d2c2b.jpeg[/atsimg]
But we outnumber the elite 100 to 1 as far as live bodies are concerned.
However, we cannot seem to agree upon one set thing, or one set ideal.
Or even one particular version of a conspiracy and or theory of one or the "official story".
It is not however that we cannot physically pick up guns and storm Washington D.C., or the headquarters of the United Nations, or whatever particular countries headquarters, because we can, but it is not if we can, but rather should we.
Please, understand I am not encouraging picking up weapons, as a matter of fact I am discouraging that, not because I do not believe in weapons, I do, but it is the wrong course of action, because quite simply the laws have changed.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8e270929984a.jpg[/atsimg]
And we have not.
While I respect, believe in, and encourage a wide demographic of people, within the conspiracy theory community, it is however too wide at times, too differing as far as personal beliefs, perspectives, experience, education, divisive nature.
You name it.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/798f0b60e361.jpg[/atsimg]
Considering we almost always, at one time or another speak of violence, speak of change, or speak of knowing what is going on behind the scenes, over all it is a lack of action, and a lack of the correct action at that, which holds us back.
And this is in fact what keeps us in the "loss" column and the elites in the "win" column.
When it comes to our desire to change the world just what are we willing to do to change it?
I am not asking anyone to follow me, as a matter of fact I discourage it, I hate people trying to do what I am doing, I see it something I am rather loathe to see.
I am however asking you to consider your political ideology, your goals, and your desires.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/60d274b1637a.jpg[/atsimg]
Are they aligned within the conspiracy theory community in some semblance of agreement.
Do we all believe Government is to blame or is it in fact our own fault?
When we speak of violence it points towards stepping out of the bounds of society.
When we speak of writing our Congressman or elected official we do not all always act.
When we speak of the next False-Flag Operation we never come to one conclusion.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/34a6fbd1cac6.jpg[/atsimg]
If we as a society itself, the conspiracy theory community is itself a society, albeit one in which the weirdest, craziest, and sometimes off-the-wall theories are shared, cannot come to one particular shared perspective, belief, and heading, we will in fact fail, because we fail to act, and by failing to act not by a lack of action, but by the incorrect action gets us label led as the fringe element.
The fringe element is the loose element on the outside of the edges of society.
If we all believe differently about the conspiracies we study and delve into we lose.
Between the various conspiracy theories not one ultimate conclusion can unite us.
Between all of us Government is either the "bad guy" or the "benevolent entity".
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6baf3433d791.gif[/atsimg]
Lincoln verses Booth in the Ford Theatre.
The Alamo and the stand against Santa Anna.
The Reichstag Fire and the rise of the Nazis.
Pearl Harbor and F.D.R.'s role in entering WWII.
J.F.K. verses Oswald.
Vietnam and the War on Drugs.
BP PLC and the Gulf of Mexico.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b50bab8666a9.jpg[/atsimg]
We have heard them all in some variation of course.
But in the end, researching, reading, cross-referencing, and understanding them, how in fact do we honeslty ever "win" against the elites and take them down?
If we do not have more money, more unity, or more correct political moves, we cannot.
What is the "win" ATS and what one political ideology will lead us to it?
Or is it that all of them will eventually make us watered down to lose?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/20498d7b78a2.jpg[/atsimg]
Have I stopped being a conspiracy theorist and given up?
Hell no.
Do I sound like I have thrown in the towel?
Because I have not.
I am however asking exactly what is the point of being a conspiracy theorist and what your political ideology will do to achieve your goals of the "win" with the elites, because as far as I am concerned, this is not a game, and it is not a win or lose situation, but a situation where we have to come together or we literally are doing absolutely nothing but spinning our wheels.
All talk and no walk makes a lot of hot air coming out of our mouths.
And that is the job of politicians not conspiracy theorists.
I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican.
I am neither a Conservative nor a Liberal.
I am a free-thinking human being who pick no sides.
Except that of the conspiracy theorists.
And folks by a lack of proper action we only sit still.
The world meanwhile revolves around the Sun yet one more time.
We have to come to some sort of unity or else we will always be divided.
This thread was inspired by the thread below as a welcome to a new member.
Do not treat this as a game
[edit on 24-6-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]
That's right, you heard me correct, since I was 6 years old, and I am saying "conspiracy theorists" will never "win", at least not in the traditional sense of the word.
I put this thread in the Political Ideology forum are for a reason because of our constant and conflicting political ideologies, as well as difference of perspectives.
First before I go on I must define both what a "win" and a "loss" is by the basic definitions.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Win
A win is a victory.
...and...
Quote from Wikipedia : Loss
An event in which the team or individual in question did not win.
A pretty simple explanation if you ask me and now we go onto the conflict at the heart of the matter, and why a "win" will never happen, due to political ideology.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Ideology : Political Ideology
Many political parties base their political action and program on an ideology.
In social studies, a Political Ideology is a certain ethical set of ideals, principles, doctrines, myths or symbols of a social movement, institution, class, or large group that explains how society should work, and offers some political and cultural blueprint for a certain social order.
A political ideology largely concerns itself with how to allocate power and to what ends it should be used.
Some parties follow a certain ideology very closely, while others may take broad inspiration from a group of related ideologies without specifically embracing any one of them.
Political ideologies have two dimensions:
1.Goals: how society should work (or be arranged).
2.Methods: the most appropriate ways to achieve the ideal arrangement.
An ideology is a collection of ideas.
Typically, each ideology contains certain ideas on what it considers to be the best form of government (e.g. democracy, theocracy, etc.), and the best economic system (e.g. capitalism, socialism, etc.).
Sometimes the same word is used to identify both an ideology and one of its main ideas.
For instance, "socialism" may refer to an economic system, or it may refer to an ideology which supports that economic system.
Ideologies also identify themselves by their position on the political spectrum (such as the left, the center or the right), though this is very often controversial.
Finally, ideologies can be distinguished from political strategies (e.g. populism) and from single issues that a party may be built around (e.g. opposition to European integration or the legalization of marijuana).
Philosopher Michael Oakeshott provides a good definition of ideology as "the formalized abridgment of the supposed sub-stratum of the rational truth contained in the tradition."
Studies of the concept of ideology itself (rather than specific ideologies) have been carried out under the name of systematic ideology.
Political ideologies are concerned with many different aspects of a society, some of which are: the economy, education, health care, labor law, criminal law, the justice system, the provision of social security and social welfare, trade, the environment, minors, immigration, race, use of the military, patriotism and established religion.
There are many proposed methods for the classification of political ideologies. See the political spectrum article for a more in-depth discussion of these different methods (each of whom generates a specific political spectrum).
After reading the definition above you should know that the reason conspiracy theorists cannot "win" is quite simple, in fact it is not through any necessary actions of the elite.
When I reference the elite, I think of the power families which seem to have such an overabundance of funding, have the connection, have the means to do pretty much any damn thing they want to, up to and including putting a President in office.
Whether your belief is in the election process and the electoral college, or the Secret Societies, or the alleged and as yet unproven Shadow Government, the main reason we as conspiracy theorists cannot win, is not in the unlimited funding, unlimited corruption, and or unlimited secrets they seem to have.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7e127671861c.gif[/atsimg]
It is quite simple in fact, it is three words, and they always work, no matter what.
Divide and Conquer.
It is a simple means of a lever, a fulcrum, and the exploitation of power.
The differences of belief systems, of how society works in each country, of the idealistic belief of how it should work, and the realistic means of how it really works all comes into play.
But in the end it comes down over all to our own beliefs and how they are used against us.
Divide and Conquer : Political Ideology of the Power Elite, Selling The Peace, War Is The Motive
Between the constant monitoring of the Internet, the telecommunications industry, and or people too stupid to know better, we quite simply cannot "win".
At least not in the traditional sense of a win like on a score board in a game.
Why?
Because people are simply too afraid, too ignorant, or too lazy to do the right thing.
No, I am not pointing any fingers, nor am I making a point of any one particular person.
It is the entirety of the self-proclaimed "conspiracy theorist" community itself.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6069b530fc32.jpg[/atsimg]
I am not referring to ATS, Info Wars, AmKon, or whatever other conspiracy community you may or may not belong to, but the entirety of all of them combined.
There is zero unity between us but there is 100% unity between the elite.
There is zero belief of any one thing between all of us and 100% belief between the elite.
There is zero agreeing political ideology between us and 100% agreeing political ideology between the elite.
We as the conspiracy theorist community, whether it is ATS, Info Wars, or AmKon have such differing opinions, perspectives, beliefs, and education levels.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c24fda5d2c2b.jpeg[/atsimg]
But we outnumber the elite 100 to 1 as far as live bodies are concerned.
However, we cannot seem to agree upon one set thing, or one set ideal.
Or even one particular version of a conspiracy and or theory of one or the "official story".
It is not however that we cannot physically pick up guns and storm Washington D.C., or the headquarters of the United Nations, or whatever particular countries headquarters, because we can, but it is not if we can, but rather should we.
Please, understand I am not encouraging picking up weapons, as a matter of fact I am discouraging that, not because I do not believe in weapons, I do, but it is the wrong course of action, because quite simply the laws have changed.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8e270929984a.jpg[/atsimg]
And we have not.
While I respect, believe in, and encourage a wide demographic of people, within the conspiracy theory community, it is however too wide at times, too differing as far as personal beliefs, perspectives, experience, education, divisive nature.
You name it.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/798f0b60e361.jpg[/atsimg]
Considering we almost always, at one time or another speak of violence, speak of change, or speak of knowing what is going on behind the scenes, over all it is a lack of action, and a lack of the correct action at that, which holds us back.
And this is in fact what keeps us in the "loss" column and the elites in the "win" column.
When it comes to our desire to change the world just what are we willing to do to change it?
I am not asking anyone to follow me, as a matter of fact I discourage it, I hate people trying to do what I am doing, I see it something I am rather loathe to see.
I am however asking you to consider your political ideology, your goals, and your desires.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/60d274b1637a.jpg[/atsimg]
Are they aligned within the conspiracy theory community in some semblance of agreement.
Do we all believe Government is to blame or is it in fact our own fault?
When we speak of violence it points towards stepping out of the bounds of society.
When we speak of writing our Congressman or elected official we do not all always act.
When we speak of the next False-Flag Operation we never come to one conclusion.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/34a6fbd1cac6.jpg[/atsimg]
If we as a society itself, the conspiracy theory community is itself a society, albeit one in which the weirdest, craziest, and sometimes off-the-wall theories are shared, cannot come to one particular shared perspective, belief, and heading, we will in fact fail, because we fail to act, and by failing to act not by a lack of action, but by the incorrect action gets us label led as the fringe element.
The fringe element is the loose element on the outside of the edges of society.
If we all believe differently about the conspiracies we study and delve into we lose.
Between the various conspiracy theories not one ultimate conclusion can unite us.
Between all of us Government is either the "bad guy" or the "benevolent entity".
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6baf3433d791.gif[/atsimg]
Lincoln verses Booth in the Ford Theatre.
The Alamo and the stand against Santa Anna.
The Reichstag Fire and the rise of the Nazis.
Pearl Harbor and F.D.R.'s role in entering WWII.
J.F.K. verses Oswald.
Vietnam and the War on Drugs.
BP PLC and the Gulf of Mexico.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b50bab8666a9.jpg[/atsimg]
We have heard them all in some variation of course.
But in the end, researching, reading, cross-referencing, and understanding them, how in fact do we honeslty ever "win" against the elites and take them down?
If we do not have more money, more unity, or more correct political moves, we cannot.
What is the "win" ATS and what one political ideology will lead us to it?
Or is it that all of them will eventually make us watered down to lose?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/20498d7b78a2.jpg[/atsimg]
Have I stopped being a conspiracy theorist and given up?
Hell no.
Do I sound like I have thrown in the towel?
Because I have not.
I am however asking exactly what is the point of being a conspiracy theorist and what your political ideology will do to achieve your goals of the "win" with the elites, because as far as I am concerned, this is not a game, and it is not a win or lose situation, but a situation where we have to come together or we literally are doing absolutely nothing but spinning our wheels.
All talk and no walk makes a lot of hot air coming out of our mouths.
And that is the job of politicians not conspiracy theorists.
I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican.
I am neither a Conservative nor a Liberal.
I am a free-thinking human being who pick no sides.
Except that of the conspiracy theorists.
And folks by a lack of proper action we only sit still.
The world meanwhile revolves around the Sun yet one more time.
We have to come to some sort of unity or else we will always be divided.
This thread was inspired by the thread below as a welcome to a new member.
Do not treat this as a game
[edit on 24-6-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]
Well done Spartan!
I have to agree with your position here, as it definitely has substance and stance.
I wish the Conspiracy could be one against the elite, but as you say, they tend to have a plan and stick together, instead of fighting amongst the ranks.
Interesting that the fighting among each other is exactly what the elite try to push as a(n) agenda already, for nothing is more powerful than people who all get along, despite diversity.
All it takes is two people to talk and get along and you have the mix for a conspiracy in the works.
Good thread.
I have to agree with your position here, as it definitely has substance and stance.
I wish the Conspiracy could be one against the elite, but as you say, they tend to have a plan and stick together, instead of fighting amongst the ranks.
Interesting that the fighting among each other is exactly what the elite try to push as a(n) agenda already, for nothing is more powerful than people who all get along, despite diversity.
All it takes is two people to talk and get along and you have the mix for a conspiracy in the works.
Good thread.
Sadly I have to agree,
If I see how many families, organizations, foundations and corporations work together, I feel lost in a world where people are still debating 9/11 while new conspiracies happen wide open under our noses.
I think that topic divided people even more than the Kennedy assassination.
So I don't think I will ever see any change in my lifetime, only the change to a more totalitarian system.
As long as the elite has the banks/oil/media and the justice dept/politicians/army/education in their pockets things will never change.
If I see how many families, organizations, foundations and corporations work together, I feel lost in a world where people are still debating 9/11 while new conspiracies happen wide open under our noses.
I think that topic divided people even more than the Kennedy assassination.
So I don't think I will ever see any change in my lifetime, only the change to a more totalitarian system.
As long as the elite has the banks/oil/media and the justice dept/politicians/army/education in their pockets things will never change.
reply to post by theability
But isn't making a conspiracy exactly what we accuse them of doing?
I am not saying I do not necessarily agree but if we become that which we fight?
What if instead of conspiring together we actually did the right thing?
If all of the conspiracy theorists of the world entered politics simultaneously?
Would it in fact become true what Nietzsche says?
If we are "fighting" via "conspiracy theorizing" are we not becoming apathetic?
Thereby limiting ourselves and defeating ourselves through inaction?
Take the plight of Julian Assange as an example.
The man is a hacker, or associated with hackers, but has he not become the monster which he seeks to fight, by finding and or having classified documents he has broken the very laws which he wants stopped.
Secrecy begats secrecy, crime begats crime, his actions will only lead to stricter laws, instead of defeating those laws already in place because he commited a crime.
Whether he respected the people who put the laws and or politicians in place, his actions only hurt the conspiracy community, just as Alex Jones stirs people into semi-criminal behaviors with his words, and points to those who did the physcial violence, thereby, sidestepping culpability.
reply to post by Grey Magic
Do not take this as a negative.
See it as a means to change our efforts.
Are we spinning our wheels or ready for action?
Imagine if we put our combined political knowledge into action.
Not together but apart and without a plan but with a goal.
But isn't making a conspiracy exactly what we accuse them of doing?
I am not saying I do not necessarily agree but if we become that which we fight?
What if instead of conspiring together we actually did the right thing?
If all of the conspiracy theorists of the world entered politics simultaneously?
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146
Would it in fact become true what Nietzsche says?
If we are "fighting" via "conspiracy theorizing" are we not becoming apathetic?
Thereby limiting ourselves and defeating ourselves through inaction?
Take the plight of Julian Assange as an example.
The man is a hacker, or associated with hackers, but has he not become the monster which he seeks to fight, by finding and or having classified documents he has broken the very laws which he wants stopped.
Secrecy begats secrecy, crime begats crime, his actions will only lead to stricter laws, instead of defeating those laws already in place because he commited a crime.
Whether he respected the people who put the laws and or politicians in place, his actions only hurt the conspiracy community, just as Alex Jones stirs people into semi-criminal behaviors with his words, and points to those who did the physcial violence, thereby, sidestepping culpability.
reply to post by Grey Magic
Do not take this as a negative.
See it as a means to change our efforts.
Are we spinning our wheels or ready for action?
Imagine if we put our combined political knowledge into action.
Not together but apart and without a plan but with a goal.
One of the most epic posts I have ever read. To much truth and reality oozing from this one! I have to agree without a doubt about what the OP has put
fourth here before us.
We have our work cut out for us.
We have our work cut out for us.
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
Well thought outand put together, MODS give this man an applause.
I do agree there is no since of unity among us common folks we all get caught up in the left/right paridgm... Maybe we could use a leader to unite us.... Whatcha say Slayer?
Well thought outand put together, MODS give this man an applause.
I do agree there is no since of unity among us common folks we all get caught up in the left/right paridgm... Maybe we could use a leader to unite us.... Whatcha say Slayer?
reply to post by IbcBen
Thank you.
It is not so much we have work cut out for us.
It is less work and more symmetry.
Work smarter not harder.
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
The problem with any one person "leading" us is that person becomes a target.
Besides, recruiting is against the terms and conditions of ATS, so that's out.
Take the examples of Martin Luther King Jr. and Hutaree.
An alleged racist and bigot took him down through racial ignorance.
[iMartin Luther King "I have a dream"
...and...
Hutaree Viewed Warily by Other Mich. Militia
And allegedly 9 people were arrested who picked up arms towards violence.
Two very different directions and two very different activities which stopped them.
Personally, I never believe James Earl Ray acted alone, but as a cut-out for Hoover.
And as for Hutaree I see one or two of those 9 arrested as being Agent Provocateurs.
Sent in to agitate the real "problem children" and lead then into being arrested.
But the division was very easily seen and so was the lack of proper action.
King could have used different tactics but it would have made him less of a target.
And Hutaree could have chosen to put people into politics instead of pick up guns.
Am I saying they were conspiracy theorists?
Not necessarily.
I am simply using their actions as examples of what lead to their failure.
A martyr may in fact be a galvanizing factor but it is still a dead person.
And a Pyrrhic Victory without leadership to carry on as powerful as before.
[edit on 24-6-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]
Thank you.
It is not so much we have work cut out for us.
It is less work and more symmetry.
Work smarter not harder.
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
The problem with any one person "leading" us is that person becomes a target.
Besides, recruiting is against the terms and conditions of ATS, so that's out.
Take the examples of Martin Luther King Jr. and Hutaree.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Martin Luther King Jr
Martin Luther King, Jr. (January 15, 1929 – April 4, 1968) was an American clergyman, activist, and prominent leader in the African American civil rights movement.
His main legacy was to secure progress on civil rights in the United States, and he has become a human rights icon: King is recognized as a martyr by two Christian churches.
A Baptist minister, King became a civil rights activist early in his career.
He led the 1955 Montgomery Bus Boycott and helped found the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in 1957, serving as its first president.
King's efforts led to the 1963 March on Washington, where King delivered his "I Have a Dream" speech.
There, he raised public consciousness of the civil rights movement and established himself as one of the greatest orators in U.S. history.
In 1964, King became the youngest person to receive the Nobel Peace Prize for his work to end racial segregation and racial discrimination through civil disobedience and other non-violent means.
By the time of his death in 1968, he had refocused his efforts on ending poverty and the Vietnam War, both from a religious perspective.
King was assassinated on April 4, 1968, in Memphis, Tennessee.
He was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1977 and Congressional Gold Medal in 2004; Martin Luther King, Jr. Day was established as a U.S. national holiday in 1986.
An alleged racist and bigot took him down through racial ignorance.
[iMartin Luther King "I have a dream"
...and...
Quote from : Wikipedia : Hutaree
Hutaree (pronounced /huːˈtɑri:/ ( listen)) is a militia movement group adhering to the Christian Patriot movement, based in Adrian, Michigan, in the United States.
The group was formed in early 2008.
The name "Hutaree" appears to be a neologism, that according to the group's web site means "Christian warriors".
The group was allegedly preparing for what they believed would be an apocalyptic battle with the forces of the Antichrist, who they believed would be supported and defended by local, state and federal police departments.
On their website, all police and military members who would support the current U.S. system of local, state or federal government were described as members of the "brotherhood", and were considered by the Hutaree to be "enemies".
From March 28 to March 30, 2010, nine people thought to be Hutaree members were arrested in police raids in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana (in Hammond), for their alleged involvement in a plot to kill various police officers and possibly civilians using illegal explosives and/or firearms.
Hutaree Viewed Warily by Other Mich. Militia
And allegedly 9 people were arrested who picked up arms towards violence.
Two very different directions and two very different activities which stopped them.
Personally, I never believe James Earl Ray acted alone, but as a cut-out for Hoover.
And as for Hutaree I see one or two of those 9 arrested as being Agent Provocateurs.
Sent in to agitate the real "problem children" and lead then into being arrested.
But the division was very easily seen and so was the lack of proper action.
King could have used different tactics but it would have made him less of a target.
And Hutaree could have chosen to put people into politics instead of pick up guns.
Am I saying they were conspiracy theorists?
Not necessarily.
I am simply using their actions as examples of what lead to their failure.
A martyr may in fact be a galvanizing factor but it is still a dead person.
And a Pyrrhic Victory without leadership to carry on as powerful as before.
[edit on 24-6-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]
Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by theability
Take the plight of Julian Assange as an example.
The man is a hacker, or associated with hackers, but has he not become the monster which he seeks to fight, by finding and or having classified documents he has broken the very laws which he wants stopped.
Secrecy begats secrecy, crime begats crime, his actions will only lead to stricter laws, instead of defeating those laws already in place because he commited a crime.
Hell no - you are way off with this. The government has no right to secrecy AT ALL! There should be NO SECRETS apart from deployment and technical data of defensive capabilities - everything else MUST be known.
Those laws should be destroyed - and with continued efforts by these kind of guys, people will begin demanding more transparency - and more people will reveal information.
This kind of information will make people face the truth - they must take action - or confess they are slaves.
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
It is exactly what we say they do, all they time, right on the money.
This is a good statement here, do the right thing, would mean that we need to stop the 'listening' to all the noise that generates the populous towards needless and unproductive tendencies like not working together as well as the typical statements of individuals, "What can I do about it?"
The greatest fear the government has is the population that figures out that the government isn't needed anymore.
Which unknown to most is a decision. The people are the power on earth and always has been.
Like for instance, how would the Government lock up 150 million people that decide to turn against them?
I'd take a guess that they couldn't even do it, they just don't have the ability to do such a undertaking.
But isn't making a conspiracy exactly what we accuse them of doing?
It is exactly what we say they do, all they time, right on the money.
I am not saying I do not necessarily agree but if we become that which we fight? What if instead of conspiring together we actually did the right thing?
This is a good statement here, do the right thing, would mean that we need to stop the 'listening' to all the noise that generates the populous towards needless and unproductive tendencies like not working together as well as the typical statements of individuals, "What can I do about it?"
The greatest fear the government has is the population that figures out that the government isn't needed anymore.
Which unknown to most is a decision. The people are the power on earth and always has been.
Like for instance, how would the Government lock up 150 million people that decide to turn against them?
I'd take a guess that they couldn't even do it, they just don't have the ability to do such a undertaking.
Originally posted by Amagnon
Hell no - you are way off with this. The government has no right to secrecy AT ALL! There should be NO SECRETS apart from deployment and technical data of defensive capabilities - everything else MUST be known.
Those laws should be destroyed - and with continued efforts by these kind of guys, people will begin demanding more transparency - and more people will reveal information.
This kind of information will make people face the truth - they must take action - or confess they are slaves.
But does commission of a crime outweigh a secret?
I understand Government and happen to agree it should not be allowed secrets.
However, the intent of uncovering those secrets must never topple reason, because commmission of a crime only makes Assange a criminal fighting criminals.
The intent of uncovering the crime, must never be excused by a criminal action, Government sets the laws, and we as a society as a whole, those some of us call "sheeple", and those of us they label as "conspiracy theorists", cannot step into committing a crime, in order to expose those secrets, or we are no better than those who we accuse.
Do I agree with our being in Iraq or Afghanistan?
Hell no.
Would I commit a crime to uncover secret communications of Government?
No.
But that's because I buy books, research, cross-reference, and understand Government.
I do not value anything Julian Assange has to offer it is worthless.
Because he stepped over the clear-cut line from citizen to criminal.
Originally posted by theability
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
It is exactly what we say they do, all they time, right on the money.
My point exactly.
If we conspire we are in fact crossing into duplicity and hypocrisy.
Make them chase their tails instead and do nothing they expect.
Originally posted by theability
This is a good statement here, do the right thing, would mean that we need to stop the 'listening' to all the noise that generates the populous towards needless and unproductive tendencies like not working together as well as the typical statements of individuals, "What can I do about it?"
The greatest fear the government has is the population that figures out that the government isn't needed anymore.
Which unknown to most is a decision. The people are the power on earth and always has been.
Like for instance, how would the Government lock up 150 million people that decide to turn against them?
I'd take a guess that they couldn't even do it, they just don't have the ability to do such a undertaking.
I can only speak for myself but I for one do not "need" Government.
And I have never "needed" Government.
I can see it has a function in life and society.
However, I agree with some of it's function, and disagree with others.
I see we as society are to blame for Government being out of control.
Because of our inactions.
[edit on 24-6-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
Yes it would be nice for them to be tied up running circles wouldn't that be a show!
As for my 4 decade on this planet, I can say that government serves its own purpose to be in control and to push there views upon the masses, and I have to admit, the government does nothing for me either.
Well said, I have to say that many issues with the government are the new ways the function is self-debilitating as citizens. Not all of us are threats as the seem to propose these days.
Again great statement, the issue is our distractions and the plague of humanity saying again, "Well what can I do about it?"
When I was in the military we had this plastic baby we had passed around the platoon, you got to carry the thing for being a "titty-baby" and being one of those that constantly whined about oohh-woo-us-me, in other words BOO HOO!
What does this have to do these days: WE have become babies, coddled and pacified to death and act like we are helpless and pathetic, exactly what the big fed whats us to be, absolutely worthless!
If we conspire we are in fact crossing into duplicity and hypocrisy.
Make them chase their tails instead and do nothing they expect.
Yes it would be nice for them to be tied up running circles wouldn't that be a show!
I can only speak for myself but I for one do not "need" Government.
And I have never "needed" Government.
I can see it has a function in life and society.
As for my 4 decade on this planet, I can say that government serves its own purpose to be in control and to push there views upon the masses, and I have to admit, the government does nothing for me either.
However, I agree with some of it's function, and disagree with others.
Well said, I have to say that many issues with the government are the new ways the function is self-debilitating as citizens. Not all of us are threats as the seem to propose these days.
I see we as society are to blame for Government being out of control. Because of our inactions.
Again great statement, the issue is our distractions and the plague of humanity saying again, "Well what can I do about it?"
When I was in the military we had this plastic baby we had passed around the platoon, you got to carry the thing for being a "titty-baby" and being one of those that constantly whined about oohh-woo-us-me, in other words BOO HOO!
What does this have to do these days: WE have become babies, coddled and pacified to death and act like we are helpless and pathetic, exactly what the big fed whats us to be, absolutely worthless!
SpartanKingLeonidas,
I find what you have said rather interesting to say the least. I've been feeling that the divide and conquer tactic has been overwhelming some of our efforts to expose and confront the true problems that are plaguing our world. I have come to some of my own conclusions about how and why we have all ended up in this very polarized mess.
I am going to paraphrase from a thread I created some time ago, and have yet to have many responses (this may sound like it is off-topic, but it will help me better explain my feelings on the issue as I go on, so please bare with me).
The basis of any biological organism is to do one thing: survive. What does survival mean at its very basic level? Well, depending on the organism, it may be as simple as finding an energy source to fuel biological processes in order to reproduce and continue the cycle all over again. As you go further up the food chain, the biological processes become ever more complex. As we can observe in nature, society develops as a means of self-ensured survival. There is safety in numbers. More members of a biological society means more "hands" to help "feed" the others. More numbers mean a guarantee of genetic material is being passed on. There is one difference between animals in nature and the "human animal," however. Human animals have developed a different trait: that of ideology. I'm using the term ideology as an all encompassing term. It includes, but is not limited to: religion, politics, economy, entertainment, etc. Many biological organisms from toads to apes have a purpose for many of their behaviors: certain behaviors support survival tactics, while others support the collection of food, while others still, promote hygiene to prevent disease. Humans do show many, if not all, of these traits, but my argument was that the trait of ideology isn't necessarily to promote survival, and I believe is quite unique in the natural world. Ideology seems to be the one genetic trait that has yet to show any sort of natural survival behavior. One could make the argument that the foundation of modern society was a way to assure that our species could continue and prosper. I won't argue that point. However, my question was where does a collective of "animals" go from organized society and hierarchy to ideology? Basic survival behavior is learned at some point in the "evolution" of a specific species.
An example: a young child decides that he/she is going to touch a hot stove for the first time, not knowing the consequences. After the child realizes that he/she has been hurt from the hot stove, they do not touch it again. This is a learned behavior, and one that promotes survival. In the wild, an animal that sustains an injury is subject to infection, and sometimes death. These animals do everything that they can to prevent these injuries from happening so that they survive long enough to pass on their genetic code and contribute to the gene pool.
Let's look at ideology now. I will start with religion, as it is the easiest to explain as an un-natural behavior. The concept of a higher being is something that cannot be observed or even shared (at least not yet), with any other species in the animal kingdom. Humans are uniquely different in that respect. I cannot see any sort of natural survival trait within the realm of religion. Religion causes polarization, religion causes death and destruction, and religion goes against our natural tendencies as biological organisms. Killing one another does not promote or even support the continuation of a species. It does not contribute to the greater whole, so, therefore, must be a taught behavior. For if one were not to have been taught anything about religion, my belief is that the person would end up learning through natural means, therefore ensuring their own personal survival. Now of course, I'm talking about the most extreme of cases, but bare with me, I'm going to continue with my original thought very soon.
My next topic is that of politics. Politics, governmental structure, etc. may look like it promotes survival, and may even been a more "evolved" form of the animal kingdom's hierarchy. An organized society is a safer society. An organized society has more hands in which to feed everybody, therefore ensuring mutual survival. Somewhere along the line, however, things shifted. There was a small variation on which our basic survival function veered far off its original intended course. Ideology formed. The thought that "my way of thinking is better than your way of thinking" began. This of course is a behavior only shown in the human animal. Even taking the example of a pride of lions that is overtaken by a new male leader, the intent is still that of basic biological survival. The new lion comes in to oust the old one and spread his genetic material to further diversify the gene pool. This is not a matter of "my way is better than yours" it is, at a very basic level, to ensure survival. If a gene pool gets stagnant, you start to develop genetic abnormalities, defects, etc., but I digress. When one nation does not agree with another nation, or even in the microcosm, when one person does not agree with another person on a particular thought, there is no promotion of survival. These arguments turn into, at worst, a peeing match between two polarized sides, and at best, maybe a consensus can be reached. However, at the most basic of levels, the fact still remains that politics in general does not promote our most basic of instincts: to survive. The only other question that still remains (in my mind) is who taught us to behave like this, and who taught us to be so polarized in our ways of thinking, as opposed to working together to promote our own mutual survival?
Now that I have gotten that out of the way, I can better explain my stance on your original topic of why conspiracy theorists will never win. We have been taught that we must stand true to our own ideals and beliefs no matter what others may say or do. We have been taught that being an individual means that we should not listen to others' points of view and that in fact, if we do, we are just another "sheep" in the herd. My whole point in all of my rambling is that we have been taught to fight against each other from the time humans first formed civilization. I believe this thought to be more important than any of the ideologies involved in this polarization of sides. Where the "elite" have power as a common goal, the conspiracy theorists obviously have very different goals between them. Different ideals are what is causing our downfall, and I believe it to be no fault of our own. Whether it was genetic, or "divine intervention" from a god, or aliens, or what have you, the polarization that we have seen in our own little microcosm is preventing us from seeing the ultimate goal of freeing ourselves from tyrannical rule, from living in peace, and continuing the human species as a whole. The path that we are on will only lead to an eventual extinction unless we learn to shrug off what has been programmed in us since the human race's early days.
I absolutely agree with you SpartanKingLeonidas, and I hope my post has made sense. Without a consensus, and without learning to shrug off what we have been taught and what is now encoded in our DNA from thousands of years of doing the same exact thing, we will always lose against the evil that we are trying to fight.
Peace be with you.
-truthseeker
I find what you have said rather interesting to say the least. I've been feeling that the divide and conquer tactic has been overwhelming some of our efforts to expose and confront the true problems that are plaguing our world. I have come to some of my own conclusions about how and why we have all ended up in this very polarized mess.
I am going to paraphrase from a thread I created some time ago, and have yet to have many responses (this may sound like it is off-topic, but it will help me better explain my feelings on the issue as I go on, so please bare with me).
The basis of any biological organism is to do one thing: survive. What does survival mean at its very basic level? Well, depending on the organism, it may be as simple as finding an energy source to fuel biological processes in order to reproduce and continue the cycle all over again. As you go further up the food chain, the biological processes become ever more complex. As we can observe in nature, society develops as a means of self-ensured survival. There is safety in numbers. More members of a biological society means more "hands" to help "feed" the others. More numbers mean a guarantee of genetic material is being passed on. There is one difference between animals in nature and the "human animal," however. Human animals have developed a different trait: that of ideology. I'm using the term ideology as an all encompassing term. It includes, but is not limited to: religion, politics, economy, entertainment, etc. Many biological organisms from toads to apes have a purpose for many of their behaviors: certain behaviors support survival tactics, while others support the collection of food, while others still, promote hygiene to prevent disease. Humans do show many, if not all, of these traits, but my argument was that the trait of ideology isn't necessarily to promote survival, and I believe is quite unique in the natural world. Ideology seems to be the one genetic trait that has yet to show any sort of natural survival behavior. One could make the argument that the foundation of modern society was a way to assure that our species could continue and prosper. I won't argue that point. However, my question was where does a collective of "animals" go from organized society and hierarchy to ideology? Basic survival behavior is learned at some point in the "evolution" of a specific species.
An example: a young child decides that he/she is going to touch a hot stove for the first time, not knowing the consequences. After the child realizes that he/she has been hurt from the hot stove, they do not touch it again. This is a learned behavior, and one that promotes survival. In the wild, an animal that sustains an injury is subject to infection, and sometimes death. These animals do everything that they can to prevent these injuries from happening so that they survive long enough to pass on their genetic code and contribute to the gene pool.
Let's look at ideology now. I will start with religion, as it is the easiest to explain as an un-natural behavior. The concept of a higher being is something that cannot be observed or even shared (at least not yet), with any other species in the animal kingdom. Humans are uniquely different in that respect. I cannot see any sort of natural survival trait within the realm of religion. Religion causes polarization, religion causes death and destruction, and religion goes against our natural tendencies as biological organisms. Killing one another does not promote or even support the continuation of a species. It does not contribute to the greater whole, so, therefore, must be a taught behavior. For if one were not to have been taught anything about religion, my belief is that the person would end up learning through natural means, therefore ensuring their own personal survival. Now of course, I'm talking about the most extreme of cases, but bare with me, I'm going to continue with my original thought very soon.
My next topic is that of politics. Politics, governmental structure, etc. may look like it promotes survival, and may even been a more "evolved" form of the animal kingdom's hierarchy. An organized society is a safer society. An organized society has more hands in which to feed everybody, therefore ensuring mutual survival. Somewhere along the line, however, things shifted. There was a small variation on which our basic survival function veered far off its original intended course. Ideology formed. The thought that "my way of thinking is better than your way of thinking" began. This of course is a behavior only shown in the human animal. Even taking the example of a pride of lions that is overtaken by a new male leader, the intent is still that of basic biological survival. The new lion comes in to oust the old one and spread his genetic material to further diversify the gene pool. This is not a matter of "my way is better than yours" it is, at a very basic level, to ensure survival. If a gene pool gets stagnant, you start to develop genetic abnormalities, defects, etc., but I digress. When one nation does not agree with another nation, or even in the microcosm, when one person does not agree with another person on a particular thought, there is no promotion of survival. These arguments turn into, at worst, a peeing match between two polarized sides, and at best, maybe a consensus can be reached. However, at the most basic of levels, the fact still remains that politics in general does not promote our most basic of instincts: to survive. The only other question that still remains (in my mind) is who taught us to behave like this, and who taught us to be so polarized in our ways of thinking, as opposed to working together to promote our own mutual survival?
Now that I have gotten that out of the way, I can better explain my stance on your original topic of why conspiracy theorists will never win. We have been taught that we must stand true to our own ideals and beliefs no matter what others may say or do. We have been taught that being an individual means that we should not listen to others' points of view and that in fact, if we do, we are just another "sheep" in the herd. My whole point in all of my rambling is that we have been taught to fight against each other from the time humans first formed civilization. I believe this thought to be more important than any of the ideologies involved in this polarization of sides. Where the "elite" have power as a common goal, the conspiracy theorists obviously have very different goals between them. Different ideals are what is causing our downfall, and I believe it to be no fault of our own. Whether it was genetic, or "divine intervention" from a god, or aliens, or what have you, the polarization that we have seen in our own little microcosm is preventing us from seeing the ultimate goal of freeing ourselves from tyrannical rule, from living in peace, and continuing the human species as a whole. The path that we are on will only lead to an eventual extinction unless we learn to shrug off what has been programmed in us since the human race's early days.
I absolutely agree with you SpartanKingLeonidas, and I hope my post has made sense. Without a consensus, and without learning to shrug off what we have been taught and what is now encoded in our DNA from thousands of years of doing the same exact thing, we will always lose against the evil that we are trying to fight.
Peace be with you.
-truthseeker
Originally posted by theability
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
Yes it would be nice for them to be tied up running circles wouldn't that be a show!
Well, it's simple, if they expect people to pick up guns, or talk about it, do not give them the satisfaction, do something completely out of character.
Remember, as humans, we instinctively have the fight or flight mentality.
What if instead of running away, you run towards, or instead of fighting, you stand your ground and do nothing whatsoever in any way to provoke action?
I am not speaking of being stupid and running into bullets zinging at you.
By God, if bullets are flying, it's literally too late, defend yourself by all means.
And if they expect you to run and you do not?
Standing your ground confuses people if they cannot make you the prey.
That's what I call a run rabbit, run scenario, they want to hunt the rabbit.
Remember, Bugs Bunny rarely ran from Yosemite Sam, and he made a fool of him.
Every single time.
If he ran it was for dramatic effect.
Yosemite Sam - I Hates Rabbits
Bugs Bunny, the perfect "Anti-Agent Provocateur", if I ever saw one.
Originally posted by theability
As for my 4 decade on this planet, I can say that government serves its own purpose to be in control and to push there views upon the masses, and I have to admit, the government does nothing for me either.
The Government, any one, take your pick which level, city, state, or country, is nothing, absolutely nothing, but a control mechanism to provide a semblance of safety.
There are so many holes within how "Government" is supposed to work, and how it actually works, that it's not even funny, and they know it.
That is why cover-ups, collusions, and crimes within Government happen, period.
Originally posted by theability
Well said, I have to say that many issues with the government are the new ways the function is self-debilitating as citizens. Not all of us are threats as the seem to propose these days.
Of course not.
But the necessary, to them, not you or I, over-inflation of "disaster" or "terrorism" is for gaining one things, and one thing only, one thing completely.
Funding.
Blackmail : Keep Your Friends Close, Keep Your Enemies Closer, The Threat of Subversion Through Fear
Why does a loud-mouthed idiot like Kim Jong-il exist except to puff out his chest?
Because according to "Government protocols" we need to see a bad guy.
If the big bad scary puppet can scare us into "donating" more taxes, so much the better.
Jeff Dunham - Achmed the Dead Terrorist
I happen to disagree with that, if there is no threat, there's no reason for funding.
Then by all means cut the funding and give me my damn tax money back.
All of it.
The Boy Who Cried N.W.O. : Are You Watching Puppet or Puppet Master's?
Originally posted by theability
Again great statement, the issue is our distractions and the plague of humanity saying again, "Well what can I do about it?"
When I was in the military we had this plastic baby we had passed around the platoon, you got to carry the thing for being a "titty-baby" and being one of those that constantly whined about oohh-woo-us-me, in other words BOO HOO!
What does this have to do these days: WE have become babies, coddled and pacified to death and act like we are helpless and pathetic, exactly what the big fed whats us to be, absolutely worthless!
That is correct.
Complaining, whining, and bitching because our pacifier is missing.
Forget the bread and circuses, focus of the ringleaders, excuse me ringmasters.
People would rather watch American Idol then get off their keister and do anything.
They want someone else to coddle them and do it for them.
And complain, whine, and bitch when it's not done right.
Meanwhile, back in Kansas, the Wicked Witch had teamed up with the Wizard.
The Wizard of Oz: Pay No Attention
It's not called the Man Behind the Curtain for no reason.
Originally, the book the Wizard of Oz was written with the "yellow brick road", symbolizing gold, and instead of ruby slippers, the slippers on the witch which had Dorothy's house drop on her were silver.
The author changed the story, because he felt the symbolism was too real, because it was about the cost of Gold verses the Silver, and people would have lynched those in power who were robbing us blind on Wall Street.
This is not the original source I read that from but it suffices for this thread.
Quote from THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ : A MONEY REFORM PARABLE
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum (Chicago, 1900) is a parable about Money Reform and the 1890s Midwestern political movement led by William Jennings Bryan (1860-1925); three times candidate for President of the United States (see his poster at bottom of this page).
From 1891-1895 Bryan served in the House of Representatives, where he advocated the coinage of silver at a fixed ratio with gold, in order to break the bankers' monopoly and manipulation of the gold-backed currency.
Bryan and his supporters accused Eastern banks and railroads of oppressing farmers and industrial workers.
Bryan believed that a switch to silver-backed currency would make money plentiful.
Although correct, Money Reformers today would argue that money need not, and should not, be backed by either silver or gold, but only by the people, their skills, and their resources.
In 1896 Bryan delivered the following words at the Democratic National Convention:
"Having behind us the producing masses of this nation and the world, supported by the commercial interests, the labouring interests, and the toilers everywhere, we will answer their [i.e. the bankers'] demand for a gold standard by saying to them: 'You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns; you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold.'"
Although only 36 years old, this speech resulted in his nomination for the presidency.
He contested, and lost to, William McKinley.
He stood again for the Democrats in 1900 and 1908, losing both times.
Bolded by SKL
You see, back when The Wizard of Oz was written by Baum, American's were intelligent about how money worked, they knew not to trust those crooks on Wall Street and in the Federal Reserve, which is by Baum changed the story.
Today, the average citizen is an idiot and a buffoon, when it comes to money.
I did say the "average" citizen, no one on ATS is average, as far as I am concerned.
The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve
Which is why the world, America, and each state is in the current screwed up position they are in right now, because the average American is politically castrated, through their mentality, they know little to nothing.
About how politics really works, about the political issues, or about the politicians.
They base their opinion upon a party, which more often than not does not give a damn about their positions, they care about the donations, and their vote is based upon sound bytes and scandals of the opposition.
Which is why the mud-slinging works so damn well it influences people easily.
People seem to love the "underdog" but they also seem to love the scandal that will rip the underdog apart and show he's gotten an intern under the desk.
Or he or she has some scary secret.
And usually it is nothing more than some crap the opposition dug up about that persons past, using it to threaten destroying them, based upon blackmail for political favors, and or funding, and or to stand down.
When the vote really counts.
Or a lobbyist group or special interest group will control the re-election machine.
Meanwhile, John Q Bacon-Winner, and Sally N. Housewife, thinks incorrectly their elected official is voting for them, and we the conspiracy theorists are allegedly nuts because we see through the charades, conspiracies, and crimes.
Happening right in front of those very citizens eyes.
The Old Shell Game
And it is due to our political ideologies, our religous views, and our perspectives.
If they can convince the mass populace that the fringe element, us conspiracy theorists, are the nutcases, and we as the politically knowledge are convinced we are ineffective, then half of their job is done.
And we all did it for them.
Those lazy bastards.
Bush Addresses the U.N. - tells the world no 911 discussions
Meanwhile all of the elements are right there for us to connect the dots.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Project for the New American Century : Statement of Principles
PNAC's first public act was releasing a "Statement of Principles" on June 3, 1997, which was signed by both its members and a variety of other notable conservative politicians and journalists (see Signatories to Statement of Principles).
The statement began by framing a series of questions, which the rest of the document proposes to answer:
As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's pre-eminent power.
Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge:
Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades?
Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?
In response to these questions, the PNAC states its aim to "remind America" of "lessons" learned from American history, drawing the following "four consequences" for America in 1997:
we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;
we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;
we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;
[and]
we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.
While "Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today," the "Statement of Principles" concludes, "it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next."
Meanwhile, the 9/11 Commission (set up, more than one year after 9/11) was formed, to cushion the cozy relationship of the Bush family with the House of Saud, from public eyes, and hamper the F.B.I. from investigating 9/11, and by forming Homeland Security, push everything under the rug by pulling the rug out from under the F.B.I., a coup within a coup, as well as forming the Transportation Security Administration, something the Federal Government had been trying to push for years and years prior to 9/11.
But no one bothers to get involved with politics because "everything's fine" as long as "Survivor" is on.
What a load of crap.
The American citizens are just as culpable as the politicians behind the scenes for the state of America.
It's time to get off our collective keisters and act.
And act right.
Get involved in politics before that becomes illegal on top of everything else.
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
It sounds like a great idea, getting into politics, except that it doesn't seem all that feasible.
The problem is that most people still get their notion on who to vote for from controlled sources that take bookoos of finances to really get a spot in positions that really count.
The problem is that the media is controlled.
Until more people wake up to this, and start getting their information from alternatives more often, then it's same old, same old.
It sounds like a great idea, getting into politics, except that it doesn't seem all that feasible.
The problem is that most people still get their notion on who to vote for from controlled sources that take bookoos of finances to really get a spot in positions that really count.
The problem is that the media is controlled.
Until more people wake up to this, and start getting their information from alternatives more often, then it's same old, same old.
Originally posted by truthseeker1984
SpartanKingLeonidas,
I find what you have said rather interesting to say the least. I've been feeling that the divide and conquer tactic has been overwhelming some of our efforts to expose and confront the true problems that are plaguing our world. I have come to some of my own conclusions about how and why we have all ended up in this very polarized mess.
It is not so much that it is overwhelming us.
It is that we are deluding ourselves into thinking conspiracy theorizing does a damn thing.
While I certainly enjoy ATS and sharing my ideas do you honestly think for the last five years I've been just sitting on my keister typing on here?
I go to the library, Barnes and Noble, I order books from Amazon.
I got physically active by becoming an adult leader in the Boy Scouts.
I talk to people, suggest books, share ideas, shake hands and make connections.
Every single connection I make, either verbal (or e-mail), books suggested, idea exchanges, hands shaken, connections made, makes an impact.
I am making ripples of my own and sending a loud and clear message.
And that message is that the elite's time is up and so is the Secret Societies.
Originally posted by truthseeker1984
I am going to paraphrase from a thread I created some time ago, and have yet to have many responses (this may sound like it is off-topic, but it will help me better explain my feelings on the issue as I go on, so please bare with me).
You go right ahead and paraphrase all you want this is about political ideologies.
That is correct survival is job one and unfortunately American's suck at it.
Politically.
We trust in those people allegedly elected for office.
Far too much.
Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/95ca72c69916.jpg[/atsimg]
Amazon Review :
From 007 to 2001, from Dealey Plaza to the Apollo Moon Flight, from the barrel of a Bulldog .44 to the corridors of the pyramids of Sirius; from the secret symbolism of Jack the Ripper to the public symbolism of the first atomic bomb blast, this work illuminates the crimes and command ideology of the masonic Cryptocracy, where ground zero meets the zero hour in a bestial crucible of ritual murder, human alchemy and demonic invasion.
Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare takes the reader to the core of a cosmic cryptogram, a dark Oz where the ancient fables become modern memes for the psychological contagion and devastation of humanity, and where the stratagem the author terms "Revelation of the Method" becomes the key to the finale of the mysteries of the ages.
I recommend the above book to you because it sounds like you're on target.
Originally posted by truthseeker1984
An example: a young child decides that he/she is going to touch a hot stove for the first time, not knowing the consequences. After the child realizes that he/she has been hurt from the hot stove, they do not touch it again. This is a learned behavior, and one that promotes survival. In the wild, an animal that sustains an injury is subject to infection, and sometimes death. These animals do everything that they can to prevent these injuries from happening so that they survive long enough to pass on their genetic code and contribute to the gene pool.
This is correct, and it is how the "elite" get away with what they do, every time.
Because their criminality has become a learned behavior.
And the citizens of America have the learned behavior of sticking their head in the sand.
We as conspiracy theorists have a tendency to talk the talk and never walk the walk.
We spin our wheels and never get engaged politically.
Ever since before the Crusades people have been killing people over religion.
That is an indisputable fact that the Bible talks about and so does the Koran.
You hit the nail on the head in your reply.
Quite a few times within the Bible the Hebrews massacre entire races.
Because "God" told them to do it.
This is in no way an attack upon the Hebrews it is merely a case I can point to.
Just as Hitler ordered the eradication of the Israelis for no apparent reason.
Except as a scapegoat for his agenda.
Religion and politics do not mix because that is a dangerous combination.
This is why "Zionists" and "Extremists" are being sought out and labeled as terrorists.
A man or woman ready to die for their cause is someone with nothing to lose.
Period.
But what of the man or woman with everything to gain and nothing to lose via taking a political stand, and being involved in politics through ideology?
That is what really worries all Governments.
Someone ready to stand for their convictions who might have followers.
Your analogy of the pissing match and survival is spot on with my thoughts.
I will give you an example of this where two polarized sides came to a head.
And I was in the middle of it.
Two now former co-workers, what I call pissing lions, came to a head one day, a fight ensued, because one bumped into the other, it was a building critical mass I saw from day one, which kept building, until it exploded.
They began screaming at each other and literally pounding their chests.
Like apes in a zoo.
I was in the middle, so to speak, about one foot back, but right in line to watch the show, and the sparks fly, and what I saw as an amusing idiocy.
One guy finally did something, he spit at the other guy, and it hit me in the face.
I just stood there watching these two idiots like a tennis match, back and forth.
Meanwhile they stepped forward and were about to throw blows.
And another co-worker came around behind me and started yelling at them and how they needed to quit fighting, and to let me out of the middle of it all.
Guess he was stupid enough to think I would step between two pissing lions.
My boss grabs him and yanks him out of the way, blocking one of the other idiots.
I stepped in to the more aggressive of the two, the one who had been spat at, he was more physically aggressive, and more muscular, by far more dangerous.
And I stepped up into his face politely.
Suggesting he go to the back of the store and talk with me.
And I suggested the manager escort the spitter outside to isolate him.
Later on the guy who tried to step in asked me why I didn't step in and stop them.
I told him you never step between two dogs and a bone you will always get bit.
My political ideology there was simple, it was office politics, after all.
Let the two idiots beat the crap out of each other and keep everyone else safe.
Then throw them out on their keisters.
The man asking me why I didn't stop them asked me the next question.
"You mean situations dictates tactics?"
I told him he was correct and each situation dictated a different tactic.
Your next part about the "sheep" in the "herd" is right on too.
We are taught to keep our heads down and go to the slaughter peacefully.
And when we stray out of line, out of the herd, the sheepdogs, they come knocking.
The Working Sheepdog ( Border Collies ) in training
This is those incidents where we get a speeding ticket, or arrested for smoking pot, or even shown as a nutcase on Bill O'Reilly talking of conspiracy theories.
Another good example is Wyle E. Coyote and Sam the Sheepdog.
This is of course more apropos towards the False-Flag Operations.
(HD) Wile e Coyote - Way 3 to fall down
But we are trotting along like the Boy Who Cried Wolf and blaming often imaginary "wolves", or ones no one suspects are wolves, like Dick Cheney.
Instead of getting into the political arena ourselves.
Originally posted by truthseeker1984
I absolutely agree with you SpartanKingLeonidas, and I hope my post has made sense. Without a consensus, and without learning to shrug off what we have been taught and what is now encoded in our DNA from thousands of years of doing the same exact thing, we will always lose against the evil that we are trying to fight.
Peace be with you.
-truthseeker
Everything you said made perfect sense.
With our apathy which has set in our apathetic lives are pathetic.
We need to shake up our bretheren in the conspiracy theory community.
And stop being a spinning wheel and begin getting traction.
If we do not get off of our collective keisters we're just as relevant as a cartoon.
Lil' Bush
I for one intend to actually make a positive impact upon the world.
And not end up like some idiot Lee Harvey Oswald patsy.
Nor will I end up being some cliif note in history as "those crazy conspiracy nuts".
Because guess what?
If we do not decisively act through political action someone else will decide.
Decider
Othwerwise this can and will begin happening to more and more of us.
Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Rendition and Torture Program
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/83902a040560.jpg[/atsimg]
Amazon Review :
On June 10th, 2002, Attorney General John Ashcroft announced that the US had captured a known terrorist who was exploring a plan to explode a "dirty bomb" on American soil.
That alleged terrorist was José Padilla who was finally charged in 2005 with conspiracy to murder.
What Ashcroft didn't talk about was how information against him was obtained – by the relentless torture of one man-- Binyam Mohamed, in the name of the United States.
Arrested at Karachi Airport before Padilla’s arrest on April 10, 2002, Mohamed was put on a luxury executive jet and flown to an interrogation center in Morocco.
For over 18 months, he was subjected to one torture after another:
Beating followed beating and, then, his guards produced razor blades and began to split the skin all over his body, including on his genitals.
Since 1997, hundreds of people, many of whom have no ties to terrorist organizations, have been abducted from foreign airports or street corners on suspicions based at times on the flimsiest of evidence courtesy of the United States Central Intelligence Agency.
In Ghost Plane, Stephen Grey tells the true story of the CIA's torture program known by the euphemism "extraordinary rendition" and the airplanes that make the program run.
Begun during the Clinton administration, but taking a decidedly more voracious turn after 9/11, the rendition system has seen the transfer of more than 1000 prisoners into jails stretching from Guantanamo to Syria, from Kabul to Bangkok and beyond.
Grey had access to the thousands of CIA flight records and has interviewed dozens of sources from the most senior levels of the National Security Council to the CIA.
In Ghost Plane, he paints a disturbing picture of the War on Terror that reaches to the highest levels of power in Washington, D.C. and exposes the extreme ethical corruption at the heart of this US government program, a program finally acknowledged by President George Bush in September 2006, undertaken in the name of the citizens of the United States.
Either that or Guantanamo is "closed" on paper but becomes a secret prison or those F.E.M.A. Camps open.
If we use our political ideologies for more than paperweights we can actually make a positive impact.
Instead of a negative one upon the world where we become the "lone nut" being talked about.
Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You
Rendition Trailer
[edit on 25-6-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
Very good thread. I read about a lot of people here feeling overwhelmed and under armed, but if we share ideas we also come up with new ones. I've posted on ATS on the subject of conspiracies a number of times, for many reasons but for the most part because conspiracies as a concept provide very precise physical tools in understanding human behavior as well as subjective-factored AI systems. I was first exposed to conspiracy as a concept in my first job when introduced to its action figure, compartmentalization. I also designed simulations, models, and "war games"for my company and clients. Later I saw similarities between conspiracy and secrecy, covert and criminal activity and how people perceived and reacted to them. The people who where most likely to believe in a conspiracy real or imagined were the ones who felt they were or are the victim of an injustice, the got short stick, etc. If they didn't considered themselves victimized, there were events that were usually large in scope and and long in duration things they did not understand and could not control. If answers and response is not prompt the next step is people need a villain (sound familiar?) Next was was peoples suspicion of an event based on perceptions or events after the fact. As in the Kennedy Assassination, who along with RFK I believe these were true, classic conspiracies. But not perfect. If perfect we never would have questioned the party line. Also when authority seem to duck, contradict themselves, lie and get that looks bad. Does it feel like a conspiracy? Actually, quite rarely. If it involves government. it angers me because I also pay taxes, other then disinformation, never underestimate the killing power pointed at your tax money of "civil stupid" A conspiracy to be successful does not have to be perfect. It just has to be effective. As for the Moon Landing being fake? AAGGHH! Please, if you think it was not real ASK THE RUSSIANS Please! Don't you think the Russians who were watching every second would have kept a fake landing quite?
There are certain quite normal activities that can look "suspicious", if conspiratorial there not doing a good job. I heard a story years ago from a retired FBI agent about an operation that was blown because an operative got into an argument with his target. If he had worked for me he would have wished he was killed in the line of fire. A number of things are important, but THE cardinal rule that those the conspiracy is directed at is for them NO SURPRISES it must flow effortlessly, and be unmemorable.
A conspiracy requires a minimum of two people. Engaged in an activity
they want to conceal from every one else. Legally many criminal activities are conspiracies, but I see operations more as components,process,results. Its easy to confuse though often joined at the hip deception and conspiracy, but its really very easy. Conspiracy is deception riding a Harley. Its braking, turning, stopping. and having a hell of a lot of fun doing it. A conspiracy is a virtual perception and recognition of an anticipated reality that is false. The goal is you see it, you believe it, you act on it. The best conspiracy is the best theater. One way people can gain self confidence which is important if you want to involved in activity to change or influence something, is you alone control. That could be internet research. The more control we feel we have, the less vulnerable we feel. But in reality we are less vulnerable to things like coercion, even deception. Not all conspiracies are sneaky, well yes, they are but I don't care. For example in case where people in certain parts of the world are taken advantage of by warlords, petty officials, (very petty), people may be the wrong tribe, religion (sound familiar), they may be denied food, medicine, education or worse. But there are people who care and want to help. And if they use methods less then conventional, who am I to judge? Anyway, the way I see it. "Conspiracies are not sneaky. People are sneaky"
[edit on 25/6/10 by arbiture]
[edit on 25/6/10 by arbiture]
Very good thread. I read about a lot of people here feeling overwhelmed and under armed, but if we share ideas we also come up with new ones. I've posted on ATS on the subject of conspiracies a number of times, for many reasons but for the most part because conspiracies as a concept provide very precise physical tools in understanding human behavior as well as subjective-factored AI systems. I was first exposed to conspiracy as a concept in my first job when introduced to its action figure, compartmentalization. I also designed simulations, models, and "war games"for my company and clients. Later I saw similarities between conspiracy and secrecy, covert and criminal activity and how people perceived and reacted to them. The people who where most likely to believe in a conspiracy real or imagined were the ones who felt they were or are the victim of an injustice, the got short stick, etc. If they didn't considered themselves victimized, there were events that were usually large in scope and and long in duration things they did not understand and could not control. If answers and response is not prompt the next step is people need a villain (sound familiar?) Next was was peoples suspicion of an event based on perceptions or events after the fact. As in the Kennedy Assassination, who along with RFK I believe these were true, classic conspiracies. But not perfect. If perfect we never would have questioned the party line. Also when authority seem to duck, contradict themselves, lie and get that looks bad. Does it feel like a conspiracy? Actually, quite rarely. If it involves government. it angers me because I also pay taxes, other then disinformation, never underestimate the killing power pointed at your tax money of "civil stupid" A conspiracy to be successful does not have to be perfect. It just has to be effective. As for the Moon Landing being fake? AAGGHH! Please, if you think it was not real ASK THE RUSSIANS Please! Don't you think the Russians who were watching every second would have kept a fake landing quite?
There are certain quite normal activities that can look "suspicious", if conspiratorial there not doing a good job. I heard a story years ago from a retired FBI agent about an operation that was blown because an operative got into an argument with his target. If he had worked for me he would have wished he was killed in the line of fire. A number of things are important, but THE cardinal rule that those the conspiracy is directed at is for them NO SURPRISES it must flow effortlessly, and be unmemorable.
A conspiracy requires a minimum of two people. Engaged in an activity
they want to conceal from every one else. Legally many criminal activities are conspiracies, but I see operations more as components,process,results. Its easy to confuse though often joined at the hip deception and conspiracy, but its really very easy. Conspiracy is deception riding a Harley. Its braking, turning, stopping. and having a hell of a lot of fun doing it. A conspiracy is a virtual perception and recognition of an anticipated reality that is false. The goal is you see it, you believe it, you act on it. The best conspiracy is the best theater. One way people can gain self confidence which is important if you want to involved in activity to change or influence something, is you alone control. That could be internet research. The more control we feel we have, the less vulnerable we feel. But in reality we are less vulnerable to things like coercion, even deception. Not all conspiracies are sneaky, well yes, they are but I don't care. For example in case where people in certain parts of the world are taken advantage of by warlords, petty officials, (very petty), people may be the wrong tribe, religion (sound familiar), they may be denied food, medicine, education or worse. But there are people who care and want to help. And if they use methods less then conventional, who am I to judge? Anyway, the way I see it. "Conspiracies are not sneaky. People are sneaky"
[edit on 25/6/10 by arbiture]
[edit on 25/6/10 by arbiture]
Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
It sounds like a great idea, getting into politics, except that it doesn't seem all that feasible.
Well of course not.
It is not as simple as running and winning.
It is a lot of hard work and it pays off too.
Originally posted by unityemissions
The problem is that most people still get their notion on who to vote for from controlled sources that take bookoos of finances to really get a spot in positions that really count.
This is of course correct too.
Except for our own ability to raise funds, buy television, or radio time slots.
Through non-profits and policy think-tanks.
How To Overthrow Your Own Government, Legally and Without Violence, In Order To Survive
But people are lazy and want M-16's and C-4 to take it all back.
Originally posted by unityemissions
The problem is that the media is controlled.
It is as controlled as we allow it to be.
Period.
If you do not pay for the advertisement space to counter the idiots they win.
Yes, it is expensive, but so is sitting on your keister, and letting someone else run the city, state, or country, in fact it's more expensive.
Originally posted by unityemissions
Until more people wake up to this, and start getting their information from alternatives more often, then it's same old, same old.
Correct again.
Which is why we need to shake off the apathy and cobwebs.
And quit accepting the same old song and dance.
Godsmack - Speak
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
Right now I think out of character for the US, would be for us to do something! Actually get together once again as a nation and demand Leadership from our elected officials. I haven't seen one session of congress in the last 20 years that hasn't started with, Raising their salaries!
PATHETIC!
Bugs is the best in the world when it comes to thinking in the fast lane with adversaries. If all leader thought like he did the country wouldn't be in the position it is today. Sad that a cartoon character has more moral standing than our elected leaders!
Think about all the fear they generate through this one thing, if we don't have the money we cannot protect you.
Sad that our system is so sick and corrupted. But I have seen that Democracy is the system that tolerates the most internal corruption of all government systems abroad.
The sad thing is, when a true threat presents itself, the system we have let slide into to place isn't going to protect anyone, except the elite that control it. Thus leaving the people to rot, while the few elitist are off hiding from the true threat somewhere else.
There is no police to serve and protect. There is not politicians that are for the people. Why doesn't the country see this and Demand Action?
Ahh that is right, American Idol right? Don't get me started on the Lie Box (TV)
Like that would ever ever happen. I look forward to the day that the money isn't worth a thing and the system falls apart, then moving on to barter and living in unison maybe....
Ohh there doing it for them, taking the money and running.
Wow I did not know this, awesome.
Well said! I applause you for this comment!
Again the reason why they powers do not want us to get along ever!
The biggest threat to any government is the realization by the masses that, "Hey we can do this without the government, lets cut the cord!"
Again the corruption of giving raises as first order every term is sickening to say the least.
Being an elected official should be honorary not paid!
The typical election these days is all about dirt on the other party and not about what truth about office is about, the People and the plans for the future country.
Like in Ohio when 340,000 dead people woke from the grave and voted?
I guess no one gets the threat of don't ask the obvious, right?
...And we need create a new pear harbor to instill this change, so that it won't take a century, but a few years to manifest.
The country is in hijack stasis.
The conspiracy continues
[edit on 25-6-2010 by theability]
Well, it's simple, if they expect people to pick up guns, or talk about it, do not give them the satisfaction, do something completely out of character.
Right now I think out of character for the US, would be for us to do something! Actually get together once again as a nation and demand Leadership from our elected officials. I haven't seen one session of congress in the last 20 years that hasn't started with, Raising their salaries!
PATHETIC!
Bugs Bunny, the perfect "Anti-Agent Provocateur", if I ever saw one.
Bugs is the best in the world when it comes to thinking in the fast lane with adversaries. If all leader thought like he did the country wouldn't be in the position it is today. Sad that a cartoon character has more moral standing than our elected leaders!
Funding.
Think about all the fear they generate through this one thing, if we don't have the money we cannot protect you.
Sad that our system is so sick and corrupted. But I have seen that Democracy is the system that tolerates the most internal corruption of all government systems abroad.
Blackmail : Keep Your Friends Close, Keep Your Enemies Closer, The Threat of Subversion Through Fear Why does a loud-mouthed idiot like Kim Jong-il exist except to puff out his chest?Because according to "Government protocols" we need to see a bad guy. If the big bad scary puppet can scare us into "donating" more taxes, so much the better.
The sad thing is, when a true threat presents itself, the system we have let slide into to place isn't going to protect anyone, except the elite that control it. Thus leaving the people to rot, while the few elitist are off hiding from the true threat somewhere else.
There is no police to serve and protect. There is not politicians that are for the people. Why doesn't the country see this and Demand Action?
Ahh that is right, American Idol right? Don't get me started on the Lie Box (TV)
Then by all means cut the funding and give me my damn tax money back.
All of it.
The Boy Who Cried N.W.O. : Are You Watching Puppet or Puppet Master's?
Like that would ever ever happen. I look forward to the day that the money isn't worth a thing and the system falls apart, then moving on to barter and living in unison maybe....
They want someone else to coddle them and do it for them.
Ohh there doing it for them, taking the money and running.
Although only 36 years old, this speech resulted in his nomination for the presidency.
Wow I did not know this, awesome.
I did say the "average" citizen, no one on ATS is average, as far as I am concerned.
Well said! I applause you for this comment!
Which is why the world, America, and each state is in the current screwed up position they are in right now, because the average American is politically castrated, through their mentality, they know little to nothing.
Again the reason why they powers do not want us to get along ever!
The biggest threat to any government is the realization by the masses that, "Hey we can do this without the government, lets cut the cord!"
They base their opinion upon a party, which more often than not does not give a damn about their positions, they care about the donations, and their vote is based upon sound bytes and scandals of the opposition.
Again the corruption of giving raises as first order every term is sickening to say the least.
Being an elected official should be honorary not paid!
And usually it is nothing more than some crap the opposition dug up about that persons past, using it to threaten destroying them, based upon blackmail for political favors, and or funding, and or to stand down.
The typical election these days is all about dirt on the other party and not about what truth about office is about, the People and the plans for the future country.
...When the vote really counts...
Or a lobbyist group or special interest group will control the re-election machine.
Like in Ohio when 340,000 dead people woke from the grave and voted?
Bush Addresses the U.N. - tells the world no 911 discussions
I guess no one gets the threat of don't ask the obvious, right?
PNAC's first public act was releasing a "Statement of Principles" on June 3, 1997, which was signed by both its members and a variety of other notable conservative politicians and journalists (see Signatories to Statement of Principles).
The statement began by framing a series of questions, which the rest of the document proposes to answer:
As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's pre-eminent power.
Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge:
Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades?
Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?
In response to these questions, the PNAC states its aim to "remind America" of "lessons" learned from American history, drawing the following "four consequences" for America in 1997:
we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;
we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;
we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;
...And we need create a new pear harbor to instill this change, so that it won't take a century, but a few years to manifest.
The country is in hijack stasis.
The conspiracy continues
[edit on 25-6-2010 by theability]
I wouldn't say never. We are indeed divided and the level of unity needed to rise up so to speak and reclaim our power seems a pipe dream at the
moment. However some unifying force or incident can change all that. A good example is WWII. Most of the country was divided or disinterested in that
war until pearl harbor and then the country united to fight it.
Now I know much of the conspiracy associated with it but am just using it as an example of a unifying force or incident. Also indeed the powers that be have used thier own incidents such as the tonkin gulf or 9/11 to unite the people to go along with there plans in Vietnam and Iraq etc.
I have hope at some point America and perhaps the world will have some unifying event/s to help usher in a new age of peace and enlightenment. I believe it will happen but cannot say when or how. However there are many things in play right now that could potentially serve that purpose. Like the Gulf leak, the economy, and unemployment, foreclosures etc. Or perhaps a combination of all of it will hit a critical mass and enough people will unite. I know it seems unlikely at the moment but at some point that will change IMO.
[edit on 25-6-2010 by hawkiye]
Now I know much of the conspiracy associated with it but am just using it as an example of a unifying force or incident. Also indeed the powers that be have used thier own incidents such as the tonkin gulf or 9/11 to unite the people to go along with there plans in Vietnam and Iraq etc.
I have hope at some point America and perhaps the world will have some unifying event/s to help usher in a new age of peace and enlightenment. I believe it will happen but cannot say when or how. However there are many things in play right now that could potentially serve that purpose. Like the Gulf leak, the economy, and unemployment, foreclosures etc. Or perhaps a combination of all of it will hit a critical mass and enough people will unite. I know it seems unlikely at the moment but at some point that will change IMO.
[edit on 25-6-2010 by hawkiye]
new topics
-
Lunacy
Short Stories: 25 minutes ago -
Political Labels Quizzes
Political Ideology: 43 minutes ago -
Why Dems Are Probably Wishing Trump Won in 2020...
US Political Madness: 1 hours ago -
Pure Love is simple.
Philosophy and Metaphysics: 1 hours ago -
Interesting timing 40 monkeys flee medical lab in US
Diseases and Pandemics: 2 hours ago -
All Talk No Walk Celebrities Blowing Smoke
US Political Madness: 4 hours ago -
Arizona and Nevada Called for Trump – Giving Trump 312 Electoral Votes
2024 Elections: 4 hours ago -
A question about abortion and the states
US Political Madness: 7 hours ago -
What shenanigans are at play with the house races?
2024 Elections: 8 hours ago -
Young People and Social Media
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 10 hours ago
top topics
-
What shenanigans are at play with the house races?
2024 Elections: 8 hours ago, 12 flags -
All Talk No Walk Celebrities Blowing Smoke
US Political Madness: 4 hours ago, 11 flags -
Young People and Social Media
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 10 hours ago, 10 flags -
Arizona and Nevada Called for Trump – Giving Trump 312 Electoral Votes
2024 Elections: 4 hours ago, 10 flags -
Interesting timing 40 monkeys flee medical lab in US
Diseases and Pandemics: 2 hours ago, 9 flags -
A question about abortion and the states
US Political Madness: 7 hours ago, 7 flags -
DC Votes
US Political Madness: 17 hours ago, 5 flags -
Why Dems Are Probably Wishing Trump Won in 2020...
US Political Madness: 1 hours ago, 4 flags -
Pure Love is simple.
Philosophy and Metaphysics: 1 hours ago, 2 flags -
Political Labels Quizzes
Political Ideology: 43 minutes ago, 0 flags
active topics
-
Arizona and Nevada Called for Trump – Giving Trump 312 Electoral Votes
2024 Elections • 27 • : WeMustCare -
Interesting timing 40 monkeys flee medical lab in US
Diseases and Pandemics • 13 • : 38181 -
Kamala Address the Nation -- Nov 6 2024 4pm EST
2024 Elections • 71 • : xuenchen -
Lunacy
Short Stories • 0 • : BingoMcGoof -
-@TH3WH17ERABB17- -Q- ---TIME TO SHOW THE WORLD--- -Part- --44--
Dissecting Disinformation • 3170 • : MetalThunder -
All Talk No Walk Celebrities Blowing Smoke
US Political Madness • 36 • : Flyingclaydisk -
Political Labels Quizzes
Political Ideology • 0 • : FullHeathen -
On Nov. 5th 2024 - AMERICANS Prevented the Complete Destruction of America from Within.
2024 Elections • 92 • : network dude -
Why Dems Are Probably Wishing Trump Won in 2020...
US Political Madness • 0 • : putnam6 -
A question about abortion and the states
US Political Madness • 27 • : xuenchen