America's ALWAYS tried to do down Britain

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by catwhoknows

 

The Uk isn't playing against the USA in the world cup.

In fact, the UK doesn't have a team in the world cup at all.

Yep last time i checked it was England vs the USA.

But i'll forgive you. This once.

reply to post by stumason


My son, a huge soccer fan, told me they are playing against each other.

What can I say - I don't know.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by stumason
Thing is, what about the two US companies who were the ones in actual operatinal control of the rig, namely Transocean and Halliburton?

They were overridden by the high level BP rep that was sent out to the rig on that day:

Rig survivors: BP ordered shortcut on day of blast
(CNN) -- The morning the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded, a BP executive and a Transocean official argued over how to proceed with the drilling, rig survivors told CNN's Anderson Cooper in an exclusive interview.
The survivors' account paints perhaps the most detailed picture yet of what happened on the deepwater rig -- and the possible causes of the April 20 explosion.

The BP official wanted workers to replace heavy mud, used to keep the well's pressure down, with lighter seawater to help speed a process that was costing an estimated $750,000 a day and was already running five weeks late, rig survivors told CNN.

BP won the argument, said Doug Brown, the rig's chief mechanic. "He basically said, 'Well, this is how it's gonna be.' "

Don't you feel tho, any "professional" is responsible for the job they do? i.e when told to do something stupid/dangerous by a suit they have the professional responsibility to tell them to, as Americans say STFU and not carry out said stupid/dangerous task?

That's part of my role, and my responsibility to tell the suits when they are wrong, and stick by my guns when I know I am right, especially when the suggestion/demands are both stupid and dangerous, and if I completed said task, I would also be viewed as most culpable since I should know better...

reply to post by mr-lizard


Hey, that was not me who said that.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Hey, that was not me who said that.

No worries. But tell your son, it's ENGLAND vs USA.

The UK consists of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Island.

The UK doesn't have a football team, but each of these countries in the UK do. Although not all of them are qualified for the world cup

reply to post by catwhoknows


As Lizard said, that would be England not the UK. A common mistake made by our American friends, just don't let a Scot here you make that mistake, they can be quite unforgiving.

reply to post by stumason


You are a proud Englishman, and you don't know that England is playing the US?

Proud or what?
And, btw, I don't appreciate being "corrected" by you when you are in the wrong.

People jump on Obama's back like it's his fault. Let me sarcastically tell you how Obama thinks about this situation.

"Oil spill, eh?"
"Milk it out. I want tar on beaches, dead sea turtles, loss of tourism, another kick in our economies groin."
"Then I'll say British Petroleum, instead of BP, so people don't think I'm talking about Beer Pong, and Britain will act like a bunch of 3rd grade sissies and play the 'why are you blaming me?' game. Then maybe they'll get over feeling sorry for themselves, and actually feel bad for all of the people on the Gulf coast, and someone will actually do something to help somebody instead of complaining."
"Makes my job a lot easier."

reply to post by mr-lizard


Uh Oh, I misquoted my son - he knows that.

And I think people who deny the facts are really annoying.

Not you - just had to pad out my post.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by stumason

 

You are a proud Englishman, and you don't know that England is playing the US?

Proud or what?
And, btw, I don't appreciate being "corrected" by you when you are in the wrong.

No you said the UK are playing US... Stu corrected you my friend.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by stumason

 

You are a proud Englishman, and you don't know that England is playing the US?

Proud or what?
And, btw, I don't appreciate being "corrected" by you when you are in the wrong.

I know ENGLAND are playing, but the UK isn't.

I am not wrong in the slightest, quite the opposite in fact. I and Lizard have pointed out the error to you, namely that the UK is NOT England and England is NOT the UK.

As I said, count yourself lucky an Englishman spotted your mistake, not a Scot.

reply to post by stumason


Oh for freak's sake.

I was wrong - mea culpa mea culpa mea culpa.

No wonder we ran away from the UK and settled in NZ.

reply to post by catwhoknows


It wouldn't have been a big deal if you just accepted mine and Lizards response initially instead of arguing...

It's like calling NZ a part of Oz. It isn't but you'd be pretty enthusiastic about making sure people knew it, wouldn't you? It's actually quite direspectful to be honest, to Scottish and Welsh as well as the English.

reply to post by stumason


It is disrespectful to no-one.

It is about my ignorance about soccer.


And I am so sorry to you.

Quote removed as your post is just above

I completely understand what you are saying... and will have to have an in-depth chat with my cousins in the US to understand how what I said could be miss-read..

OK, so my expectation is that *if* I am being told to do something wrong/dangerous/risky by suits it is my professional responsibility to say "no", come up with other ideas, find other solutions.

I have done this numerous times cos those suits never understand the real issues and only want the quickest cheapest way (IMHO they are dangerous SOBs really). The argument is that they employ me not just as an employee/contractor but as a "professional" to guide them.

So the line that BP said "this is how it is gonna be" does not wash with me unless the approach in the US is somewhat different, which is why I want to have a long chat with my cousins in the US, as that might explain why I've been butting heads with US corporate board executives for the last 5 years.

I hope this explains where I am coming from... Tho given the few billions in pressure I've been under I can understand the pressure they faced must have been immense given the tens if not hundreds of billions at stake.

[edit on 12/6/10 by thoughtsfull]

True England is the one playing but during the world cup at least they will have the whole UK supporting them I'd love one day to see Northern Ireland qualify will probably not happen though although I think they did make a good attempt at trying to get there this time even beating England in a game(couldn't resist).

Regarding the main topic though it was only a few months before this disaster I read something about Obama opening up part of the Gulf of Mexico for drilling.

I wonder if this is the reason he's trying so hard to blame the British.

reply to post by defcon5


It is worth noting in your "BP ordered the unsafe practice" post of yours that the article also points out blatant disregard of safety by Transocean (the rig operator) as well.

I'd also be interested to find out who this unnamed BP executive is that ordered the change in the drilling practice. Was he British? American? Mexican?

Also, I side with Thoughtsfull about butting heads with "suits". We have to do that all the time in our line of work, it's always management against the engineers. They think they know best as they have MBA's and we think we know best because we do the job and know what can and can't be done. Needless to say, it's always about the bottom line and corners will be cut if the suits feel like they can force the issue.

Quite often, we relent and allow themselves enough rope to hang with, then have a nice smug meeting aftwerwards where we say "told you so".

Wherever possible, we always try to ignore dictats from upon high and carry on the way we know works, while maintaining the charade that the managements grandiose plan is in motion, when it isn't really.

reply to post by stumason


I'd like to understand the difference between the pressures placed on professionals in the US and UK as that might indicate that we (UK and US) are coming at the problem from different angles.

I, as a professional, am responsible for the advice I give, as much as I am responsible if I allow the suits to brow beat me into submission when I know it's wrong..

I have to admit those MBA's drive me nuts... know it all's that know nothing of the real world and how things really work (dangerous SOBs)

[edit on 12/6/10 by thoughtsfull]

reply to post by thoughtsfull


We deal with some US based telco's and, from my experience, they tend to very adherant of process and do not like to waver. They always seem very concious of what their management think or have told them to do and not what their "gut" tells them to do.

This can cause problems when trying to prove a fault as they are not very flexible and are less prone to taking a punt, whereas here in the UK, despite our loggerheads with the suits, we tend to be somewhat trusted and can waver from the beaten path if the situation demands it.