Chemtrailers are People, Too.

reply to post by GobbledokTChipeater

LOL I don't believe this thread hasn't been closed yet. What a circus it has turned out to be!

I thought courtesy was mandatory

First, we have people blatently attacking people who believe something, right down to suggesting they are all mentally ill:

Originally posted by Chadwickus
There are a whole lot more charlatans and hoaxers out there targeting mentally ill people than there are debunkers doing it.
I will agree though, it is low to take advantage of them or support their delusions...

All of this is bad practice for a discussion forum guys and just goes to show what your real argument is :shk:

You're bright aren't ya.

I can't speak for the others but no where did I call ANYONE Mentally ill.

I actually was stating that anyone taking advantage of mentally ill people are lowlifes.

You know what else is bad practice for a discussion forum?

Making up lies by putting words into other peoples mouths.

reply to post by GobbledokTChipeater


Feel better now?

Actually...the reason this topic deserves so much derision (it seems to me) is, the use of logic and science in efforts to educate some "true believers" hasn't gotten through, apparently.

Maybe 'riling them up' will?

Just as it is important to point out obvious hoaxes when they are foisted on people ( I'm talking about you Sacha Faal and Alison Kruse!! --- to name only two...).

Of course, on THIS subject, must add (and name) the "grandaddy' of 'em in the stupidest of "chemtrail" claims; and that would be "Cliff Carnicorn".

It is really quite simple: Those who have been taken in by these "chemtrail" claims are being taken for a ride. Fooled. Punked.

Normally, all other things being equal, it is perfectly fine for someone to spend their money, or expend their energy on futile things ( I'm talking to YOU, "American Idol"! ) but, when such bad, bad 'junk-' and 'pseudo-'science as "chemtrails" continues to be spouted, there comes a point when enough is enough.

People sometimes have to be protected from themselves...
( And, yes...I'm talking to YOU, "Scientology"! )

Sanity, logic and reason should triumph in the face of superstition and ignorance.





[edit on 15 June 2010 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by Pryde87

Instead of getting all touchy, why dont you supply some sort of evidence to support the chemtrailers claims?

LOL I'm not getting touchy

The only thing I have claimed is that people should have an open mind. That is self evident to the thinker and requires no proof.

But having an open mind, should not include believing absolutely everything that one is told. One can have an open mind and still maintain a level of sensible critical thinking.

Originally posted by Exuberant1

I suppose that with all the envirocultist propaganda and indoctrination that goes on nowadays that there is probably also a large number of people from the "Humans are a bad cancer virus on the earth" crowd which are currently serving and who could potentially be called upon to 'help heal their mother' or some other such nonsense. There are some of those types who might go along with anything so long as they are told is either going help the earth or hurt people (earth's evil cancer... or something)

Well, if there really are people involved in spraying the Earth's population with chemichals in order to get rid of them (or at least a large portion of them), when are the evil people behind this plan going to realize that their efforts ARE NOT WORKING?

Just imagine it, planes criss crossing the skies day after day, spraying chemichals year after year, decade after decade, the costs of such an operation must be gigantic. And yet, there is not one single death anywhere in the world which has been proven to be caused by chemtrail poisining.

NOT A SINGLE ONE.

Instead, people actually live longer than ever before:

Americans are living nearly two-and-a-half months longer, according to new life expectancy statistics released today. In 2007, life expectancy in the United States reached a high of nearly 78 years, up from 77.7 a year earlier.
Americans are living nearly two-and-a-half months longer, according to new life expectancy statistics released today. In 2007, life expectancy in the United States reached a high of nearly 78 years, up from 77.7 a year earlier.

Life expectancy in the United States has been on the rise for a decade, increasing 1.4 years — from 76.5 years in 1997 to 77.9 in 2007, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The life expectancy data, compiled by the agency’s National Center for Health Statistics, are based on nearly 90 percent of the death certificates filed in the United States.

well.blogs.nytimes.com...

We see the same in UK:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dbbb651e40b0.jpg[/atsimg]
www.statistics.gov.uk...

The evil group behind the "chemtrails", whether they are the Illuminati/NWO/reptilians or whatever, must be the richest AND the dumbest people in the universe. You should think these numbnuts would have come up with a much better plan than using "chemtrails" to kill people by now, wouldn't you?

reply to post by ziggystar60


Ziggy, don't resort to strawmen tactics.

You are better than that.

*In this case your strawman would be based on the notion that chemtrails are somehow meant to kill us.

Originally posted by Exuberant1

*In this case your strawman would be based on the notion that chemtrails are somehow meant to kill us.

If you browse websites and blogs about these supposed chemtrails, you will find a lot of paranoid people who think the NWO/Illuminati wants to get rid of a large portion of the Earth's population.

But OK, if they are not meant to kill people, you tell me then, what are the "chemtrails" supposed to achieve? Just make people sick? Give them a rash? Alter their minds? Change their hair color? Make their teeth fall out? What?

Please show me where I can find evidence of "chemtrails" actually doing anything at all to people's health, bodies or minds. Thank you in advance.

reply to post by ziggystar60


Geoengineering -- Global Weather Modification.

IF there are dispersants being used to mitigate the effects of global warming, then a consequence MAY be various heavy metals being introduced into the environment, and subsequently, into our air, water, soil, and food.

Interestingly, the rise in reporting of "chemtrails" coincides with the last decade in which proponents against AWG claim as evidence, seeing as the temperatures of the earth apparently hasn't changed much. Is there a connection between the two?!

[edit on 15-6-2010 by unityemissions]

reply to post by unityemissions


I have read your post numerous times but have no idea what point you are trying to make?

Do you mean that chemtrails are responsible for a stable climate?

reply to post by unityemissions


I think the type of "spraying"....that has been CONFIRMED is what we've seen happening in the Gulf of Mexico. (AND, of course, in every example of crop dusting you wish to bring up....)

Where the cognitive disconnect occurs is in the notion of some sort of sustained, nefarious (or otherwise) and ongoing "spraying" at very, very high altitudes...the exact altitudes where most jets cruise.

It is simply outlandish, and physically impractical to be occuring in the way that the disparate "chemtrail" claimants suggest.

Pay notice to the AREA of coverage, in reference to the "Corexit" (or whatever the name is of the oil 'dispersant' being used in the GoM) and the AREA of size for the average crop dusting operation...then, compare to the SIZE (and scale it up, in your mind's eye) to be able to accomplish what is claimed...by the likes of "Carnicorn", et al.

It is simply not possible, with known aviation technology. NOT in the incredibly 'huge' scales claimed.

Continued "belief" in this requires a leap of 'faith' that defies logic and reason.

reply to post by Pryde87


Sorry, I just woke up and tend to have difficulties properly communicating in the mornings before breakfast.

First off, people need to have an understanding of what a chemtrails may be. When people hear this term, they often think things like, "this is just crazy" , and "this MUST be the depopulation gang" , and other irrational oddities.

Chemtrails in it's most broadest sense is merely the dispersant of chemicals which make trails in the skies. It doesn't have to be related to an agenda to depopulate, or an agenda to oppress the people.

Okay, now that this is understood: My point was not that these supposed chemtrails may be used to stabilize the climate. Once again, we must be careful with our words (and I'm sort of a hypocrite here seeing as my above post is a bit jumbled, so my bad!) . I propose the possibility that chemtrails are, at least in part, a form of geoengineering that seeks to stabilize atmospheric temperatures across the globe. Climate is much more inclusive than this.


Please let me know if this made sense to you. I'm just now eating my morning oatmeal.

Thanks.



[edit on 15-6-2010 by unityemissions]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Really now? Because to my understanding, plans are officially being drawn up to start such very geoengineering strategies! How, then, would this be technologically unfeasible if the experts are seriously entertaining the notion? THAT seems illogical.

Also note that black-ops projects are generally several years ahead of the public sector.

Thank you.

reply to post by unityemissions


"Plans", or better....ideas....are being bandied about.

What is important to pay attention to, though...is, as I've said...the SCALE.

IF amd WHEN such efforts are actually implemented, it will be very, very obvious, and will have widespread press coverage.

WHAT is happening today, however, in these "chemtrail" claims is nothing more than the mistaking of normal, everyday contrails for something else.

Contrails are a byproduct of technological convenience, which is modern air travel. AS A RESULT, the addition of contrails, produced artificially by jet activity, do contribute above and beyond (pun) the normally-occuring numbers of cirro-form clouds that otherwise would exist.

In that way, WE are affecting the earth's climate, if only unintentionally/haphazardly. Just another form of 'pollution', but not 'targeted' in any defined manner.

The actual amount of difference in Earth's climate our activities are making is still open for debate...which is WHY climate change, and options involving that field, are such important topics of study nowadays...

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by unityemissions

 

"Plans", or better....ideas....are being bandied about.

What is important to pay attention to, though...is, as I've said...the SCALE.

IF amd WHEN such efforts are actually implemented, it will be very, very obvious, and will have widespread press coverage.

And you would know this how? Ever heard of desensitization? To implement a full-scale 24/7/365 operation all at once would be noticeable, but to slowly ramp it up...the majority may not notice, and perhaps put it off to increased air-traffic due to population increases. Much like the skeptics say today. How convenient, eh?

I recall around 2001, that air traffic had recently increased quite a bit. I specifically remember mentioning this to a friend saying, "You know there's a lot more trails and planes in the sky than I recall just a few years ago". This was years before I'd heard of the concept of chemtrails. This could be written of as the reasoning posted above, but I prefer to remain open-minded.

WHAT is happening today, however, in these "chemtrail" claims is nothing more than the mistaking of normal, everyday contrails for something else.

Okay, I'll just take your word for it.

reply to post by stars15k

The "potential of clandestine spraying"? What an open ended statement that is. There is potential for pretty much anything, but it does not mean it is happening. Science doesn't need to prove planes are not spraying, you have to prove they are.

I said potential, because I didn't want to claim it as fact, surely, you must not have a problem with that.

I don't have to prove anything, I responded to this:

You need to step back and look at debunking. We are not ignorant, nor deluded. We believe the science involved. There is 70+ years of scientific study, from around the world and across disciplines that are easy to find. We all sound the same not because we are blind followers, but because the science involved has not changed. Good science, which is what debunkers wish others used, remains the same, test to test, study to study over the decades of science involved.

You claim that with the use of science, chemtrails have been debunked.

My question was how science can prove that certain planes aren't spraying certain chemicals.

Please, give me a scientific explanation of how science has shown that no plane out there is spraying chemicals.

reply to post by unityemissions


Yea I understand what you are saying now and that is one of the more believable reasons I have heard for chemtrails, however I dont understand why they would keep it a secret. Im sure there is research into whether modification but I dont think it would be on the scale that the chemtrailers believe.

Originally posted by GobbledokTChipeater

First, we have people blatently attacking people who believe something, right down to suggesting they are all mentally ill:

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Also, what have you to say about the people on this forum who reinforce the delusions of what may very well be a mentally ill person? What type of irresponsible person does that?

All of this is bad practice for a discussion forum guys and just goes to show what your real argument is :shk:

You took my quote completely out of context. I wasn't referring to any particular thread... but the entire ATS forum in general. It merely questions the morals of someone who may reinforce the beliefs of a delusional person.

Do you personally believe that someone who does that is morally bankrupt?

I certainly do!

If your going to quote people... get your sh*t correct!

IRM

reply to post by Point of No Return


There are planes spraying chemicals. Crop dusters for example. Just not on a global or even national scale, over populated areas, with a secret agenda.

The main focus of chemtrailers is contrails. They can be scientifically proven (and have been, look at Chadwickus' study) to not contain chemicals, other than your normal exhaust content.

reply to post by Pryde87


Why does the government keep any secrets at all? For "national security reasons" Which these days, seems to be more about the various elite keeping their chunk of the pie.

Let's suppose that GW is real. Let's also suppose that Big Business is a major part of the cause. IF BB does have control over our government to some large extent (pretty much a given) , then perhaps the reason for keeping this a secret is so that the phat cats can keep business as usual.

Yes, it's insane, but haven't we learned that these brilliant idiots have allowed their desire for greed and hubris to get the best of them? Haven't we learned that often times, the people who seek the highest positions of power are in fact without conscience?

It's not too far fetched . . .

[edit on 15-6-2010 by unityemissions]

reply to post by Pryde87


You know damn well what I meant, I'm not talking about crop dusters.

The main focus of chemtrailers is contrails. They can be scientifically proven (and have been, look at Chadwickus' study) to not contain chemicals, other than your normal exhaust content.

Yes contrails can be proven scientifically, my question was how science has proven that no planes at all are secretly releasing certain chemicals, since that was what the poster I responded to(not you) was claiming.

Please don't respond to me if you don't know what was actually said, and what the premise of my response to the other poster is.

Chad's study,

,

you mean the "study" of the exhausts of a mere 2 non-random planes, over 15 years ago?

That's very representative of all planes flying today. Not.