The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

Originally posted by ldyserenity
As if Men can't do this on their own? They never had agood image to begin with. Even though their "Religions" and every damn thing under the sun calls women the evil, I think we all know where the true evil comes from...MEN!!!

It's attitudes like this that are the problem, you may have been joking here but if men make similar jokes about women they are often dragged across the coals. Why not try being part of the solution and not the problem?

Edrick

I think you're confusing what some people are saying. Some of us are saying men and women should have equal legal and societal rights. That means the right to vote, the right to equal pay for equal work and that kind of thing. While some women will claim that women and men are equal in all respects there are more level headed women (like BH here) who realise that men and women have specific differences which can be positive and negative.

Both sexes have their advantages and disadvantages, whether it be physical or intellectual. Would you disagree that women are vastly superior to men when it comes to language? Would you disagree that women, generally speaking are better at multi tasking?

I'm sure you wouldn't disagree that men, generally speaking are better at pure applied logic problems.

Your ideas seem to be that women should be in the home, but if that were done you would los a ton of language teachers and translators for a start and the men that would have to take over would be inferior because of simple neurological differences between men and women.

reply to post by Edrick


www.americanrevolution.org...

just wondering here....
does 2+3=7-2??

technically, they are different, aren't they???

and yet....
they are still equal!!!

when my kids were young my husband would rather work work two jobs than be stuck at home watching the kids while I worked some....so that should give you a clue at to my answer on two of your points....
experience has taught me, at least some men would probably rather be off fighting a war, than home tending the kids while mom was off doing that!! and well, yes, sometimes, women might want to work and find it just impossible without hubby's approval, so, well, hubby can deny her the right to work! and well, need I bring up religions, because there's a pretty big denomination located in the south that will tell ya straight out...if hubby doesn't want wifey working, then wifey shouldn't be working!!!
as far as weather or not hubby can rape his wife, and her body being his....
ummm....tell ya what, when hubby can feel the pain of those stitches tearing lose when he decides that his sex is more important than the welfare of his wife who just gave birth to his baby three weeks ago....
ummm...then, and only then will it be HIS BODY!!

again....personal experience!!!




[edit on 11-6-2010 by dawnstar]

I took women's studies for 2 years in university to fill an empty arts elective slot, it was interesting to some extent but in the end what I took away from it was that a very small number of women use the guise of feminism to rationalize their own personal shortcomings and failures in life.

It was hard to take an "oppressed" female seriously when she was sitting on a tenured professorship, at a major university, commanding the unquestioned respect of her peers and students who paid money just to listen to her speak.

She'd tell us stories about how back in the 60's and 70's she was arrested for protesting many times and all that, but it seems to me that was before she became successful in life. Now that she's doing well she doesn't do any of that anymore which tells me it was more about how she saw her own situation at the time, rather than the concept of feminism.

If you suck at life and you're a white man, it's like it's OK to point that out, they just suck. But if they're a woman and you point it out, it's sexist, and if they're a minority, it's racist. Some people just need to suck less and stop hiding behind labels and phony causes.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

It's called Paternity Leave. And yes. They do. Look it up.

Ok, you got me there....

en.wikipedia.org...

It's different for every country, and although it is not equal across the board, paternal leave DOES exist.

Now, here is my question for you:

Women need maternal leave to recuperate from giving birth.

I would assume that Paternal leave is available to give the man time to spend with the family, or such.

So, while the Women's "Maternal" leave is medically recuperative...

Is the Man's "Paternal" leave ALSO medically recuperative?

Or is it based on a different standard (purpose for existence)

(This would make the law UNEQUAL in application, since it is applied for different reasons for men and women)

I realize that I am just splitting hairs here.... but in my original statement, I was attempting to refute the equal application of Laws on two totally types of people, with two totally different needs.

Hence, my original ridicule of Paternal Leave:

Edrick
Do men get maternity leave like women do?

Or would you say that is ridiculous, considering that men and women are not EQUAL in these circumstances? (Given that women have a child inside them, and men don't)

But yeah... Touche!

I don't really know the answer to these questions and I'm not at all sure the reason for asking them. Sorry. If you really want the answers, I suggest you do some research.

My point is that Men and women are NOT EQUAL... they are different...

Their NEEDS are different, their ABILITIES are different, etc, etc, etc...

Having society treat them the same is a contradiction of common sense, SINCE THEY ARE NOT THE SAME, DO NOT BEHAVE THE SAME, AND ARE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER AT DIFFERENT THINGS


That is my point.

I mean that they are equal in value

No, they are not equal in value.....


Tell me, HOW MUCH ARE YOU WORTH, in your arbitrary scale of "Value Units"

Are you worth 12?

Or perhaps 45?

What are you measuring EXACTLY?

OR are you saying that men and women are equal in a more "Emotionally perceived Way" (I.E. White lies to little children about santa-claus)

equal under the law

No, they are NOT equal under the law....


Child Custody Cases.

Child Support Enforcement.

Alimony.

Do I need to continue?

equally intelligent, etc.

No, men and women are NOT equally intelligent.


The AVERAGES of intelligence are the same... I grant you that....


Here... let me do a little math puzzle with you to explain what I mean.


You know how to derive a mathematical Average, right?


Add up all the numbers, and divide by the amount of numbers you are adding...


Group A = 100, 102, 99, 101, 100, 98, 100.

Group B = 50, 100, 80, 170, 120, 150, 100.


Now, the Average of Group A is 100

And the Average of Group B is ALSO 100


But which group has the highest numbers?

And which group has the lowest numbers?


What I have just described is the difference in Intelligence Distribution of Men and Women.


Women's Intelligence tends to be more average.

Men's intelligence tends to be more Distributed.


Therefore... The greatest amount of the smartest people on the planet, are going to be men, Not Women.

Conversely... The greatest amount of the Dumbest people on the planet, are going to be men, not women.


Now, it APPEARS that they are equal, but they are not...

Do you see my point?


Since men are capable of greater variance from the average level of intelligence, they are also CAPABLE of the greatest level of INPUT into society.

Unless you think that morons and dullards can discover quantum theory, rocket science, electricity, etc, etc, etc...

It seems to be that the CURRENT POPULAR BELIEF, is that 2 people with an IQ of 50 each, are the SAME as ONE PERSON with an IQ of One Hundred.

And this is not the case, I assure you.

Of course, generally, men are bigger and women can reproduce

You see... this is one of my pet peeves... claiming that women can reproduce, but men cannot.

Do you not see what is wrong with your statement?

Or am I going to have to isolate a virgin woman in solitary confinement until she "SPONTANEOUSLY SELF CONCEIVES", as you seem to think women are capable of.

Last time I checked, It takes TWO to tango.

their genitals are different and generally, they have different physical and mental abilities and preferences.

So, they are NOT Equal?

So, in the areas that define their gender, they are different, but they are also equal, not the same.

EQUALITY DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!


Why do you think our frontline soldiers are mostly men?

IT IS BECAUSE WOMEN ARE INFERIOR IN COMBAT SITUATIONS.

Therefore, that ONE STATEMENT ALONE proves that men and women are not equal.

You are using the term "Equality" as a blanket statement, and are using it more as an EMOTIONAL BUZZWORD, as opposed to actually understanding its definition.

If you want to cite specific examples of Male and Female Equality, then by all means... do so.

But to make such a broad Generalization on the nature of "Worth" and "Value" is quite childish.

THERE IS NO SANTA CLAUS!



-Edrick

[edit on 11-6-2010 by Edrick]

Originally posted by Edrick
Now, here is my question for you:
....
Is the Man's "Paternal" leave ALSO medically recuperative?

Of course not. Your point?

I realize that I am just splitting hairs here....

No kidding.

But women don't get leave for vasectomies, either. Point is, if a man OR a woman needs medical leave for whatever reason, they get it.

My point is that Men and women are NOT EQUAL... they are different...

As dawnstar said, does 2+3=7-2? Yes. Technically, these equations are different, but they ARE equal. See the equal sign?

No, men and women are NOT equally intelligent.

The AVERAGES of intelligence are the same... I grant you that....

Do you see my point?

Yes. Your point seems to be to split hairs and play semantic games.

So, they are NOT Equal?

I told you what I meant by equal. If you disagree, fine, but I'm not going to play.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

I think you're confusing what some people are saying.

It is possible that you are correct.

Some of us are saying men and women should have equal legal and societal rights. That means the right to vote, the right to equal pay for equal work and that kind of thing.

Yes, that's great... but that is not what we have, is it?

Women complain that they are not getting the same pay as men for the same work.... but they never cite evidence..

I on the other hand, have DETAILED evidence that women are favored by the STATE in child custody cases.

But the Feminists WILL NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THAT INEQUALITY.


They want to *KEEP* the inequalities that BENEFIT THEM, and they want to DESTROY the inequalities that DO NOT BENEFIT THEM.

Do you see my point?

While some women will claim that women and men are equal in all respects

Which is a stupid argument, lacking intellect.

there are more level headed women (like BH here) who realise that men and women have specific differences which can be positive and negative.

Yeah... that Is what *I* am saying.... I'm just not sugar coating the truth, is why they are all mad at me.

Both sexes have their advantages and disadvantages, whether it be physical or intellectual.

Your statement is scientifically accurate, and backed up by FACTUAL DATA.

Comment ACCEPTED.

Would you disagree that women are vastly superior to men when it comes to language? Would you disagree that women, generally speaking are better at multi tasking?

I'm sure you wouldn't disagree that men, generally speaking are better at pure applied logic problems.

From the Data that I have seen, what you state appears to be the case... so until proven otherwise, I shall accept this claim. as it is Scientifically Accurate.

Your ideas seem to be that women should be in the home

Yes.... Would you argue that women are *Not* the BEST SUITED for the task of raising children?

And that men are *Not* the best suited for the task of laboring for the money and resources to support that Family? Or defending that family from potential threats?

Aces in their places, people... Aces in their places.


Look at ANY mammal species on the planet.....

Do the Males and Females have the same tasks?

Or is their a DIVISION OF LABOR regarding the specific strengths and weaknesses of each gender?


The feminist movement is trying to "Shame" the differences between the sexes away, and wish and legislate them into non existence.

It is an ATTACK on the very fundamental NATURE of WHAT we are, as a SPECIES.

Savvy?

but if that were done you would los a ton of language teachers

Are you saying that women who stay home and raise their children would *NOT* teach those children language?

IT seems to me that we wouldn't LOSE them.... we would just put them where they are *NEEDED* most.

-Edrick

reply to post by dawnstar

just wondering here....
does 2+3=7-2??

Yes it does.... and now, my COUNTER QUESTION!

Does 3+2 = 2-7?

-Edrick (Equal? No)

most men do not get custody of children because they have more earning potential!!!
and well......the kids will drive down the earning potential of the one that is given custody!!

considering that it is the taxpayer that is chipping in the remainder of what is needed to raise those kids in many cases, well, I can kind of see the courts position!
why give the kids to the one earning the most money and have the other one out working for near minimum wage??? all that will do is increase the need for taxpayer money.
you keep griping about this, but well......
you seem to be working so hard to keep the old way of doing things alive and well...ensuring that things will never, ever, change in the future!
so, well.....sorry, I don't have much sympathy about how the family courts are operated....although I do see the same bias, plus much more really going on...


and I will tell ya know, I have experienced the inequality in wagesand opportunities myself in the workforce!!! so, well I don't need to prove nothing to myself...
if you want proof, go look for it!

I am not into nit picking tonight by the way...


[edit on 11-6-2010 by dawnstar]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Of course not. Your point?

Issuing Medical Leave for someone who has nothing medically wrong with them is not EQUAL to issuing medical leave to a person who is pregnant.

Hence, Not Equal.

But women don't get leave for vasectomies, either....

But Men Get Leave for time near the birth of a child, which they themselves are incapable of "suffering from".

how is that Equal?

Don't You roll your eyes at me.

You going to Respond to what I said?

Or are you just going to ignore its significance?



Wow.... on second look, your post isn't really a Response or Reply at all, is it?



IT is an Attack.


Here I am, trying to have a Logical Discussion, and you are just playing little Games.


That's Sad.



I was quite enjoying the Debate actually....

So, if you want to *ACTUALLY* respond... as opposed to playing to the crowd for brownie points...

then by all means.

-Edrick

Look at ANY mammal species on the planet.....

Do the Males and Females have the same tasks?

Or is their a DIVISION OF LABOR regarding the specific strengths and weaknesses of each gender?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

umm....ya......
let's look at momma bear.....
gee, if papa bear starts messing with the cubs, does momma bear stand obediently aside and allow him to??? or does she stand between them and well, give him a good fight??

if you go and mess with those little cubs....is momma bear gonna wait around till papa bear comes along to tear you to shreds??
or is she gonna tear you apart herself???

if the baby birds are hungry, does mamma go out and hunt worms for the little ones, or is she waiting around for daddy to come along with some??

the famale human is the only one that has been conditioned to act unnaturally...to allow dad to beat the crap out of the kids, to be obedient, even if she knows that doing so is technically wrong. to be passive!!

reply to post by Edrick


No one forced men into the military either. As for the draft, that was also started by men. Men drafting men. Take it up with them.

reply to post by nixie_nox

No one forced men into the military either.

*VIETNAM*

As for the draft, that was also started by men.

Men against Men?


I thought that Men in power only oppressed Women?


Did ALL men get to VOTE on the Draft?

Or were men DENIED the Vote on whether they should be forcibly taken from their country, a gun shoved in their hand, and TOLD TO KILL PEOPLE FOR THE PROFIT OF OTHERS?

Men drafting men. Take it up with them.

*I AM*



I don't know if you realize this or not... but back when women were FORCED into whatever little NICHE that society TOLD THEM TO BE IN.......


*THAT* WAS WHEN YOU WERE EQUAL TO MEN.

Now, you just have *MORE* Rights.


-Edrick

[edit on 11-6-2010 by Edrick]

Originally posted by Edrick
Women complain that they are not getting the same pay as men for the same work.... but they never cite evidence..

www.iwpr.org...

But the Feminists WILL NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THAT INEQUALITY.

Yes, they will! I acknowledge it! It's wrong!

They want to *KEEP* the inequalities that BENEFIT THEM, and they want to DESTROY the inequalities that DO NOT BENEFIT THEM.

If they feel that way, they are not true feminists.

Yes.... Would you argue that women are *Not* the BEST SUITED for the task of raising children?

There are MANY exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking, women are better suited for it. That doesn't mean they have to do it or "should" do it. That's up to each individual. It's not necessary for the better-suited person to do a particular job. If BOTH people CAN do the job, and do a good job, the fact that one might be a little better at it is irrelevant.

Aces in their places, people... Aces in their places.

You're generalizing. And that's OK. But not everyone fits your generalization and it's not up to you to decide who should or shouldn't raise the kids and work outside the home. By definition, "aces are in their places". Don't worry about it.

Or is their a DIVISION OF LABOR regarding the specific strengths and weaknesses of each gender?

No one is arguing against division of labor. But see previous paragraph.

The feminist movement is trying to "Shame" the differences between the sexes away, and wish and legislate them into non existence.

You have some... "interesting" ideas about feminism.

I remember vietnam.....
contrary to what some appear to want you to believe, there were alot of women working......then coming home and working some more. they had the right to vote, but well, men were still pretty much in control of alot of the households....
and well....there weren't too many of those women in positions of power that I can think of....
so, well.....
I would suggest this to you.....
during vietnam, women did not have enough power but to just go along with the men's crazy wars and resign themselves to the idea that their sons were being sent far away possibly to their deaths!!!

and well....maybe, just maybe....their rise to a more powerful position, maybe, just maybe had something to do with the draft no longer being acceptable???

oh, and I know of a few men that were awarded custody of their kids....the courts found them more suitable to raise the kids!! guess what...
they got totally screwed!!! the mothers constantly got out of paying child support, or made so little that their contribution wasn't enough to matter. the men made a little too much to be able to qualify for help with child care but well, once that cost was taken from their check.....they really didn't have enough to meet their other needs.

but, then, why should I have any sympathy about this??? after all, the one that is griping about it, in the next sentence will proclaim to the world....
women are the best suited for the task!!!



that and the fact that the military figured out that placing a bunch of men in a place they didn't want to be in that was filled with all kinds of neat mind altering drugs, just wasn't the best idea in the world???

[edit on 11-6-2010 by dawnstar]

Originally posted by Edrick
Issuing Medical Leave for someone who has nothing medically wrong with them is not EQUAL to issuing medical leave to a person who is pregnant.

Paternity leave is NOT medical.

Don't You roll your eyes at me.

Wow.... on second look, your post isn't really a Response or Reply at all, is it?

IT is an Attack.

What? Are you kidding me? Chill out.

I don't know if you realize this or not... but back when women were FORCED into whatever little NICHE that society TOLD THEM TO BE IN.......


*THAT* WAS WHEN YOU WERE EQUAL TO MEN.

Now, you just have *MORE* Rights.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

ummm excuse me???

but you are wrong!!!!
trading your self determination for your daily bread, taking on your appointed "submissive role",
well.....
THAT IS SLAVERY, NOT EQUALITY!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Edrick
Women complain that they are not getting the same pay as men for the same work.... but they never cite evidence..

www.iwpr.org...

Excellent.... Excellent....

Would you be so kind as to point out which part of that study CLEARLY STATES that women make less than men because of discrimination.

As opposed to work habits and ethics.

Yes, they will! I acknowledge it! It's wrong!

Thank you very much.


I do appreciate that, by the way.


Women have more reproductive rights than men.... but they focus on the "Pay Gap", and usually they attempt to justify this double standard when it benefits women, as opposed to acknowledging the inequality as you just did.

So, thank you.

There are MANY exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking, women are better suited for it. That doesn't mean they have to do it or "should" do it.

Yeah... but how many women in the workforce would rather raise a family, but cant?

And are forced into the workforce due to economics?

That's up to each individual.

Agreed...

Would you say that the majority of women would rather work, instead of raising their own children?

Because that is what the majority of them are doing.

But not everyone fits your generalization and it's not up to you to decide who should or shouldn't raise the kids and work outside the home.

But you know WHO *IS* making those decisions?


Family Court systems that profit off of child support payments and court costs.

By definition, "aces are in their places". Don't worry about it.

Then why are you on a conspiracy site?

No one is arguing against division of labor.

Then we should implement quotas for making sure that all front-line combat positions are equally represented by women.

As well as All of the hazardous jobs, like oil rig operator, and coal miner... those jobs should be 50% Women as well.

You know... to be equal and all.

You have some... "interesting" ideas about feminism.

I could say the same thing about the feminists.

-Edrick

[edit on 11-6-2010 by Edrick]

reply to post by dawnstar

trading your self determination for your daily bread, taking on your appointed "submissive role",
well.....
THAT IS SLAVERY, NOT EQUALITY!

I agree... and I often say that to myself when men are required to fight and die for the profits of the elite, and women are not.

-Edrick

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Paternity leave is NOT medical.

You do realize that, that was my point.... right?

in fact, allow me to quote what I said... which is EXACTLY what you quoted.

Edrick Said:
Issuing Medical Leave for someone who has nothing medically wrong with them is not EQUAL to issuing medical leave to a person who is pregnant.

-Edrick

reply to post by Edrick

in the job I had before this one, I was filling in for a position that was left vacant when the person who was doing it was well...discovered to be illegal alien. So, I was qualified to do the job, and I was doing it.....
I was also qualified to do much more, could run just about every machine in the place, was their number one choice as laminator, knew much of the shipping proceedure, much of the fininshing work, hey, I would even occasionally catch the supervisor making mistakes and correct him....
they didn't want me running that machine!!! I was needed doing all the other stuff, so they hired someone else....someone with no printing experience, someone who had to be trained from step one...oh, need I mention, someone who was a man....
gee, guess what, that guy started off making $2 more dollars an hour!!!

another example, this one being in the line of opportunities in the workplace, and well...it's dated in the early 80's....
I had just graduated from college, associates degree, and well, was looking for a job during a time when there was alot of people looking for work....
searched high and low, and well.....all I could find was those same crappy jobs I had before I went to college....fast food, waitress, that kind of crap that well, to be honest....I stunk at! my husband finallly told me what the problem was....
we were in texas at the time, by the way...
well, texas was very conservative, probably still is.
and as far as the employers were concerned, I was a women, I had a husband to take care of me, or if I didn't I should have one....
now those men out there, on the other hand, well...they had a family to take care of!!! it didn't matter how qualified I was, if there was a man who wanted that job, he would get it before I did!
even in the job I have now, there are guys in the shop who are constantly asking me questions as to how to do something, or what ink is what color ect.....with less experience, less ability, who are making more money than me! ya, I could go through the hassle, and contact the labor board, but well....just what is that gonna get me, except an angry boss looking for the first opportunity to fire me!

this is all the evidence I need....


oh, and no one is forced into the service at the present time, at least not in most of the western world.....




[edit on 11-6-2010 by dawnstar]