Chemtrailers are People, Too.

reply to post by Point of No Return


I do understand what you said and answered accordingly. Get off your high horse.

Once again you are resorting to the desperate tactic that chemtrailers use: trying to get science to prove a negative.

There is no evidence that planes are secretly spraying us with chemicals. This total lack of evidence, amounts in itself to evidence that they are not spraying.

It would be incredibly easy for even an amatuer scientist to monitor the content of the air around us at ground level. In fact, this is done everyday all over the world, for the purpose of monitoring polution. Now nobody, ever, in the whole world, has ever found evidence that planes are spraying nasties on us. There is your proof. Thats about as close as I can get to proving a negative.

reply to post by Point of No Return

Science does not have to prove that "chemtrails" exist, proponents of the theory have to prove they do.
Science provides a reasonable empirical explanation of any "chemtrail" picutre or video I've ever seen. (I'm guessing the same applies for all debunkers).
But this argument has been brought up on this same thread before. What part is hard to understand?

reply to post by Point of No Return


Glad you brought this up....

...my question was how science has proven that no planes at all are secretly releasing certain chemicals...

"certain" chemicals???

Doesn't matter, since the next bit will (hopefully) sink in.

Will any "chemtrail" believer argue that everything, even some 'nefarious' "certain" chemical, will have weight?

Gee....the "chemtrailers" have postulated all sorts of things, and think it's magically transported aloft, by airplanes...but they continually IGNORE the physics of flight, and energy required, to carry weight. Fuel used, burned off, to carry a payload.

Any pilot knows this, but laypeople never seem to think it through...

Just HOW MUCH "material" would be required, this super-secret 'something'? HOW is it distrubuted?

IF it is a powder, what medium is it transported in? (Hint: Unless you wish to cllaim that a powder will effortlessly flow, in some way, so as to be "sprayed"...you must posit some sort of medium, usually a fluid, to carry it).

Water? Well, that is pretty heavy, actually...weighs more than jet fuel. Jet-A is about (depending on temperature and density) 6.7 pounds per gallon. Water? About 7.5 pounds/gallon.

What other liquids could be used? Something else in the hydroicarbon family? Still, it has weight. Show me a liquid that doesn't.

NOW...in all of that vast, vast area of sky....HOW MUCH material would be required? What rate of "spray"....how many poinds per minute? What is the maximum capacity of the airplane, and how loing can it sustain such "spraying"?

How much FUEL is required (adds weight, remember) IN ADDITION TO hte 'payload' to be "sprayed"...

(BTW...as to carrying capacity of the airplane...not only weight, but VOLUME is a concern, too...)

I could go on, but this simple logic should suffice, for most. Try using this logic, though, on a devout "chemtrail" believer....

(BTW....for UE...I don't just speak out of my behind, on this. I do have a lifetime of experience in aviation to go with....)



[edit on 15 June 2010 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by Point of No Return
reply to post by stars15k

 

You need to step back and look at debunking. We are not ignorant, nor deluded. We believe the science involved. There is 70+ years of scientific study, from around the world and across disciplines that are easy to find. We all sound the same not because we are blind followers, but because the science involved has not changed. Good science, which is what debunkers wish others used, remains the same, test to test, study to study over the decades of science involved.

You claim that with the use of science, chemtrails have been debunked.

My question was how science can prove that certain planes aren't spraying certain chemicals.

Please, give me a scientific explanation of how science has shown that no plane out there is spraying chemicals.

You put words in my mouth there a bit. I did not say science debunked them, I said debunkers use science.
Science does not and cannot prove a negative. If claims are made about contrails being "chem-" the claimant needs to prove the positive.

You are just being obtuse and argumentative. This has been explained on this (and every) thread before. If you do not accept it fine, but our answer to you will remain the same.

[edit on 15-6-2010 by stars15k]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Here's video I made to counter similar claims made on YouTube. It was and still is that clouds themselves are somehow "chemclouds".
100% man-made, sprayed from a plane..........I knew better. I ran my math past all my professional friends who have the pilot, ATC, and aviation engineering background because I wanted to make sure I got the concept and the math correctly. They agreed.
While this specifically deals with clouds, but think of the coverage of many contrail condensed into one small area and you have a cloud.

[edit on 15-6-2010 by stars15k]

reply to post by stars15k

You put words in my mouth there a bit. I did not say science debunked them, I said debunkers use science. Science does not and cannot prove a negative. If claims are made about contrails being "chem-" the claimant needs to prove the positive.

Yes, you said they use science to debunk chemtrails, so my question still stands, what scientific method has debunked chemtrails?

I'm not making any claims that contrails are chemtrails.

You act like it's scientifically impossible that secret spraying programs exist, wich is false, off course.

There is no scientific method to establish this.

That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by illusions

 

Illusions said:
but you did not point out any specific evidence that you feel disproves chemtrails. Could you please clarify the points from the threads that you believe would help those who believe in chemtrails to change their stance?

Maybe...Maybe Not said:
I do not want to be too prescriptive, so I prefer members review the preponderance of rational & logical information therein, thereby comprehending that “chemtrails” do not exist.

In your OP you posted a list of threads discussing chemtrails...

I see that you really want to help others understand,

Unfortuneately, presenting a list of threads
in which members debate both for and against "chemtrails"
only proves that
there are those who believe and those who do not believe in "chemtrails"

if you could present scientific facts proving that "chemtrails" do not exist,
you could greatly help those who believe in "chemtrails".

It will be nice to see all the people you help,
once you present the facts for them!

reply to post by weedwhacker

...my question was how science has proven that no planes at all are secretly releasing certain chemicals...

This was my question to a post made by Stars.

I don't know why that prompted you to ask me a dozen questions about things I never made claims about.

reply to post by Point of No Return


Errrmmm....I believe your question has been well answered, by a mere video, showing ht math and physics.

Shame, really...I can talk (type, really) until my lips (fingertips) are blue...but in today's 'video' age, an assemblage of facts organized into an animated clip is much, much better...

I really find it stunning that an average layperson can look at a cloud, and NOT realize just how huge, vast such a thing is...back to that "scale" thingy, lack of physics knowledge and understanding, and overall lack of some other science understanding as well...

Yet these same people can see it RAIN, and not make the connection, in their minds, about the sheer VOLUME of liquid that can be suspended over their heads....THAT, my friends, is NATURE....

I personally don't think that there is anything sinister
going on in our skies... I noticed that over my part of
the UK, there were no con or chemtrails while the volcano
in Iceland was supposedly causing problems.

Would a world-saving program stop because folks below
would realise that it was the Governemts of the world that
were showering strange stuff around?

Would they jepordise their plans just because the TV would
show that some high-altitude jets could still get past the
vulcanised plumes?

All interesting questions and I'm glad you brought them up,
BIAD.

Why, thank you BIAD.

This subject saddens me greatly.

I want to believe that we are being sprayed for some hideous agenda so we can put a stop to it...

Unfortunately, persistent contrails are a natural phenomenon and the reason we see so many nowadays is because of the huge amount of airtraffic we suffer in this day in age.

I live in England and when the volcanic ash hit us, it was bliss! Clear skies, clear nights and no noise.

Personally I would travel by boat any day if it got rid of those damn persistent contrails.

reply to post by ziggystar60


Ziggystar60.....

Thank you for taking this broader approach to this issue.

You have shown there have been no broad negative life expectancy outcomes, representing those that would have occured if the "chemtrail attack" on the general population was real.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Wide-Eyes

When possible, I would always travel by train. The best vacation of my life was a train from Chicago to Salt Lake City and back, through the Rocky Mountains. Comfortable, good food, good company....a cruise without the water, gambling, or big stage shows.
My husband didn't understand why I wanted a trip really no where, so I went alone. Going to do it again this year, hubby in tow this time.
But......trains have quite the exhaust, too.

reply to post by stars15k


Omg, that video you made is so far off, it's ridiculous.

First of all, the clouds in the picture you use, are normal clouds, in a normal looking sky, nobody would claim that that sky and clouds were the result of chemtrails, at least noone here on ATS.

You claim to know the weight of one particular cloud because "the figure is figured by the senior scientist at an atmospheric research lab".

What lab and who was it?

You then go on to say that it would take 7 evergreen tankers dumping water to make a such a cloud.

Clouds aren't made of water, they're made of water vapor, so planes dumping water have absolutely nothing to do with it.

While this specifically deals with clouds, but think of the coverage of many contrail condensed into one small area and you have a cloud.

Here you are saying yourself that clouds actually form because of plane contrails.

I thought you said that it was virtually impossible for planes to create clouds in your own video.

I ran my math past all my professional friends who have the pilot, ATC, and aviation engineering background because I wanted to make sure I got the concept and the math correctly. They agreed.

Your math may be correct in that concept, but your concept itself is completely off, and ridiculous.

reply to post by Point of No Return


Please just get over it. Chemtrails are a product of too much internet, not enough sanity and general lack of hygiene.

CHEMTRAIL FAKTS!!!

uncyclopedia.wikia.com...

Chemtrails

“Santa and I love to have a cup of tea over the subject of world domination.”
~ Oscar Wilde on Santa Claus

The flag of The Duchy of the Arctic Circle features the fearsome, all-seeing visage of Santa, and adds to fears of Santa's quest to world dominationChemtrails (Straker Puppa in Italian) are mysterious trails left in the sky, and conspiracy theorists often use it as evidence that Santa is attempting to again take over the world. These floating phenomena are similar to air craft contrails, but normally linger for longer and are arranged in elaborate high-altitude constellations in the sky.

These trails are thought to be left by 3 of Santa's Reindeers, specifically Cupid, Vixen and Comet(disputed).

Chemtrail Theory
Held by many in the Bush administration as one of the most credible threats to humanity, it is thought these trails contain mind control ingredients causing many to purchase vast amounts of gifts and other commercial goods to bestow upon family and friends around December 25th.

It is also considered by scientists that young children are more susceptible to chemtrails than adults, who often rebuff claims that Santa actually exsists.

On ground and at lower altitudes, the products of these Chemtrail's are known as Snow. Extensive studying shows that many who are exposed to snow adopt strange behaviour (known in the medical world as "Festive Spirit"). This condition also propagates the aquistion of gifts at retail stores.

Threat Mitigation

Attempts to clear snow by governments authorities in Luzerne Avenue, Baltimore, but clearly victims are already affected.The Bush administration is one of the only governments in the world who are acting to stomp out this warring act. Thankfully, by refusing the sign up to the Kyoto treaty, they have ensured the demise of Polar ice caps, which will evidently reduce greatly the territory of Santa.

Similarly, authorities affected by Snow worldwide employ mechanical snow-ploughs to remove Snow from roads, but, as illustrated by the image on the right, this method is failing.




[edit on 16-6-2010 by zaiger]

reply to post by Point of No Return


That was one of the most ignorant posts I have ever read on ATS. You clearly have no idea what a cloud is, never mind a contrail.

reply to post by Pryde87


Jeah, ok, clouds form out of water vapor, the are liquid, but it doesn't equate to dumping water out of a plane.

Just to make clear, I'm not saying they are spraying chemicals to kill the population or something.

I can see with my own eyes that some weather modification program might be going on.

It often looks like they are seeding clouds, not even clouds, more of a haze covering a big part of the sky.

You can see them leaving trails in grids and a few hours later it's all hazed up for the rest of the day.

It's not normal. It become even more apperent with the flight ban in Europe due to the Iceland volcano.

Blue skies we hadn't seen for a long time. It's not just a coincedence.

A lot of people were talking about it here.

Normally on days with clear weather, planes are creating a haze that would not form without them, at least from what I'm seeing here.

... It's not normal. It become even more apperent with the flight ban
in Europe due to the Iceland volcano...
... Blue skies we hadn't seen for a long time. It's not just a coincedence...
...A lot of people were talking about it here...

Here in Europe, it was more apparent that there were no tracks
in the skies... there were no aeroplanes allowed to fly!
Sounds normal.

In Europe, we rarely get blue skies... but there's a blue sky out there
as I type... and oddly enough, no plane tracks.

Over the 30 years that I've known of these beliefs, not one person
I have met believes them to be real.

I'm pondering whether it's only the US Government poisoning it's
people.