Citizen's group taking border battle into own hands

If these guys are effective Obama will have "full media blackout" in effect on the event. Wouldn't want effective non government interventions catching on would they.

hooo Booooy! This is going to be reeaaaal fun now!

Now as a Canadian, I can assure America that we *mostly*
don't have the same problem with the northern borders
as you have down south simply because the AVERAGE
citizen in Canada is quite wealthy, while the AVERAGE
Mexican is NOT so there is no need for us Canadians to
overflow the border unless it's for the Blue Water Special Sale
at Old Navy on July 4th at Bellis Fair Mall, WA aka
5 pairs of sandals for 5 bucks!

....BUT TO ADD MY 3 CANADIAN CENTS....

I can only see this ending very, very badly because
more than a few of the armed drug smugglers are
part of Los Zetas who are PROFESSIONAL SOLDIERS
who've been PROFESSIONALY TRAINED in a
special training centre called:

"School of the Americas"

See:
en.wikipedia.org...

and

pangaea.org...

They also have PROFESSIONAL, MILITARY GRADE
Night vision, REAL rocket launchers, mortars, grenades
REAL missiles....REAL H&K's and Full-Auto M16's and REAL
50 cal sniper rifles and REAL up-armoured MILITARY
humvees.

Ergo...these vigilante guys are going up against
a PROFESSIONAL ARMY that KNOWS how to kill
and kill well! They are also EXPERT tacticians,
expert night fighters and have had EXPERT TRAINING
in guerrilla warfighting tactics...They also have an
expensive security & anti-surveillence setup which is
into the TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars with encrypted radios,
infra-red and optical night-vision, audio telescopes,
automatic machine-based intrusion detection systems and
whole lot of the BEST military gear that money can buy!

Basically the vigilantes are setting themselves up to
lose BIG TIME! These aren't Mexican Country Bumpkins
wanting to make a few bucks smuggling blow across
the border, ZETAS are PROS, many of whom are also
POLITICALLY motivated, not just monetarily motivated.

And they were trained by some of the BEST warfighters
in the USA --- your own CIA and Armed Forces personnel
with all the latest tactics and weapons. THEY KNOW WHAT
THEY ARE DOING!

If you want to reclaim your southern border, you're going to
NEED PROFESSIONAL GRADE WEAPONS, PROFESSIONAL-LEVEL
tactics, high-level surveillence and a WILLINGNESS TO FIGHT
not just in the Arizona border areas but to INFILTRATE INTO
MEXICO with WELL-TRAINED personnel who'll fight like
REAL SOLDIERS --- SUPER-FAST, ULTRA-HARD & TOTALLY-LETHAL !!!!

I just want to re-iterate --- Zetas are PROS....so if you want
to take your border areas back, you better have at least
1000 WELL-TRAINED men with full-auto M16's, ARMOURED vehicles
armed to the teeth with 50 cals, and you NEED to pursue
them BACK into Mexico and HUNT THEM DOWN WITH NO LETUP
WITH A FULL PURSUIT DOWN TO THE LAST MAN !!!!!!
Zetas will hit back HARD if you don't knock them out
FIRST with LETHAL FIREPOWER!

Realistically, the vigilantes don't have the guts or TRAINING
to fight that sort of scenario. Facts are Facts! To HUNT soldiers
you NEED soldiers....REAL ONES WITH REAL WEAPONS AND
MOST IMPORTANTLY REAL INTELLIGENCE AND PRO-GRADE TACTICS!

I see this as a no-win scenario, especially since these vigilantes
seem to be allied with or are part of neo-nazi groups which
is all the more political dynamite for the media and government
to feed upon. I suspect the Los Zetas are not so amused by this
thread and WILL BE well-prepared for any assault and probably
they will find, hunt and KILL those responsible for advocating
these actions and since they have a geographical reach you
would NOT BELIEVE I would be very, very worried.

Leave this to the PROS....aka U.S. Armed Forces who are
armed enough and trained enough to deal with people
like Los Zetas!

THIS IS NOT A GAME!

You're fighting a REAL ARMY THAT HAS REAL TRAINING !!!!!!!!



[edit on 2010/6/18 by StargateSG7]

Originally posted by Shikamaru
Now let's see what a Mexican drug dealer knows how to do.

1. Sever a human head when 5 of his friends help him hold you down.
2. Spray a miscellaneous calliber machine gun into anything.
3. Be on drugs while transporting drugs.
4. Stand up in a convertible convoy truck, completely leaving themselves open to any kind of life-threatening kil shot.

-------------

My Point?

It takes only a few key players to destroy these mexican drug smugglers and convoys. My prediction is that you'll have a bunch of over-powered rifles killing them 1 by 1, while the mexicans spray rampartly in the air in anger. Ofcourse, this group will meet with controversial hypocriticism when they finally take back the land and prevent truck loads of drugs coming into this country, but then again, so did some of our veterans.

Sad story. History Repeats itself.

Oh you also forgot that ex-special op. personnel enlisted in the drug army ranks (for example, Los Zetas), as does the Mexican police force.

The group is extremely well armed, they wear body armor and some wear Kevlar ballistic helmets; their arsenal includes AR-15 and AK-47 rifles, MP5 submachine guns, .50 cal. machine guns, grenade launchers, surface-to-air missiles, dynamite and helicopters.[6] They are known to operate with modern wiretapping equipment. Los Zetas is known to operate with a higher tactical degree than the local authorities, often uniformed as Federal Preventive Police and driving similarly labeled vehicles.

Your obviously full of ignorance and have no idea what your talking about. If you think taking down a guerrilla force of spec. op with a redneck militia will be a walk in the park, then you have a serious reality check coming your way.

reply to post by mothershipzeta


Although I'll give you that the Nazis are 2nd worse only to Communists (who killed more people than Hitler, probably 10 fold), I can't agree with you about groups like La Raza.

When I see groups like La Raza and CAIR on TV, they have agendas that are group specific, to the determent of other groups. Just as you say raza has many meanings, so CAIR says jihad has many meanings, just to cover their butts on it's real meaning.

No, La Raza is a brown power movement as the Nazis and the KKK are white power movements, I've seen them say so on TV myself. They are a separatist movement.

Also, go on the websites of who organized the protests in Arizona and in LA receintly. They are groups like Communist Party of America, Center for American Progress, Democratic Socalists of America and many other similar groups. Don't believe me, look it up for yourself.

Then remember, Communists killed many more people than the Nazis ever did!

For those of you thinking the Mexican Drug Cartel has the persona of Tony Montana and has no weapon (combat) training is sorely mistaken. A lot of these guerillas are from the Mexican army and are there soley for saftey of the drugs and transporters. These arent some nickel and dime drug dealers with a .22 hand gun.

WTF...?

They've got a damn National-Socialist group in Arizona, vowing to commit mass murders of Mexican immigrants just because they are without a status (so where most of your descendants when they arrived on this land), and you've got all these ATS members telling them "godspeed"!? Getting manipulated by the nearest neo-Nazi, White-supremacist barker, out of their discontent for their government, so they will shoot ordinary PEOPLE who have absolutely no political power?

You people obviously don't know your history...

AGAINST WHO YOUR GRANDPARENTS FOUGHT AGAINST IN THE '40s??? Against the nasty commie-liberal-three-huggers-hippies that keep borders open? No. It was against these people who've been manipulated out of their resentment by some sick, sociopathic politicians who made them do crimes against humanity and support a fascist dictatorship!!! IT WAS AGAINST A NATIONAL-SOCIALIST MOVEMENT, YOU DIMWITS!!!

NAZI stands for "NAtionalsoZIalismus" in German, which translates to "National-Socialism" in American English. Do you need a drawing for that, or something?

So now you gonna accuse Obama of being the new Hitler, while at the same time you are supporting the same GENOCIDAL and xenophobic policies than Hitler, as well as repression of gays, leftists and whoever doesn't legally fit in your "New Republic"???


HELLOOO??? Time to wake up from your psychosis before it's too late!

Wanna fight the real political enemy that's a threat to American civil liberties and the Constitution?

Fight fascism!


[edit on 18/6/10 by Echtelion]

reply to post by BiGGz


You are still leaving out the point that our guys have a habit of utilizing kill shots from hidden areas, using camoflauge.

These dealers are over-zealous and egotistical. It's a psychological trait they carry that will cause their downfall. Plus, by announcing themselves to the media as this group has done, how many wagon-riders do you think this will attract? 1000 men as an earlier poster provided, is an easy number to achieve when you consider how many people with the same mentality and a rifle are posted all over this country.

Some with very unique talent, some ex-military, some with more than 40 years of hunting experience.

I foresee the convoy being ignorant of what they're getting into pissing off abunch of over-reactive citizens. If not clean slate of dead dealers all over the desert, we'll see a bloodbath with gradual losses on either side.

But you can't call these guys "rednecks" and expect them all to be drinking moonshine while doing this. We underestimate the power of many civilians... that's what the government has instilled in us. The FEAR to not stand up for ourselves.

Originally posted by Procession101

Originally posted by warpcrafter
I'm sure that they will defend themselves from anybody who comes for them, be they Mexican or American. This situation could become explosive quickly, but somebody has to stand up and try to stop the cartels. I wish them luck.

It really isn't their jobs to be in the line of fire since they have no authority what so ever, say what you will about it's every americans right and job. They have no formal training in drug interdiction and could really cause more harm then good in the situation overall. I got to give it to them though they are brave souls and I commend them for wanting to defend their country.

Then who HAS the authority? All U.S. of America authority is granted by the COTUS, and the COTUS states that the people have the right.

Last time I checked, these are people of the US.

Drug interdiction training...lol. yeah ok. It's done WONDERS so far hasn't it?

No what we need is some no nonsense, anihilate anyone in the drug trade. They have declared war on the US and its territories and as you saw it coming and tried to cut it off at the pass so to speak, It IS every Americans duty to protect it from foreign invaders, and that is EXACTLY what these drug cartels are.

Jaden

I'm pretty sure that the US government would deploy more resources to fight this problem if they had them.

I totally symapthize with those who say that the Arizona government should just call a state of emergency and bring the National Guard in. They might even do it if they thought that would do the trick.

Yes, it certainly is annoying. Maybe the "drug war" isn't as winnable as you have been told by politicians for the past fifty years or so?

Anyways, I would think it is hardly anything to celebrate that NAZIs are using this as part of a PR battle and I certainly agree with those who state that they are probably not going to have any impact at all in any practical terms.

I should point out that even in Canada we have "no go" areas where the police and army won't go to enforce Canadian law - such as certain "First Nation" reserves which happen to be centres of illegal activity such as smuggling. Not a good reflection on law enforcement and national sovereignty in Canada either, but I don't think I would be cheering if a bunch of NAZI militia said they were going to go into those areas to make them safe for ordinary Canadians.

Originally posted by StargateSG7
hooo Booooy! This is going to reeaaaal fun now!

Now as a Canadian, I can assure America that we *mostly*
don't have the same problem with the northern borders
as you have down south simply because the AVERAGE
citizen in Canada is quite wealthy, while the AVERAGE
Mexican is NOT so there is no need for us Canadian to
overflow the border unless it's the Blue Water Special Sale
at Old Navy on July 4th at Bellis Fair mall!

....BUT TO ADD MY 3 CANADIAN CENTS....

I can only see this ending badly because
more than a few of the Armed drug smugglers
are Zetas who are PROFESSIONAL SOLDIERS
who've been PROFESSIONALY TRAINED in a
special training centre called:

"School of the Americas"

See:
en.wikipedia.org...

and

pangaea.org...

They also have PROFESSIONAL, MILITARY GRADE
Night vision, REAL rocket launchers, mortars, grenades
REAL missiles....REAL H&K's and Full-Auto M16's and REAL
50 cal sniper rifles and REAL up-armoured MILITARY
humvees.

Ergo...these vigilante guys are going up against
a PROFESSIONAL ARMY that KNOWS how to kill
and kill well! They are also EXPERT tacticians,
expert night fighters and have had EXPERT TRAINING
in guerrilla warfighting tactics...They also have an
expensive security anti-surveillence setup which is
into the TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars with encrypted radios,
infra-red and optical night-vision, audio telescopes,
automatic machine-based intrusion detection systems and
whole lot of the BEST military gear that money can buy!

Basically the vigilantes are setting themselves up to
lose BIG TIME! These aren't Mexican Country Bumpkins
wanting to make a few bucks smuggling blow across
the border, ZETAS are PROS, many of whom are also
POLITICALLY motivated, not just monetarily motivated.

And they were trained by some of the BEST warfighters
in the USA --- your own CIA and Armed Forces personnel
with all the latest tactics and weapons. THEY KNOW WHAT
THEY ARE DOING!

If you want to reclaim your southern border, you're going to
NEED PROFESSIONAL GRADE WEAPONS, PROFESSIONAL-LEVEL
tactics, high level surveillence and a WILLINGNESS TO FIGHT
not just in the Arizona borders areas but to INFILTRATE INTO
MEXICO with WELL-TRAINED personnel who'll fight like
REAL SOLDIERS --- SUPER-FAST, ULTRA-HARD & TOTALLY-LETHAL !!!!

I just want to re-iterate --- Zetas are PROS....so if you want
to take your border areas back, you better have at least
1000 men with full-auto M16's, ARMOURED vehicles
armed to the teeth with 50 cals, and you NEED to pursue
them BACK into Mexico and HUNT THEM DOWN WITH NO LETUP
WITH A FULL PURSUIT DOWN TO THE LAST MAN !!!!!!
Zetas will hit back HARD if you don't knock them out
FIRST with LETHAL FIREPOWER!

Realistically the vigilantes don't have the guts or TRAINING
to fight that sort of scenario. Facts are Facts. To HUNT soldiers
you NEED soldiers....REAL ONES WITH REAL WEAPONS AND
MOST IMPORTANTLY REAL INTELLIGENCE AND PRO-GRADE TACTICS!

I disagree. A single BlackOps or SpecOps team could destroy their entire operation. And the apathy/abandonment of the federal government + flooding in of illegal drug traffickers might be just the incentive to motivate a team of former Special Forces to unite and take on the task. There are thousands of former SpecOps in America. You only need one small team. If we had just five teams, we would absolutely guarantee success.

reply to post by MCAinSTL

No, La Raza is a brown power movement as the Nazis and the KKK are white power movements, I've seen them say so on TV myself. They are a separatist movement.

True, but there are many groups who use the word La Raza. The La Raza you speak of is often confused with this La Raza.

This La Raza is similar to the NAACP.

The Racist La Raza is just a small group like the KKK and most Mexicans don't share their view.

reply to post by ziggyproductions05


Although I'm against this, as I understand it, there are many in the militia that are ex-military that have killed people. What needs to be done is educating American citizens and the world.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by TruthSeeker8300]

Originally posted by Echtelion
WTF...?

They've got a damn National-Socialist group in Arizona, vowing to commit mass murders of immigrants form Mexico jsut because they are without a status, and you've got all these ATS members telling them "godspeed"!? Getting manipulated by the nearest neo-Nazi, White-supremacist barker, out of their discontent for their government, so they will shoot ordinary PEOPLE who have absolutely no political power?

You people obviously don't know your history...

AGAINST WHO YOUR GRANDPARENTS FOUGHT AGAINST IN THE '40s??? Against the nasty commie-liberal-three-huggers-hippies? No. It was against these people who've been manipulated out of their resentment by some sick, sociopathic politicians who made them do crimes against humanity and support a fascist dictatorship!!! IT WAS AGAINST A NATIONAL-SOCIALIST MOVEMENT, YOU DIMWITS!!!

NAZI stands for "NAtionalsoZIalismus" in German, which translates to "National-Socialism" in American English. Do you need a drawing for that, or something?

So now you gonna accuse Obama of being the new Hitler, while at the same time you are supporting the same GENOCIDAL and xenophobic policies than Hitler, as well as repression of gays, leftists and whoever doesn't legally fit in your "New Republic"???


HELLOOO??? Time to wake up from your psychosis before it's too late!

Wanna fight the real political ennemy?

Fight fascism!

Sorry it seems you posted this while I was posting and I didn't get to read it... But, did you forget they are bringing DRUGS upon DRUGS into this country? Did you forget they've taken over 80 miles of land from these US Citizens. Did you forget YOUR recent history? While some of these members might just want to see some heads shot off here, others here realize the potential disaster scenario included with LETTING these dealers in with their shipments that will poison OUR country for the next 20 years. And when you have a president that has just allocated forces somewhere else while there is literally an INVASION of DRUG DEALERS (put ethnicity or nationality to the side), you're going to say these people SHOULDN'T take up arms? I'm no promoter of war, but if I smash your foot on the ground, and claim that area as my own, im sure you'll smash my foot back in the least.

In late December 2008, three members of the National Socialist Movement's (NSM) Southern California unit patrolled the U.S./Mexican border. In addition to displaying a flag bearing a swastika and taking photographs, the group boasted about being “armed up” in preparation for the operation. NSM continually exploits the immigration issue as an opportunity for recruitment; a January 2009 newsletter put out by its New York unit featured an article about the border watch operation, stating “If you are an Aryan and worried about your children's future and the future of America, and you live within reach of the Southern California border and you wish you join the fight then get in touch. Your country needs you now.”

This is just propaganda IMO.

Just a good way to increase membership.

They're looking for a few good haters.

Look like they might have found some on this site.

Originally posted by Echtelion
WTF...?

They've got a damn National-Socialist group in Arizona, vowing to commit mass murders of Mexican immigrants just because they are without a status (so where most of your descendants when they arrived on this land), and you've got all these ATS members telling them "godspeed"!? Getting manipulated by the nearest neo-Nazi, White-supremacist barker, out of their discontent for their government, so they will shoot ordinary PEOPLE who have absolutely no political power?

You people obviously don't know your history...

AGAINST WHO YOUR GRANDPARENTS FOUGHT AGAINST IN THE '40s??? Against the nasty commie-liberal-three-huggers-hippies that keep borders open? No. It was against these people who've been manipulated out of their resentment by some sick, sociopathic politicians who made them do crimes against humanity and support a fascist dictatorship!!! IT WAS AGAINST A NATIONAL-SOCIALIST MOVEMENT, YOU DIMWITS!!!

NAZI stands for "NAtionalsoZIalismus" in German, which translates to "National-Socialism" in American English. Do you need a drawing for that, or something?

So now you gonna accuse Obama of being the new Hitler, while at the same time you are supporting the same GENOCIDAL and xenophobic policies than Hitler, as well as repression of gays, leftists and whoever doesn't legally fit in your "New Republic"???


HELLOOO??? Time to wake up from your psychosis before it's too late!

Wanna fight the real political enemy that's a threat to American civil liberties and the Constitution?

Fight fascism!


[edit on 18/6/10 by Echtelion]

History repeats itself. White men were met with curiosity and kindness upon first setting foot in America. Now in modern times, we have allowed plenty of immigration, legal and illegal. What happened next to the natives? They soon realized the violence and conquering of the white men, so they started fighting back. That's what we are doing now, to the drug traffickers.

The big difference is, white men overpowered the natives with superior technology and organized military discipline. The game is totally different now. We aren't only protected our land from foreign invaders as the natives were, we are protecting our children from drugs as well. Not to mention the political battle being waged and the effects of these confrontations on the political scene. We are seeing a little repeat of the conquering of the United States. Except the "natives" are American citizens and the "conquerors" are drug traffickers, smugglers and vermin.

Originally posted by Vitchilo


People are sick of living in fear. People are sick of the government doing nothing. People are sick of drug dealers destroying their state/country/city.

They have balls, they are armed, and they're coming for the scum drugs cartels.

I wish them good luck... and I hope they know what they are getting into.

Those gangs are nuts. They cut off heads, they kill your family, they are armed to the teeth, they have body armor... this is not a joke, this is real war...

So good luck to them, and I hope they know what they are doing.

Now the countdown till the feds arrest them for murder or whatever just started. Like the feds are gonna protect the border or allow citizen to do it... NO MISTER.

www.abc15.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Good luck to them !!
You gotta give them credit. They are defending their country as stated...from all enemies foreign and domestic.

I wish the government would allow our special forces to go in and shut down these cartels. Imagine a drug lord thinking he was impervious from attack then suddenly from 1.5 miles, a US sniper strikes. I guess that would be too much to ask for though

Originally posted by ziggyproductions05
For those of you thinking the Mexican Drug Cartel has the persona of Tony Montana and has no weapon (combat) training is sorely mistaken. A lot of these guerillas are from the Mexican army and are there soley for saftey of the drugs and transporters. These arent some nickel and dime drug dealers with a .22 hand gun.

Wow, that impresses me, the Mexican ARMY!!!!! ooooohhhh, definitely puts things into perspective. lol.

A lot of Marines and us soldiers joined our military for the sole purpose of learning combat and then joined these militia groups etc....

I'll put our militias against some cartels any day of the week.

The cartels have survived on superior fire power, supression through intimidation and fear, and having no conscience. It's time we showed them, that we are capable of the same and that we will not back down to them.

We have the superior firepower if we stand together.

I saw a post where it was stated that these guys are going to kill illegal immigrants...lol...

That's not what they are talking about at all. They are talking about taking out an entrenched drug cartel with limited numbers and a logistically unsupportable position.

You could box them in with fifty or a hundred guys with Ar's and replenishable rounds until they ran out of ammo.

That's no where near to what some of these groups are capable of bringing to bear though....

Sure there will be casualties, but nothing compared to what will eventuially happen if we do nothing.

I don't want Nazi's doing it, because it calls to question their motivations, but if they are the only one's with the balls to step up to the plate, then batter up, and they better hope that they stop at what they are constitutionally able to do and to not turn it on the legal citizenry, or we will have a multifront civil war on our hands.

My wife is Mexican from Mexico. Lived her whole life in mexico until we were married and she agrees with the law in Arizona along with her cousin who lives in Arizona, (we live in Cali) She hates that illegals come here and get so much when she had to fight and sacrifice and work her ass off and gets nothing that we don't work for.

Jaden

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by endtimer

Originally posted by Annee
Oh Great! I get to see this viginlante group walking around town again.

Its like living in a time-warp. I expect Wyatt Earp to have a shoot out on main street any day now.

At least they don't wear hoods.

This is off topic I know, but I have to ask you if you just automatically
think that militia groups wear hoods as you alluded to? Hoods are
worn by the KKK and no one else. Militias usually don't want anything
to do with the KKK. Bad image, don't you think? The guys that wear
the hoods wouldn't have the almonds to go d

Where exactly did I say or even allude to them wearing hoods? Of course only the KKK wore hoods - - to hide their identity.

These militia guys & gals - - want their identities know - - their ego demands it. They're "true" Americans - - loud and proud - - saving our country.

Buttons are going to be pushed - - and they are going react like full fledged vigilantes.

And with your two posts here we can already see where you stand on this issue. NS or not, you'd still be against anyone protecting the southern border.

Doesn't matter what your political leanings are, any nation that does not defend it's borders from invasion will cease to be. Defend the culture, the language and the border, it's the only way that America will survive.

I personally don't care if they are National Socialists. To me their mission isn't about some Brown skin hunting, it's about protecting the nation they are citizens of. Living near the border, you hear all the reports about the Cartels, Mexican Army etc... all coming over here and creating violence.. It's insane and people need to do something about this. If not, why stop at letting them overrun the border? Why not annex Mexico and let that all come to your home town? I bet when the drug cartels are kidnapping people from the streets of NYC, Cincinatti etc.. etc.. north of the border states and southwest you'll be hearing the clamor of "defend the border" more than what is being heard from us so called "fringe element."

Just to make it clear, these people are National Socialists the SAME NAME of the party that took Germany over in the 30's, nicknamed Nazi's.

Although I agree that something needs to be done with the border, I wish it wasn't the National Socialists doing so, because all the media is going to do is show them as racist "right" wingers (even though technically socialist is left...) and further divide our nation politically. Truth is we cannot ignore our southern border something has to be done with the drug cartels.

Originally posted by truthseeker84
Oh boy... vigilantes...

Reminds me of:

"What gives you the right??? Whats the diffrence between you and me?" - Brian dougles (Copycat batman)

"I'm not wearing hockey masks!" - The Dark Knight

He said Hockey Pads, not masks.