US Warns It Cannot Guard Arizona Section of Border

reply to post by Y2Zgt


Y2Zgt,

I have had problems with you in the past. You make absurd counter arguments.

Your arguments are almost as absurd as calling someone like Whatukno who is a Writer/fighter and member on ATS since 06 a troll. Not quite as absurd but close.

Originally posted by Izarith
reply to post by Y2Zgt

 

Y2Zgt,

I have had problems with you in the past. You make absurd counter arguments.

Your arguments are almost as absurd as calling someone like Whatukno who is a Writer/fighter and member on ATS since 06 a troll. Not quite as absurd but close.

I know, that's like someone who has 12 posts trying to explain to me how stuff "really" works on this site.

Never understood it.

Guess some people need a sense of self-importance to get them through the day.

Cheers!

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by brainwrek

 

Oh I see, so you want Obama impeached for something that Congress is supposed to do, is that right?

So what about Reagan, Bush the Elder, Clinton, W? Did they need to be impeached for this "Evil invasion of migrantfarm workers "?

You need corrected. They are not just farm workers anymore. They take most fast food jobs, hotel, construction and now the mechanics are looking behind them. They work for lower wages and before you know it the citizens can't find a job.
During the 80s a roofer was paid $20/square for affixing your basic 3 tab shingles. 30 years later that is still the pay because the job is now done almost exclusively by illegals.
A few years back my cousin applied to be a foreman with a roofing company. He has a contractors license. He couldn't speak spanish so he wasn't qualified. 50k/year job. Basic roofer 30k+.

No sir not farm workers. Yes they do take jobs away from Americans. Oh and do you think that a new roof cost the same as it did 30 years ago even though labor rates are the same? No way.

I say illegals go home. America's jobs for Americans!

reply to post by mf_luder


While it may not be true in this case, I have seen brilliant people post here who have only been on this site for days. So, it's not really the time put in, it's the effort produced.

But on this subject, I can show you why this is really a race issue, and not as these people claim an issue about broken borders.

Does anyone ever complain about Canadian illegal immigrants?

Would you know a Canadian illegal immigrant if you saw one?

If this is really a broken border issue, why isn't there just as much vitriol coming from the states on our northern boarder?

I can tell you, most Canadians speak English. They are Caucasian, while on the other hand, on our southern border, we have brown people, who don't generally speak English. That is the crux of the problem these people have.

They are scared that white people are going to be run out of communities and be replaced by brown people.

They term this fear "White Flight" Caucasians fear that they have been driven out of the cities by African-Americans, now they fear they are being driven out of the suburbs by Hispanics. This fear of course is racial bull [snip] and is only propagated by bigots. The reality is, there is no reason for this fear except for plain old bigotry.

That's all this Arizona law is, granted, there is the problem with the drug cartels and the violence that goes along with this, but this is nothing new to America, in Chicago, you had the Italian gangs that were just as violent, in many major cities, you had gangs that are just as violent. But you don't see vigilante groups going after these people. The reason? Well, illegal immigrant farm workers aren't armed, and they speak English. This is going after the poor, and the weak. It's a cowardly move really. Overall, these people are coming here for a better life. But groups like the minutemen and other vigilantes want to take that American dream away from these people with no hope.

reply to post by awakentired

You need corrected. They are not just farm workers anymore. They take most fast food jobs, hotel, construction and now the mechanics are looking behind them. They work for lower wages and before you know it the citizens can't find a job.
During the 80s a roofer was paid $20/square for affixing your basic 3 tab shingles. 30 years later that is still the pay because the job is now done almost exclusively by illegals.
A few years back my cousin applied to be a foreman with a roofing company. He has a contractors license. He couldn't speak spanish so he wasn't qualified. 50k/year job. Basic roofer 30k+.

Ok so here is another problem with America, so Americans don't want to be competitive with the rest of the world, they won't take a lower paying job. But the demand for that service is still there, so companies have to do something, you can't afford to pay for a legal worker, so you pay for an illegal.

Pricing yourself out of a job isn't the problem of illegals, it's the problem of the American worker.

reply to post by whatukno


Illegal aliens from canada arent pouring across the border from Canada by the millions.

That argument is an utter failure.

It isnt about race.

Its about defending the border and upholding the law.

As for your claim that there is no basis for white flight other than bigotry, how about higher crime rates? Lower property values?

The race card is the last bastion of a fool. It only comes out when no other argument or refutation of fact is available.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by brainwrek]

Originally posted by whatukno
Shesh Oh PETE! I can't believe I am reading this Nazi crap!

Landmines at the boarder, automatic gun turrets, electrifying the Rio Grande!

Y'all might want to commit genocide, but I DON'T!

What is WRONG with you all?

You just compared arming borders to genocide, not to mention labeling it as nazi crap (yeah, that's what the nazis were known for, arming borders, not nearly killing off an entire race of people and others). I really do hope you were joking in that post (airspoon already established he was joking in his post after editing).

[edit on 18-6-2010 by technical difficulties]

reply to post by technical difficulties


Oh so when the minutemen talk about work camps and shooting Mexicans on sight it's just a joke right?

All funny ha ha, yes I bet it was real funny when a leader of the minutemen militia (Shawna Forde) stormed a house and gunned down a Mexican father and his 8 year old daughter.

I bet that was a laugh riot!



[edit on 6/18/2010 by whatukno]

Originally posted by guavas
Now, looking at a geographical map of America, say on a school's globe or wall map or something. What is your opinion:

A) America should have little lines outlining it on a map
B) America should not have little lines outlining it on a map

What do you think should be done today in order to support your choice, be it either A, B, or a combination of the two?

The reason why I ask, is because I believe (not that anyone cares) that either:

A) America enforces said borders
= OR =
B) America erases said borders
= AND EITHER WAY =
C) Behaves consistently in accordance to either choice.

I believe that the final goal is the NAU. Much like the EU every country still has it's dotted outline. Come to think of it it's just like the present day US. Every state has it's border but they don't control or keep other members if the union out.

There are strong feelings on either side of the forming of the NAU. I don't care one way or the other. I have read too many posts where people say things like "what we should do is..." or they tell illegals (as if they are actually reading ATS) "get out now!".

Whatever we may feel or whatever solution to the problem that we can come up with is moot given our lack of power. Sure write/call/text/e-mail your representatives give them an ear full and then watch as they trod along on their parties agenda.

Protest? Fine there are protesters on both sides. One side always goes home sad and in the past it has always been the anti-immigration protesters.

But, Americans are fighters they will not just sit idly by while their country is morphed into something else.

If they do this great. When I see it I'll believe it and if it doesn't happen that's fine also.

Originally posted by name pending
reply to post by airspoon

 

You know what it's laughable, if Obama deploys soldiers these same people would be screaming to the top of their lungs that army is deployed against US citizens. They will say Obama turned USA into police state and blah blah.

LOL, so true. It doesn't matter what Obama does he's pretty much wrong in the eyes of the Republicans. Wake up people the bill past in AZ is the true enacting of a police state.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Getreadyalready- you seem to have an excellent grasp of the situation. Congratulations. Seems that more and more AMERICANS, are FINALLY waking-up! (I LOVE this website!!)
Airspoon- cudos to you, friend!! I totally agree- we COULD defend, OUR border. TPTB, just choose not to. For THEIR OWN, EVIL purposes. Certainly, NOT for OUR good!
TREASON, TREASON, TREASON!!!!! We are AT WAR! The penalty for TREASON, is DEATH BY HANGING. Period, end of story- NOTHING less, will do. I have a 1200' spool, of military surplus rope, that I'll donate.
I am willing, to go, and guard that streach of border. I have friends, also. Stationed 1/2 mile apart, we could stop ALL illegal traffic, no problem. But- FEDGOV, can't. Well- THAT is either TREASON, or malfesance. Either way, we need a change of government, NOW!

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by technical difficulties

 

Oh so when the minutemen talk about work camps and shooting Mexicans on sight it's just a joke right?

All funny ha ha, yes I bet it was real funny when a leader of the minutemen militia (Shawna Forde) stormed a house and gunned down a Mexican father and his 8 year old daughter.

I bet that was a laugh riot!



[edit on 6/18/2010 by whatukno]

You seem to imply that she murdered these people and then you seem to imply that she did this over race or in acting according to the Minutemen org. First of all, she wasn't the shooter, it was only alleged that she planned a robbery. Secondly, one of the alleged perps was Mexican himself. Third, she was not acting in accordance with the Minutemen. Last but certainly not least, all of this is alleged.

You are grasping for straws here and it is clearly the only example that you can come up with. If you are a Christian, could I assume that you are a child molester, simply because a Christian somewhere has allegedly molested a child? That is absurd and to make any connection between the MM and the incident that took place is only grasping for straws to project your obvious agenda.

--airspoon

reply to post by Antoniastar



Hi Antoniastar, the more you watch obama, the more you can see in his face that he didn't have a clue what he was getting into or has gotten into when he got elected. He just seems to be going through the motions an trying to treat this like some collage experiment to see what happens if he pulles this string or that string.
As for this latest fumble on the Arizona border? No, it wasn't obama's doing. You'd have to go back through ALL the Presidents before him, because ALL are to blame for the problems we have now. But with that in mind, obama needs to put his on big boy shoes because like it or not the mess is his now. He could almost be a hero (not me, he's got a long ways to go before I have any respect for him) if he'd do one thing right and build and man the border fence/wall, cut the illegals off.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by Chance321]

Originally posted by brainwrek

As for your claim that there is no basis for white flight other than bigotry, how about higher crime rates? Lower property values?

The race card is the last bastion of a fool. It only comes out when no other argument or refutation of fact is available.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by brainwrek]

From all I've read the crime rates of all the border states are actually lower then the national average.

amanwithaphd.wordpress.com...

reply to post by whatukno

you can't afford to pay for a legal worker, so you pay for an illegal.

Yeah, in other words, you are all for slavery, and have no problem abusing the rights of others in order to get what you want.

Clearly, you also do not believe in market systems and the laws of supply and demand. You choose to bypass the markets by breaking the laws, and stealing.

Of course you first play the racism card, as per typical propaganda. Lying cheating and stealing is clearly your way of life.

How is it that thirty years ago U.S. workers did all these jobs now taken over by illegals, and did them far better? More money in the hands of workers, means more money in the hands of consumers, and enables a far stronger and far more healthy economy.

The reason Mexico's economy is so bad is because of corruption and the absence of law enforcement and the protection of individual rights. I have no desire in to like people live in Mexico.

Not that you have any concern for the truth.

Originally posted by Procession101

Originally posted by brainwrek

As for your claim that there is no basis for white flight other than bigotry, how about higher crime rates? Lower property values?

The race card is the last bastion of a fool. It only comes out when no other argument or refutation of fact is available.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by brainwrek]

From all I've read the crime rates of all the border states are actually lower then the national average.

amanwithaphd.wordpress.com...

I beg to differ.

I work frequently at refineries down south, and Houston and Phoenix are some of the nastiest, crime ridden cities there are. Phoenix in particular is becoming atrocious, as opposed to say, 15 years ago.

And although not technically a border state, I've just ome back from a 4 week job at a BASF factory on the outskirts of New Orleans. Crime there is still ridiculous.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by Darkrunner]

Crime Rates are a farce in general. Do not give them any credibility. For one, it is only "Felony Arrests" that are reported to the FBI. Many, many times someone is picked up for a lesser crime in order to be questioned and then later the charges are amended. In the worst cases, this tactic is ordered ahead of time in order to lower the crime rate reported.

I live in a College Town (FSU), and the official reports are less than 10 sexaul assaults per year. For people that work in the field, on campus, or off campus, and for the people that counsel or provide help, the actual numbers are about 100x that! It isn't good marketing if your Univerity town has a high assault rate, so it isn't reported. The numbers are "fudged."

The same thing goes for major events like Mardi Gras in New Orleans, and New Year's Eve in Times Square. They don't make any felony arrests during those events, because they want to report low crime rates and bring back more tourists the next year. Someone caught raping or robbing or killing may be picked up on a lesser charge, held a little while, and then the prosecutor later amends the charge to a more serious one.

Ignore the Crime Rates, trust your experience or gut feelings.

reply to post by Procession101


I don't know anything about that website, but they throw around a bunch of numbers that they refuse to tie together, because when they do, those numbers prove them wrong.

Here is a website that gives more accurate numbers.

www.walletpop.com...

How is it that Arizona rates as the eighth most dangerous state while it has two cities as among most safe?

Nevada is the state with the highest percentage of illegal workers, and is rates as the most dangerous state.

www.lasvegassun.com...

Nevada tops the nation when it comes to the percentage of illegal immigrants in the workforce, according to a report issued today by the Pew Hispanic Center.

And here is another ignored fact from the same link.

Young black males who are entering into the job are the biggest group that is damaged by illegals taking jobs like in the construction industry.

Who are the real racists?

Look at all the pro illegal immigration people attempting to derail this thread.

Do you people have a life? Stop trying to derail threads because you disagree with a political ideal. You look extremely foolish and quite frankly show your intelligence.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by Gakus]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by technical difficulties

 

Oh so when the minutemen talk about work camps and shooting Mexicans on sight it's just a joke right?

All funny ha ha, yes I bet it was real funny when a leader of the minutemen militia (Shawna Forde) stormed a house and gunned down a Mexican father and his 8 year old daughter.

I bet that was a laugh riot!



[edit on 6/18/2010 by whatukno]

So you're comparing arming borders to genocide because a few people in support of such thing made stupid decisions? I really do hope you're not basing your compelling argument of "people in opposition of illegal immigration are racists" (as far as I know, that's what you actually believe. I have yet to see a post of yours saying otherwise) based on what a few people did, because if you are, then that is pretty weak, even moreso than playing the race card to begin with. I'm pretty sure you can find an actual argument in favor of illegal immigration. It shouldn't be that hard.